* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. MEETING OF THE ACK [00:00:01] COUNTY BOARD OF [Board of Zoning Appeals on March 5, 2025.] ZONING APPEALS MEETING IS NOW CALLED TO ORDER. I THINK WE HAVE A QUORUM PRESENT. UH, DO I HEAR A MOTION TO ADOPT THE AGENDA? I MOVE THAT TO ADOPT THE AGENDA. SECOND. SECOND HAS BEEN SECONDED. UH, AGENDA HAS BEEN ADOPTED. UM, DO I HEAR AN APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES THAT WERE SUBMITTED? I DIDN'T SEE ANY ISSUES OR CORRECTIONS. I MOVE THAT WE APPROVE THEM MINUTES AS THEY APPEAR. OKAY, SECOND, SECOND. MOTION HAS BEEN MADE AND SECONDED. UH, MINUTES ARE APPROVED. UH, WHERE I THINK WE'RE READY FOR THE PUBLIC HEARING WHEN YOUR CASE IS CALLED, UH, COME FORWARD AND BE SWORN IN. SO, WHO'S STARTING US OFF? ALL I MIGHT NEED THIS. UM, HI EVERYBODY. UM, FOR THE RECORD, I'M GIN JONES, CODE ENFORCEMENT OFFICER FOR ZONING. AND, UH, WE HAVE ONE CASE TODAY. IT'S, UH, A ZUBER SIGN, WHICH IS THE CASE NUMBER IS SUSE 0 0 0 0 18 20 25. IT'S A SPECIAL USE PERMIT FOR AN OFF-PREMISES SIGN. BACKGROUND INFORMATION. THE APPLICANT IS ANDREA EMBER. THE PROPERTY OWNERS ARE EM, EMERY AND KATHY HURST. LOCATION IS 90 3D DASH FOUR DASH 35. DISTRICT IS JACKIE PHILLIPS. THE SITE IS 0.65 ACRES. UH, THE ZONING IS GENERAL BUSINESS. FUTURE LAND USE IS VILLAGE DEVELOPMENT AREA. UH, THE CURRENT AND PROPOSED UNIT, UH, USES ARE GENERAL BUSINESS, AND THE ADJACENT ZONING IS A GENERAL BUSINESS AND AGRICULTURAL TO THE NORTH THAT WE'RE GONNA SEE IN THE, IN THE AERIALS. UM, AND ALSO ADJACENT USES ARE AGRICULTURAL AND RESIDENTIAL, WHICH WOULD BE SINGLE FAMILY DWELLINGS, PLANS AND ELEVATIONS. SO HERE'S THE AERIAL FOR THE SITE 0.65 ACRES. UM, ZONE BUSINESS. YOU CAN SEE THE AG IN THE BACK. FUTURE ZONING, WHICH IS A VILLAGE DEVELOPMENT AREA. THIS IS A CHESAPEAKE BAY PRESERVATION AREA. IT'S NOT IN THE CBPA. UH, AND THERE ARE NO FLOOD PLAIN REQUIREMENTS. THIS IS THE SITE PLAN. UM, THE SIGN, THIS IS AN AFTER THE FACT PERMIT. THE SIGN IS ALREADY THERE. SO THE SIGN IS 17 FEET FROM THE FRONT LOT LINE, UH, 92 FEET FROM THE EAST LOT LINE, AND I BELIEVE THAT'S 13 FEET FROM THE WEST LOT LINE, THEN 173 FEET TO THE REAR. UM, THE SIGN IS ALSO NINE FEET, EIGHT INCHES IN HEIGHT. AND THESE ARE SOME PICTURES. YOU CAN SEE THE SIGN ON THE TOP LEFT. UH, THE TOP LEFT PHOTO IS, UH, MARKET STREET, LIKE YOU'RE GOING TOWARDS THE C**K. THE TOP RIGHT IS MARKET STREET GOING TOWARDS ONLY THE BOTTOM LEFT IS, UH, A VIEW OF THE PROPERTY FROM THE REAR. AND THE BOTTOM RIGHT IS THE VIEW OF THE PROPERTY FROM THE ROAD. OKAY. SO CONSIDERATIONS FOR SPECIAL USE PERMITS, UH, WHETHER THE PROPOSED USE WILL ADVERSELY IMPACT THE GENERAL CHARACTER OF THE SURROUNDING NEIGHBORHOOD. NO ADVERSE IMPACT IS ANTICIPATED. UH, NUMBER TWO, WHETHER THE PROPOSED USE WILL ADVERSELY IMPACT PUBLIC UTILITIES. ANSWER IS NO. INSTALLATION OF A SIGN DOES NOT AFFECT PUBLIC UTILITIES. NUMBER THREE, WHETHER THE PROPOSED USE WILL FACILITATE THE PRESERVATION AND CREATION OF AN ATTRACTIVE AND HARMONIOUS COMMUNITY. UM, THE RESPONSE IS NO, GENERALLY OFF-PREMISES ADVERTISING SIGNS DO NOT FACILITATE THE PRESERVATION AND CREATION OF AN ATTRACTIVE COMMUNITY. THESE SIGNS ARE OFTEN PROFITABLE FOR THE OWNER AND USER OF THE SIGN, AT THE EXPECT OF THE ATTRACTIVENESS OF THE COMMUNITY. UH, NUMBER FOUR, WHETHER THE PROPOSED USE WILL ADVERSELY IMPACT THE ENVIRONMENT OR SCENIC, HISTORIC AND WATERFRONT AREAS, NO ADVERSE IMPACT WILL RESULT. THE PROPERTY IS NOT LOCATED NEAR ANY SUCH AREAS. NUMBER FIVE, WHETHER THE PROPOSED USE WILL ADVERSELY IMPACT PROPERTY RIGHTS AND VALUES ADJOINING, UH, NEARBY PROPERTY OWNERS, UH, NO ADVERSE IMPACT IS ANTICIPATED. NUMBER SIX, WHETHER THE PROPOSED USE WILL PROMOTE THE PUBLIC SAFETY, HEALTH AND GENERAL WELFARE. UH, THE RESPONSE IS THIS, USE WILL NEITHER PROMOTE OR HINDER THE PUBLIC HEALTH, SAFETY AND GENERAL WELFARE. NUMBER SEVEN, WHETHER THE PROPOSED USE IS IN CONFORMANCE WITH GOOD ZONING PRACTICE AND WITH STATE AND LOCAL LAWS, ORDINANCES, AND REGULATIONS. SO THE ANSWER HERE IS, UH, IN THE PAST, THE BZA HAS GRANTED SPECIAL USE PERMITS, [00:05:02] UH, FOR THIS TYPE OF REQUEST. NOW, UM, WE'LL, WE'LL GET INTO GOOD ZONING PRACTICES, UH, LATER IN THE RECOMMENDATION. UH, AND NUMBER EIGHT, WHETHER GRANTING THE SPECIAL USE PERMIT WITH OR WITHOUT CONDITIONS IS JUSTIFIED BY PUBLIC NECESSITY OR CONVENIENCE, THE ANSWER IS, UH, NO. GRANTED, THE SPECIAL USE PERMIT IS NOT JUSTIFIED BY PUBLIC NECESSITY OR CONVENIENCE. AS ALWAYS, UH, NOTICES WERE PROVIDED IN THE NEWSPAPER AND TO ADJACENT OWNERS PER STATE LAW. UH, NO PUBLIC COMMENTS WERE RECEIVED FOR OR AGAINST, UM, STAFF FINDINGS. THERE ARE TWO. THE SIGN WILL BE ADVERTISING SERVICES THAT ARE NOT BEING PERFORMED ON THE PARCEL. THE SIGN IS CONSTRUCTED ON. AND, UH, OFF-PREMISES ADVERTISING SIGNS DO NOT GENERALLY FACILITATE AN ATTRACTIVE OR HARMONIOUS COMMUNITY. AND ALSO, GRANTED THE SPECIAL USE PERMIT IS NOT JUSTIFIED BY PUBLIC NECESSITY OR CONVENIENCE. UM, STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS. THE STAFF RECOMMENDS DENIAL OF THE SPECIAL USE PERMIT, A SPECIAL USE