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[Wetlands Board on March 27, 2025.]
THE MEETING TO ORDER.WELCOME TO THE MARCH, 2025 MEETING OF THE ACK COUNTY WETLANDS BOARD.
WHILE GOING THROUGH INTRODUCTORY REMARKS, PLEASE TAKE THE TIME TO SILENCE OR TURN OFF YOUR CELL PHONES.
THE WETLANDS BOARD CONSISTS OF FIVE MEMBERS.
APPROVAL OF ALL PERMITS REQUIRES A MAJORITY VOTE.
TODAY WE HAVE ALL FIVE MEMBERS PRESENT.
WE HAVE A QUORUM FROM MY RIGHT TO LEFT.
MR. ICK, VICE CHAIR, MR. WARD.
UH, WE HAVE MS. UH, JULIE FLOYD, ENVIRONMENTAL PERMIT SPECIALIST.
UM, MR. PAUL WATSON, DEPUTY DIRECTOR AND CODE ADMINISTRATION DIVISION.
UM, MS. GINGER HARMON BACK THERE.
HOW ARE YOU MA'AM? UH, ADMINISTRATIVE ASSISTANT.
AND OF COURSE WE HAVE MS. CLAIRE GORMAN FROM VMRC.
WE APPRECIATE YOU MAKING THE TRIP AGAIN.
OH, LOOK, BECAUSE I DIDN'T USE THAT.
I WAS GONNA TELL YOU I DIDN'T USE IT.
THE BOARD, UH, IS AWARE AND COMPLIES AS CLOSELY AS POSSIBLE TO THE OBJECTIVES OF THE MAR, UH, VIRGINIA MARINE RESOURCES COMMISSION WETLANDS POLICY OF NO NET LOSS.
ALL APPROVED PERMITS ARE GRANTED FOR A TWO YEAR PERIOD FROM THE DATE OF THIS HEARING, UNLESS SPECIFICALLY NOTED, ALL PERSONS, UH, SPEAKING WILL BE SWORN IN.
I ASSUME THAT EVERYONE, UH, HAS TIME TO LOOK OVER THE AGENDA.
WE'VE JUST GOT A NEW ONE, BUT THERE'S VERY LITTLE CHANGE, SO I ASSUME EVERYONE HAS LOOKED IT OVER.
ANY QUESTIONS, COMMENTS, THOUGHTS? IF NOT, I ASK FOR A MOTION TO ACCEPT THE AGENDA.
UH, WE HAD A, UM, THE MINUTES OF LAST MONTH'S MEETING.
UH, EVERYBODY AT LEAST SHOULD HAVE LOOKED OVER IT FOR.
SO DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? IT WAS, UH, JUST A, UH, MUCH SMALLER VERSION, BUT WE GOT THE MESSAGE, SO, UH, I DIDN'T SEE ANYTHING OUTSTANDING ON IT.
ANYBODY HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, COMMENTS, THOUGHTS ON THE MINUTES OF LAST MONTH'S MEETING? IF NOT, I CALL FOR MOTION TO ACCEPT.
THIS IS TIM GI MAKE A MOTION TO ACCEPT THE MINUTES FROM FEBRUARY, 2025.
WE MIGHT PLEASE, UH, START WITH, UM, OLD BUSINESS, UH, JPA 2 24 DASH 26 31.
IT IS 4.01 UNDER OLD BUSINESS, CAROL SAVAGE.
UH, MR. WATSON, WOULD YOU APPROACH MAY SWEAR YOU SWEAR YOU IN? DO YOU, UH, SWEAR THAT YOU'LL TELL THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH, AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH IN ALL MATTERS BEFORE THIS BOARD? I DO.
WOULD YOU CARRY ON, UH, EXCUSE ME.
THIS IS A PROJECT ON HOLLY COVE ROAD, UH, FOR MS. CAROL SAVAGE.
UH, THE BOARD HEARD THIS ORIGINALLY IN JANUARY, AND SOME CHANGES HAVE BEEN MADE TO THE PLAN.
AND, UH, I GUESS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING TO UNDERSTAND TODAY IS THAT, UH, THE ONLY ITEMS WITHIN THE BOARD'S JURISDICTION, OR REMAINING WITHIN THE BOARD'S JURISDICTION ARE A VERY SMALL PORTION OF THE SILLS.
JUST A FOOT OR TWO OF ONE OF THE SILLS, UM, IS WITHIN JURISDICTION.
AND THEN THE FILLED NOURISHMENT BEHIND THE SILLS IS WITHIN THE BOARD'S JURISDICTION.
UM, OTHER ASPECTS OF THIS ARE BULKHEAD REPAIR, UH, ON THE, UH, WESTERN EDGE OF THE PROPERTY AND OYSTER CASTLE SILLS THAT ARE ON THE SOUTHERN EDGE OF THE PROPERTY.
UH, THE BULKHEAD IS WELL OUTSIDE THE BOARD'S JURISDICTION AND THE OYSTER CASTLE SILLS ARE, OR AT LEAST ONE OF THEM, IS SLIGHTLY WITHIN THE BOARD'S JURISDICTION.
UH, THE GOAL OF THIS PROJECT IS TO, UH, ALLOW THE WETLANDS TO RESTORE BEHIND THE SILLS AND THE BULKHEAD.
THE BULKHEADS A LITTLE UNUSUAL HERE.
IT'S FAR OUT INTO THE CREEK, UM, AS OPPOSED TO HUGGING THE SHORE OR EVEN ON THE SHORE.
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HERE IS THE, UH, AMENDED PLAN AND, UH, OF NODE IS THE RECTANGULAR BOX ON THE BOTTOM.AND THAT IS THE AREA THAT IS, UH, THAT CONTAINS THE ELEMENTS WITHIN THE WETLANDS BOARD JURISDICTION.
THE, UH, SOLID BLACK LINES ARE THE, UH, PROPOSED SILLS AND, UH, THE CROSSHATCHING BEHIND IT IS THE, UH, FILL AND NOURISHMENT.
AND I BELIEVE ONE OF THE LATER SLIDES SHOW THE, UM, HERE'S A DETAIL OF, UH, OF THE SILLS AND, AND THE NOURISHMENT.
AND AS YOU CAN SEE, THE, UH, BLUE CURVATURE THERE IS THE MEAN LOW WATERMARK.
AND YOU SEE THAT IT CLIPS THE TOP OF THAT SILL OF MAYBE THE LAST OYSTER CASTLE OR SO.
SO THAT PUTS THE SILL PARTIALLY WITHIN THE WETLANDS BOARD JURISDICTION.
AND THEN OBVIOUSLY THE FILL AND THE NOURISHMENT IS, UH, UH, PRIMARILY OR AT LEAST SUBSTANTIALLY WITHIN THE WETLANDS BOARD JURISDICTION.
AND, UM, IF YOU NEED ANY LONGER, PLEASE TELL ME.
I'LL JUST GO THROUGH THESE, UH, ONE BY ONE.
I KNOW YOU'VE ALREADY SEEN THESE.
UH, YOU, I THINK FOR THE ONES HERE THAT HAVEN'T, UH, AT LEAST START.
AND IF EVERYBODY IS AWARE, UH, WE'LL GO FROM THERE.
EVERYBODY'S HERE HAS ALREADY SEEN THEM.
AND, UH, FINALLY, UM, THIS WAS PROVIDED WITHIN THE LAST, UH, WELL, ABOUT A WEEK AGO.
UH, THIS IS THE PLANTING MONITORING PLAN FOR THE, UH, FILL AND NOURISHMENT.
UM, PROVIDES OVER A NUMBER OF YEARS THAT, UM, TO MAKE SURE THAT, UH, WHAT IS, UH, BEING PROPOSED IS ACTUALLY GONNA COME TO FRUITION.
ALRIGHT, UH, MS. GRIMES IS REPRESENTING, UM, MS. SAVAGE, SO SHE'S GONNA FILL US IN ON A LOT OF THIS, SO THERE'S NO NEED TO GO THROUGH ALL OF IT.
AND NOW I'LL, I'LL RUN THROUGH THE PICTURES.
NOW, THIS IS THE BULKHEAD THAT'S GONNA BE REMOVED, AND THIS IS WHERE THE SILLS ARE GOING TO REPLACE THE BULKHEAD AND THE FILL IN NOURISHMENT BEHIND THE SILLS ON THE SOUTHERN EDGE OF THE PROPERTY.
AND THESE ARE THE PICTURES AS YOU KIND OF GO AROUND THE PROPERTY IN A, UH, CLOCKWISE MOTION.
UH, THESE ARE THE, I WOULD SAY OFFSHORE OR OFF BANK, UH, EXISTING, UH, UH, BULKHEAD THAT IS GOING TO REMAIN AND BE REPAIRED.
AND HERE ARE JUST FURTHER PICTURES AS YOU GO AROUND THE, UH, WESTERN VIEW OF THE PROPERTY.
AND THIS IS THE NORTHERN BOUNDARY OF THAT PROPERTY.
THAT'S THE POINT THAT'S KIND OF, UH, IN THE MIDDLE OF THE PROPERTY.
AND HERE ARE JUST SOME HISTORICAL AERIALS FROM 2002.
AND YOU CAN SEE THE PROGRESSION OF, UH, EROSION ALONG THE BANK.
UH, IT'S KIND OF A DYNAMIC ENVIRONMENT.
AND THEN, UH, IN 2021 AND 2024, YOU CAN SEE A, A LOT OF THE, UH, UH, MARSH AND, UH, BUILT UP SAND HAS ERODED AWAY.
AND FINALLY WE HAVE THE DECISION TREE, WHICH CALLS FOR A MARSH SILL CHANNEL WORD AND RIPARIAN BUFFER.
UM, AND I WOULD SAY THIS IS VERY CLOSE TO A, UH, LIVING SHORELINE PROJECT, BUT THE FETCH HERE MAKES IT INELIGIBLE.
AND I, UH, UNLESS YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, I'LL ALLOW MS. GRIMES TO ADDRESS THIS.
YES, GENTLEMEN, I DID NOT BOTHER TO ASK.
UM, WE'D SEEN ALL THIS BEFORE.
UH, WE'LL CERTAINLY HAVE QUESTIONS AND ANSWER SESSION WHEN IT COMES TO BOARD.
