* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. [Wetlands Board on February 27, 2025.] [00:00:04] OKAY, GOOD MORNING. IT'S 10 O'CLOCK. I CALL THE MEETING TO ORDER. WELCOME TO THE FEBRUARY, 2025 MEETING OF THE MACK COUNTY WETLANDS BOARD. WHILE GOING THROUGH INTRODUCTORY REMARKS, PLEASE TAKE TIME TO SILENCE OR TURN OFF YOUR CELL PHONES. THE WETLANDS BOARD CONSISTS OF FIVE MEMBERS. APPROVAL OF PERMITS REQUIRES A MAJORITY VOTE OF THE BOARD OR THREE YAY VOTES. TODAY WE HAVE ALL FIVE MEMBERS PRESENT. WE HAVE A QUORUM, UH, IF I MAY, FROM MY RIGHT TO MY LEFT, MR. GICK VICE CHAIR, MR. WARD. MR. TAYLOR, MR. BADGER. AND I'M T LEE BIRD. IF I MIGHT INTRODUCE OUR STAFF AND OFFICIALS PRESENT. UH, WE HAVE SOME NEW STAFF MEMBERS, SO JUST BEAR WITH ME PLEASE. UH, WE HAVE MS. JULIE WARD, WHO IS, UH, IN FLOYD, EXCUSE ME. UH, ENVIRONMENTAL PERMIT SPECIALIST, MS. HARMON GINGER HARMON, ADMINISTRATIVE ASSISTANT. UH, MR. PAUL WATSON, DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF CODED ADMINISTRATIVE DIVISION, MR. LEE PAMED. THANKS FOR COMING. UM, DEPUTY COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR AND MS. CLAIRE GORMAN, UH, VIRGINIA MARINE RESOURCES COMMISSION, VMRC. THE BOARD IS AWARE AND COMPLIES AS CLOSELY AS POSSIBLE TO THE OBJECTIVES OF THE VIRGINIA MARINE RESOURCES COMMISSION, UH, UH, WETLANDS POLICY OF NO NET LOST. ALL APPROVED PERMITS ARE GRANTED FOR A TWO YEAR PERIOD FROM THE DATE OF THIS HEARING, UNLESS SPECIFICALLY NOTED ALL PERSONS SPEAKING BEFORE THIS BOARD WILL BE SWORN IN. WE HAVE, UM, FIRST OF ALL, I ASSUME THAT, UH, EVERYONE'S HAD TIME TO LOOK OVER TODAY'S AGENDA. ANY QUESTIONS, COMMENTS? I ASK FOR A MOTION TO ACCEPT THE AGENDA. SO, MR. CHAIRMAN, THANK YOU, SIR. UH, I ASK FOR A SECOND. THIS IS TIM GICK AND I'LL SECOND THE MOTION. THANK YOU. VOTE. AYE. AYE. WE'RE SET. THE NEXT UH, WOULD BE, UH, MINUTES IS EVERYONE. WE HAD A COUPLE OF CHANGES TO THE MINUTES, SO I ASSUME EVERYONE HAS HAD A CHANCE TO LOOK OVER LAST MONTH'S, MINUTES. IF SO, ANY QUESTIONS, COMMENTS? UH, MAY I ASK FOR A MOTION TO ACCEPT? UH, THIS IS TIM GICK. I MAKE THE MOTION TO ACCEPT THE MINUTES FROM THE JANUARY. WE THANK YOU. AND A SECOND. SECOND. HANK BADGER. THANK YOU. VOTE PLEASE. UH, RE IN THE BOOK. ALRIGHT. WITH NO OLD BUSINESS ON THE AGENDA, WE WILL MOVE ALONG TO NEW BUSINESS. NEW BUSINESS. 5.01 JPA IS 2 0 2 4 DASH 28 34. IT'S FREEDOM MORTGAGE CORPORATION. UH, 2 0 2 7 0 CANVAS BACK LANE. THAT'S IN SCHOONER BAY. IT'S CONSTRUCTION OF A 243 FOOT BULKHEAD WITH RETURNS. MR. WATSON, YOU HAVE TO BE SWORN IN. DO YOU AFFIRM OR SWEAR OR YOU'LL TELL THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH, AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH AND ALL MATTERS BEFORE THIS BOARD? I DO. THANK YOU. WOULD YOU GIVE A SYNOPSIS, PLEASE? YES, SIR. UH, THIS IS MR. MUDD'S PROJECT, UH, FOR FREEDOM MORTGAGE CORPORATION. THEY OWN THE PARCEL. IT'S IN, UH, SCHOONER BAY ON CANVASBACK LANE. UH, ESSENTIALLY JUST REPLACING THE EXISTING FAILED BULKHEAD WITH A NEW BULKHEAD BEHIND IT, AND THEN REMOVING THE OLD BULKHEAD WITH ACCESS FROM, UH, THE LAND AND WATER. UH, I WILL SAY ON THE BOTTOM LINE, THE IN LOFI, UH, THAT THERE IS A SLIGHT CHANGE FROM THE STAFF REPORT. ON THE STAFF REPORT. I USE THE 0.7 REDUCTION ON BOTH VEGETATED AND NON VEGETATED WETLANDS, UH, MISTAKENLY. SO I'VE CORRECTED THAT HERE. SO THIS IS A DIFFERENT IN LIEU FEE, JUST EVERYBODY KNOWS. SO YOU CORRECTED THE 0.7. I DID. SO I NOW IT IS JUST BEING APPLIED TO THE NON VEGETATED WETLANDS. UNDERSTAND. SO HERE IS THE AERIAL THAT MR. MUDD PROVIDED. IT'S ON THE CORNER OF, OF ESSENTIALLY TWO WHAT APPEARED TO BE MANMADE CANALS IN SCHOONER BAY. AND HERE ARE HIS, UH, DRAWINGS OF WHAT HE IS INTENDING TO DO. UH, THIS IS JUST BASICALLY SHOWING MEAN LOW AND MEAN HIGH BEING ON THE FACE OF THE BULKHEAD. [00:05:01] AND THIS IS SHOWING THE NEW BULKHEAD IN RED AS OPPOSED TO THE OLD BULKHEAD IN BLACK WITH THE TIEBACKS. AND ALSO, UH, GENERAL REPRESENTATION OF WHERE THE VEGETATED AND NON VEGETATIVE WETLANDS ARE, WHICH ARE ESSENTIALLY JUST, UH, A PLACE WHERE THE OLD BULKHEAD HAS FAILED AND THE VEGETATED AND NON VEGETATIVE WETLANDS HAVE BEEN CREATED BEHIND THE OLD BULKHEAD HERE. JUST FURTHER DRAWINGS OF, OF ACTUALLY HOW IT'S GOING TO BE CONSTRUCTED. OKAY. AND THE, THE DETAIL FOR THE DEAD MOON AND FURTHER INDICATION OF WHERE MEAN HIGH AND MEAN LOW FALL ON THE FACE OF THE BULKHEAD. AND SOME MORE, UH, SPECIFICATIONS FOR THE BUILDING OF THE BULKHEAD. HERE ARE SOME HISTORICAL AERIALS OF, THIS IS FROM 2002, SHOWING THE BULKHEAD IN PRETTY GOOD SHAPE AGAIN IN 2017. IT'S LOOKS LIKE IT'S IN DECENT SHAPE. AND 2021, YOU CAN SEE WHERE IT'S STARTING TO FAIL. UH, JUST OFF THE CORNER, JUST ABOVE THE CORNER THERE, YOU CAN SEE THE WATER, UH, OR WETLANDS BEHIND THE BULKHEAD. PROBABLY WATER TOO. AND THIS IS ACTUALLY A VERY RECENT PICTURE FROM GOOGLE MAPS SHOWING AN EVEN LARGER FAILURE WITH, UH, WETLANDS OR WATER BEHIND THE EXISTING BULKHEAD. NOT A BIG LAST WEEK TOO. 40 FOOT. HOLD UP A MINUTE TOO, PLEASE. AND HERE THE PICTURES I TOOK ON SITE HERE IS OBVIOUSLY THE CORNER LOOKING OUT OUTWARDS TOWARDS THE BAY. UH, YOU CAN SEE IT'S SOMEWHAT OF A FAILURE THERE WITH THE LAND BEING, UH, EATEN AWAY FROM PROBABLY UNDERNEATH THE BULK, THE EXISTING BULKHEAD. CORRECT. HERE'S WHERE THE ACTUAL FAILURE IS. ANOTHER CLOSEUP OF THE FAILURE AND THEN THE, UH, REST OF THE BULKHEAD DOWN THE PROPERTY LINE. OKAY? AND, UH, WOULD TAKE ANY QUESTIONS, ANY QUESTIONS? UH, WHEN I WAS THERE, I THINK THE WEST SIDE WAS A BIG BOW GOING OUT. NOW IS THE NEW BULKHEAD GOING TO, THAT'S WHY I HAD TO PUT BEHIND THE NEW, THE NEW OLDEST TWO BULKHEADS THERE. NOW JOHN, YOU HAVE TO BE SWORN. UM, I'LL YIELD MR. MUD IF YOU DON'T HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, ME, SO HE CAN GET UP. WHAT WE'RE GONNA DO IS, UH, HAVE YOU SIT DOWN MR. WATSON, IF YOU DON'T MIND. AND WE'RE GONNA, IT'S, IT'S QUITE ALL RIGHT. UH, WE'LL BE BACK TO YOU, SIR, IF YOU DON'T MIND. UM, THIS JOB'S BEING DONE BY, UH, JONATHAN MUD OF MUD'S MARINE CONSTRUCTION. YOU'LL BE HANDLING THE JOB, SIR. I'M GONNA HAVE TO SWEAR YOU DO. YOU FIRMLY SWEAR YOU TELL THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH ABSOLUTELY. IN ALL MATTERS BEFORE THIS BOARD. WE'RE GLAD TO HEAR THAT. UH, WHY DON'T YOU TELL US WHAT'S GOING ON? IT'S BEEN A FALON. UH, I DON'T KNOW. I DID, DID SOME, THEY DID SOME SORT OF A REVERSE BULKHEAD AND PROBABLY THE OLD ONE WAS ACTUALLY TWO WALLS THERE. NOW THERE'S AN ORIGINAL WOODEN WALL, AND THEN THEY PUT A VINYL WALL IN FRONT OF IT WITH NO FACE PILES. NO, I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT IS REALLY, HONESTLY. UH, IT LE IT'S LEANED OUT SO BAD. THERE'S NOWHERE TO GO. TWO FOOT IN FRONT OF IT. IF I WAS TO PUT A WALL IN FRONT OF THE SECOND WALL, I'D BE SIX FOOT IN FRONT OF IT TO GET IN THERE TO WORK. SO NO GOOD AFTER SPEAKING WITH BETH AND SPEAKING OVER AND IT'S GONNA BE A LOT MORE WORK. BUT I'M GONNA PUT A NEW WALL BETWEEN THE NEW WALL AND THE OLD WALL AND THEN REMOVE THE OLD WALL OUT IN FRONT AFTER I GET THE NEW WALL IN. IT'S GONNA BE A PAIN IN THE, BUT THAT'S THE ONLY WAY YOU'RE GONNA BE ABLE TO DO IT. YOU OBVIOUSLY KNOW YOU CAN'T GO SIX FEET. I EXACTLY. YEAH. I'M ALLOWED TO POINT. WELL TAKEN. THANK YOU. UH, SO THAT'S ALL WE'RE PROPOSING. OKAY. THANK YOU. UH, IF YOU DON'T MIND, UH, HAVING A SEAT. SURE. WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK TO YOU. SURE. UH, IS THERE ANYONE ELSE THAT HAS ANYTHING TO SAY SPECIFICALLY ABOUT THIS JOB? IF NOT, UH, I'M GONNA CLOSE THE FLOOR, OPEN IT TO PUBLIC COMMENT, NO PUBLIC COMMENT. CLOSE THE FLOOR. I'M GONNA OPEN IT TO THE BOARD PLEASE WITH QUESTIONS WHERE IT'S BENT WAY OUT. THE NEW BULKHEAD IS GOING TO COME WAY IN. MY, MY BULKHEAD IS GONNA BE STRAIGHT AS AN ARROW AND THE OLD STUFF OUT IN FRONT IT. WE GOTTA HEAR YOU. SORRY. [00:10:01] MY OLD BULKHEAD IS GONNA BE STRAIGHT AS AN ARROW AND THE STUFF OUT IN FRONT OF IT IS GONNA BE ALL PULLED OUT. SO ALL THAT YOU SEE THERE NOW IS ALL GONNA BE PULLED OUT ONCE MY NEW WALL IS BUILT BEHIND IT. ALRIGHT, ANY MORE QUESTIONS? YES SIR. I JUST A COUPLE DETAILED QUESTIONS. MR. MUD. YEAH. MR. MUD, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. UH, JUST CURIOUS, A COUPLE THINGS. UH, YOU SAID YOU'RE GONNA BUILD THE BULKHEAD SLIGHTLY HIGHER. I THINK YOU SAID A FOOT. YEP. IS THAT SORT OF EQUAL ON THE EAST, UH, EAST SIDE? CORRECT. I JUST, SO ITS JUST ABOUT EIGHT INCHES OR WHATEVER IT IS, YOU'RE GONNA MATCH IT. THEY JUST REPLACED, UH, THE, I BELIEVE IT'S ANDREW STROM, HIS WALL RIGHT AROUND THE CORNER IF YOU FOLLOW IT AROUND. RIGHT. AND HE'S A BIT HIGHER. RIGHT. SO I'M GONNA MATCH THAT HEIGHT. SEE, YOU CAN SEE RIGHT THERE IT'S ABOUT A FOOT TALLER. SO I'M GONNA CONTINUE THAT SAME HEIGHT ALL THE WAY AROUND. IT NEEDS TO BE RAISED ANYWAY. 'CAUSE EVERY HIGH TIDE, THE, THE LAWN, THE WATER'S UP ON THE YARD. SO YEAH. I'M ALWAYS GETTING CONCERNED ABOUT WHEN PEOPLE BUILD THINGS HIGHER BECAUSE THEN THE NEIGHBOR, THEN YOU CREATE A TRAP WATER TRAP. YEAH. UNDERSTAND IT'S ALL GONNA BE EQUAL. YEP. UM, FOR ME, WHEN I LOOKING AT IT, IT SEEMS LIKE THE DAMAGE IS NOT REALLY FROM INCOMING WAVES, FROM FROM WATER ON THE BACKSIDE PUSHING OUT. AM I WRONG ABOUT THAT? IT'S SHORT SHEETED, THEY DIDN'T USE LONG ENOUGH MATERIALS. OKAY. 'CAUSE IN MY, IT'S THAT SIMPLE. SO YOU, YOU DON'T THINK THEY NEED TO USE WHEAT POLES HERE TO GET ANY? NO. OKAY. YOU'RE FINE. I'VE NEVER USED THEM IN MY LIFE. EVER. YEP. BE BECAUSE THE ORIGINAL CONSTRUCTION WASN'T DEEP ENOUGH. THAT'S CORRECT. WASN'T LONG ENOUGH. IS THAT CORRECT? THAT'S RIGHT. BUT YOU'RE GONNA CHANGE ALL THAT WAS A LOT OF WATER THEM WALLS WITH THE PICTURES WE SEE. YES SIR. YOU CAN, IF YOU LOOK YOU, IT SAYS EXACTLY HOW MUCH I'M PUTTING IN THE BOTTOM. WE GOT IT. YEAH. AND JUST TO REITERATE, WHAT YOU SAID IS UNUSUAL. I'M NORMALLY USED TO PUT IN THE BULK IN KIND OR IN FRONT, BUT DUE TO THE SITUATION WHERE YOU'RE TRYING TO KEEP THE MUD AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE GOING, EXCUSE THE PUN, CAN'T TRYING TO KEEP THEM GOING INTO THE, WELL THE, THE LAW IS YOU CAN ONLY GO TWO FOOT IN FRONT AND THE THE WALL IS LAID OUT FOUR AND FIVE FOOT IN SOME SPOTS. SO IT'S IMPOSSIBLE. ALRIGHT. ALRIGHT. HOLD UP A MINUTE. ANY MORE QUESTIONS FOR MR. MUD AT THIS POINT IN TIME? ALRIGHT, ANY MORE QUESTIONS FOR MR. WATSON? I GUESS FOR MR. WATSON? I'M JUST SORT OF CURIOUS IN REGARDS TO THE REDUCTION. UH, IT WAS A 0.7 NUMBER. I'M SORT OF CURIOUS, HOW WAS THAT? WHERE DID A 0.7 COME FROM EXACTLY. THAT'S PROBABLY A NORTHAMPTON COUNTY THING WOULD BE MY GUESS. I JUST NEED TO GET CLARIFICATION ON THAT BECAUSE WHAT WE USUALLY DO HERE, WE DON'T HAVE ANY LEEWAY WITH VEGETATION VEGETATED WETLANDS, BUT WHEN IT COMES TO NON VEGETATED, WE GO THROUGH A PROCESS. I'M JUST SORT OF CURIOUS WHAT YOUR PROCESS WAS ON THAT. UM, I WAS GIVEN A WORKSHEET, UM, OKAY. UM, THAT, UH, ALLOWED FOR REDUCTIONS FOR MADAIN CANALS AND FOR, UM, NON VEGITATIVE WETLANDS BEHIND EXISTING BULKHEADS. OKAY. AND APPLIED THE 0.2 AND 0.1 ACCORDING TO THE WORKSHEET. OKAY. SO YOU USED OUR WORKSHEET AND THEN WHEN WE VOTE, WE'LL JUST MAKE THAT JUST BE PART OF THE APPROVAL PROCESS, I GUESS IF THAT, BECAUSE NORMALLY WE DO THAT ON OUR OWN. THAT WORKSHEET. I THOUGHT IT WAS BROUGHT TO MY ATTENTION SHORTLY BEFORE THE MEETING BY FLOYD. WE'LL FIX IT, CHAIRMAN, BECAUSE SO WHAT WE'LL DO, WE'LL JUST HAVE IT, SO HOW MUCH VEGETATIVE AND HOW MUCH NON VEGITATIVE AND