PERMIT PURSUANT TO AKIMA COUNTY CODE SECTION 1 0 6 DASH 1 79, WHICH ALLOWS FOR SIGNS NOT PERMITTED BY, UH, SECTION 1 0 6 DASH 1 78. AND THE REASONING IS THIS SPECIAL USE PERMIT IS FOR OFF-PREMISES ADVERTISING AS OPPOSED TO ONPREM PREMISES ADVERTISING ON-PREMISES ADVERTISING IS LIMITED BY ITS NATURE AND THAT YOU CAN ONLY ADVERTISE ON THE PARCEL THAT THE BUSINESS OPERATES OFF-PREMISES. ADVERTISING IS UNLIMITED IN ITS NATURE AS POTENTIALLY EVERY PARCEL IN THE COUNTY COULD HAVE OFF-PREMISES ADVERTISING. THEREFORE, GRANTING THIS TYPE OF SPECIAL USE PERMIT WOULD LEAD TO THE AVAILABILITY OF ADVERTISING ON EVERY PARCEL IN THE COUNTY. UM, AS AN ADDITION, THERE ARE MANY SIGNS AND BILLBOARDS IN THE COUNTY THAT ARE CURRENTLY VACANT AND ADDING MORE SIGNS, ADD SUPPLIES, ADD SUPPLY WHERE DEMAND IS NOT CURRENTLY PRESENT. HOWEVER, SHOULD THE BCA APPROVE THE SPECIAL USE PERMIT, THE STAFF RECOMMENDS THE FOLLOWING TWO CONDITIONS, CONDITION ONE AND TWO. UH, NUMBER ONE, THE APPLICANT SHALL OBTAIN AN AFTER THE FACT BUILDING PERMIT FROM THE COUNTY'S BUILDING DEPARTMENT. THE APPLICANT SHALL ALSO COMPLY WITH, UH, VDOT AND DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH REGULATIONS. AND NUMBER TWO, THE BUILDING APPLICATION SHALL BE CONSISTENT WITH THIS APPLICATION. HERE IS THE MOTION I CAN ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS OR, UH, MS. ZUBER IS HERE IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR HER. ALRIGHT. DO, UH, ARE THERE OTHER, IS THIS THE ONLY SIGN ON THIS PIECE OF PROPERTY OR ARE THERE OTHER SIGNS ON? THERE ARE, THERE ARE TWO OTHER SIGNS ALREADY ON THIS PROPERTY. OKAY. COULD WERE THEY SHOWN IN THE PICTURE TOO? THEY WERE NOT SHOWN IN THE PICTURES. UM, WE, THERE'S ONE OTHER SIGN. WELL, THERE'S, THERE'S ONE SIGN IN THE FRONT AND THEN THERE'S A SIGN FURTHER BACK. UM, THAT'S NOT ON THE SAME PROPERTY. OKAY. THAT'S NOT ON THE SAME PROPERTY. SO WE HAVE ONE OTHER SIGN, THE ONE OTHER SIGN. UM, OF COURSE, THE FURTHER BACK YOU GO, THE LESS RECORDS WE HAVE. SO I CAN'T CONFIRM THAT THEY GOT A PERMIT OR THEY DIDN'T GET A PERMIT. OKAY. IT'S FOR THE TOWN OF HANCOCK AS THEIR MARKET SIGN. YEAH. UH, OKAY. UH, LET ME ADD, WE'LL GET, HAVE YOU COME UP SOON. OKAY. THAT'S, THAT'S, AND ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OF MR. SEN? THE WHOLE, UH, OFF PREMISES MARKETING, WAS IT TWO YEARS AGO OR LAST YEAR? WE HAD A SIMILAR CASE IN NEW CHURCH. YES. YEAH. TONGUE OF HIGHWAY. YES. THE, UH, SIGNS WERE REQUIRED TO BE, WAS IT 300 FEET APART? I AM NOT, I AM NOT AWARE OF WHAT THE DISTANCES WERE. UM, I CAN RESPOND TO THAT. UM, I GUESS THAT, THEN MY OTHER QUESTION IS HOW DOES THIS DIFFER IN THE SENSE OF ALL FIRMS MARKETING? UH, I'M JUST INTERESTED TO HEAR THE DIFFERENCE IN, UH, THE, THE, UH, EXCUSE ME. UM, YOUR FIRST QUESTION, THE 300 FEET, THAT'S A VDOT REQUIREMENT ON ROUTE 13. OKAY. THAT, THAT THEY REQUIRE BILLBOARD TO BE A CERTAIN DISTANCE APART FROM ONE ANOTHER. IS THAT THE SAME FOR, I, I AM NOT CERTAIN, BUT I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT THEY HAVE THE SAME REQUIREMENTS OFF OF ROUTE 13, UH, FOR THE DISTANCE BETWEEN SIGNS. SURE. I HAVE A COMMENT OR A QUESTION. OKAY. BACK SOME TIME AGO, A FEW YEARS AGO, I REMEMBER THAT OFF-PREM SIGNS WERE ONLY ALLOWED BY SPECIAL USE PERMIT IN A GENERAL BUSINESS ZONING INDUSTRY. MM-HMM . AND THAT'S WHAT THIS IS. YES. I ALSO REMEMBER THAT THE STATE WOULD NOT ALLOW OFF-PREMISE SIGNS IN AG AND RESIDENTIAL. IS THAT STILL IN EFFECT? THAT [00:10:01] THAT WOULD PROBABLY DEPEND ON WHAT VDOT WOULD SAY. WHERE RIGHT. I, MY, I REMEMBER SOMETHING ABOUT THAT, THAT OFF-PREMISE SIGNS COULD NOT BE PLACED IN AG OR, OR RESIDENTIAL. I DON'T KNOW IF THAT STILL STANDS OR NOT, BUT I, I'M NOT SURE ABOUT THE VDOT PART OF IT. WHAT I WILL SAY IS, UM, OFF PREMISES SIGNS ARE ALLOWED BY COUNTY ORDINANCE, I BELIEVE, EVERYWHERE BUT RESIDENTIAL, AND I'D HAVE TO LOOK, I GOT IT RIGHT HERE. OKAY. I'LL SAY, AS FAR AS VDOT IS CONCERNED, UM, THEY REQUIRE, THEY GO AROUND AND LOOK AT NEW SIGNS, AND THEN THEY REQUIRE THE PERSON WITH ANY NEW SIGN TO THEN PROVE THAT, THAT, THAT THEY HAVE, UH, RECEIVED COUNTY APPROVAL FOR THAT SIGN. UM, THAT'S MY, MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT BDOT IS LOOKING TO THE COUNTY TO, TO PROVIDE THE PROOF OF WHETHER WE'VE APPROVED IT OR NOT. OR LOOKING, I'M SORRY, LOOKING TO THE OWNER OF THE SIGN AS TO WHETHER THEY'VE GOT COUNTY APPROVAL OR OR TOWN APPROVAL. YES. OKAY. BUT THIS PARCEL IS OWNED BUSINESS. YES. OKAY. MAYBE IT'S CHANGED OR SOMETHING. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. MS. ZIMBER, WOULD YOU LIKE TO COME FORWARD? SURE. AND RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND. OKAY. STATE YOUR NAME. ANDREA ZUBER. AND DO YOU SWEAR TO TELL THE WHOLE TRUTH TO HELP YOU GOD? YES, I DO. OKAY. ALRIGHT. TELL US. WELL, UM, I HAD MY BROTHER, THAT'S MY BROTHER-IN-LAW, AND SISTER-IN-LAW WHO OWNED THIS PROPERTY. UM, AND I SAID, HEY, CAN I PUT A SIGN KNOWING THAT IT WAS GENERAL BUSINESS? AND HE SAID, SURE. HE SAYS, ANAN, THE TOWN OF ONANCOCK HAS A SIGN THERE AS WELL FOR THEIR, THEIR MARKET. AND I SAID, OKAY. ALRIGHT, GREAT. SO, UM, I THINK IT'S PROBABLY BEEN ALMOST TWO YEARS. THE SIGN HAS BEEN THERE. UH, DIDN'T, NO, NOBODY SAID ANYTHING. I TALKED, THE PERSON WHO PUT THE SIGN UP DIDN'T RAISE RED FLAGS AND SAY, YOU NEED TO DO THIS, THAT, BLAH, WHATEVER, IGNORANCE FROM MY, ON MY PART, YOU KNOW, I PROBABLY SHOULD HAVE GONE A STEP FURTHER. UM, DURING, BEFORE THE ELECTION, UM, SOMEBODY PUT A NASTY SIGN ON THE, ON HIS PROPERTY, UH, WITH, UM, IT WAS, UH, UH, IT WAS NOT HIM THAT PUT THE SIGN NO. OR WAS SOMEBODY ELSE. IT WAS SOMEBODY ELSE THAT HE ALLOWED TO PUT A SIGN UP THERE. AND IT WAS, IT WAS SHOWING TRUMP PEEING ON KAMALA HARRIS' HEAD . OKAY. AND IT WAS RIGHT NEXT TO MY SIGN. WELL, I BLEW A GASKET. I WAS LIKE, YOU KNOW, THIS IS VERY TASTELESS. DON'T PUT THAT NEXT TO MY SIGN. AND I WAS APPALLED. WELL, PEOPLE, I GUESS SOME PEOPLE HEARD ABOUT IT. AND NEXT THING I KNOW, I'M GETTING A PHONE CALL FROM VDOT IN RICHMOND SAYING, YOU WERE NOT IN OR IN, IN COMPLIANCE, AND YOU'VE NOT DONE THIS AND THIS. I WAS LIKE, OH, GEE. WAS, I'M SORRY. I SAID, YOU KNOW WHO, WHO CALLED? YOU KNOW WHO WHO SAID THIS? HE SAID, I'M SORRY. IT WAS AN ANONYMOUS PERSON. SO, YOU KNOW, THAT, THAT KIND OF STRUCK ME REALLY BAD. SO THAT'S WHERE THIS ALL BEGAN. AND IN THEORY, THAT WASN'T AGAINST YOUR SIGN? THAT WAS AGAINST ME. IT WAS, IT WAS REALLY AGAINST ME. THE, THE SIGN, WELL, THE CALL TO VDOT WAS AGAINST ME FOR, FOR BEING UPSET. 'CAUSE I KIND OF SAID, THIS IS DISGUSTING. THE SIGN NEEDS TO COME DOWN, , WHATEVER. SO THIS PERSON TOOK IT UPON THEMSELVES TO CALL VDOT IN RICHMOND. AND THEN THEY CALLED ME AND SAID, YOU KNOW, YOU'VE GOT SUCH AND SUCH AMOUNT OF DAYS TO GET IT DOWN. YOU'RE GONNA GET FINED $250 A DAY AT THIS POINT IN TIME IF YOU DON'T DO WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE. WELL, IN THE MEANTIME, I HAD TALKED TO BUILDING AND ZONING. NOBODY'S GOT PERMITS, UHHUH NOBODY UP AND DOWN THAT STRIP. OKAY. DOWN FAIRGROUNDS ROAD. NONE OF THEM HAVE HAD TO DO WHAT I'VE HAD TO DO BECAUSE NOBODY HAS, HAS TALKED TO, TO, UH, NOBODY HAD A PROBLEM, BUT THEY HAD A PROBLEM WITH ME BECAUSE I WAS UPSET ABOUT THIS, THIS WHOLE NASTY SIGN NEXT TO MINE. SO THAT'S, THAT'S WHERE WE'RE AT. UM, BUT THE NASTY SIGN CAME DOWN. THE NASTY SIGN CAME DOWN ABOUT 10 DAYS AFTER THE ELECTION, UHHUH . BUT IT STAYED UP THERE FOR A GOOD THREE WEEKS. AND PEOPLE WERE TOOTING THE HORN. HE HAD LIGHTS AND THIS AND THAT. AND I MEAN, IT WAS A SPECTACLE. AND ALLS I LOOK ABOUT WHEN I DROVE BY [00:15:01] IT, I SEE MY SIGN AND IT LOOKS LIKE HE'S URINATING ON MY HEAD. . IT WAS, IT WAS VERY TASTELESS. YEAH. UM, AND THAT'S WHERE EVERYTHING WENT DOWNHILL. SO I ASSUME THAT NOW YOUR BROTHER-IN-LAW KNOWS THAT HE CAN'T JUST SAY, YES, YOU COULD PUT A SIGN. YES. OH, YES. OH, YES. AND I'VE HAD A CONVERSATION WITH, WITH LIKE FLETCHER FOSKEY AT, AT, UM, YOU KNOW, WITH THE TOWN OF OWN AN C**K. I SAID, FLETCHER, HAVE YOU GOT A PERMIT? NO, I DON'T HAVE THAT. AM I SUPPOSED TO HAVE, ARE WE SUPPOSED TO HAVE ONE? HE SAYS, I SAID, BEWARE. I SAID, YOU KNOW, JUST PUTTING IT OUT THERE, YOU KNOW, THEY CAME AFTER ME. SO, AND, YOU KNOW, I DIDN'T WANNA RAISE RED FLAGS FOR SOME OF THESE BUSINESSES THAT ARE HARDWORKING AND FOR THE TOWN AND THIS AND THAT, AND I DON'T WANT TO. BUT, UM, YOU KNOW, THE WAY THIS WHOLE THING WENT DOWN WAS JUST VERY UPSETTING. AND I, IF I'D KNOWN, I WOULD'VE DONE IT. I'VE ALREADY PAID EVERYTHING I NEEDED TO PAY, YOU KNOW, FOR THE COUNTY. AND YOU LIVE IN AN C**K? I LIVE IN ONLY OKAY. YEAH. ON THE WAY BACK AND FORTH. YEAH. AND IT'S ON THE WAY TO MY OFFICE. THAT SIGN IS SO, UM, ANYHOW, BUT, UH, YEAH, I MEAN, THAT'S, THAT'S THE STORY. IT'S A, A SIX BY 10 SIGN. I THINK IT'S TASTEFUL, YOU KNOW, UH, IT'S, IT'S ON A CORNER ON THE CORNER LOT THERE. IT'S NOT LIKE IT'S IN THE MIDDLE OF A SUBDIVISION. UH, IT'S ALL FARMLAND OR THAT, THAT STRIP OF LAND, THE AIRPORT STRIP, UH, RIGHT BEHIND THERE. SO, YOU KNOW. YEAH. OKAY. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? ALL RIGHT. UH, WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS? UM, IF, IF I COULD HAVE A FEW SECONDS. SURE. UM, JUST WANTED TO, TO CLARIFY A FEW THINGS. UM, BDOT DOES, UH, I'M NOT SURE HOW ROUTINE IT IS, BUT THEY DO DRIVE AROUND THE COUNTY LOOKING FOR NEW SIGNS. AND IF, UH, THEY DO SEE A NEW SIGN ON A PUBLIC ROADWAY, UH, THEY DO REQUIRE THE SIGN OWNER TO, UH, COME INTO ZONING TO GET DOCUMENTATION FROM US TO PROVE THAT IT WAS PUT UP IN A LAWFUL MANNER WITH THE ZONING ORDINANCE. I DO NOT KNOW. THEY WERE, THEY DO, THEY DO NOW. I, BECAUSE I CALLED THEM, I SAID, OH, THEY'VE DONE IT. THEY'VE DONE IT FOR A LONG TIME. I MEAN, I MEAN, I MEAN, THIS ISSUE HAS COME UP BEFORE WITH PEOPLE WHO HAVE PUT UP SIGNS AND, AND, AND THEY COME TO OUR, UM, AND, AND THEY COME AND SAY, WE NEED PROOF TO SHOW THAT, THAT IT WAS PUT UP IN A LAWFUL WAY. AND THEN, UH, WE, UH, IT, IT HAD THIS SITU THAT SITUATION OUT IN NORTHAMPTON A NUMBER OF TIMES WHERE PEOPLE WOULD COME INTO THE OFFICE ONCE THEY GOT THE LETTER FROM DDOT. UM, OF COURSE, I DON'T KNOW HOW THIS ONE ORIGINATED, BUT IT IS SOMETHING THEY DO