BUT, UH, WHILE MR. WATSON IS HERE, ANYTHING, UH, ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT DECISION TREE, ABOUT, UH, THE REASON FOR, UH, NO LIVING, HE WON'T WORK THERE.
UM, SO IT LOOKS LIKE WE'RE ALL ON THE SAME PAGE, SIR.
UH, AND I'M SURE WE'LL BE COMING BACK TO YOU.
UH, REPRESENTING MS. SAVAGE IS MS. MS. ELLEN GRIMES.
MA'AM, UH, MAY I SWEAR YOU IN? I MAY.
DO YOU AGREE AND SWEAR THAT YOU'LL TELL THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH, AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH IN ALL MATTERS BEFORE THIS BOARD? YES, SIR.
ALRIGHT, MA'AM, WOULD YOU CONTINUE ON AND GET YOUR SLIDES UP AND TAKE US A STEP FURTHER WITH THIS? UM, SO I GUESS THE LAST TIME WE WERE HERE IN JANUARY, THERE WERE SOME OUTSTANDING QUESTIONS BY THE BOARD.
UM, AS I RECALL, THERE WAS NO PLANTING PLAN PRESENTED AT THAT TIME.
ONE OF, THERE WAS SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT WHAT WAS GOING ON UNDER THE PIER WITH THE EXISTING
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RED WRAP.WELL, DON'T YOU JUST, UH, START FROM THAT.
START FROM WHAT? START FROM YOUR ORIGINAL, UH, ADDITION OF MY ORIGINAL, OH GOD.
YOU DON'T? NO, I DON'T WANT TO GO BACK THERE.
UM, LET'S SEE, LET'S TAKE YOU TO THE MAJOR DIFFERENCES IN BETWEEN THIS AND THE ORIGINAL APPLICATION.
WERE BASICALLY ON YOUR CROSS SECTIONS THAT YOU HAVE EITHER ON YOUR ORIGINAL DRAWING OR ON THE REVISIONS.
WHICH IS CROSS SECTION C AND D.
AND THE ONLY REASON, THE ONLY WAY THAT A HAS CHANGED, UM, IS THAT, UH, THERE WE'RE NOT GONNA A WOULD BE A AND A ONE ARE RIGHT POINTER RIGHT HERE.
AND THIS, IF YOU GO THIS WAY, YOU'RE GOING OUT TO THE MOUTH OF A HANCOCK CREEK.
SO THE, THE ONLY, WE HAD ORIGINALLY PROPOSED TO PUT A LITTLE BIT OF FILL MATERIAL BACK HERE, RAISE THE ELEVATION A BIT, AND THEN, AND THEN PLANT THAT.
BUT I THINK INSTEAD OF THAT, WE'RE JUST GONNA PUT SOME, UM, THIS MATERIAL RIGHT HERE WILL LIKELY BE THE STUFF THAT COMES OUT OF RIGHT IN HERE.
THIS IS SECTION DD ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE HOUSE.
THERE'S A BUNCH OF RUBBLE UP ON THE, ON THE, UM, ON THE BANK.
SO WE'RE GONNA TAKE THAT OUT CLEAR, CLEAN THAT UP A LITTLE BIT, AND THEN THIS RUBBLE IS GONNA GO OUT, OUT INTO HERE.
AND AS YOU CAN SEE FROM THAT 2002, UM, AERIAL, THIS ACTUALLY IS NOT A FREESTANDING, WAS NOT BUILT AS A FREESTANDING BULKHEAD.
THIS WAS BUILT AS SOMETHING THAT ACTUALLY HELD UPLAND BACK.
UM, BUT THERE IS NO UPLAND THERE ANYMORE.
UM, HERE, HERE IS, UM, BEHIND THE HOUSE UP ON THIS BANK IS WHERE SOME OF THE RUBBLE'S COMING FROM.
AND THEN THE RUBBLE THAT'S UP UNDERNEATH THE PIER IS JUST GONNA STAY THERE BECAUSE THE TWO, THE TWO CROSS SECTION C AND D, UM, THIS IS DD RIGHT HERE, THIS BULKHEADS GONNA BE REMOVED AND OYSTER CASTLES ARE GOING TO BE PLACED RIGHT IN HERE ON THIS SECTION OF BULKHEAD.
AND THAT SECTION OF BULKHEAD ARE GONNA BE TAKEN OUT.
SO, UM, THOSE WERE MOVING TARGETS THE LAST TIME I WAS HERE.
UH, AS FAR AS I KNOW EXCEPT, UH, FOR QUESTIONS.
BUT YOU HIT THE TOPICS THAT WE HAD ISSUES WITH.
HANK COULD WEIGH IN ON THAT 'CAUSE HE WAS, HE HAD SOME OF THE ISSUES.
ONE OF YOURS I THINK WAS THE ROLE UNDER THE PEER.
HANK THAT, I THINK THAT'S ALL OF 'EM.
UNLESS, UH, WE, WE'LL COME TO COMMENTS, BUT, UH, I BELIEVE THEY ARE THREE TOPICS THAT, UH, WE SUGGESTED A CONTINUANCE AND YOU'VE ANSWERED THEM NOW.
UH, FOR THE RECORD, MR. LEE HAMID IS IN THE ROOM.
UM, IF THERE IS ANYONE THAT HAS SPECIFIC COMMENT ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR JOB THAT HASN'T BEEN COVERED, WE'LL HAVE A PUBLIC COMMENT SECTION, BUT IF THERE'S ANYONE, UH, PLEASE COME FORWARD AND EXCUSE ME, SWORN IN.
IF NOT, I WILL, UM, CLOSE THE FLOOR AND NOW OPEN TO PUBLIC COMMENT.
ANYONE HAVE ANYTHING TO SAY? ANY COMMENTS, QUESTIONS? ALRIGHT, WE'RE GONNA CLOSE IT AND, UM, WE'RE GOING TO OPEN THE, UM, FLOOR NOW TO BOARD COMMENTS, SUGGESTIONS, ET CETERA, ET CETERA.
UH, IF YOU DON'T MIND, LET'S START WITH YOU MR. BADGER.
ANY QUESTIONS, COMMENTS, THOUGHTS? UH, YEAH.
SO I'M LOOKING INSIDE THE, THE LARGER, UH, RECTANGLE AT, AT DED AND CC.
SO I'M LOOKING AT, I WANNA SEE WHERE CC, SO YOU ARE GONNA HAVE CASTLES IN FRONT OF THE EXISTING BULKHEAD AT CC.
YEAH, BUT THAT BULKHEAD IS GONNA GET TAKEN OUT.
CROSS SECTIONS ARE BOTH JOINT.
THAT'S REALLY OLD ORIGINAL VINYL BULKHEAD FROM EARLY NINETIES.
SO THAT, AND THE ONLY OTHER ISSUE OVER ON A ONE, UH, YOU'RE JUST GONNA PUT BASICALLY CRAP WRAP YEP.
AND THE REASON FOR NOT, UH, FILLING TO VEGETATED WETLANDS BEHIND IT IS, IT IS, WELL IT IS VEGETATED.
IT'S SO SPARSELY VEGETATED THAT IT, IT'S
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JUST, IT JUST SEEMS LIKE PROTECTION OUT FRONT SEEMS MORE BENIGN THAN PROTECTION OUT FRONT.AND I'M BRINGING EQUIPMENT BACK IN THERE AND SURE.
PUTTING, AND I'M ASSUMING YOU, YOU THINK THAT THAT WILL PROBABLY REVEGETATE ITSELF.
I HOPE IT WILL REVEGETATE 'CAUSE IT WILL BE MORE PROTECTED.
'CAUSE THAT BULKHEAD IS, UM, IS NOT EVEN WORTHY OF BEING CALLED SUCH.
AND AS FAR AS, UH, VEGETATED WETLANDS BEING, UH, IMPACTED, THERE AREN'T ANY, THERE ARE NOT, THERE ARE NONE.
AND THE REST OF IT IS, THE IMPACTS ARE FROM THE SILL, UH, OR, OR, UH, OYSTER CASTLES.
AND THAT'S JUST A CHANGE, THAT'S A CONVERSION.
SO WE HAVE NO NET LOSS AS FAR.
I, I THINK, UH, WE'LL FIND, OR AT LEAST WE'RE HOPING THAT WE WILL ADD VEG, UH, TO THIS PROJECT.
WE, UH, A NET GAIN VERSUS A NET THAT IS CORRECT.
DO YOU AGREE IN CONVERSION? YES.
AND A LITTLE BIT OF ROCKY IN HERITAL HABITAT IF YOU WANT TO CALL IT THAT.
EUGENE TAYLOR, LIKE I SAID, PROBABLY DEFINITELY AS YOU KNOW, THAT THAT NEEDS TO BE PROTECTED.
AND LIKE YOU SAID, UH, THE FETCH IS THE ONLY THING THAT THAT DOES SCARE ME.
UM, BUT LIKE YOU SAY, UH, ANYTHING YOU CAN DO TO PROTECT IT AND, UH, YOU'RE DOING IT IN A WAY THAT SAYS, UH, BEST FOR THE ENVIRONMENT THAT YOU CAN, AND THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT HAS TO BE TRIED.
THE ONLY OTHER ALTERNATIVE TO THIS PROJECT, AND, AND IT WASN'T REALLY AN ALTERNATIVE TO THE, TO THE FLOODING ISSUE, WAS, WAS TO REBUILD THE EXISTING BULKHEAD ALL THE WAY AROUND THE PROPERTY, ALL THE WAY FROM THE GARAGE ALL THE WAY AROUND TO THE ONANCOCK CREEK SIDE.
BUT THEN THAT, THEN WHAT ARE YOU GONNA TIE INTO A BULKHEAD THAT HAS A THOUSAND MISSING TEETH? DIDN'T MAKE ANY SENSE.
IT, SO IT ENDED UP TO BE A RESILIENCY PROJECT AS OPPOSED TO AN EROSION CONTROL PROJECT.
AND SOME THINGS YOU JUST CAN'T FIX.
BUT I THINK IT'S, IF YOU USE THE DECISION TREE, UH, YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT AND THERE IS NO WAY THAT BULKHEAD, UH, CAN DO WHAT THIS WILL DO IN MY OPINION.
MR. WARD, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, COMMENTS? NO.