IT'S STILL GONNA BE THE $18. RIGHT. AND AND THAT WILL BE IN THE MOTION. IT'S THAT SIMPLE. AND IT BE AND THAT'LL BE IN, IN WHOEVER'S MOTION IS THAT IS CORRECT. IT'LL BE PUT DOWN BECAUSE LIKE I SAID, THEY WANNA KNOW HOW MUCH VEGETATED, HOW MUCH NON VEGETATED. AND THAT'S GONNA BE $18 FOR S YOU'RE NOT USED TO HAVING 'EM CHARGE FOR THE NON VEGETATED. I'M SURE. SO, OR THEY DO, THEY DO CHARGE FOR NON VEGETATED AND COUNTY. SO THAT'S WHY WE UNDERSTAND. DON'T THINK WE'RE PICKING ON YOU. THAT'S WHY I WRITE NOTES. I JUST WANT, WE'LL WORK WITH YOU. WE PROMISE YOU. WE'LL PROMISE YOU. BUT IT'S GONNA BE, I JUST WANT TO DOUBLE CHECK. SO THE 10 SQUARE FEET OF VEGETATIVE WETLANDS, THAT'S 10 SQUARE FEET, PERIOD. AND THEN THE, THE 0.7 REDUCTION COMES WITH THE 90 SQUARE FEET OF NON VEGITATIVE. YOUR HONOR, FOR THE PERSON DOING THE, ACTUALLY IT'S EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE. THE 90 SQUARE FEET DOES NOT GET A REDUCTION. OH, 10 OF NON VEGITATIVE. I'M SORRY. I GOT THAT REDUCTION. MY BAD. OKAY. BUT WE'RE NOT DOING ANY REDUCTIONS. NO, WE ARE NOT. AND, UH, UH, MAYBE WE NEED TO LEARN, BUT IF YOU'LL LEAVE THAT OFF FROM THIS POINT ON IN MACK COUNTY, WE'LL LEARN. AND, AND IF WE CHOOSE TO DO IT, WE WILL AT THAT POINT, IF THAT'S ALRIGHT, SIR. AND JUST A LITTLE FURTHER EXPLANATION, UM, THIS 0.7 IS SOMETHING THAT IS, THAT IS POSSIBLE IN MACK COUNTY WITH THE BOARD'S AGREEMENT. UM, I FOUND OUT SHORTLY BEFORE THE MEETING THAT THIS IS NOT TYPICALLY DONE BY THE BOARD, BUT THAT IT IS A POSSIBILITY. UM, I'LL DO SOME FURTHER RESEARCH AS TO WHERE THAT POLICY CAME FROM AND WHERE THAT WORKSHEET CAME FROM. BUT I WAS GIVEN THE WORKSHEET A WHILE AGO, YOU KNOW, WHEN I TOOK OVER. YES, SIR. AND, UH, I HAVE HEARD OF THAT DOWN THE [00:15:01] COUNTY, BUT WE'VE NEVER EVEN, UH, BROUGHT IT UP HERE. SO FOR THE MOMENT, LET'S LEAVE IT THE WAY WE, WE DO IT. AND, UH, WE'D LIKE TO LEARN AND WE WILL GO FROM THERE WITH BOARD'S APPROVAL AT SOME POINT IN TIME, SIR. OKAY. SO THAT OBVIOUSLY WOULD MAKE THE MATH VERY SIMPLE. 1800. 1800. THA THANK YOU, SIR. ALL RIGHT, SIR. UH, ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR ANYONE? UH, ROUND OF RUM? ANYBODY GOT ANY COMMENTS? ALRIGHT, UH, WELL, YES SIR. I, I'M SORRY. NOW I'M BEING A LITTLE TENSE TODAY. EXCUSE ME. SO YOU'RE ALWAYS TENSE. YEAH, THAT'S TRUE. THAT'S WHAT SAY MY BONE DENSITIES. SO WHEN I WAS THERE, IT LOOKED LIKE TO ME IT WAS 10 SQUARE FEET OF VEGETATED WETLANDS AND 90 SQUARE FEET OF NON VEGETATED. THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT I SAW. BUT IF I'M, AM I WRONG ABOUT THAT? UH, MS. FOREMAN ACTUALLY JUST INFORMED ME THAT YOU'RE RIGHT ABOUT THAT . IT IS EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE. 10 OF VEGETATED 90. BUT IT DOESN'T MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE FOR OUR DISCUSSION BECAUSE IT'S NOT BE 18, BUT I JUST WANNA ASSURE THAT WE'RE ON THE SAME PAGE. IT, IT MAKES SOME DIFFERENCE. UH, THOUGH, THANK YOU FOR BRINGING IT UP. UH, IT MAKES DIFFERENCE ON THE RECORD. OKAY. ALRIGHT. UH, DOES EVERYONE UNDERSTAND THAT? ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? HANK YOU'RE LOOKING FUNNY. I MEAN NOPE. NOPE. I JUST LOOK FUNNY. ALRIGHT, ANY OTHER QUESTIONS, COMMENTS? ALRIGHT, UM, I'D LIKE TO CALL FOR A MOTION ON THIS PERMIT. UH, MR. CHAIR, THIS IS TIM GE I'LL TRY TO MAKE A MOTION ON THIS PERMIT. 20 24, 28 34, UH, THAT WE ACCEPT THE, UH, THE PERMIT AS GIVEN WITH THE MITIGATION FEES OF 10 SQUARE FEET OF VEGETATED WETLANDS AND FOR 90 SQUARE FEET OF NON VEGETATED WETLANDS FOR A TOTAL OF 800 $1,800 OF MITIGATION FEE. THAT'S CORRECT. ALRIGHT, ASK FOR A SECOND. I'LL SECOND IT WITH SOME COMMENT. UM, I ALWAYS HAVE JUDGE MR. BADGER. YEAH, SORRY MR. BADGER. UM, THE MITIGATION IS BEING DONE BECAUSE THERE IS NO ON ONSITE MITIGATION POSSIBLE IN THE SUBDIVISION LIKE THIS. AND, UH, AND NO OFFSITE EITHER. SO AT THIS POINT IT'S GOTTA GO TO THE IN LIEU FEE. YES, SIR. OKAY, VERY GOOD. JUST NEED TO MAKE THAT CLEAR. I UNDERSTAND THAT. UH, THAT'S IN THE RECORD. SO WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND, UH, MAY I CALL FOR A VOTE PLEASE? AYE, IT'S UNANIMOUS. UH, SIR, UH, THE PERMIT IS APPROVED FOR TWO YEARS FROM TODAY'S DATE. ALL PARTIES ARE ADVISED THAT THE FOREGONE DETERMINATION GRANTS NO AUTHORITY TO ENCROACH ON THE PROPERTY OF OTHERS. YOU UNDERSTAND THAT? YES, SIR. I'M SURE YOU DO. THANK YOU VERY MUCH, SIR. THANK YOU GENTLEMEN. HAVE A NICE DAY. YOU SIR. YOU TOO. TAKE CARE GUYS. ALRIGHT. UM, I, I GOT A CHANCE OF GETTING FIRED OVER THIS. SO BOOHOO, BRING ME A CHECK. UM, WE'RE CONTINUING ON WITH NEW BUSINESS. THIS IS, UM, 5.02 AND THE WAY I SEE IT, IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, WE'LL DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. I THINK WE CAN DO BOTH OF THESE AT THE SAME TIME. IT MIGHT REQUIRE ONCE OR TWICE GETTING UP. BUT, UH, MR. WATSON, DO YOU HAVE ANY ISSUE WITH US DOING THIS TOGETHER? I DON'T. AND I ACTUALLY ORGANIZED MY PRESENTATION THAT DAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THIS IS, UH, 5.02. UH, MR. DAVID KIEFER, UH, JPA 2024 DASH 25 92. AND, UH, 5.03. MR. DAVID LAUER, HELP ME SLOT. S SLACKER. THANK YOU. JPA 2024 DASH 25 92. UH, YOU'VE ALREADY BEEN SWORN IN MR. WATSON. YOU'VE ALREADY GOT IT PUT TOGETHER. SO LET'S DO IT THAT WAY. SO HERE'S THE SUMMARY AND, UH, APOLOGIZE. WHEN I SAVE THESE PDFS ON THE, EVERY TIME I SAVED THEM, FOR SOME REASON, SOMETIMES LETTERS GET, UH, DELETED. SO WHEN I SAVED IT ON THIS COMPUTER JUST A FEW MINUTES AGO, IT DELETED A FEW LETTERS THERE. BUT IT'S, UH, MR. WARD'S PROJECT FOR MR. SLAUGHTER AND MR. KEFFER. AND THESE ARE SIDE BY SIDE PARCELS IN CAPTAIN'S COVE FACING SHIITE BAY. AND, UH, BASICALLY WHAT WE HAVE IS A REVETMENT