FAIRLY ROUTINELY. OKAY. UM, THE, UH, AND, AND, AND WE DON'T NEED TO PICK ON DECEMBER HERE, BUT IT, YOU KNOW, JUST THE GENERAL POINT IS THAT, UM, IT, IT, OUR POSITION IS, IS THAT, YOU KNOW, IF THERE, THERE'S NO LOGICAL END TO OFF PREMISES SIGNS IS, IS JUST THE GENERAL POINT THAT, UH, MR. JONES MADE BEFORE. UM, AND, UH, IT, IT'S SOMEWHAT UNLIMITED IN THE ZONING CODE. SO THAT'S, THAT'S OUR POSITION. YEAH. AND YOUR SIGN HAS BEEN UP THERE FOR COUPLE YEARS? COUPLE YEARS. OH, AND I'M SORRY, ONE FINAL THING. UM, WE DO, AND WE HAVE LOOKED AT HISTORICAL AERIALS TO DETERMINE HOW LONG SIGNS HAVE BEEN THERE. WHEN WE SEE IF, IF WE SEE A NEW SIGN, WE WILL GO AND CITE THAT SIGN FOR A VIOLATION. BUT WE ARE SOMEWHAT HAMPERED WHEN WE SEE THE SIGNS HAVE BEEN THERE 10, 15 YEARS. UM, WE REALLY HAVE VERY LITTLE WAY OF, UH, SHOWING THEY DID NOT GET A PERMIT AT THAT TIME, OR IF THEY EVEN NEEDED A PERMIT AT THAT TIME. WELL, I, I CAN SEE THE, UH, YOU KNOW, IT, IT DOES GOING UP AND DOWN ROUTE 13, THERE ARE CERTAIN AREAS, BUT LIKE GOING INTO, UH, NORTH HAMPTON COUNTY, THERE'S A STRING OF OFF, OFF PREMISE SIGNS AND EVERYTHING. SO I COULD SEE THE, THE CASE FOR BEING WARY ABOUT HAVING OFF PREMISE SIGNS. BUT, UH, I DON'T KNOW. WHAT IS YOUR THOUGHTS ABOUT, UH, UH, THIS CASE THAT HAS BEEN THERE FOR, UH, SEVERAL YEARS? GRACIE? I RECALL MANY OFF-PREMISE SIGNS BEING APPROVED BY THE BZA IN A BUSINESS ZONING [00:20:01] INDUSTRY DOWN THROUGH THE YEARS. YOUR THOUGHTS, MR. HOLLAND? I DON'T KNOW. I'M, I'M THINKING IT THROUGH HERE. MR. MILLER, YOU HAVE ANY THOUGHTS? UH, IT APPEARS THAT WE ARE ALMOST IN KIND OF, IT'S A GRAY AREA, AND I SEE THE COUNTY'S POSITION WITH TRYING TO GET SOME CONTROL, SO WE JUST AREN'T PUTTING SIGNS UP. UH, BUT IF THIS SIGN HAS ALREADY BEEN HERE FOR TWO YEARS, UH, BUT WHAT WERE THE CODES BACK TWO YEARS AGO? WHAT I, I CAN CHECK. I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT THE SIGNED ORDINANCE HAS BEEN AMENDED, BUT IT WOULD SAY AT THE BOTTOM OF THE, UH, I DO NOT BELIEVE THE SIGNED ORDINANCE HAS BEEN AMENDED RECENTLY, UH, MEANING WITHIN THE LAST SEVERAL, SEVERAL YEARS, MR. PAMED LEE, PAM, BUT DEPUTY COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR COMMUNITY AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, UM, THE STAFF BROUGHT THIS TO ME WANTING TO, YOU KNOW, WANTING TO GET SOME INPUT, SOME INPUT, YOU KNOW, AT, AT, UH, YOU KNOW, AT MY LEVEL. UH, I WAS ACTUALLY ON THE CASE FOR THE TWO, UH, FOR THE APPLICANT LAST YEAR IN 2024, WHO HAD REQUESTED MULTIPLE SIGNS IN BELLHAVEN AND THEN MULTIPLE SIGNS UP IN, UH, IN NEW CHURCH. AND AGAIN, THIS WAS HEARD BY THIS BODY LAST YEAR, UH, AS THE QUOTE UNQUOTE CASE PLANNER WHO WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR THAT, UH, UH, FOR THAT CASE, I RECOMMENDED DENIAL OF THOSE SIGNS. BUT THE BZA WENT AHEAD AND, UH, AND APPROVED A, THEY APPROVED SIGNS, BUT A LESSER AMOUNT OF SIGNS AS I WRITE UP AND DOWN ROUTE 13, UH, UH, THE, THE, THE POINT OF AN OVERABUNDANCE OF OFF-PREMISES SIGNS IS READILY APPARENT. WE HAVE SEVERAL VACANT OR BLANK SIGNS, AND WE EVEN HAVE SOME SIGNS THAT ARE NOT PROPERLY MAINTAINED. THE, THE, THE, THE CONCERN THAT STAFF HAS WITH REGARDS TO, UH, HAVING AN OVER RESTRICTIVE SIGN ORDINANCE FOR ON-PREMISE SIGNS AND HAVING VERY LITTLE CONTROL OF SIGNS THAT ARE OFF PREMISE TO USE, UM, UH, UH, MR. MILLER'S OR REVEREND MILLER'S TERM, EXERCISING SOME, SOME PROPER CONTROL OVER THESE, I THINK IS, IS ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY THAT THE BZA CONTINUE TO LOOK AT IT IN TERMS OF WHAT THE, YOU KNOW, WHAT THE IMPACT IS TO THE COMMUNITY. BUT THEN ALSO, WHEN WE'RE LOOKING AT FUTURE LAND USE DESIGNATIONS, PARTICULARLY IN THE CENTRAL AKAMAK AREA, OF COURSE, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THIS, THIS, UH, UH, THIS AREA BETWEEN THE TOWN OF ONLY AND THE TOWN OF C**K THAT IS A PRIMARY GATEWAY TO, UH, TO THE TOWN OF C**K AND TO CONTINUE TO, UH, UM, CLUTTER UP THESE, THESE, UH, RIGHTS OF WAY, OR THESE, THESE, UH, GATEWAYS, I THINK IS, IS GOING TO BE DIFFICULT TO, UH, TO RETROACTIVELY SAY, OKAY, THIS AREA'S PRIMED FOR DEVELOPMENT AND IT'S PRIMED FOR A CERTAIN TYPE OF DEVELOPMENT, YET WE STILL HAVE THESE OFF-PREMISES SIGNS. UH, THERE'S NOT A WHOLE LOT THAT WE CAN DO ABOUT THE SIGNS ON ROUTE 13 AT THIS POINT. UH, YOU KNOW, FROM THE CASE LAST YEAR, THEY WERE APPROVED, THEY HAVE BEEN ERECTED, OR THEY HAVE BEEN INSTALLED, BUT THEY'RE STILL VACANT. SO THE STAFF HAS GOT A QUESTION, IF THE BZA IS GONNA CONTINUE TO, UH, TO APPROVE OFF-PREMISES SIGNS, AND THEY'RE NOT EVEN BEING USED, I KNOW THAT THIS IS A DIFFERENT CASE, THEN, UH, THEN I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING THAT THE BZA SHOULD, UH, SHOULD, SHOULD KEEP IN MIND AS IT MOVES FORWARD WITH ITS DECISIONS. UH, THIS AREA, AGAIN, IS ZONED VILLAGE DEVELOP, OR NOT ZONED, IT'S, UH, IT'S MULTIPLE ZONING THROUGHOUT, BUT THE FUTURE OF LAND USE DESIGNATION. AND AGAIN, THAT IS A, THAT IS A COMPREHENSIVE PLANNING DESIGNATION FOR, FOR, FOR WHAT THE, WHAT [00:25:01] THE ENVISIONED FUTURE OF THAT AREA IS, IS VILLAGE DEVELOPMENT, WHICH IS