OH, OF COURSE I HAVE SOME QUESTIONS.
WELL FIRST OF ALL, MUCH IN MY MIND IN TERMS OF THAT SOUTHERN MUCH SUPERIOR DESIGN, UH, THE LAST TIME I, CORRECT ME, I WRONG, WE WERE THINKING ABOUT PUTTING IN ANOTHER BULKHEAD AND IT WAS GONNA BE A SMALL GAP THAT WE WERE HOPING TO GET SOME VEGETATIVE WETLANDS BEHIND IT.
BUT THIS IS MUCH BETTER, HAVE A BROADER AREA, OBVIOUSLY BE MUCH MORE BENEFICIAL TO THE AREA IN REGARDS TO VEGETATED WETLANDS.
DO YOU, I KNOW IT'S HARD TO ANSWER THIS, BUT DO YOU THINK IT'S GONNA BE SUFFICIENT TO HAVE JUST TWO EIGHT FOOT LONG OYSTER CASTLE SILLS THERE? IS THAT, DO YOU I I, I OBVIOUSLY, I DON'T THINK EIGHT TOO LONG.
I THOUGHT NO ONE'S 70 FEET AND THE OTHER'S 56 FEET.
WHY DID I GET THE EIGHT? OKAY.
MAYBE IT'S THE HEIGHT OR I DON'T KNOW.
AND THEN ALSO I WAS NOTICING ON THE, AND THEN WE TALKED ABOUT LAST TIME, JUST A LITTLE THING ON THE DRAWING.
IT APPEARS THERE'S A RETURN WALL.
THERE'S NO RETURN WALL ON THAT.
THAT BIG BULKHEAD THAT'S RUNNING TO REMAIN THAT, THAT RETURN WALL'S ALREADY THERE.
MAYBE, UH, IT'S AN EXISTING WALL AND THAT IS THE ONLY BULKHEAD THAT'S IN ANY KIND OF DECENT SHAPE.
IF YOU HAVE THIS DRAWING YOU CAN PUT UP I, SHOW ME.
I'M JUST TALKING ABOUT THIS ONE RIGHT HERE.
THAT RETURN WALL'S ALREADY THERE.
I THOUGHT IT WAS, I'M NOT TAKING IT OUT FOR ANY REASON, BUT I THOUGHT IT WAS, IT AIN'T BROKE.
I THOUGHT IT WAS EMPTY SPACE THERE.
WAS THERE, I THINK THAT'S A RETURN WALL.
WELL IT, AND THERE IS ALSO A RETURN WALL ON THE BULKHEAD THAT'S COMING OUT.
AND, AND, AND THAT AREA WHERE THAT NUMBER SIX IS WHERE YOU'RE, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT LOOKING, WHERE YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE RETURN WALL, THAT'S A PRETTY, UH, STABLY VEGETATED AREA RIGHT THERE.
IT'S GOT A LOT OF GOOD GRASSES, ALTERED FLOOR PATENTS AND STUFF.
SO I, I THINK THAT'S A PRETTY STABLE POINT.
THERE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? UM, OR MS. GORMAN, ANYONE ELSE? UM, PAUL, ANY, ANYTHING AT ALL FOLKS? I THINK THAT SHE'S EXPLAINED THE THREE OR FOUR ISSUES THAT CREATED THE CONTINUANCE, BUT THERE MAY BE SOMETHING ELSE.
I THINK YOU ASKED A VERY GOOD QUESTION, BUT, UH, UH, WE ARE, UH, NO NET LOSS AND WE ARE DECISION TREE AND UH, THERE IS NO DOUBT THAT THIS IS THE PROPER PROCEDURE TO SAVE AS MUCH AS WE POSSIBLY CAN AND EVEN GAIN SOME WEAPONS.
ANYBODY GOT ANYTHING ELSE? YOU'RE LOOKING AT ME FUNNY.
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TERMS OF WHAT'S IN OUR JURISDICTION IN TERMS OF THIS PROJECT.IS IT JUST WHERE THE OYSTER CASTLES ARE OR IS THERE ANOTHER SECTION THAT WE SHOULD BE CONCERNED ABOUT IN REGARDS TO OUR JURISDICTION? YOU'VE BEEN SWORN IN, SIR? YES.
CAN YOU ANSWER THE QUESTION? UM, YES SIR.
PAUL WATSON, UM, I'LL COME OVER AND POINT THIS OUT.
AS YOU CAN SEE, THIS BLUE LINE, THE MEAN LOW WATER ECLIPSES THE END OF THAT OYSTER CASTLE.
SO THAT IS, AS FAR AS THE OYSTER CASTLE IS CONCERNED, THAT IS THE EXTENT OF THE BOARD'S JURISDICTION OVER THE OYSTER CASTLE.
BUT THE FILL AND THE NOURISHMENT BEHIND THE OYSTER CASTLE, AS YOU CAN SEE WITH THE BLUE LINE GOING THROUGH THE CROSS HATCH AREA, IS SUBSTANTIALLY WITHIN THE BOARD'S JURISDICTION.
DOES THAT ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, HANK? EXCUSE ME? YEAH.
UM, SOME OF THE PHOTOS SHOW IN FRONT OF THAT EXISTING BULKHEAD THERE, UH, LAND.
SO I QUESTIONED WHERE THEY'VE GOT THE LOW WATERMARK ON.
UH, SO, UM, THIS WOULD BE, UH, JUST SO WE'RE ORIENTED MM-HMM
EVERYBODY'S IN AGREEMENT WHERE WE'RE ORIENTED.
I BELIEVE THIS IS THE PICTURE WHICH PROBABLY BEST CAPTURES WHERE THE SILLS WOULD BE.
UM, I KNOW THERE'S OTHER, YOU KNOW, THESE ARE, AS YOU GO AROUND THE PROPERTY CLOCKWISE AND I GUESS EVENTUALLY LOOKING OVER TO THE MOUTH OF AN C**K CREEK HERE, WHICH IS LOOKING OVER TO THE OTHER EDGE OF THE PROPERTY.
BUT I BELIEVE THIS WOULD BE PROBABLY BEST CAPTURE WHAT, WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT AS FAR AS WHERE THE OYSTER SEALS AND THE FILLING NOURISH ARE GOING.
DO YOU HAVE A PHOTO LOOKING DOWN IN FRONT OF THAT BALL KID? I SAW SOMETHING SOMEWHERE ELSE ON ONE OF THE OTHER DRAWINGS.
WELL, THE, THE OF PHOTOS, THE PHOTO THAT YOU JUST HAD IN THERE.
SO THIS WOULD BE, THAT'S, UM, YEAH, I WOULD, LET'S SEE.
THAT'S A PRETTY LITTLE TIE THERE.
UM, I BELIEVE WOULD BE WHERE A C IS.
UH, I THINK TO THE LEFT OF C WELL, NO, THAT'S AN EXISTING BULKHEAD.
UM, I DON'T HAVE A, IIII THINK YOU ARE CORRECT.
IT IS WOULD BE SOMEWHERE TO THE LEFT OF C BUT OBVIOUSLY YOU CAN SEE THE EXISTING BULKHEAD THERE ON THE DRAWING.
UM, I'LL GO BACK TO THE PICTURE.
UM, YEAH, I REALLY DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE PROJECT WHATSOEVER.
THAT'S WHAT I WAS CONCERNED ABOUT.
IT LOOKED LIKE IT WAS MORE, THAT'S ALL JUST JURISDICTIONAL.
UH, I, I THINK IS THE QUESTION.
UH, IS IT WITHIN OR NOT WITHIN, I SEE WHAT YOU'RE, YEAH, SO THAT PORTION DOWN THERE WOULD BE WITHIN OUR JURISDICTION, WHICH MIGHT BE ABOUT HALF OF THAT, UH, THAT SECTION OF THE, THE BULKHEAD AREA.
THE QUESTION IS WHAT'S IN OUR JURISDICTION, UH, BASED ON, UH, BACK THAT UP PLEASE TO THE, UH, THE SAME PICTURE THAT SHOWED.
ANYBODY ELSE HAVE ANY COMMENTS, QUESTIONS? UM, IF I COULD ADD SOMETHING TO THAT.
I, I TOOK THAT PICTURE AND I BELIEVE, UM, IT WAS AT AN EXCEEDINGLY EXTREME.
WE HAD A TWO OR THREE DAYS OF A BLOWOUT LOW TIDE.
AND I BELIEVE THAT THOSE WERE THE DAYS.
I, UH, I THINK THAT'S A REALLY LOW TIDE.
BUT I DO RECALL, UM, HAD, HAVING A HARD TIME FIGURING OUT, I AGREE.
I WAS LOOKING AT, BECAUSE, UM, EVEN AT HIGH TIDE IT WAS LOWER THAN THE NORMAL.
I HAD SOME EXTREME PEPTIDES AND I'M IN THE CREEK.
UH, SO I CERTAINLY UNDERSTAND WHY.
BUT, UH, EVERYBODY SATISFIED NOW WITH WHAT'S IN, WHAT'S OUT? I, I THINK SO.
AS, AS LONG AS STAFF IS, UH, IS COMFORTABLE WITH THE NUMBERS.
AND DO WE NEED TO HEAR FROM MS. GORMAN ON THIS PARTICULAR SUBJECT? ANYTHING THAT SHE MIGHT ADD? OKAY.
DON'T NEED YOU QUITE YET, BUT DON'T LEAVE US.
UH, MR. CHAIR, I JUST WANT TO JUST DOUBLE CHECK ONE THING.
SO THE, THE OYSTER CASTLES ARE GONNA GO RIGHT HERE? YEAH.
OR HERE THEY'RE GONNA BE, WELL IF WE CAN, UM, SEE THAT END OF THAT BULKHEAD RIGHT THERE.
AND THEN I'LL GO BACK TO THE DRAWING AND THAT'LL GIVE YOU A GOOD IDEA OF THAT.
SO AS YOU CAN SEE, IT APPEARS AS IF THE OYSTER CASTLE EXTENDS SIX FEET OR SO BEYOND THE END OF THAT.
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LENGTH, UH, TAKES PRECEDENT OVER THERE.YOU NOW SEE THAT IT'S A LOT MORE FOOTAGE, RIGHT? YES.