AT THE TOW OF A BULKHEAD ON ONE PROPERTY AND THEN EXTENDING ONTO ANOTHER PROPERTY TO CONNECT TO A BULKHEAD ON THAT ONE, UH, CONSTRUCTION WILL BE FROM LAND AND A BARGE, BASICALLY JUST CLASS THREE STONE WITH FILTER CLOTH. AND, UH, THE WETLANDS IS, UH, JUST A CONVERSION OF 300 SQUARE FEET FROM NON VEGETATIVE WETLANDS TO INTERTIDAL STONE. SO, UM, MY UNDERSTANDING IS NO IN LIE FEE [00:20:01] IS CHARGED FOR THAT. UH, THAT'S THE WAY WE SEE IT, BUT WE'LL COME TO THAT. UM, THE OVERLAPPING IS THE REASON THAT I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE PRUDENT TO DO 'EM TOGETHER. ALRIGHT, UM, SO HERE'S GO AHEAD. BASIC LOCATION. I DIDN'T INCLUDE BOTH OF 'EM BECAUSE THEY'RE SIDE BY SIDE, BUT THIS GIVES YOU AN IDEA OF EXACTLY WHERE THESE PROPERTIES ARE. AND HERE'S JUST ANOTHER PICTURE OF THE TWO PROPERTIES. SO HERE'S THE ACTUAL STRUCTURE. UH, SO YOU CAN SEE THE, UH, EXISTING BULKHEAD WITH THE REVETMENT GOING ALONG THE TOE OF THAT BULKHEAD AND THEN EXTENDING OUT AS IT APPROACHES THE PROPERTY LINE OF THE OTHER, OF THE OTHER PARCEL. AND THEN, UH, CONNECTING UP WITH THE EXISTING BULKHEAD ON THE OTHER PARCEL. ESSENTIALLY THIS AREA WHERE THE RED IS AND WHERE THE PURPLE AS IT COMES OUT FROM THE BULKHEAD IS, UH, THERE ARE JUST WETLANDS BEHIND THERE. IT'S OPEN ESSENTIALLY TO SHIITE BAY. SO HERE IS THE DRAWING FOR THE OTHER PROPERTY. OBVIOUSLY YOU CAN SEE, I'LL TOGGLE BACK AND FORTH HOW THESE CONNECT UP WITH THE RED STRAIGHT LINE BEING ON THE OTHER PROPERTY, UH, GOING ALONG THE BORDER. AND NEXT ARE THE PROFILES OF THE TWO, UH, OF THE REVETMENT ON THE TWO SEPARATE PROPERTIES. FIRST, THIS IS ALONG THE TOE OF THE EXISTING BULKHEAD ON THE FIRST PROPERTY AND THEN ALONG THE, UH, WETLANDS OF THE, UH, BUT ESSENTIALLY BETWEEN THE PROPERTIES. HERE ARE SOME HISTORICAL PICTURES. UM, I'LL ACTUALLY POINT THIS OUT BECAUSE THIS IS INTERESTING. THIS RIGHT HERE YOU'LL SEE IN THE NEXT PICTURE OF IT DISAPPEARS BETWEEN 2007 AND 2013. WOW. UM, BUT YOU CAN KIND OF SEE THE SHADOW IN THE WATER OF IT. UM, I'LL BE WERE THEY THE GIAN BASKETS? THAT'S AMAZING. THAT WERE PERMITTED YEARS AGO. IS THAT WHAT THEY WERE? WOULD YOU REPEAT THAT, SIR? UH, THIS IS HANK BADGER. UM, IN THAT 2007, UH, PHOTO THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT, UH, ARE THEY THE GIAN BASKETS THAT WERE OUT THERE THAT WERE GOOD QUESTION. THAT WERE REMOVED? UM, KIM ? UH, I THOUGHT THAT GABBY AND BAS WERE OUT A LITTLE BIT MORE. I THAT MIGHT BE SOMETHING IN INTERNAL TO THE HOUSEHOLD THERE MAYBE. OKAY. THE HOUSING THAT, UH, I WAS JUST TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT THE WIDTH OF THAT'S WIDER THAN A LOW PROFILE BULKHEAD. I WAS THE, THE GABBY'S WERE USUALLY SPACED OUT. THEY WERE, YEAH. MM-HMM . BUT IN CERTAIN CASES THEY WERE LENGTHY TOO. YEAH. SO, BUT IT'S NOT THERE ANYMORE, SO IT DIDN'T REALLY MATTER, I GUESS. SO THERE'S THE 2013, YOU CAN STILL SEE THE SHADOW AND THIS IS THE MOST RECENT. AND YOU CAN SEE THE, THE TWO BULKHEADS AND THE, UH, BEAR AREA IN BETWEEN THAT'S GONNA BE COVERED UP BY THIS REVETMENT. AND HERE'S SOME PICTURES OF THE REVETMENT BEGINS AT THE BOUNDARY BETWEEN THE PURPLE HOUSE AND THE YELLOW HOUSE WHERE THE BULKHEAD JUTS OUT RIGHT THERE. YEAH, IT'S MY, SO IT'S STARTING RIGHT HERE? YES. AND GOING THIS WAY, THERE'S A OKAY, LITTLE CLOSER UP PICTURE OF THE, UH, I GUESS WESTERN PART OF THAT PROPERTY WHERE THE BULKHEAD STARTS. AND THEN HERE IS THE EASTERN SIDE WHERE IT CONNECTS UP TO THE ADJACENT PROPERTY. AND AS YOU CAN SEE, THE STAKES ARE OUT SHOWING WHERE THE REVETMENT WILL GO IN FRONT OF THE EXISTING OF WETLANDS. MM-HMM . AND A LITTLE BIT CLOSER UP ON THAT. OKAY. SO THE REASON IT'S REALLY HERE IN FRONT OF US TODAY, THIS HANK BADGER IS BECAUSE OF THE VEGETATED WETLANDS THAT'S ON THIS SIDE HERE. 'CAUSE THE REST OF IT IS NON-JURISDICTIONAL FOR US. IT'S ABOVE HIGH WATER IN A NON VEGETATED AREA. THAT IS THAT, YES, THAT'S CORRECT. OKAY. SO THIS IS REALLY WHAT WE'RE DEALING WITH. YES. OKAY. AND THAT IS THE, UH, END OF THE PRESENTATION ON THIS ONE. THANK YOU. ALRIGHT. THANK YOU. UH, PLEASE BE SEATED, IF YOU WILL, PLEASE. UM, AND I'D LIKE, UM, MR. CHUCK WARD TO COME FORWARD. HE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THESE TWO JOBS. DO YOU FIRM OR SWEAR YOU'LL TELL THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH, AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH? YES, SIR. ALL MATTERS BEFORE THIS BOARD? YES, SIR. UH, IF YOU WOULD CONTINUE ON WITH THE EXPLANATION, SIR. CERTAINLY. UM, THE, THE FIRST, UH, THE FIRST PROPERTY OWNER, MR. SLAUGHTER, WHO OWNS THIS WOODEN BULKHEAD THAT YOU CAN SEE IN THIS IMAGE HERE, THE, UM, THAT'S HIS YELLOW HOUSE. UH, HE WAS INTERESTED IN REPLACING THE WOODEN BULKHEAD. HE WAS NOTICING A LITTLE BIT OF, YOU KNOW, DEPRESSION IN HIS YARD, LIKE STARTING TO DEPRESS A LITTLE BIT. HE KNEW HE WAS GONNA LOSE SOME SOIL. HE CONTACTED A CONTRACTOR. MR. KEEFER NEXT DOOR GOT INVOLVED IN THE CONVERSATION. UM, ORIGINALLY IT WAS, YOU KNOW, LET'S REPLACE THE BULKHEAD. UM, YOU KNOW, REALLY [00:25:01] NO NEED TO REPLACE THAT BULKHEAD. YOU KNOW, WE, WE DIDN'T FEEL LIKE IT WAS NECESSARY TO REPLACE THE BULKHEAD. UM, SIMPLY BECAUSE HE'S GOT A NICE, WE, WE CAN'T CALL IT A BEACH. I KNOW BIMS WON'T LET US CALL IT A BEACH, BUT FOR OUR PURPOSES WE USE LOWERCASE B. UM, HE'S GOT A NICE LITTLE BEACH OUT THERE. IT WAS A SHAME TO CONVERT THAT INTO, YOU KNOW, PLASTIC BULKHEAD, YOU KNOW, VINYL BULKHEAD. SO, UM, WE DISCUSSED THE IDEA OF PUTTING RIP WRAP IN FRONT OF IT FOR RESENTMENT. UM, AND THE, UM, THE PREVIOUS PHOTO THAT YOU SAW, UM, THE, THE AERIAL FROM 21 I THINK IT WAS. YEAH. AND IN THIS, IN THIS IMAGE, YOU CAN SEE WHERE THIS, I'M GONNA WALK OVER HERE. AND FOR THE RECORD, I'M POINTING TO