A HIGHER DENSITY. UM, I MADE THIS POINT LAST YEAR WITH THE SIGNS IN BELLHAVEN THAT THE LOCATION WAS ALSO VILLAGE DEVELOPMENT, BUT THE BZA ELECTED TO GO AHEAD AND, AND APPROVE THE SIGNS. IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A HIGHER DENSITY TYPE OF DEVELOPMENT, THEN I WOULD, UH, CHALLENGE THE BZA TO, UH, TO TAKE A LOOK AT WHETHER OR NOT AN OFF-PREMISES SIGN IS APPROPRIATE FOR WHAT, UH, WHAT WILL EVENTUALLY BE A HIGHER DENSITY AREA ALSO ACROSS FROM THE HOSPITAL. OKAY. I THINK, UH, I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT. I THINK WE HAVE TO BE CAREFUL ABOUT, UH, UH, ESPECIALLY IN THE FUTURE, WHAT WE DO AND HOW WE DO IT AND EVERYTHING. MM-HMM . UH, I DON'T KNOW. MY FEELING IS THAT IT'S BEEN THERE FOR SEVERAL YEARS. IT'S, IT'S, IT'S, UH, THERE ARE TWO SIGNS THERE, WHICH IS NOT AN OVERABUNDANCE. RIGHT. UH, THE, THE SIGN HAS, HAS NOT, UH, BEEN A PROBLEM UNTIL OF LATE, WHICH I, I GUESS IT'S GOOD THAT THE PROBLEM CAME UP, BECAUSE THEN WE COULD SEE THAT SOMETHING DOES HAVE TO BE DONE MM-HMM . BUT, UM, I DON'T KNOW, UH, ABOUT YOU. ALL MY FEELING IS SINCE IT'S, IT'S BEEN THERE WITH, WITH, FOR, FOR THE PAST COUPLE YEARS, WITH NO PROBLEMS AT ALL. I THINK WE DO HAVE TO BE MORE CAREFUL IN THE FUTURE, BUT SINCE IT'S KIND OF AN AFTER THE FACT THING, I THINK IT, IT THROWS A DIFFERENT LIGHT ON EVERYTHING. SO I THINK WE'VE GOTTA BE PRETTY CAREFUL. I MEAN, YOU START TRYING TO DRAW A LINE IN THE SAND. I MEAN, EVENTUALLY WE'RE GONNA BE TALKING ABOUT POLITICAL SIGNS, LIKE THE CANDIDATES AND THEIR SIGNS WHEN THEY'RE RUNNING FOR REELECTION. I MEAN, THEY KEEP GETTING BIGGER AND BIGGER EVERY YEAR. YOU COULD BE TALKING ABOUT FOUR BY EIGHT, YOU'RE GONNA BE, I DON'T KNOW, WE'RE JUST, THAT'S, THAT'S CORRECT. SO POLITICAL, UH, POLITICAL SIGNS AND, UM, AND, UH, AND THAT TYPE OF QUOTE UNQUOTE LANGUAGE IS, UH, IT, IT HAS A DIFFERENT STANDARD THAN, THAN ADVERTISING. WHAT THIS IS, IS ADVERTISING. OKAY. UH, WHAT MS. EMBER WAS, WAS DISCUSSING ABOUT THE, ABOUT THE POLITICAL SIGN. THERE'S VERY LITTLE THAT WE CAN SAY ABOUT THE CONTENT OF A, OF A, OF A, OF A SIGN OR A MESSAGE. BUT WE CAN, WITHOUT A DOUBT, CONTROL THE SIZE, LOCATION, AND TIMING. OKAY. AND, AND FROM THE COUNTY STANDPOINT, UH, CAN, CAN WE MAKE A RECOMMENDATION THAT A FUTURE OFF PREMISE SIGNED REQUESTS HAVE MORE, UH, RESTRICTIONS LISTED WITH IT FOR MORE PARAMETERS TO HOW IT SHOULD BE? SO IF WE, SORRY, UH, IF, IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE CONDITIONS AS SPECIAL USE PERMITS COME BEFORE THE, UH, COME BEFORE THE BZA, THEN, UH, YOU KNOW, WE CAN CERTAINLY DRAFT A MORE, UH, UH, COMPREHENSIVE LIST OF CONDITIONS. AS I WAS THINKING ABOUT THIS CASE AND WHAT THE FUTURE HOLDS SPECIFICALLY FOR THAT STRETCH OF MARKET STREET, AGAIN, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A VILLAGE DEVELOPMENT AREA, LAND U, FUTURE LAND USE DESIGNATION, WHICH HAS ALREADY STARTED TO, UH, WHICH HAS ALREADY STARTED TO COME TO FRUITION WITH THE COASTAL SQUARE AND RESIDENCES, UH, UH, PROJECT. THEY'RE GOING THROUGH A PRELIMINARY PLAT, UH, A PRELIMINARY PLAT PROCESS WITH THE PLANNING COMMISSION RIGHT NOW. AND WHAT THAT MEANS IS THE AREA IS DEVELOPING IN A, IN A, UM, UH, IN A HIGHER DENSITY MANNER, IN A, UH, WHAT I WOULD CONSIDER, UM, UH, A HIGHER QUALITY MANNER THAN WHAT WE MIGHT BE ACCUSTOMED TO IN, IN AKIMA COUNTY AS WELL. SO YOU DO HAVE THAT LITTLE STRETCH OF MARKET STREET THAT IS, UH, THAT IS UNDER OUR JURISDICTION. BUT FOR, FOR THIS CASE HERE, IF YOU, IF YOU WANTED TO, UH, I GUESS ENSURE THE APPROPRIATENESS OF, OF, OF THE SIGN NOW, BUT YOU COULD POSSIBLY ADD A THIRD CONDITION THAT SAYS, SHOULD THE, SHOULD THE, YOU KNOW, SHOULD THAT AREA BE DEVELOPED FOR, YOU KNOW, THE AREA THAT'S FRONTING ON MARKET STREET, IF THAT IS TO BE DEVELOPED IN A HIGHER DENSITY OR REALLY ANY, ANY FASHION THAT THE SIGN SHOULD COME DOWN AT THAT TIME AND, AND MAKE THAT A CONDITION TODAY. AND THAT WAY IF WE DO GET APPLICATIONS, THEN WE CAN, THEN WE CAN, UM, YOU KNOW, WORK WITH THAT. WE CAN WORK WITH THAT AND SAY, YOU KNOW, THE SIGNS COULD COME DOWN THEN, BUT TO HAVE TWO YEARS OF, UH, TO HAVE TWO YEARS OF UNPERMITTED, UH, UH, UNPERMITTED EXPOSURE, I THINK IS, UH, YOU KNOW, SHE'S HAD TWO FREE YEARS, [00:30:01] BASICALLY, YOU KNOW, WITHOUT A PERMIT. THAT CONCLUDES MY REMARKS. I JUST WANTED TO ADD THAT PERSPECTIVE. OKAY. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, MADAM CHAIR. I HAD THOUGHT ABOUT MAYBE A TIME LIMIT ON THIS SIGN, SO THAT IF DEVELOPMENT BEGAN, IN OTHER WORDS, UH, TEMPORARY, UH, UH, THREE YEARS OR WHATEVER MM-HMM . SO THAT IF DEVELOPMENT BEGAN, THEN SHE WOULD HAVE TO COME BACK AND, YOU KNOW, SEEK APPROVAL. YOU KNOW, AGAIN, OH, YEAH. I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S JUST A THOUGHT. UM, IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE HAVE DONE WITH, WITH RVS IN THE PAST, KIND OF A SIMILAR SITUATION WHERE WELL, IN THAT, IN THAT THERE'S A TIME LIMIT. AND IF THEY WANTED TO RIGHT. IF THEY WANTED TO KEEP LIVING IN THERE, THEY'D HAVE TO COME BACK. YEAH. YEAH. SO WE COULD MAKE THAT LIKE A PART OF A SPECIAL, THE, UH, CONDITION. IT SEEMS LIKE TOO MUCH GRAY AREA TO ME. I MEAN, THE RV DEAL, IT'S CONDITIONAL UPON THE PROGRESS OF YOUR END PROPERTY, YOUR END PROJECT, BUT TO MAKE IT CONDITIONAL ON SOMEBODY ELSE'S DEVELOPMENT PLANS OF THEIR PROPERTY, IT SEEMS, COULD YOU PUT THE RECOMMENDATIONS BACK UP AGAIN? YEAH. AND SO THAT, THAT PART BY THE APPLICANT SHALL ALSO COMPLY WITH, UH, DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION AND VIRGINIA DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH REGULATIONS. DO WE HAVE ANY IDEA WHAT THEIR REQUIREMENTS ARE? USUALLY WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THESE SIGNED PERMITS GO OUT, THEY ALSO GO OUT TO STATE AGENCIES FOR THEIR COMMENTS AND REVIEWS. UM, I AM NOT AWARE OF WHAT THEIR REGULATIONS ARE. ONE OF THEIR, ONE OF THEIR REGULATIONS IS THAT, UM, THERE'S, THERE'S SOMETHING THAT GETS PRINTED OUT THAT MAKES SURE THAT THEY'VE GOTTEN CLEARANCE FROM US, AND THAT, THAT FORM GOES BACK TO VDOT AT THE END. AND JUST TO ADD, I MEAN, THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH'S REGULATIONS ARE A LITTLE LESS STRICT. THERE'S NO, UM, IF THERE IS A SEPTIC AND WELL ON THIS PROPERTY, THEY JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THE SIGN'S NOT BUILT ON IT. YEAH. AND I, I BELIEVE IN THIS CIRCUMSTANCE, VI I WOULD ONLY BE LOOKING AT, UH, OR, OR MAKING SURE IT'S A, THE SUFFICIENT DISTANCE FROM THE ROADWAY. OKAY. I DON'T BELIEVE THEY DON'T HAVE ANY OTHER REGULATION ON THIS OR, OR RULE AS TO THIS. SO, MR. HOLLAND, WHAT WOULD YOU SUGGEST? ? I DON'T KNOW. IT'S, UH, INTERESTING SITUATION BEING AT THE SIGNS. ARE YOU IN POLICE? UM, I'M READY TO MAKE A MOTION THAT WE DENY THIS PERMIT. IF WE WANT TO GET THE RECOMMENDATION UP THERE. I'LL READ IT. BUT CAN, UH, ONE MORE QUESTION. IF WE DENY THIS SPECIAL USE PERMIT, COULD THEY APPLY IN THE FUTURE FOR ANOTHER CASE? UM, I BELIEVE THERE'S A YEAR WHERE, UM, AND PAUL WOULD KNOW THIS, UH, MR. WATS WOULD KNOW THIS BETTER THAN I DO, BUT I BELIEVE THERE'S A YEAR PERIOD WHERE YOU CAN'T COME BACK TO THE PCA, UH, FOR ANY OTHER SITUATION, UH, FOR THIS SPECIFIC, YOU, YOU CAN'T MAKE THE SAME REQUEST FOR, FOR THE YEAR THAT TIME, BUT YOU CAN APPEAL OUR DECISION, RIGHT? YES. YEAH, ABSOLUTELY. WELL, MR. MILLER RIVER MILLER, WHAT DO YOU THINK? WELL, WE ALL, WE'VE GOT A THIRD OPTION. WE CAN DEFER IT FOR ANOTHER MONTH, BUT I MEAN, IT, I THINK WE NEED TO TEST THE WATER TO KIND OF FIGURE OUT WHERE WE'RE AT. . [00:35:10] OH, LEE PAM, A DEPUTY COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR, UH, I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, IN, IN ORDER TO SATISFY THE DESIRE TO HAVE THE SIGN THERE, UH, SINCE IT HAS BEEN THERE FOR TWO YEARS, ONE COMPROMISE MIGHT BE TO, TO COME UP WITH A THIRD CONDITION, SAYING THAT YOU CAN CONTINUE TO HAVE THE SIGN THERE SPECIAL USE PERMIT, BUT UPON APPLICATION OF A FUTURE SUBDIVISION REZONING, CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR HIGHER DENSITY, OR FOR VILLAGE DEVELOPMENT AREA TYPE DEVELOPMENT, THAT THE SIGN COULD COME DOWN AT THAT TIME. AND THAT WOULD ALLOW HER TO CONTINUE TO HAVE THE EXPOSURE THAT, UH, THAT SHE DESIRES WHILE, YOU KNOW, ENSURING THAT AT SOME POINT IN THE FUTURE, AND THIS SHOULD ALSO, THE CONDITION SHOULD ALSO APPLY TO THE OTHER, TO THE OTHER SIGN, THE OTHER UNPERMITTED SIGN. SO WE'RE REALLY TALKING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, UH, UH, YOU KNOW, TO, TO APPLY THAT CONDITION FAIRLY TO ALL THE, YOU KNOW, TO TO, TO ALL OF THE, UH, YOU KNOW, UH, OFFENDING SIGNS, IF YOU WILL, FOR LACK OF A BETTER TERM. BUT I, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, TO TO SATISFY THE, UH, TO, TO SATISFY THE DESIRE WHILE KEEPING IN, WHILE KEEPING IN, IN, UH, UM, UH, IN STEP WITH WHAT WILL EVENTUALLY BE A HIGHER DENSITY AREA. I WOULD RECOMMEND THAT YOU DO A THIRD CONDITION. IF IT'S, IF IT'S, IF IT'S SUITS THE BZA, I LIKE THAT, THAT SOUND LIKE A GOOD COMPANY. OKAY. I JUST STRUGGLE TO COMPREHEND, LIKE HOW YOU'RE GONNA HAVE A CONDITION, THIS ONE PERSON'S SIGN IS CONDITION CONDITIONAL. UM, THEY'RE GONNA HAVE TO COME IN HERE AND REAPPLY. IF SOMEBODY THAT'S WANTS TO PUT A HIGH DENSITY DEVELOPMENT, I JUST CAN'T COMPREHEND THAT. UH, IT WOULD NOT BE AN APP, IT WOULDN'T BE A SUBSEQUENT APPLICATION TO, TO MAINTAIN THE SIGN. THE CONDITION WOULD BE TO REMOVE THE SIGN UPON, UH, UPON THE APPROVAL OF A DEVELOPMENT ON THAT PROPERTY OR ALONG THAT STRETCH. I'M NOT SAYING THAT THEY WOULD. SO YOU'RE GONNA, THEY WOULD, THEY WOULDN'T HAVE TO COME BACK IN THAT THEY WOULDN'T HAVE TO COME BACK IN IF THE SIGN WOULD JUST GO AWAY AT THAT TIME. THEY WOULD JUST BE NOTIFIED THAT THE SIGN HAS TO BE REMOVED. YES, MA'AM. I DON'T, I DON'T SEE HOW THAT'S, I JUST STRUGGLE WITH THAT. OKAY. SO THAT, THAT WOULD BE, NOT JUST FOR THAT SIGN, THOUGH, BUT FOR ALL THE OTHER SIGNS THAT ARE ON THAT, ON THAT, ON THAT PIECE. YEAH. RIGHT. BECAUSE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THIS BECAUSE THE SPECIAL USE PERMIT IS LIMITED TO THIS ONE PROPERTY, I DO ACKNOWLEDGE AND RECOGNIZE THAT THERE ARE OTHER MOST LIKELY UN UNPERMITTED SIGNS