ANY, ANYONE ELSE GENTLEMEN? ALRIGHT.
UM, IF NOT, UH, CONSIDERING THE VMRC UM, 2 0 2 4 DASH TWENTY SIX THIRTY ONE, MAY I CALL FOR A MOTION, UH, MR. BADGER TO PROCEED.
UM, I MAKE A MOTION TO ACCEPT THE PROJECT AS PRESENTED TODAY WITH THE, UH, WITH NO MITIGATION, CONSIDERING IT'S A, UH, A NET GAIN OF VEGETATIVE WETLANDS AND THE IMPACTS TO THE, UH, FROM THE OYSTER CASTLES.
AND WITH THE, ALSO WITH THE, UH, UH, MITIGATION PLAN THAT WAS PRESENTED.
HOW ABOUT A SECOND? I SECOND GEORGE WARD.
ALRIGHT, CALL FOR A VOTE PLEASE.
UH, THE PERMIT IS APPROVED FOR TWO YEARS FROM TODAY'S DATE.
ALL PARTIES ARE ADVISED THAT THE FOREGONE DETERMINATION GRANTS NO AUTHORITY TO ENCROACH ON THE PROPERTY OF OTHERS.
EVERYBODY UNDERSTAND THAT? OKAY.
UH, IT IS 4.02 OLD DOMINION ELECTRIC COOPERATIVE VMRC 2 22 4 0 9.
ONCE AGAIN, SIR, UH, PAUL, CARRY ON.
I PULLED, UH, A FEW OF THE, UH, CHARTS FROM THE ORIGINAL APPLICATION JUST TO REFRESH THE BOARD'S RECOLLECTION OF WHAT YOU DID SEVERAL YEARS AGO.
UH, THIS IS THE ROAD INTO SHTE AND MORE PARTICULARLY THE END OF RUNWAY 35 ACROSS THE STREET FROM THERE.
UH, THE AIM OF THIS PROJECT IS TO GET RID OF THE, UH, OVERHEAD ELECTRIC LINE THAT'S SOMEWHAT OF A HINDRANCE TO NAVIGATION AND PUT IT UNDERGROUND.
UH, WHAT WAS BEFORE THE BOARD WAS NOT PUTTING, UH, THE LINE UNDERGROUND.
IT WAS GETTING RID OF THE POLES THAT WERE WITHIN THE WETLAND BOARD'S JURISDICTION.
UM, HERE'S A CLOSER UP DETAIL OF WHAT THEY, THEY ARE DOING.
AND HERE'S THE REQUEST THAT I RECEIVED.
UH, THEY'RE ASKING FOR THE PERMIT TO BE EXTENDED, UH, THIRD TIME TO, UH, THE END OF THE SECOND PARAGRAPH, THAT DATE, APRIL 28TH, 2026.
UM, MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT THEY'VE HAD SOME, UH, VARIOUS DELAYS, BUT MORE RECENTLY IT'S BEEN SOME ENVIRONMENTAL OR SOME OTHER TYPE OF FEDERAL REGULATIONS THEY'VE HAD TO COMPLY WITH.
I GOT A SECOND, UH, CORRESPONDENCE FROM THEM WHERE THEY ARE PLANNING TO DO THIS IN MAY AND JUNE OF 2025.
UH, ONCE, UH, NOW THAT THEY'VE GOTTEN CLEARANCE FROM THE ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS TO DEAL WITH THOSE ISSUES.
SO ARE THEY IN FACT ASKING FOR ANOTHER EXTENSION? THEY ARE, THEY ARE ASKING FOR AN EXTENSION TO APRIL 28TH, UH, 2026.
UM, WHICH SEEMS LIKE IT'S MORE THAN ENOUGH TIME CONSIDERING THEY'RE PLANNING TO DO THIS, CERTAINLY THIS WITHIN THE NEXT TWO MONTHS.
AND, UH, THAT'S ALL I HAVE TO PRESENT ON THIS ISSUE.
AND, UH, THE PERMIT WAS TO EXPIRE.
UH, SO THEY'RE ASKING FOR ANOTHER TWO YEAR EXTENSION TO MAKE SURE THEY'RE ONLY, UH, THEY'RE ONLY ASKING FOR ONE YEAR.
WELL, I WAS THINKING ABOUT RECOMMENDING TWO YEARS.
THE BOARD WILL DETERMINE I JUST, UM, GONNA THROW THIS OUT.
UH, WE'VE DONE IT ONE YEAR MANY TIMES AND IT'S ALWAYS TURNED, ALMOST ALWAYS TURNED INTO TWO.
SO WE HAVE BEEN OFFERING TWO YEARS AND WE'LL GET TO IT AT SOME POINT IN TIME.
WHEN WE FIRST APPROVED THIS PROJECT, WAS IT FOR ONE YEAR OR TWO YEARS? BECAUSE WE CHANGED OUR POLICY.
AND IT WAS ONE TO START WITH ONE YEAR.
THAT'S BEFORE WE DECIDED ALMOST EVERY EXTENSION FOR ONE YEAR THEY WERE BACK.
AND IT WAS SORT OF, UH, RIDICULOUS.
MY, MY QUESTION ON 2022, DO YOU HAVE THAT 2022 DATE THAT WE APPROVED IT? UM, LET'S SEE.
UH, APRIL 28TH, 2022 WAS THE ORIGINAL MEETING.
UM, THEN ON MARCH 23RD, 2023, IT WAS AN EXTENDED FOR AN ADDITIONAL YEAR.
AND THEN ON MARCH 28TH, 2024, IT WAS
[00:30:01]
EXTENDED FOR A YEAR.AND MR. CHANDLER, WHILE I'M GOING WITH THAT, FIVE YEARS.
AND I, THAT'S, THAT'S MY QUESTION.
AND YOU'LL BE DOING THIS, SO MAKE SURE YOU'RE RIGHT.
UH, AND THEN MY NEXT, I, UH, SORRY, WE WERE HAVING A DISCUSSION.
LET'S, LET'S BACK UP A MINUTE OR TWO AND, UH, LET'S DO THIS BY THE BOOK AND THERE'LL BE AMPLE TIME FOR EVERYTHING.
UM, IS, IS THERE ANYONE HERE THAT, UH, WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR PROJECT? WE'LL OPEN THE FLOOR TO PUBLIC COMMENT, BUT ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR ONE, IF NOT, I CLOSED THE FLOOR.
WE'RE GONNA OPEN IT TO BOARD DISCUSSION.
JUST TO JUST REFRESH MY MEMORY, DO WE HAVE A DISCUSSION REGARDS TO NUMBER OF EXTENSIONS THAT WE CAN GIVE? AND I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT WE YEAH.
DON'T, UH, WE NEED TO MAKE A STATEMENT ABOUT THAT IN REGARDS TO YES.
UM, MR. WATSON, THE, UH, POLICY DOCUMENT THAT THE BOARD IS CONSIDERING NOW, I BELIEVE SAYS THERE'S A MAXIMUM OF THREE EXTENSIONS.
NOW, NOW THAT WILL BE THREE, TWO YEAR EXTENSIONS, YOU UNDERSTAND? UM, SO THAT'S ABSOLUTELY CORRECT.
YOU GOT ANY MORE QUESTIONS? ALRIGHT, MR. WARD, ANY THOUGHTS? UM, I, I THINK IT'S OBVIOUSLY A GOOD PROJECT.
THEY'RE GONNA DO IT NO MATTER WHAT WE CHOOSE, BUT, UH, WE'D LIKE IT BY THE BOOKS AND I BELIEVE THEY'LL GET IT DONE.
AND THIS WILL BE THEIR LAST EXTENSION.
AND I THINK THEY'RE AWARE OF IT.
THEY SAY THEY'RE GONNA DO IT IN A YEAR.
SO FOR THE RECORD, IF IT'S MORE THAN TWO, THEY COME BACK FOR ANOTHER ONE, IT STARTS ALL OVER AGAIN.
NOW, I, I DON'T KNOW IF THEY HAVE THE, UH, ABILITY TO OVERRIDE US.
I'M SURE THEY DO, BUT AS OF THIS MOMENT, THEY GOT TWO YEARS.
ALRIGHT, ANY QUESTIONS? YOUR, IT'S YOUR BACKYARD.
UH, I THINK WE HAVE, UH, JUST ABOUT EVERYTHING WE NEED.
UH, MAY I ASK FOR A MOTION? MR. CHAIRMAN? JEAN TAYLOR, I'LL MAKE A MOTION THAT WE EXTEND JPA NUMBER 2 0 2 2 DASH 0 4 0 9 TO APRIL 28TH, 2027.
ALRIGHT, WE HAVE A MOTION, UH, FOR THE LAST AND, UH, ANOTHER TWO YEAR EXTENSION.
UH, HOW ABOUT A SECOND? UH, TIM GICK.
YOU GOT, UH, NO ONE IS HERE, BUT IT'S IN THE BOOK IT JULIE FOR TWO YEARS AND IT'S THE END OF IT.
ALRIGHT, WE'RE GONNA MOVE ON TO NEW BUSINESS NOW.
UH, UM, FIVE DASH ZERO ONE IS VIRGIL STA BALL.
IT'S VR VM C 2 0 24 DASH 29 34.
FIRST OF ALL, UH, MR. WATSON, WOULD YOU GIVE US YOUR SYNOPSIS? YES, SIR.
UM, THIS IS A 60 FOOT STONE REVETMENT WITH TWO 20 FOOT RETURN WALLS ON, UH, TI SOUND.
UM, CONSTRUCTION WILL BE FOR LAND WITH CLASS TWO AND CLASS THREE STONE.
UM, WHILE THERE'S SOME NON VEGETATIVE WETLANDS AFFECTED, THIS WOULD BE A CONVERSION BECAUSE IT'S JUST GOING FROM NON VEGETATED, UH, TO STONE REVETMENT.
HERE'S THE LOCATION OF THE PROPERTY.
IT'S ONE OF THE PARCELS OF, IT HAS A HOUSE ON ONE SIDE OF MAIN STREET AND THEN A SMALL WATERFRONT PROPERTY ON THE OTHER SIDE OF MAIN STREET, BUT ALL ONE PARCEL.
AND HERE'S, UH, JUST SHOWING THE 60 FOOT FOR THAT WITH THE TWO RETURN WALLS OVERLAID ON THE PROPERTY.