THE RETURN WALL ON THIS LOAD PROFILE BULKHEAD RIGHT HERE. UM, YOU CAN SEE JUST BEYOND CLOSER TO THE HOUSE THAN THAT. A LOT OF THAT MARSH IS STARTING TO ERODE FROM WAVE ACTION. UM, WELL WE FIGURED IF WE, IF WE CONTINUED THE REVETMENT ON AROUND AND MET UP WITH THAT LOAD PROFILE BULKHEAD, THE WAVE ACTION IS GONNA BRING THE SEDIMENT IN. AND OVER TIME THAT MARSH IS GONNA ACCRETE AND BUILD BACK IN BEHIND THAT RIP WRAP. YOU KNOW, THE TIDE'S STILL GONNA MOVE THROUGH THE RIP WRAP. IT'S JUST THE WAVES WON'T MOVE THROUGH THE RIP WRAP. SO THAT WAS KIND OF THE GENERAL PLAN HERE WAS TO, UM, ALLOW NATURE TO REBUILD THE MARSH THAT WE'VE LOST AND AND PROTECT, UM, YOU KNOW, EXTEND THE LIFE OF, OF, OF MR. SLAUGHTER'S WOODEN BULKHEAD IN INDEFINITELY, YOU KNOW, WITH SOME FILTER CLOTH BEHIND IT. AND, BUT WE'RE NOT GONNA HAVE ANY, THERE WON'T BE ANY FILTER CLOTH OR ANY FILL BEHIND THAT BULKHEAD ONCE THE REV RESENTMENT BEGINS TO SEPARATE AWAY FROM THAT BULKHEAD TO MAKE THE TURN BECAUSE OF THIS CORNER. AS YOU ALL SAW IN THIS, IN THIS NORTHEAST CORNER RIGHT HERE, THERE'S SOME, THERE'S SOME INTERESTING LITTLE, LITTLE INTERESTING LITTLE ECOSYSTEM THERE OF SOME BRUSH AND, UH, SOME SHRUBS AND, AND WETLAND PLANTS. SO, UM, BY HAVING THAT RESENTMENT IN FRONT OF IT, THE TIDE CAN STILL SPLASH THROUGH THERE AND NOURISH THAT AREA AND KEEP IT, KEEP IT VIABLE. ALRIGHT, SIR. UH, WE'RE GONNA, FIRST OF ALL, I SHOULD ASK YOU THIS WHEN YOU FIRST CAME UP HERE. I DON'T NEED ANY, UH, EARACHES. DID YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH US DOING THESE TWO JPA TOGETHER? SIR, IT'S A PLEASURE OF THE BOARD. I'M, I'M, I'M HERE TO HELP YOU THROUGH IT HOWEVER I CAN. THANK YOU. UH, WOULD LIKE YOU TO BE SEATED JUST FOR A MOMENT, PLEASE. UH, IS THERE ANYONE ELSE HERE THAT WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK SPECIFICALLY ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR JOB? I'LL CLOSE THE FLOOR. OPEN PUBLIC COMMENT, CLOSE THE FLOOR, OPEN IT TO BOARD DISCUSSION NOW CARRY ON. AND MS. GORMAN, UH, WE'RE GONNA SWEAR YOU IN, MA'AM. UH, SINCE YOU WERE LOOKING THROUGH YOUR NOTES, DO YOU AFFIRM OR SWEAR TO TELL THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH IN ALL MATTERS BEFORE THIS BOARD? I DO. THANK YOU, MA'AM. UH, YOUR, IT'S YOUR NICKEL. DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING TO SAY? I DO JUST WANNA CLARIFY THAT THIS AREA IN FRONT OF THE BULKHEAD IS NON VEGETATED WETLANDS. UM, IT IS NOT A BEACH AND THE AREA. SO IN THE DRAWINGS, WHAT I WAS LOOKING THROUGH IS THE, UM, THE HIGH TIDE LINE IS SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT IN THE CROSS SECTION AND THE AERIAL. YES. BUT BASED ON WHAT WE SAW ON SITE, IT APPEARED THAT HIGH TIDE DOES REACH THE BULKHEAD ON A REGULAR BASIS. SO IT'S CONSIDERED NON VEGETATED WETLANDS AND NOT A BEACH. IT, IT CERTAINLY DOES. 'CAUSE IF IT WAS A BEACH, IT WOULD BE STATE JURISDICTION, WHICH IT IS. WE HAVE NOT ACCEPTED JURISDICTION. EVERYONE UNDERSTANDS THAT THEY LOOKED AT IT. THANK YOU SO MUCH. UH, THANK YOU MS. GORMAN. UM, THEN I'D LIKE TO OPEN UP THE FLOOR TO BOARD DISCUSSIONS. MR. MOORE, CAN I GET YOU? THANK YOU VERY MUCH. UH, OF COURSE, MR. CHAIR, I HAVE TO DISCLOSE I'M A MEMBER OF CAPTAIN COVE HOA, BUT I HAVE NO POSITION OF AUTHORITY OR RESPONSIBILITY OF CAPTAIN COVE CO WELL, THAT WE WISH YOU DID. YEAH. . OKAY. YEAH. OKAY. SO YOU, I THINK YOU, UH, I THINK YOU EXPLAINED MY BIGGEST CONCERN WAS THAT ONCE YOU PUT THIS, UH, RIP WRAP OR THE REVETMENT IN, THERE'LL BE STILL SUFFICIENT FLOW OVER THE TOP OR THROUGH TO KEEP THAT PARTICULAR MARSH STILL ALIVE THAT'S BEHIND IT. CERTAINLY. AND THAT, AND THAT. AND THAT'S THE REASON WHY YOU'RE NOT PUTTING ANY FABRIC DOWN TO THE WATER CAN GO THROUGH THERE AND CLEARLY KEEP IT NOURISHED ESSENTIALLY. YEAH. NOR IN, IN A LOT OF CASES, IF YOU'RE, UH, DOING A REVAMP WITH CLASS THREE AND THEN CLASS TWO STONES, YOU'RE TRYING TO PACK THE SMALL STONES IN TO FILL THE VOYAGE, PUT THE FILTER CLOTH BEHIND IT WITH THE PLYWOOD, AND THEN YOU PUT BACKFILL AGAINST IT. IN THIS CASE, WE'RE LOOKING, ALL WE'RE LOOKING TO DO IS TO KILL THE WAVE ACTION. RIGHT? UM, WE DON'T CARE IF WATER GETS THROUGH. WE'RE NOT TRYING TO BACKFILL IT. UM, SO AS LONG AS WE KNOCK THE WAVE ACTION DOWN TO KEEP IT FROM TEARING UP THE EXISTING WETLANDS THAT ARE THE VEGETATIVE WETLANDS THAT ARE THERE, UM, THAT'S SUFFICIENT FOR, FOR THE OWNER'S NEEDS AND FOR OUR INTEREST IN THE PROJECT. THAT WAS MY BIGGEST CONCERN. 'CAUSE I DIDN'T WANT YOU TO PUT THAT IN. ALL OF A SUDDEN EVERYTHING JUST DRIES UP IN THE BACK. NO, I DON'T THINK THAT, I DON'T THINK THAT'LL HAPPEN. THAT WAS MY MAJOR AND MY MINOR ONE WAS THE FACT THAT I DID SEE SOME SORT OF LIKE SHELLFISH OR NOT ON THE ROCKS OR JUST, JUST AS BEST AS YOU CAN. IF YOU SEE ANYTHING THAT'S ALIVE IN TERMS OF OYSTERS OR CLAMS, PLEASE LOCATE THEM [00:30:01] ABSOLUTELY. SO THAT THEY CAN MAINTAIN. AND, UH, THANK YOU. THAT WILL ALSO BE IN THE MOTION OKAY. AS IT USUALLY IS. UH, BUT YOU'VE DONE IT LONG ENOUGH, YOU ALREADY KNOW THAT'S COMING. CERTAINLY. ABSOLUTELY. GLAD TO. ALRIGHT. UH, WHY DON'T WE KEEP HIM UP HERE. QUESTIONS, PLEASE. OR MR. WARD? MR. WARD. MR. WARD , I HAVE NO QUESTION. SHOULD, SHOULD WE DISCLOSE ON OCCASION THAT WE'RE NOT ACTUALLY RELATED THAT WE KNOW? YOU NEVER KNOW. UH, WE PROBABLY ARE. BUT DON'T YOU MET YOU YOURSELF? SO THERE'S, THERE'S NO CO STONE WANT VEGETATED PLANTS OR NOTHING. IS THAT, IS THAT CORRECT? THERE'S NO MR. TAYLOR CARRY ON COURSE. THE THE ROCK RIGHT? IS THERE'S NONE THAT'S ACTUALLY GONNA BE LAID ON VEGETATED. WHAT? ARE THERE NO. AND NOT, OH, NO, NO, NO. WE'RE GONNA STAY IN, WE'RE GONNA STAY IN FRONT OF THE VEGETATION. YES. THAT'S, YEAH. ABSOLUTELY. ABSOLUTELY. ABSOLUTELY. THAT'S, THAT'S, YEAH. WE