ALONG THAT STRETCH OF, UH, UH, OF MARKET STREET. BUT, UH, YOU KNOW, AS, AS WE DID MENTION, WE, WE DO HAVE TO START SOMEWHERE. PART OF THAT WOULD ALSO BE, UH, EVEN THOUGH WE, WE TEND TO RESIST, UH, ENFORCEMENT SWEEPS TO DO WHAT VDOT DOES AND TO GO AROUND AND START AND, AND START TAKING NOTE OF, OF, UH, OF THESE SIGNS, I THINK THAT, UH, UH, FOR THIS PARTICULAR STRETCH OF ROAD IS, IS IMPORTANT TO AKIMA COUNTY. MM-HMM . YOU KNOW, BEING A GATEWAY INTO ONE OF THE PREMIER TOWNS ON THE EASTERN SHORE. OKAY. I'M READY. OKAY. I MOVE. THE MACK COUNTY BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS APPROVES SU SE 0 0 0 0 1 8 DASH 2 2 5, A SPECIAL USE PERMIT PURSUANT TO MACK COUNTY CODE 1 0 6 DASH 1 79, WHICH ALLOWS FOR SIGNS NOT PERMITTED BY SECTION 1 0 6 DASH 1 78 FOR TAX MAP NUMBER 90 3D DASH FOUR DASH 35, WITH THREE CONDITIONS RECOMMENDED BY STAFF ONE, THE APPLICANT SHALL OBTAIN THE, UH, THE AFTER FACT BUILDING PERMIT FOR THE COUNTY'S FROM THE COUNTY BUILDING DEPARTMENT. THE APPLICANT SHALL ALSO COMPLY WITH VIRGINIA DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION AND THE VIRGINIA DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH REGULATIONS. NUMBER TWO, THE BUILDING APPLICATION SHALL BE CONSISTENT WITH THIS APPLICATION. AND NUMBER THREE IS WHAT MR. PAM SAID ABOUT FUTURE DEVELOPMENT. IF, IF THAT CHANGES, THEN THAT SIGN HAS TO BE REMOVED. IF I CAN WORDSMITH THAT FOR YOU JUST A LITTLE BIT. THANK YOU. ? YES, MA'AM. ? UM, UH, I'D SAY THAT UPON APPROVAL OF, UH, ACTUALLY, CAN I GET A PIECE OF, I'M, I'M GONNA WRITE IT OUT FIRST AND THEN I'M GONNA, ALRIGHT, THANKS. SORRY. CAN I ASK THE, UH, MS HOW SHE FEELS ABOUT THE THIRD CONDITION, PROPOSED CONDITION? I'M SORRY? HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT [00:40:01] THE THIRD PROPOSED? OH, THAT, THAT, THAT'S FINE. OKAY. THAT'S GONNA BE A LONG, LONG TIME BEFORE THAT WILL HAPPEN, , SO THAT, THAT'S, I'LL BE DEAD BY THAT, SO THAT'S FINE. NEVER KNOW THESE DAYS, . I KNOW WHAT DRIVES, I MEAN, IT'S BUSINESS DISTRICT. THANK YOU. SURE. AND THE THIRD CONDITION IS UPON APPROVAL OF A RESIDENTIAL OR COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENT, THE APPLICANT, UPON APPROVAL OF A RESIDENTIAL OR COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENT APPLICATION, APPLICATION FOR PARCEL 90 3D DASH FOUR DASH 35, ALL OFF PREMISE SIGNS SHALL BE REMOVED. ANY MOTION HAS BEEN MADE. DO I HEAR A SECOND? SECOND. OKAY. UH, ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. OKAY. IT'S UNANIMOUS. YOU ARE APPROVED. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. YOU ARE GOOD TO GO FOR A WHILE. ANYWAY, , THANK YOU ALL AND THANK YOU ALL . YES. UM, WE DO HAVE THREE APPLICATIONS, UH, FOR NEXT MONTH. UM, IT'S A GOOD VARIETY, NOT, UH, A FEW THAT ARE NOT, UH, OFF-PREMISE SIGNS, UH, NO OFF-PREMISE SIGNS, , UH, BUT WE HAVE AT LEAST TWO THAT ARE NOT RUN OF THE MILL. THAT WILL BE INTERESTING PROBABLY AS THIS ONE'S MAYBE NOT AS CONTROVERSIAL. WE'LL SEE. BUT, UH, WE DO HAVE A COUPLE THAT ARE MORE INTERESTING THAN NORMAL. SO NO, AFTER THE FACT BUILDING PERMITS ARE, UH, WELL, MAYBE REALLY, IS THERE ANYTHING THAT COULD BE DONE TO BETTER SPELL OUT THE WHOLE OFF PREMISE SIGN DEAL, OR IS IT IT'S, WELL, RIGHT NOW, UM, THE, THE ZONING ORDINANCE HAS, I THINK MAYBE 10, 12 DIFFERENT TYPE OF SIGNS YOU HAVE OF AS OF RIGHT. UM, ALL OF THE ADVERTISING AS OF RIGHT IS ON PREMISES. SO THEN IT, THE NEXT SECTION SAYS, OFF PREMISES ADVERTISING, YOU NEED, OF COURSE, A SPECIAL USE PERMIT. SO IT, IT'S, IT'S SOMEWHAT DIFFICULT. I MEAN, WHICH PUTS IT JUST SQUARELY IN YOUR LAPSE TO PUT WHATEVER CONDITIONS OR RULES OR, UH, UH, BUT ONE THING THAT COULD BE DONE IS TO LIMIT THE TYPE OF OFF PREMISES, YOU KNOW, SIZE, LOCATION, ZONING DISTRICTS, UH, THAT CAN COME BEFORE THE BZA AND NOT MAKE IT SUCH A GENERAL, UH, STATEMENT THAT JUST ALL OFF ALL OTHER SIGNS SHALL BE APPROVED BY THE BZA IS CERTAINLY SOMETHING THAT CAN BE DONE. I MEAN, ONE WAY MAKES SENSE TO ME, TO LIMIT THE NUMBER OF SIGNS IF THAT'S A CONCERN, IS TO SPELL OUT, UH, DISTANCE YEAH. AND DISTANCES BETWEEN AND EVERYTHING. IS THAT A POSSIBILITY OR, UM, YES. I MEAN, IT'S ALWAYS, UH, I'LL JUST PUT IT THIS WAY. AND GENERALLY, ZONING CODES CAN ALWAYS BE IMPROVED IN A NUMBER OF WAYS. AND THIS IS CERTAINLY ONE WAY IT CAN BE IMPROVED. I THINK THAT, UH, THE STATE REQUIRES VDOT [00:45:01] REQUIRES 300 FEET BETWEEN THEM ON, ON ROUTE 13. THAT IS MY UNDERSTANDING. I'M NOT AN EXPERT ON THAT, BUT, BUT I HAVE SPOKEN, SPOKEN, I THINK THAT'S RIGHT. I'VE SPOKEN TO 'EM A NUMBER OF TIMES ABOUT THAT, AND THAT'S MY UNDERSTANDING. THEY HAVE PRETTY GOOD SETS OF RULES ABOUT BILLBOARDS AND WHERE THEY CAN BE AND SUCH, NO MATTER WHAT THE COUNTY OR THE TOWNS WOULD ALLOW. UM, FOR EXAMPLE, AS YOU GO THROUGH X MORE, I HADN'T REALLY, I HAD NEVER THOUGHT ABOUT THAT, BUT THOSE SIGNS DON'T SEEM TO BE 300 FEET APART. I, I, BUT WHO KNOWS . UM, AND TO ADDRESS THE OTHER CONCERN OF LIKE, IF IN THE AREA OF VILLAGE DEVELOPMENT, UH, IF APPLICATIONS ARE RECEIVED, I MEAN, IS THAT SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE WORTH