AND HERE'S THE DETAIL OF WHAT'S WITHIN THE WETLANDS BOARD JURISDICTION.
AS YOU CAN SEE, A GOOD PORTION OF THE 60 FOOT REVETMENT IS WITHIN THE BOARD'S JURISDICTION.
THE RETURN WALLS ARE NOT, UM, BUT THAT, UH, A GOOD PORTION OF THE FRONTAGE IS RIGHT.
AND THIS IS THE SIDE DETAIL, JUST SHOWING THE, THE HEIGHT OF THE RIP WRAP AND, UH, WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN BEHIND IT IN THE UPLANDS.
AND HERE ARE PICTURES OF THE PROPERTY, UH, OBVIOUSLY FACING, UH, FROM MAIN STREET SIDE OUT OF MICHIGAN, TI SOUND.
AND AS YOU CAN SEE, THE PROPERTY HAS BEEN FLAGGED.
[00:35:01]
UH, THIS IS THE BACK EDGE OF THE, UM, AND HERE'S SOME AERIALS JUST TO SHOW THE BOARD WHAT HAS HAPPENED WITH THIS PROPERTY OVER THE YEARS.UM, THERE'S HAS NOT BEEN MUCH MOVEMENT THERE AS HEAVILY SHEED, WHICH HAS BEEN PROTECTING IT.
AND HERE IS THE DECISION TREE, UM, WHICH, UH, DOES CALL FOR, UH, VEGETATION MANAGEMENT, UH, MARSH AND STILL.
BUT, UM, THIS PROPERTY, THIS CERTAINLY SEEMS LIKE A, UH, AN ACCEPTABLE TYPE OF PROJECT CONSIDERING THE CONDITION OF ITS PROPERTY PRESENTLY OF HEAVILY SHELVED, UH, HARD, BASICALLY A HARD SURFACE FACING.
UM, I THINK BEFORE WE ASK ANY QUESTIONS, UH, WE MIGHT GET A LITTLE MORE INFORMATION FROM MR. WARD, YOU APPROACH.
DO YOU SWEAR THAT YOU'LL TELL THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH, AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH? I DO.
UH, YOU ARE REPRESENTING, UM, THE STONE VAC STANAL STANAL.
WOULD YOU CARRY ON AND MAYBE ASK, ANSWER SOME QUESTIONS, UH, THAT POSSIBLY WILL, UM, KEEP US FROM ASKING YOU AGAIN? CER CERTAINLY MR. WATSON COVERED IT VERY WELL.
UM, THE, THE APPLICANT WRITTEN THE PROPERTY OWNER ORIGINALLY, LIKE, LIKE MOST, YOU KNOW, WAS INTERESTED IN A BULKHEAD.
UH, WE DISCUSSED WITH THEM THE, YOU KNOW, THE UNLIKELIHOOD OF GETTING A BULKHEAD, UM, INSTALLED IN THE ORIGINAL LOCATION, FELT THAT ADDING, YOU KNOW, ADDING SOME HARD SURFACE, UM, TO THE SITE WOULD JUST INCREASE MARINE HABITAT AND, AND LESSEN THE IMPACT.
AND PLUS IT WOULD KNOCK THE WAVE ACTION DOWN.
UM, LOT, LOT OF WAVE ACTION ALONG THAT CHANNEL.
UM, AND, AND AS MR. WATSON SAID, THE PROPERTY HAS PRETTY MUCH REMAINED, UM, IN ITS CURRENT, UM, ALIGNMENT, UM, JUST THROUGH, PROBABLY DUE TO OTHERS, OTHERS ACTIVITIES ON ADJOINING PROPERTIES AND IN THE AREA TO KEEP THE, UH, WAVE ACTION DOWN THERE.
BUT, UM, HE DOES WANT TO, HE DOES WANNA HAVE HIS OWN PROTECTION, OF COURSE.
UM, ANYONE BEFORE, UH, BOARD COMMENTS, ANY THOUGHTS ON THIS, UH, UH, DECISION TREE? ANYTHING FOR MR. WARD? OKAY, YES.
I, I, I GUESS IT'S A QUESTION AND I'M, I'M, I'M RELAYING MY THOUGHTS HERE, UH, JURISDICTION WISE ON THIS, THERE IS NO VEGETATIVE WETLANDS INVOLVED IN THIS PROJECT, IS THERE? NO.
SO IT'S ALL INTERTIDAL SHELL OR STONE OR WHATEVER THE RUBBLE? NO.
SO OUR JURISDICTION STOPS AT HIGH WATER ON THIS.
SO, SO EVERYTHING THAT LOOKS BEHIND IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH OUR JURISDICTION.
THAT'S MY INTERPRETATION, CORRECT? UH, I, I THINK THAT'S CORRECT.
UM, I ASSUME THAT YOU SPEAKING LOUDLY ENOUGH TO BE ON THE RECORD, BUT I THINK YOU'LL FIND IT'S HIGH WATER FOR THAT REASON.
YEAH, THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT I ASSUME.
UM, WE'RE GOING TO, UM, SAVE THE REST OF OUR QUESTIONS NOW.
I'LL WAIT FOR AFTER PUBLIC HEARING.
IS THERE ANYONE THAT HAS ANY COMMENT ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR PROJECT? UH, THAT WILL NOT BE FOR PUBLIC COMMENT.
ALRIGHT, I'D LIKE TO CLOSE THE FLOOR, OPEN IT NOW TO PUBLIC COMMENT.
ANYONE HAS ANYTHING TO SAY? CLOSE IT.
MR. MR. WARD, COME BACK UP FOR A SECOND.
JUST, JUST WANT TO CONFIRM THE BLUE FLAGS I SAW, I THINK YOU MENTIONED THAT'S THE FULLEST LANDWARD EXTENT OF THE NIK, CORRECT? THAT IS CORRECT.
SO MOST OF IT'S GONNA BE CHANNEL WORD FROM THOSE BLUE FLAGS? THAT'S CORRECT.
AND THAT THERE IS A PORTION, OBVIOUSLY THERE'S AN AMOUNT THAT WILL GO BELOW THE MEAN LOW WATER THAT WE'RE GONNA CONSIDER THAT CONVERSION.
I GUESS IN REGARDS TO THE, ANY IMPACT IT MIGHT HAVE ON NON VEGETATIVE.
WE ASK YOUR QUESTION AGAIN PLEASE.
IN TERMS OF OUR JURISDICTION IN, THAT'S THE BACKSIDE OF THE REVETMENT, IT, ANY MATERIAL, ANY LAMP THAT GOES INTO THE AREA CHANNEL WARD, THAT'S GOING TO BE CONSIDERED CONVERSION OF ANY, ANY JURISDICTION THAT WE MAY HAVE IN REGARDS TO ANY NON VEGETATIVE WETLANDS THAT MIGHT BE TAKEN UP? OR IS IT COMPLETELY OUT OF OUR JURISDICTION?
[00:40:01]
THAT'S WHAT I'M TRYING TO GET AT.THE, THE AREA PROPOSED FOR THE RESENTMENT IS, IS WITHIN YOUR JURISDICTION PARTLY AND PART OF IT'S OUT OF YOUR JURISDICTION.
THE, THE, WE CAN GO BACK TO THE, THE, THE, UM, THE PLAN VIEW.
SO GEN GENERALLY MEAN LOW WATER FOLLOWS ALONG GENERALLY ABOUT THE, THE ORIGINAL, THE OLD BULK HEADLINE MM-HMM
UM, WE'RE NOT PROPOSING TO GO BEYOND THAT, UM, WITH, WITH ANY OF THE MATERIAL.
SO WE'RE, WE'RE NOT GETTING INTO ANY, IF WE WERE BELOW MEAN LOW WATER, I WOULD INTERPRET THAT TO BE STATE OWNED, BOTTOM RIGHT.
WHICH THEN WOULD NEED A PER PERMIT FROM BMRC, WHICH WE'RE NOT PROPOSING TO DO THAT MIGHT, WE'RE NOT GETTING ANY IMPACT TO, UH, NON VEGETATED WETLANDS THAT'S IN OUR JURISDICTION.
AND, AND NO FEE OR ANY MITIGATION REQUIRED TO GO AND GO IN REGARDS TO IN LOW FEES.
IT, IT MAY NOT EVEN BE CONSIDERED A CONVERSION IN THE SENSE THAT THERE'S ALREADY RUBBLE AND SHELL AND HARD, HARD MATERIAL THERE AND WE'RE ADDING MORE HARD MATERIAL TO IT, BUT WE ARE INCREASING THE ELEVATION OF THE HARD MATERIAL, SO WE ARE CHANGING SOMEWHAT OF THE CHANGING THE ELEVATION OF THE MATERIAL THAT'S THERE.
EITHER WAY, IT'S HARD BOTTOM, NO SUB ULUS, UH, NO MITIGATION, UH, AT LEAST THAT'S WHAT I HAVE READ AND HEARD TODAY.
I JUST WANNA CLARIFY, PROVIDE THAT POINT.
YEAH, I KNOW, I KNOW WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.
IT WAS 240 MR. TAYLOR, BETWEEN THE MEAN HIGH AND THE MEAN LOW THERE IN THE, IN THE ROCK THAT'S GOING TO BE PUT THERE IS JUST LIKE YOU SAID, IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE PAID FOR.
I KNOW THAT ON PAGE, THE 17 OR WHATEVER IT IS, IT SAYS 240 FEET, BUT LIKE I SAID, IT IS SOMETHING ALREADY THERE, BUT IT IS GONNA BE RAISED UP HIGHER, BUT BECAUSE IT'S QUARRY STONE, IT'S NOT GONNA BE CHARGED FOR.
I KNOW EXACTLY WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.
I KNOW, I KNOW EXACTLY WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.
WE GONNA SAY IT IS ABSOLUTELY CHANGE OF ELEVATION ONLY.
UH, I KNOW YOU WERE SAYING THAT AREA WAS HEAVILY SHELLED.
I WAS IMPRESSED ABOUT HOW LIGHTLY SHELLED IT WAS AND HOW GOOD IT HELD UP THAT WAS.
I MEAN, TO ME, YOU GOTTA ADMIT, I THAT WAS TO ME, I MEAN, IT'S NOT LIKE A FOOT DEEP.