WANT THE VEGETATION. WE WANT OH, WE WANT THAT TO, YES. WE WANT THAT TO GROW. WE THAT PROTECT YOU TOO. EXACTLY. THAT PROTECTS YOU TOO. MR. BADGER, ANY QUESTIONS FOR MR. WARD? I HAVE NONE. ALRIGHT. THANK YOU, SIR. BE SEATED. UH, ANYONE CONTINUING DISCUSSION OF BOARD? ANY QUESTIONS FOR MS. GORMAN OR MR. WATSON? NOTHING. OKAY. UH, BOTH OF THESE JPA TOGETHER, UH, MAY I PLEASE CALL FOR A MOTION, UH, MR. CHAIR? I WOULD, THIS IS TIM GECK. I WOULD LIKE TO TRY TO MAKE A MOTION ON VMRC 2024 DASH 25 90 AND 2024 DASH 25 92 THAT WE ACCEPT THE, UH, PERMIT AS GIVEN WITH THE UNDERSTANDING THAT ONE, THAT THE, UH, ANY BIO, UH, SPECIES WILL BE RELOCATED. AND NUMBER TWO, ANY SORT OF, UH, UH, CHANGE TO THE NON VEGETATED WETLANDS IS CONSIDERED A CONVERSION. AND HENCE FOR IF THERE IS NO MITIGATION FEE INVOLVED. THANK YOU. HAVE A SECOND, PLEASE. SECOND. THANK YOU MR. TAYLOR. SECONDS. UH, CALL FOR A VOTE, PLEASE. UH, AYE. AYE. UNANIMOUS. UH, SIR, UH, PERMANENCE APPROVED FOR TWO YEARS FROM TODAY'S DATE. ALL PARTIES ARE ADVISED THAT THE FOREGONE DETERMINATION GRANTS NO AUTHORITY TO ENCROACH ON THE PROPERTY OF OTHERS. YES, SIR. THANK YOU, SIR. ALL RIGHT. YES, SIR. UH, UH, ANYTHING TO SAY PRIOR TO MOVING ON TO OTHER BUSINESS? UM, JUST, UH, WETLANDS BOARD OR ENVIRONMENT? THAT IS CORRECT. STAFF REPORT. GOOD. UH, THAT IS, UH, WORD POLICIES AND PROCEDURES. THIS IS OTHER BUSINESS, UH, 6.01. I, UH, INCLUDED THAT ON THE AGENDA BECAUSE IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT THIS DOCUMENT HAS BEEN REVIEWED, REVISIONS HAVE BEEN MADE. I CLEANED IT UP AND DISTRIBUTED IT AND DID NOT KNOW IF, UM, OR DID NOT KNOW HOW YOU WANTED TO PROCEED FROM HERE. WE WANT TO DIGEST IT. WE WANT TO ASK QUESTIONS WHEN THE TIME COMES. AND, UH, WE APPRECIATE THE EXPERIENCE. UH, ANYONE HAS RESEARCHED IT ALREADY AND HAVE QUESTIONS. CERTAINLY THEY CAN COME WHEN, WHEN THE TIME COMES. UH, AND THERE'LL BE SOME, SIR. UM, THE SECOND ITEM IS I BELIEVE THAT A, UH, NEW SCHEDULE HAS BEEN, UM, A, A NEW DEADLINE SCHEDULE HAS BEEN DISTRIBUTED. UM, AND JUST WANTED TO EXPLAIN THAT A LITTLE, UM, UH, SCHEDULE. I'M SORRY. ARE WE INTO, UH, JUST A REPORT FROM ENVIRONMENTAL? YES. THEY ALREADY HAVE IT. SO IT'S, IT'S CHANGED FROM OUR WELL, YOUR MEETINGS HAVE NOT CHANGED. JUST THE, EXCUSE ME. GOTCHA. THAT'S CLEAR. THE APPLICATION DEADLINES. OKAY. WELL, WE HAVE IT COMING. AND BASICALLY IT'S THE, UH, DEADLINES CORRECT. FOR APPLICATION DONE. YEAH. UH, YES, SIR. UM, I ADJUSTED THAT SLIGHTLY TO, UH, CONFORM WITH THE 60 DAY DEADLINE FOR COMPLETED APPLICATIONS. UNDERSTAND. AND THEN, UH, THE BOTTOM OF THE PAGE IS AN EXPLANATION OF, OF WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE ONCE WE GET AN APPLICATION SO THAT EVERYONE IS AWARE OF, UH, SEVERAL STEPS THAT NEED TO BE TAKEN FOR US TO DETERMINE THAT AN APPLICATION IS COMPLETE. I KNOW YOU'RE AWARE OF THIS FROM JUST BEING UP HERE, BUT WE APPRECIATE THIS VERY MUCH. WE HAVE HAD SOME ISSUES PRIOR TO THIS UP UNTIL X NUMBER OF MONTHS AGO. WE DIDN'T EVEN HAVE DEADLINES OR WE DIDN'T KNOW WHEN THE COMPLETED APPLICATION HAD TO BE IN. AND, UH, IT'S, IT'S HELPED US TREMENDOUSLY. UH, SO WE APPRECIATE IT. AND IF THERE'S ANY OTHER REASON THESE THINGS NEED TO BE CHANGED, [00:35:01] IT'S LITERALLY FOR PEOPLE AROUND THIS ROOM, NOT NECESSARILY FOR US. UH, BUT WE APPRECIATE IT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. UM, AND IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE FROM THE ENVIRONMENTAL STAFF THAT WE NEED TO KNOW, OR ANY COMMENTS? UM, TWO ADDITIONAL MATTERS. FIRST, UM, JUST AN UPDATE ON, UH, B INC. AND MR. BRITTON'S PROJECT ON STI THAT WAS BEFORE THE BOARD AT THE LAST MEETING. YEAH, WE HEARD OF HIM. UM, HE HAS, UH, PAID THE FEE. UM, AND, UH, MS. GORMAN AND I HAVE, UH, MEASURED THE RESULTING BULKHEAD. UH, AND I, UM, IT TURNS OUT THAT, UH, EVEN THOUGH THE BULKHEAD HAS BEEN REPLACED, IT, THERE ARE STILL PROBLEMS WITH THE MEASUREMENTS. AND WE ARE WORKING WITH HIM AND EXPECT THIS PROBABLY TO BE BACK BEFORE THE BOARD OF THE NEXT MEETING. SO IT'S MORE THAN THE A HUNDRED NEXT NUMBER OF FEET, UH, FROM THE LAST TIME HE WAS OUT OF TOWN. THEORETICALLY, HIS EMPLOYEES, AS YOU KNOW, PUT IT IN THE WRONG PLACE. HE MOVED IT, BUT THERE WAS SOME ISSUE WITH VEG OR NON VEG BEHIND IT. UH, WELL, THE PLAN SHOWED THAT OF, I WOULD GUESS THE BEST WAY TO PUT IT, THE MAIN FACE OF THE BULKHEAD AS A FRONT CHITE BAY SHOULD BE 38 FEET IN LENGTH. IT'S, OH BOY. PROBABLY MORE LIKE 44 FEET STILL. IS HE AWARE? HE IS. UM, I'VE SPOKEN TO HIM A FEW TIMES ABOUT IT. UM, AND UH, SO I EXPECT THAT TO BE THE SUBJECT OF, OF THE NEXT BOARD MEETING. OH, WE CAN'T WAIT. . OH, WE ACTUALLY HAD POLL, WE HAD POLLS ACTUALLY OUT THERE THAT WAS SPEAK UP, MR. TAYLOR. THIS IS IMPORTANT. WE PHYSICALLY HAD MARKERS, SAID THAT THIS WOULDN'T HAPPEN, THAT WERE PHYSICALLY THERE. THEY WERE PUT THERE. AND, UM, THE NEXT ISSUE I WANNA BRING TO YOUR ATTENTION IS THAT AT THE LAST MEETING, I BELIEVE AT THE LAST MEETING, THERE WAS A WALLOPS ISLAND LARGE PROJECT WITH A LARGE ENLO FEE. THAT IS CORRECT. AND BMRC IS BROUGHT TO MY ATTENTION THAT THE ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS MAY BE, UH, OWED, I'M NOT SURE IF THAT'S THE EXACT WORD, BUT AT THE VERY LEAST, TAKING PART OF OUR IN LIEU FEE TAKING PART OF WHAT? OF OUR IN LIEU FEE THAT, THAT WAS CHARGED. THAT, THAT I THAT'S FINE. UM, HE HAD THE ABILITY TO BRING THAT UP. WE CERTAINLY HAVE, UH, THE ABILITY AND TALKED ABOUT IT, BUT HE WAS SO, UH, INTENT ON PAYING IT. WHY NOT? IT HAS NOT BEEN PAID YET. AND MY UNDERSTANDING IS IT HAS NOT BEEN PAID BECAUSE THEY'RE WAITING ON THE ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS TO DETERMINE WHAT AMOUNT OF THAT FEE IS GOING TO BE OWED TO THE ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS. BUT I, MR. CHAIRMAN, MR. CHAIRMAN. YES, SIR. GO AHEAD. TWO DIFFERENT TOTAL DIFFERENT ORGANIZATIONS, CORPS OF ENGINEERS, FEDERAL, IF THEY WANNA CHARGE 'EM IN ADDITION TO OURS, THEY CAN DO IT. I, AND I'M, LIKE I SAID, VERY CLEAR. YOU CAN DO, WHAT I'M SAYING IS YOU'RE TALK, YOU'RE TALKING TWO DIFFERENT I YIELD TO MS. GORMAN. YES. UH, MS. GORMAN, UH, YOU'VE BEEN SWORN IN. WOULD YOU PLEASE STRAIGHTEN US OUT FOR US? YES. SO WHAT HAS HAPPENED IS THAT YOU ALL ISSUED A PERMIT FOR WETLAND IMPACTS AND CHARGED AN IN FEE. OH, CORRECT. I'M SORRY. THAT'S CORRECT. YOU HAVE NOT. YOU APPROVED A THAT IS, THAT IS CORRECT. WE APPROVED IT CHARGED IN FEES. SO THE ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS IS ALSO REVIEWING THIS PROJECT. THEY ARE COMPONENTS OF THE WETLANDS THAT ARE JURISDICTIONAL TO THE ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS, AND THEY WILL BE REQUIRING COMPENSATION AS WELL. SO IN ORDER NOT TO DUPLICATE THE COMPENSATION ON THE WETLANDS IN THAT, AT THAT SITE, THE WAY IT WORKS IS THAT WHATEVER THE ARMY CORPS CHARGES FOR CREDITS WILL BE DEDUCTED FROM THE IN LIEU FEE THAT YOU ALL CHARGED. AND THE REASON FOR THAT IS SO THAT THE APPLICANT IS NOT PAYING TWICE FOR MITIGATION. I UNDERSTAND. FOR THE SAME, UH, WEAPONS. AND IT MAKES PLENTY OF SENSE, I THINK, TO THIS BOARD WITH THE SAME EXCEPTION THAT I JUST SAID. MR. I CAN LOOK IT UP. THE GENTLEMAN THAT WAS HERE, UH, MR. RICKY WOODY? YES, THAT IS CORRECT. MM-HMM . WOODY, UM, MADE IT EXTREMELY CLEAR THAT, UH, HE WAS PAYING THE FEE. UH, IF THERE IS A CHANGE THEN, AND IT'S A LEGAL CHANGE, THEN WE HAVE LITTLE TO SAY ABOUT IT. I THINK. MR. CHAIRMAN, I GOT A QUESTION, SIR. SIR. CARRY ON MR. TAYLOR. HOW THAT'S NOT CASE. A NEVER AN EVER SITUATION. WHAT? OH, I MEAN, BECAUSE THE ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS, THIS IS THE FIRST TIME I HAVE COME ACROSS A PROJECT, IS EXACTLY LIKE THIS BEFORE, WHERE THERE'S OVERLAP. UM, AND THE CORE IS CHARGING MITIGATION AND THE BOARD CHARGES MITIGATION. I HAVEN'T COME ACROSS THIS EITHER, BUT IT IS GIVEN THE SCOPE OF THIS PROJECT AND THE, LIKE, PRETTY LARGE [00:40:01] IMPACTS. THAT'S WHY THIS IS, THIS IS HAPPENING NOW. AND TO JUST, UH, I, I DON'T THINK MR. WOODY WAS AWARE THAT THIS WOULD BE THE CASE. OKAY? MM-HMM . UM, AND THEY ARE STILL NOT, THEY HAVE NOT RECEIVED CONFIRMATION FROM THE COURT AS TO WHAT THEY WILL OR WILL NOT BE CHARGING FOR. BUT I THINK IT JUST, MR. WATSON WANTED TO BRING IT TO YOU ALL'S Y'ALL'S ATTENTION. IT'S FINE. AND IT MAY BE THE THING TO DO AND MAY BE, UH, WE HAVE A LITTLE TO SAY ABOUT IT, BUT WHEN HE WAS HERE, UH, HE WAS INTENT ON MOVING THIS ALONG. YES. AND THAT WAS THE REASON THAT HE SAID, I GOT NO ISSUE WITH WHATEVER THE FEE WAS. MM-HMM . SO WE PLAYED THE HAND, WE WERE DEALT, AND NOW IT HAS CHANGED. SO I DON'T KNOW THE PROPER PROCEDURE WHEN IT CHANGES AND X GOES TO SOMEONE ELSE, WHETHER THEY HAVE TO COME BACK HERE, POSSIBLY YOU CAN ANSWER THAT. I COULD GET SOME CLARIFICATION ON THE PROCEDURAL KIND OF COMPONENTS OF THAT. ONCE THEY DO RECEIVE WHAT, UH, WHAT THEY'RE REQUIRING, IF IT'S EVER HAPPENED IN THE PAST, WHAT IS THEIR RATE? HMM. IF IT'S EVER HAPPENED IN THE PAST ON ANY OTHER THING, I KNOW IT'S NOT HAPPENED. ANYTHING THAT WE'VE EVER DID. SO IF IT'S HAPPENED IN THE PAST, WHAT IS THE RATE THEY HAVE PREVIOUSLY CHARGED SOMEBODY ELSE FOR THE SAME TYPE OF SITUATION PER SQUARE FOOT. SO THE ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS TYPICALLY REQUIRES PURCHASE OF VAR DIFF CREDITS, WHICH AT THE MOMENT I BELIEVE ARE LIKE 34, 30 $5, UM, A SQUARE FOOT. UM, IT'S IN THE THIRTIES, THAT'S ALL I KNOW. IT'S QUITE A BIT MORE THAN, THAN THAN YOUR IN THE, SO THE GOVERNMENT'S GONNA CHARGE THE GOVERNMENT AND THEY'RE GONNA TAKE ALL THE, ALL OF OUR MONEY PLUS THEN SOME AND, AND WIPE IT OUT. LET'S GET REALISTIC. WHAT IT IS, . WELL, IT'S ALSO GOVERNMENT MONEY , UH, MR. TAYLOR. UH, IT GOES IN THE, UH, IN THE CASH BOX. AND IT'S FOR PRESERVING WETLANDS OR MAKING WETLANDS OR I NOTHING TO US. CORRECT. THOSE FEES ARE NOT GOING TO THE ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS. THEY'RE GOING TO VAR DIFF, WHICH IS A, A, A WETLANDS MITIGATION. IT, IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE CHECK. IT BOTHERS ME THAT, UH, WE HAD IT CUT AND DRIED. HE COULDN'T WAIT MM-HMM . TO SAY NO PROBLEM. AND OH, AND TO BE CLEAR, NOTHING, THERE WAS NOTHING, NOTHING WAS DONE INCORRECTLY. I SO WHAT AGAIN? SO IT DOES GO TO A VIRGINIA RECONSTRUCTIVE ORGANIZATION. IT DOES NOT GO TO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. IF THEY RECLAIM, THAT'S FINE WITH ME. THAT IT'S, IT'S, I JUST CREDITS WETLAND CREDIT. IT'S NOT JUST VIRGINIA. IT STAY IN VIRGINIA. RIGHT. THAT'S YEAH, THAT'S FINE. ME, IT'S ALL COST TO ME. IT WAS GOVERNMENT CHARGING GOVERNMENT. THANK, THANK YOU FOR CLEARING THAT UP. YOU, I MEAN, I DO HAVE A, EXCUSE ME. CARRY ON. THAT'S MY FIRST COMMENT, MR. GET I, I JUST KEPT THINKING, UH, I'M CURIOUS. A FEDERAL AGENCY CHARGING ANOTHER FEDERAL AGENCY, THAT DOESN'T SEEM TO BE SOMETHING THAT'S REQUIRED OR DOABLE. YOU KNOW, WE HAVE OUR RULES IN VIRGINIA THAT WE DON'T CHARGE THE STATE AND THE VICE VERSA. I DIDN'T KNOW FEDERAL GO FEDERAL AGENCY WOULD CHARGE ANOTHER FEDERAL AGENCY FOR A MITIGATION LICENSE. SO THE ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS STILL CAN, THEY CAN EXERT JURISDICTION OVER, UM, OVER THE WETLANDS AT WALLOPS, EVEN THOUGH IT IS A, ANOTHER FEDERAL ELON DIDN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THIS, DID HE? I DON'T THINK SO. I I DO HAVE A SECOND ONE THOUGH. AND THE QUESTION, THE CONCERN WE HAD HERE WITH THIS MITIGATION FEE WAS THAT WE DIDN'T HAVE A PARTICULAR