SPELLING OUT? UM, ERIC, JUST TAKE THAT ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS. UM, IT'S AN, AN INTERESTING AND GOOD POINT THAT WAS RAISED HERE ABOUT, UM, SIGNS GOING IN AREAS THAT ARE PRIME FOR FUTURE DEVELOPMENT AND BE, OF COURSE, ONCE YOU GRANT AN SUP, THAT'S IT, IT'S THERE FOREVER UNTIL THEY STOP USING IT FOR TWO YEARS. AND THEN, UM, SO IT'S, UH, SO IT IS A VERY GOOD POINT WHEN YOU'RE PUTTING 'EM IN AR IN AREAS LIKE THIS, THAT THERE BE SOME TRIGGER THAT THEY GO AWAY IN CASE THE NEIGHBORHOOD AROUND IT CHANGES. AND OF COURSE, THE COUNTY WANTS THE NEIGHBORHOOD TO CHANGE, BECAUSE THAT'S WHY WE HAVE THE FUTURE LAND USE DESIGNATIONS. I'LL, I'LL JUST ADD THAT WE'RE, WE'RE AT A TIME WHERE, UH, A REVIEW OF NOT JUST THE SIGN ORDINANCE, BUT THE ZONING ORDINANCE IN GENERAL, THE SUBDIVISION ORDINANCE IN GENERAL, UH, IS IT, IT REALLY IS UPON US, IT, IT'S TIME FOR US TO TAKE A LOOK AT THAT TO, UH, TO SEE WHAT MAKES SENSE FOR TODAY. WHAT IS, WHAT IS VERY APPARENT IS THAT OUR SUBDIVISION AND AND ZONING ORDINANCES WERE WRITTEN, YOU KNOW, DECADES AGO. AND, UH, UM, AS WE MOVE FORWARD WITH OUR COMPREHENSIVE PLAN REVIEW, WHICH IS A, WHICH IS AN ACTIVITY OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS, UH, WHICH WE WILL BE ISSUING AN RFP HERE SHORTLY, AND YOU'RE GONNA START TO SEE US TURN TO ON REVISING THE COMP PLAN WHEN WE START TALKING ABOUT THINGS LIKE, UM, LIKE SIGNAGE OR EVEN MORE GENERALLY PLACEMAKING, WHICH BASICALLY MEANS, YOU KNOW, WE, WE, WE WANT TO INCREASE THE QUALITY OF LIFE WITH, WITH THE TYPES OF AMENITIES AND THE TYPES OF DEVELOPMENT. UH, YOU KNOW, PLACEMAKING ISN'T JUST AN AESTHETIC EXERCISE. IT IS TO IMPROVE THE, THE FUNCTIONALITY AND, AND, UH, UH, YOU KNOW, HOW PEOPLE MOVE THROUGHOUT THE COMMUNITY AND HOW PEOPLE VIEW OUR COMMUNITY. UM, UH, OFF-PREMISE SIGNS HAS A, HAS AN EFFECT ON THAT. BUT AGAIN, BRINGING IT BACK TO THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, WHEN WE START TO, WHEN WE START TO TALK ABOUT PLACEMAKING, WHICH OUR COMP PLAN NOW DOES NOT, AND PLACEMAKING BEING IMPORTANT FROM A LIVABILITY STANDPOINT, BUT ALSO FROM AN ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT STANDPOINT, UM, UH, THOSE KINDS OF COMMENTS MADE DURING THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN REVIEW WILL INFORM HOW WE AMEND THE ZONING ORDINANCE AND THE SUBDIVISION ORDINANCE. SO YES, THAT WOULD BE A MULTI-YEAR, UH, UH, PROCESS TO KIND OF GET TO WHERE YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT MR. HOLLAND. BUT, UM, IF, IF IT, IF IT BECOMES A MORE, UM, UH, INSISTENT OR URGENT ISSUE, THEN WE CAN ALWAYS JUST SAY, HEY, WE'RE GONNA TAKE A LOOK AT THE SIGN ORDINANCE. ONE THING THAT I THINK EVERYBODY RECOGNIZES FROM THE BUSINESSES TO THE STAFF, TO THE, TO THE ADMINISTRATION THAT, UH, THAT OUR SIGN ORDINANCE NEEDS FIXING. AS A MATTER OF FACT, WE HAVE ONE ORDINANCE AMENDMENT THAT WE'RE GOING TO BE EXPLAINING TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION NEXT WEEK, UH, WITH REGARDS TO SIGNS IN THE INDUSTRIAL DISTRICT. SO, UH, RIGHT NOW, SIGNS IN ANY DISTRICT, THEY'RE LIMITED TO APPROXIMATELY 96 SQUARE FEET. AND IS THAT GOING TO BE ENOUGH FOR A LARGE, A LARGE BUILDING? YOU KNOW, UH, WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT A LARGE BUILDING LIKE A PURDUE OR A LARGE BUILDING, LIKE, UH, LIKE WHAT WE'VE GOT OUT AT ROCKET LAB ON, UH, WALL OF ISLAND ROAD, 96 SQUARE FEET ISN'T GONNA DO IT FOR SUCH A LARGE, UM, BUILDING WITH THAT SIZE MASSING. SO WE, YOU KNOW, WHEN, WHEN WE TALK ABOUT RESTRICTING SIGNS, WE'RE WE, WE DON'T WANT TO APPROACH IT OR WE DON'T, YOU KNOW, WE CERTAINLY DON'T WANNA BE CHARACTERIZED AS BEING ANTI-BUSINESS, BUT THAT IS MORE OF A PRO COMMUNITY TYPE STANCE WHEN WE, YOU KNOW, WHEN WE DO WANT TO, UH, STRIKE A, UM, A GOOD BALANCE BETWEEN WHAT THE BUSINESSES [00:50:01] WANT AND OR NEED VERSUS, YOU KNOW, HAVING DELETERIOUS EFFECTS ON THE COMMUNITY AND ON OUR GATEWAYS AND OUR MAJOR, UM, MAJOR ROADS AND THOROUGH AFFAIRS. SO I KNOW THAT'S A LOT OF BIG WORDS, A LOT OF, UH, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF, UM, UH, UH, A LOT OF MORE HIGHER LEVEL VISIONING TYPE, UH, STATEMENT. BUT DECISIONS LIKE THIS DO, UH, DO AFFECT OUR AUTHORITY SOMETIMES. SO IF WE, YOU KNOW, IF WE'RE LOOKING AT TRYING TO, WE, WE DON'T WANT TO CONDUCT SWEEPS TO, TO, UH, UH, YOU KNOW, TO, TO PICK OUT WHAT WE THINK MIGHT BE AN ILLEGAL OR UNPERMITTED SIGN. BUT IF IT BECOMES AN ISSUE, THEN WE MIGHT NOT HAVE A CHOICE. VDOT ALREADY DOES IT. YEAH. BUT THE BOTTOM LINE THERE IS THAT THE STAFF IS AWARE OF MANY DEFICIENCIES IN THE, IN THE ZONING ORDINANCE, SIGNAGE AND OFF-PREMISE SIGNS, SPECIFICALLY BEING ONE OF THEM. OKAY. THANK YOU. MM-HMM . ANY OTHER BUSINESS? UM, JUST TO POINT OUT WHAT'S ON THE SCREEN, THAT, UH, , WE DO HAVE, UH, UH, SOME MATTERS BEFORE THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND, UH, NO MAJOR SUBDIVISIONS AT THIS POINT. AND, UH, THAT'S ALL I HAVE TO REPORT FROM STAFF. OKAY. DO I HEAR A MOTION TO ADJOURN? SECOND, WE ARE ADJOURNED. VERY GOOD. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.