IT'S, YOU KNOW, AND IT'S REALLY PROTECTED THAT PROPERTY OR, AND I KNOW PEOPLE WANT OYSTER SHELLS IN THE WATER PROTECT, YOU KNOW, GET THE SEEDS AND CATCHING THE SEEDS.
I KNOW THAT
AND, UM, THAT'S JUST A COMMENT.
I THINK THIS IS A GREAT PROJECT TO CONTINUE, UH, TO PROTECT THAT PROJECT.
I I THINK IT'S, UM, A GREAT PROJECT AND WE'RE SO GLAD TO HAVE IT DONE, BUT THAT'S JUST MY OPINION.
WE'RE GOING TO, UM, CALL FOR A MOTION.
MR. CHAIRMAN, I MAKE A MOTION THAT WE APPROVE, UH, VMRC 20 24 2 9 3 4.
THE 294 FOOT OF, UH, NON VEGITATIVE PRODUCTS IN OUR JURISDICTION WILL BE CONSIDERED CONVERSION, UH, WITH THE, UH, FOREST STONE.
IT'LL BE ADDED TO ALREADY, UM, STONED AND, AND CRAP WRAP.
HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND MAY I CALL FOR A VOTE, PLEASE? AYE.
UH, MR. WARD, UH, PERMIT IS APPROVED FOR TWO YEARS FROM TODAY'S DATE.
ALL PARTIES ARE ADVISED THAT THE FOREGOING DETERMINATION GRANTS NO AUTHORITY TO ENCROACH ON THE PROPERTY OF OTHERS.
NOW, STILL ON NEW BUSINESS, WE'RE GOING TO, UH, FIVE DASH ZERO TWO SWORN COMPLAINTS OF VIOLATIONS.
MR. WATSON, YOU WANT TO TALK TO US? YES, SIR.
I'LL TAKE THESE IN JUST AN ORDER THAT I HAVE AND ONE THROUGH SIX.
UM, THE FIRST, UH, THE FIRST ONE IS AGAINST, UH, B INC.
UM, THIS PROJECT PREDATED MY INVOLVEMENT WITH THE BOARD, BUT, UH, LOOKED THROUGH THE DOCUMENTS.
I BELIEVE THAT, UH, THIS WAS A BULKHEAD.
UM, AND THE SECTION OF THE BULKHEAD THAT'S, UH, BEFORE US WITH THIS SWORN COMPLAINT WAS ORIGINALLY PERMIT PERMITTED TO BE, UH, 38 FEET LONG.
UM, IT WAS ACTUALLY BUILT APPROXIMATELY 55 FEET LONG.
UM, UH, B AND MR. BRITTON APPEARED BEFORE THE BOARD, UH, A FEW MONTHS AGO ABOUT THIS ISSUE.
HE WAS ORDERED TO, UH, COMPLY WITH THE PLANS OF REDUCE THE SIZE OF THE BULKHEAD FROM 55 FEET DOWN TO 38
[00:45:01]
FEET.UM, MUCH WORK HAS BEEN DONE, UM, BUT WE WENT OUT AND MEASURED THE BULKHEAD.
IT'S STILL IN EXCESS OF 38 FEET.
UM, I MEASURED IT AT 42 AND A HALF FEET, UM, FROM SHEATHING TO SHEATHING.
UM, OUT OF ABUNDANCE OF CAUTION, I FILED A SECOND SWORN COMPLAINT JUST TO GET THIS IN FRONT OF THE BOARD IN THE PROPER MANNER.
AND, UH, BIG, UH, MR. BRITTEN HAS FILED AN AMENDED, UH, PLAN SHOWING WHAT HE BUILT IS 41 FEET, UH, I BELIEVE FOUR INCHES.
UM, SO THAT IS BEEN FILED, UH, WITH THE JPA AS AN ATTEMPTED AMENDMENT TO THE ORIGINAL PERMIT.
IT'S UNCLEAR TO ME TO WHAT EXTENT THE BOARD CAN THEN CONSIDER THAT AMENDMENT.
UM, BUT OBVIOUSLY WE HAVE AN ADMISSION THAT IT IS GREATER THAN 38 FEET.
UM, AND WHAT I'M ASKING THE BOARD TODAY IS TO, UH, SET THIS FOR A HEARING AT THE NEXT, UH, MEETING TO DETERMINE, UH, WHAT IT WILL DO WITH BOTH THE AMENDMENT AND THE COMPLAINT.
UM, THIS IS A LITTLE DIFFERENT.
UM, BASICALLY THE REASON FOR THIS RIGHT NOW IS TO GET IT ON THE DOCKET FOR NEXT MONTH.
AND MR, I'M SORRY, I DIDN'T MEAN TO INTERRUPT YOU, MR. CHAIR.
I, I WOULD LIKE, PROBABLY LIKE TO HEAR FROM MS. GORMAN ABOUT YES.
PROCEDURAL WISE AND WHAT, HE STOLE IT RIGHT OUTTA MY MOUTH COUNTER.
OR, UH, MS. GORMAN, MAY I SWEAR YOU IN, PLEASE? YES, SIR.
YOU SWEAR TO TELL THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH IN ALL MATTERS BEFORE THIS BOARD? I DO.
IF YOU DON'T MIND CARRYING ON, BASICALLY, UM, UH, ANY QUESTIONS THAT WE MIGHT HAVE, UH, EITHER APPRECIATE IT AND THEN WE'LL PROBABLY HAVE MORE.
YEAH, I, I GUESS OUR EXPERIENCE IS SORT OF NEW IN THIS AREA WHERE YOU HAVE A COMPLAINT AND THEN A REFILING.
IS THIS TYPICAL OR IS THERE SOME, IS THIS NORMAL PROCEDURE IN REGARDS TO DOING THINGS OR HELP US OUT HERE? GIVE US SOME GUIDELINES IF YOU CAN.
SO PROCEDURALLY, UM, I THINK THE WAY MR. WATSON IS HANDLING IT IS CORRECT, UM, IT WILL REQUIRE ANOTHER HEARING AND THEN YOU ALL WILL DECIDE HOW TO, UM, HOW TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THE PROPOSED REVISION AND THE, UM, AND THE CURRENT BULKHEAD ALIGNMENT.
THAT, UH, THE REST WE CAN WAIT TILL BOARD DISCUSSION, I THINK.
BUT THAT WAS VERY POINTED QUESTION THAT NEEDED TO BE BROUGHT UP.
UH, ANYONE ELSE, UH, HAVE ANY, UH, QUESTIONS ALONG THOSE LINES FOR MS. GORMAN? UM, I'M NOT SURE IF THIS IS FOR MS. GORMAN OR UH, FOR PAUL.
UM, SO THE HEARING NEXT MONTH, IF WE DECIDE TO GO IN THAT DIRECTION IS, IS IT A SHOW CAUSE HEARING OR IS IT AN AS A REVISED APPLICATION? UM, I WAS ANTICIPATING BOTH, UH, FOR, FOR FOR THE BOARD TO HEAR IT AS ONE, UH, TO TO HEAR BOTH AT THE NEXT HEARING.
SO THIS WOULD BE ADVERTISED AS AN AMENDMENT TO THE, THE APPLICATION OR TO THE PER PERMIT, I GUESS THAT IS, YES.
SO WE COULD EITHER, WHEW, I'M TRYING TO ENVISION MYSELF, WHAT'S THE F THEN LOGIC? YEAH, I'M NOT SURE HOW, IT SEEMS LIKE WE SHOULD HAVE A, A SHOW CAUSE HEARING AND THEN IF IT'S, IF FOR WHATEVER REASON WE DECIDE TO ACCEPT AN APPLICATION OR A MODIFICATION, THEN THAT SHOULD BE A, A FOLLOWING MONTH.
AM I WRONG ON MY THINKING THERE? UH, I I THINK THIS IS MAYBE SOMEWHAT UNPRECEDENTED EVEN AMONG ALL THE WETLANDS BOARDS IN VIRGINIA IS, IS TO THE PROCEDURAL POSTURE HERE.
UM, SO I'M NOT SURE IF THERE'S AN ABSOLUTE RIGHT OR WRONG ANSWER HERE AS TO HOW WE PROCEED.
UH, I'M NOT SURE ANY OF US KNOW MR. BADGER.
WOULD, UH, YOU MAKE SURE THAT IT'S ON THE RECORD, UH, YOUR QUESTION, UH, AND WE WILL FOLLOW UP FROM THERE.
I THINK IT'S UNPRECEDENTED AND WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO, UH, MAYBE GET SOME MORE INFORMATION MM-HMM
I, I THINK THE QUESTION I HAVE, AND FOR THE RECORD, UH, IS DO WE NEED TO GO THROUGH A SHOW CALLS HEARING FIRST AND THEN AT THAT SHOW CALLS, HEARING IF, IF THE BOARD IS CONVINCED THAT IT'S APPROPRIATE, THEN WE ADVERTISE FOR THE FOLLOWING MONTH FOR A, UH, UH, MODIFICATION TO THE PERMIT? I, AND I DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER.
[00:50:01]
ON THE RECORD.UH, 'CAUSE I CERTAINLY DON'T KNOW, AND I'M NOT SURE THERE'S ANYONE THAT'S RUM THAT KNOWS RIGHT THIS MINUTE, BUT WE'LL KNOW BY NEXT MONTH.
I WOULD SAY THAT'S A, AS AS FAR AS I UNDERSTAND, A PERFECTLY ACCEPTABLE WAY TO DO IT.
AND UH, YEAH, I I WOULD JUST SAY IT IS THE BOARD'S DECISION HOW YOU ALL WANT TO HANDLE.
I THINK THAT MAY ANSWER THE QUESTION.
AND SIR, GO, UH, YES, GO AHEAD.
AND AND THE STRANGE CAVEAT IN THIS ALL WE HAVE ALREADY CHARGED HIM, DON'T, IF HE'S PAID FOR THE, IT HAS THE THING, THE STRANGE CAVEAT IN ALL THIS, HE'S ALREADY PAID FOR THE PROPERTY THAT HE'S OVERDONE ON.
I MEAN, LIKE I SAID, THERE'S SOME STRANGE IN ALL THIS.