HYDROLOGIC ZONE FOR WALLOPS OPS TO BE PUTTING THIS FEE, THIS, THIS BANK CREDIT INTO A HYDROLOGIC ZONE AS, AS IN A HOT CODE. WELL, THE IDEA THAT WE'RE IN, I THINK CHITE AND CAPITAL COBIN IS IN THIS ONE ZONE THAT IF YOU WANT TO HAVE BANK CREDITS OR MITIGATION CREDITS, YOU CAN APPLY TO IT. SO MY QUESTION FOR YOU RIGHT NOW IS THAT WE STILL DON'T HAVE THAT CORRECT FOR OPS ISLAND AREA. SO WHEN YOU GIVE THIS CREDITS AWAY, I I BELIEVE IT'S GONNA GO TO ANOTHER PART OF VIRGINIA AND NOT STAY WITHIN OUR ZONE HERE. WELL, AS FAR AS I UNDERSTAND, THERE ARE NO TITLE MITIGATION BANKS AVAILABLE FOR THE EASTERN SHORE AS A WHOLE. OKAY. SO I'M THINKING MORE OF A FRESHWATER WETLAND SORT OF SITUATION MAYBE. CORRECT. AND SO WHAT VAR DIFF DOES IS THEY DO, IT MAY NOT COME BACK HERE SPECIFICALLY, BUT IT IS A VIRGINIA BASED CREDIT SYSTEM AND IT'S, IT, I I SEE YOUR POINT THOUGH, WHY I'D LIKE TO HAVE IT STAY IN THIS AREA. BASICALLY. WAIT A, WAIT A JUST ONE SECOND. UH, MR. TAYLOR, UH, FIRST OF ALL, WE CAN BEAT THIS TO DEATH, BUT IT'S OVER OUR HEADS OUT OF OUR, UH, PAY GRADES. SO WHAT IT IS, IT IS GO, GO AHEAD MR. TAYLOR. SO, SO HOPEFULLY THEY CHARGED A 34 AND IT STILL GOES TO VIRGINIA FOR, FOR DOING SO THAT'S, THAT'D BE A GOOD THING. YES. AS LONG AS IT COMES BACK TO THE STATE OF VIRGINIA. NOT GOES TO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. SO, I MEAN, I HAVE NO LONG AS IT'S, LIKE I SAID, THEY'RE CHARGING THE 34. HEY, THAT'S FINE. WE GO, THAT'S FINE. WE COULD GATHER BEST ESTIMATES MORE THAT GETS, IT GETS MITIGATED FOR AND THEY WANNA KNOW WHERE IT'S AT. THAT'S FINE WITH ME. . NOT THAT IT CARES ANYWAY. OF COURSE, YOU KNOW ME, I ALL, YEAH. BUT I HOPE THAT THE CLARIFICATION MADE IT MORE [00:45:01] YEAH. IT STILL STAYS IN THE STATE AND IT STILL FOR, FOR, UH, FOR, FOR CREATION OF WETLANDS. YES. SEE, THAT'S A GOOD THING. AND THEY HAVE TO HOPE THEY CHARGE THE 34 IN THAT, IN THAT CASE. UH, ANY MORE C CARRY ON. YEAH. BADGER, MR. BADGER. UM, SO DOES THE CORE TAKE PRECEDENCE OVER THE WETLANDS BOARD ? BECAUSE WHEN THEY, THAT'S WHAT IT SOUNDS LIKE. THEY'RE, YOU'RE TELLING ME THAT'S HAPPENING? YEAH. I, I THINK THAT, UM, AND AGAIN, THIS IS THE FIRST TIME THAT I'VE COME ACROSS THIS, BUT YES, WHEN THE CORE CHARGES MITIGATION AND THERE IS THAT OVERLAP, THOSE THAT MITIGATION, THOSE CREDITS DO TAKE PRECEDENT OVER A LOCAL IN LIEU FEE. OKAY. OKAY. THANK YOU. UM, AND I CAN GET MORE CLARIFICATION ON THAT TOO, IF YOU'D LIKE. UH, IT, WE'D LIKE TO KNOW, NOT THAT IT'S GOING TO CHANGE ANYTHING, UH, BUT WE WOULD LIKE TO AT LEAST BECOME EDUCATED ABOUT IT FOR THE NEXT TIME IF IT EVER HAPPENS. UH, AS YOU ALL AROUND THIS TABLE, UH, KNOW WE HAVE BEEN THROUGH VARIOUS THINGS WHEN THEY WERE DOING THINGS ON ACETATE AND THEY'VE BEEN KIND ENOUGH TO COME HERE. THEY CAN PUT MATS DOWN ANYWHERE THEY WANT AND DRIVE AN ARMY TANK OVER IT IF THEY CHOOSE. AS FAR AS I KNOW. BUT THEY'VE BEEN KIND ENOUGH TO COME HERE AND AT LEAST TELL US WHAT THEY WERE GONNA DO. SO THIS IS JUST ANOTHER ASPECT OF THAT. SO IN TERMS OF FEDERAL PROJECTS, IS THAT THAT'S CORRECT. MM-HMM . WELL, YOU, YOU DO HAVE, YOU KNOW, PURVIEW OVER FEDERAL PROJECTS . OKAY. OKAY. THE ONLY TIME WE DON'T, I HEAR YOU LOUD AND CLEAR. WHAT THE ONLY TIME WE'VE DONE IS IF IT'S A BEACH AND THEN VIMS GETS IN THE MIDDLE OF IT AND SAYS IT'S NO IMPACT TO THE ADJACENT PROPERTY OWNERS. AND THEN IT'S OUTTA OUR JURISDICTION IF I, IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY. OKAY. I, I, I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT. I KNOW YOU ARE. YEAH. OKAY. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS PLEASE FOR MS. GORMAN? UH, THANK YOU FOR STRAIGHTENING THIS OUT. UH, THAT'S NOW SIR. MR. WATSON, UH, ANYTHING ALONG THOSE LINES YOU'D LIKE TO, UH, NOTHING FURTHER ON THAT. AND THE ONLY OTHER THING I HAVE IS THAT WE DO HAVE, UH, WELL, TWO APPLICATIONS FOR MR. WARD, UH, FOR MARCH, AND THE CONTINUATION OF THE CAROL HEARING FROM JANUARY. OH, GREAT. ON THE MARCH DOCKET. SO WE DO HAVE THINGS ON THE MARCH DOCKET. OKAY. UM, I'M SURE THERE WAS, AND, UH, WE'LL CERTAINLY BE HERE. BUT, UM, UH, ANY OTHER QUESTIONS RELATING TO ANYTHING? UH, MR. WATSON BRINGS A LOT TO THE TABLE FROM DOWN THE COUNTY THAT WE'D LIKE TO LEARN. UH, YOUR EDUCATION IS GONNA BE WHAT YOU JUST WENT THROUGH, UH, OVER ON SEASIDE, UH, FEDERAL, UH, OPS, ET CETERA, ET CETERA. YOU'RE GONNA HEAR A LOT. SO, UH, YOU BETTER GET YOUR BOOK OUT. . UH, THANK YOU. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR ANYONE? I JUST WANNA SAY, FIRST OF ALL, WELCOME ABOARD, AND, AND I JUST WANNA SAY THANK YOU. UH, I THINK IT'S A COMBINATION. THANK YOU FOR THESE MEMORANDUMS. THEY'RE VERY SYNOPSIS'S, VERY NICE THAT PEOPLE WILL TELL YOU. I ENJOY READING . SO, UH, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. UH, IT HELPS ME ORGANIZE WHAT WE NEED TO DO TOO, SO. WELL, WE APPRECIATE YOU. WE'RE GLAD TO HAVE YOU ON BOARD. UH, MS. FLOYD, UH, WELCOME BACK. OUR PRAYERS ARE ANSWERED AND WE TRULY APPRECIATE YOU BEING HERE. UH, MS. HARMON, THANK YOU FOR ALL YOU DO, AND YOU'VE STEPPED UP AND YOU'RE TAKING ON MORE BATTLES. SO WE APPRECIATE EVERYBODY. UH, THANK YOU MR. PAMED. WE APPRECIATE YOU WITH THE GUIDANCE. UH, WE'LL NEED A LOT. SO THANK YOU. UH, IS, THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ELSE RELATING TO ENVIRONMENTAL. OKAY. THAT'S IT. OKAY. THANK YOU. UM, NEXT MEETING IS, UH, MARCH 27TH. UH, THAT'S, UH, UH, 10 O'CLOCK RIGHT HERE, THURSDAY. EXPECT YOU ALL TO BE HERE. UH, I'D LIKE A MOTION TO ADJOURN. SO MOVE, MR. CHAIRMAN. THANK YOU, SIR. MR. TAYLOR. MOTION TO ADJOURN. SECOND. KEVIN GADIG. I'LL SECOND MR. GADIG. SECOND TO THIS VOTE. AYE, WE'RE ADJOURNED. HIT THE ROAD. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.