WELL, I THINK WE'RE GETTING READY TO FIND OUT, UH, WHAT'S ANOTHER STRANGE ASPECT TO THIS THING.
SO WE CAN'T EVEN SAY, SAY WE APPROVE THE, THE, UH, I CALL IT, I CALL IT AN AFTER FACT PERMIT
WE'VE ALREADY CHARGED HIM FOR THE PROPERTY.
HE'S ALREADY PAID FOR THE, FOR THE OF IT.
UH, I GUESS MY QUESTION TO YOU, THIS IS GONNA BE LIKE, I SOUND LIKE A REALLY GOOD QUESTION,
UM, YOU, YOU HAVE TO ACT IN SOME WAY.
HERE'S, HERE'S WHAT WOULD HAPPEN.
I'LL, I'LL, SINCE SHE CAN'T TALK, BUT I CAN TALK SINCE I'M NOT ON THAT ANYMORE.
UH, IF WE DO NOTHING, THAT'S AN AFTER THE FACT ISSUE THAT VMRC WOULD REVIEW AND TAKE IT TO, UH, THEIR BOARD, I'M SURE BECAUSE WE DID NOTHING AND IT WAS, UH, I WE'RE GONNA DO SOMETHING.
THAT'S NOT, THAT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.
THAT'S NOT GONNA, THAT'S NOT GONNA HAPPEN.
I'M JUST SAYING WHAT I MEAN WHAT SAYING WHAT WAS, WHAT WAS YOUR, YOUR IDEA OF WHAT WOULD I JUST SITUATION I DID JUST WANNA MAKE, UM, AND IT MIGHT SEEM LIKE A MINOR POINT, BUT IT IS AN IMPORTANT POINT IS THAT THE AMENDMENT WAS SUBMITTED AS A REVISION TO A ACT TO A PERMIT.
IT HAS NOT, IT IS NOT A NEW APPLICATION FOR YOU ALL TO CONSIDER.
IT HAS BEEN UPLOADED IN THE DATABASE AS OF POTENTIAL REVISION OR AMENDMENT, BUT IT IS NOT A NEW APPLICATION FOR YOU TO CONSIDER.
SO REALLY WHAT WE'RE DEALING WITH RIGHT NOW, FORGET ABOUT THE AMENDMENT ITSELF, IS WE'VE GOT AN, UH, A PROJECT THAT'S NOT IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE PERMIT AT THIS POINT.
SO IF IT'S NOT IN COMPLIANCE AT THIS POINT, I THINK WE'VE GOTTA GET THAT STRAIGHT BEFORE WE CAN ACCEPT, UH, A, A MODIFICATION OR AN APPLICATION.
NOW WHETHER OR NOT WE CAN DO THAT ALL IN, I DON'T KNOW HOW WE CAN DO IT IN ONE HEAR HEARING.
I GUESS MY THOUGHT HERE IS TRYING TO SIMPLIFY A LITTLE BIT IS THAT MAYBE WE PUT THE COMPLAINT ON HOLD AND WE HEAR THE AMENDMENT FIRST.
I GUESS THAT'S ONE POSSIBLE PATHWAY, BUT I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S A CO CORRECT LEGAL THING THAT WE CAN DO.
I DON'T KNOW, ONCE A COMPLAINT IS FILED, I'M, I'M NOT USED TO THESE COMPLAINTS.
I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE NEED ABSOLUTELY TO HAVE TO ACT ON FIRST SO IT GETS A BUT YOU JUST INDICATED IT'S REALLY UP, UP TO THE WETLANDS BOARD TO MAKE THOSE DECISIONS ONE WAY OR THE OTHER.
IT IS UP TO YOU ALL HOW YOU WANT TO HANDLE IT.
UM, PROCEDURALLY, HOWEVER, WHAT I WOULD RECOMMEND IS CONSULTING COUNTY COUNSEL.
AS FAR AS WHAT WOULD BE THE BEST PATH FORWARD.
BECAUSE IT IS, IT IS A COMPLICATED, UH, MATTER.
I THINK IT'S VERY IMPORTANT THAT WE, UH, HAVE COUNSEL PRESENCE OR AT LEAST THEIR IDEAS ON THIS THING.
UH, WHAT WE'RE GONNA DO RIGHT NOW, THANK YOU MA'AM.
UM, RIGHT NOW I'D LIKE TO HAVE ANYONE THAT WISHES TO BE SWORN IN AND TALK ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR PROJECT.
UH, MR. BRITTON, YOU'RE ALL AT WHERE YOU ARE IF WE CAN HEAR YOU.
UH, I DON'T KNOW THAT, BUT HERE WE GO.
OKAY? YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO YELL AT US.
UH, FIRST OF ALL, I'M GONNA SWEAR YOU IN IF YOU DON'T MIND.
DO YOU FIRMLY SWEAR YOU TELL THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH IN ALL MATTERS BEFORE THIS BOARD? I AGREE.
UH, THIS IS MR. BRITTON THAT, UH, HAD THE JOB AT THE PERMIT, ET CETERA, ET CETERA.
AFTER THE PERMIT WAS SUBMITTED, UH, IN TALKING TO MR. WATSON, IT'S NOT 38 FEET DOWN, BUT GO BACK TO WHEN THE ORIGINAL PERMIT WAS SUBMITTED.
[00:55:01]
EXISTING BULKHEAD AT THAT TIME, BUT WE MEASURED THE EXISTING BULKHEAD MADE APPLICATION ASSUMING THAT THAT BULKHEAD WAS RIGHT.UH, AFTER WE FOUND OUT WE HAD A SURVEY, UH, WHICH SHOWS WHAT SIZE OF ON THE CHANNEL SIZE 50 FOOT AND THE OTHER PIECE WAS 38 AND UP 88 FEET, A HUNDRED FOOT LOCK.
THE BOYS MADE A MISTAKE AND I ADMITTED IT RIGHT AWAY TO HER DEATH BECAUSE SHE CAME OUT TO MOVE IT CORRECTED.
SO WE PULLED HER BACK TO THE 12 FOOT AND THEN 38 FOOT.
BUT IF 50 FOOT CHANGE THE FOUR SEVEN FOOT YOU FOLLOW ME TAKE OVERALL I'VE HEARD IT BEFORE.
I'M 16 FOOT FOUR INCHES FROM THE PROPERTY LINE.
NOW I'LL GIVE YOU FOUR FOOT OF LAND YOU SUPPOSED TO ORIGINAL.
IT'S SIMPLE BUT JUST USE COMMON SENSE.
BUT NONE OF THEM USED IT MORE LIKE MY COUNTY.
I THINK THIS, WE'VE HEARD THIS BEFORE.
UH, RIGHT NOW, DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING TO ADD AS OF THIS MOMENT? ALRIGHT, THAT GOOD SIR? SAY WHAT YOU WANT.
YOU CAN'T, WE HAD OUR FEELINGS CUT OUT.
YOU KNOW ME SAYING
PROBABLY GOING SOME US IT'S, IT'S JUST UNBELIEVABLE TO ME THAT CAN USE COMMON SENSE.
THE ENCROACHMENT IS A WHOLE LOT LESS THAN WHAT, WHAT WAS PLANNED.
GET WITH, I MEAN IT'S USE MATH.
BETH CAME OUT WITH ME RIGHT BEFORE SHE QUIT AND I SHOWED HER EXACTLY WHAT WE HAD.
WE PUT THE BUNK HEAD AT BEST FLAG.
I THOUGHT IT WAS A DONE DEAL AND HE COMES AFTER AND STARTS IT ALL OVER AGAIN AFTER BETH SIGNING OFF ON IT.
UM, IS THERE ANY OTHER COMMENT? PAUL? WOULD YOU LIKE TO? YEAH.
ANYTHING ELSE? UM, MR. WATSON, SIMPLY THE WHAT IS BUILT THERE DOES NOT MATCH THE PLAN THAT WAS APPROVED BY THE S IT DOES MATCH THE PLANS IS LETTING YOUR FEE PROOF IS EVERYTHING IS VEST NOW.
ALRIGHT SIR, THAT IS, UH, OUR ISSUE.
I THINK WE NEED TO TALK TO SOME COUNTY OFFICIALS AND, UM, GET SOME BETTER LEGAL ADVICE.
UH, DOES ANYONE, UH, ELSE, EXCUSE ME, UH, ANYONE ELSE HERE HAVE ANYTHING TO SAY DIRECTLY ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR JPA? IF NOT, THEN I'D LIKE TO CLOSE THE FLOOR, OPEN IT TO PUBLIC COMMENT.
ANYONE WISH TO SPEAK? ALRIGHT, WE'RE CLOSING IT.
WE'RE OPENING IT TO, UM, FOR DISCUSSION.
UM, DO WE NEED TO GET INTO THE REST OF THESE, UH, SWORN, SWORN COMPLAINTS AT THIS TIME? YES, SIR.
UM, MR. WATSON WANTS MORE BACK ON THIS SUBJECT OF, UM, 5.02.
SO, UH, WOULD YOU BRING US UP TO DATE? YOU DON'T NEED TO READ 'EM.
WE ALREADY GOT, UM, SO COMPLAINTS TWO THROUGH FIVE ARE SIMILARLY SITUATED.
THESE ARE FOUR LOTS IN CAPTAIN'S CODE WHERE BULK BULKHEAD WERE REPLACED WITH NO 11 FORD PERMIT OR BUILDING PERMIT.
AND, UH, JPA HAVE BEEN FILED, UM, WITHIN THE LAST TWO WEEKS OR SO FOR EACH ONE OF THESE.
SO WE HAVE A MATCHING JPA FOR EACH SWORN COMPLAINT.
UM, THOSE ARE SET TO BE HEARD AT THE APRIL 24TH, UH, MEETING.
UM, AS ARE, AS ARE THE, I WOULD ASK THE SWORN COMPLAINTS.
AND, UM, THE CONTRACTOR WAS MR. JEFF BROWN WHO'S HERE TODAY.
AND, UH, WOULD ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS THE BOARD WOULD HAVE ABOUT THESE.
UM, MR. BROWN, I DON'T KNOW IF WE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, BUT DO YOU HAVE ANY COMMENTS ABOUT THESE PARTICULAR COMPLAINTS YOU'D LIKE TO APPROACH AND SPEAK ABOUT 'EM? I MEAN, IS NOW THE TIME TO TALK? UH, THIS IS CERTAINLY EACH AND EVERY ONE.
MAY I SWEAR YOU IN, SIR? YES, SIR.
YOU SWEAR YOU'LL TELL THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH IN ALL MATTERS BEFORE THIS BOARD? YES, SIR.
AND IF YOU WOULD, UH, SORT OF RUN DOWN
[01:00:01]
OUR LIST AND, UH, TELL US YOUR SIDE OF THIS IF YOU DON'T MIND.WELL FIRST OF ALL, ACTUALLY APOLOGIZE THAT, YOU KNOW, I'M IN THIS SITUATION FOR THE PERMIT PROCESS AND I, AND THEY HAD NOT BEEN APPROVED.
UM, THIS KIND WAS DROPPED IN MY LAP ABOUT A MONTH AGO.
UM, 'CAUSE THIS KIND OF WASN'T MY JOB DUTIES.
UM, I HAD A PARTNER THAT HANDLED THIS, THE JPS, WHICH I'VE LEARNED THE TERMINOLOGY NOW 'CAUSE I'VE DUG IN AND TRIED TO FIGURE ALL THIS OUT.
UM, UNDER EXTER, YOU KNOW, UH, CIRCUMSTANCES THAT WOULD BE ON MY CONTROL.
UM, I DID NOT REALLY KNOW WHAT, WHAT HAD BEEN APPROVED AND WHAT HAD NOT BEEN APPROVED.
WE HAD A DESK THAT HAD DIFFERENT JOBS ON IT WITH DIFFERENT FILES.
UM, AND THE COMMUNICATION WITH MY PARTNER WHO HANDLED THIS WAS VERY MINIMAL.
UM, I ACTUALLY MADE A PHONE CALL WHEN ALL THIS TRANSPIRED AND, UM, ACTUALLY CALLED MR. WARD AND ASKED HIM IF HE WOULD KIND OF TAKE A LOOK AT EVERYTHING AND HELP ME MOVE FORWARD THIS SO I COULD GET A BETTER UNDERSTANDING.
'CAUSE I'M NOT FAMILIAR WITH THE STATE OF VIRGINIA'S PROCESS AND HOW THINGS ARE DONE.
YOU KNOW, BEING FROM SALISBURY, MARYLAND ALL MY LIFE YES, SIR.
AND DOING BUSINESS IN SALISBURY FOR 35 YEARS AND HAVING THE LICENSE IN, IN MARYLAND, WHAT I NEEDED.
I KNEW HOW TO MANEUVER AND WHAT I NEED TO DO AND WHAT I DIDN'T, WHAT I DON'T, YOU KNOW, DOWN HERE IN VIRGINIA.
SO I ASKED MR. WARD AND HE, YOU KNOW, OF COURSE HE WAS, YOU KNOW, TOLD ME, YOU KNOW, POLITELY HE WAS BUSY AND BUILDING A HOUSE.
AND SO MY NEXT MOVE WAS WHEN I CONTACTED BETH NUNLEY.
AND, UM, SHE CAME ON BOARD AND HELPED ME GO THROUGH THINGS THAT I NEEDED TO, YOU KNOW, TAKE CARE OF AND FILE.
AND, UM, ANYTHING THAT I NEED TO DO FROM HERE FORWARD IN WHICH WE HAVE, SHE'S HELPED ME FILE TO GET THE JPA AND, YOU KNOW, I WAS UNFAMILIAR WITH THE TERMINOLOGY, THE JPA AND THE EXACTLY WHAT I NEED IN THE PROCESS AND WHAT THE VR OR MRM RC NEEDS, WHAT THE WETLANDS NEEDS.
BUT I'VE LEARNED THAT AND I'VE LEARNED IT QUICKLY, YOU KNOW.
UM, AND WAS THERE, THESE JOBS WERE FINISHED BEFORE YOU EVEN CONTACT, UH, BETH, IS THAT CORRECT? THIS WAS MOVING FORWARD SO YOU'D KNOW WHAT YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO DO FOR THE NEXT TIME, I THINK.
YEAH, I THINK THREE WERE, THREE WERE FINISHED AND ONE WAS IN THE PROCESS OF BEING FINISHED.
BUT THAT, THAT'S COME TO A HALT.
I WHEN YOU YOU STOPPED THAT JOB? I STOPPED THE JOB.
BEFORE ANYBODY SAID STOP WORK, YOU KNOW, I STOPPED UNTIL I HAD FIGURED ALL THIS, WHAT I HAD GOING.
UM, THE LICENSING, THERE'S A LICENSING ISSUE TOO AS WELL.
AND I WAS UNAWARE OF THIS UNTIL LIKE, UH, I THINK LAST WEEK I HAVE AN EMAIL FROM MR. PAUL AND, UM, THAT MY PARTNER'S LICENSE WASN'T VALID IF HE WAS INCARCERATED, WHICH I DID NOT KNOW THIS 'CAUSE I THOUGHT THE LICENSE WAS WITH EASTERN SHORE MARINE ATTACHED TO THAT.
AND I DIDN'T, OF COURSE, HE BROUGHT UP MY ATTENTION WITH THE, WITH THE DPOR, YOU KNOW, THEIR, UM, RULES, WHICH I FILED APPLICATION OR FILED THE PAPERWORK ALREADY AND MAILED IT TO 'EM.
YOU GOTTA MAIL IT TO 'EM TO SUBMITTED TO 'EM SO I CAN BE APPROVED TO TAKE THE TEST.
UM, AND I HAVE STUDIED THE BOOK AND THE PAPERWORK AND, AND HAVE THE BOOKS.
I THINK WHAT WE'RE GONNA DO IS CHANGE UP FROM TYPICAL, UH, ROTATION HERE.
UM, FIRST OF ALL, IF, IF YOU WOULD, UH, REMAIN STANDING, LET'S SEE IF ANYONE ON THE BOARD WISHES TO RESPOND TO ANYTHING, ANY QUESTIONS, ANY COMMENTS.
MR. CHAIR, JUST AS NORMAL DISCLOSURE, I'M A MEMBER OF CAPTAINS CO YACHT, YACHT GOLF YACHT CLUB.
I HAVE NO POSITION OF AUTHORITY OR RESPONSIBILITY WITH, UH, CAPTAINS CO GOLF YACHT CLUB.
UH, I GUESS WHAT I'M CURIOUS ABOUT BEYOND GETTING A WETLANDS BOARD PERMIT, YOU HAVE TO GET A BUILDING PERMIT.
AND I GUESS, IS THAT SOMETHING THAT ALSO FELL THROUGH THE CRACKS? UH, I, I DON'T, DID YOU GET A BUILDING PERMIT FOR THESE, UH, BULK REPAIR BULKHEADS? I DID NOT.
IT'S, IT'S, IT'S UNDER MY UNDERSTANDING THAT BEFORE
[01:05:01]
YOU CAN EVEN GET A BUILDING PERMIT, THAT'S LIKE THE LAST PART OF THE PROCESS.YOU HAVE TO GET THE VMRC PAPERWORK, YOU HAVE TO GET THE WETLANDS PAPERWORK, AND THEN YOU CAN ACTUALLY GET YOUR BUILDING PERMIT ONCE ALL YOUR PAPERWORK COMES IN.
THAT'S YOUR LAST PIECE OF THE PUZZLE, THE WAY I UNDERSTAND IT.
SO THERE IS NO PERMITS ON ANY LEVEL THEN? BASICALLY THERE'S NO WETLANDS BOARD PERMIT, NO.
BMRC PERMITS? NO BUILDING PERMITS? NO.
THIS WAS THROWN IN MY LAP, YOU KNOW, WITH GOTCHA.
WITH THESE JOBS AND THESE PERMIT PROCESS, AND I REALIZE MAYBE I'M GOING IN TOO MUCH DETAIL, BUT IN TERMS OF THE REPAIR, WHAT, WHAT HAPPENS IN SOME OF THESE HOUSES I KNOW ARE CANALS, WAS IT A REPLACEMENT OF BULKHEAD OR WAS IT BUILT TWO FEET CHANNEL WORD ON SOME OF THESE BULKHEADS? UM, DO YOU RECALL IS THAT THESE, THESE WERE ALL REPLACEMENT REPLACE, BUT WHEN YOU SAY IN THE COVE, WHEN YOU SAY REPLACEMENT, WHAT PEOPLE DO, THEY DON'T REALLY REPLACE THE INKIND BULKHEAD.
THEY MOVE IT TWO FEET CHANNEL WORD NOW AND KEEP THE OLD BULKHEAD.
I JUST, MAYBE I'M ASKING TOO MUCH DETAIL, BUT THAT'S, I'M CURIOUS ABOUT THAT.
UM, MR. BADGER, SO THE BULKHEADS ON THESE PROJECTS, WERE THEY AT LOW TIDE? WERE THEY IN THE WATER? YES.
MEANING AT LOW TIDE WAS THEIR WATER? YES.
SO THE BULKHEADS THEMSELVES MAY NOT BE IN OUR JURISDICTION.
UH, THAT WAS MY NEXT QUESTION.
LOW WATER, UH, HAD IT EBBED OUT BEYOND THE BULKHEAD YES.
IS THAT RIGHT, SIR? NO BOTTLE IN FRONT OF IT.
YOU HAVE SOME OUS BOTTLE BY, IT'S, IT DOESN'T GO DRY ON TIME.
OTHER TYP, TYPICALLY IT DOES NOT.
WHAT HAPPENS IS THAT WHEN THERE IS A REPAIR OR BULKHEAD IN CAPI SCOPE, TYPICALLY, UNLESS THERE'S SOME, IF THE BULKHEAD COMPLETELY, UH, DESTROYED OR PARTIALLY NOT USABLE, TYPICALLY IS THAT IT DOESN'T BECOME COME BEFORE THE WETLANDS BOARD.
USUALLY IT'S JUST A NOTATION TO THE ARMY CORPS ENGINEERS AND WHAT THEY USUALLY RECOMMEND NOWADAYS TO BUILD THE BULKHEAD TWO FEET CHANNEL BOARD IN WHICH YOU RETAIN THE OLD BULKHEAD, BUT JUST MOVE IT TWO FEET.
SO THAT THE MANY BULKHEADS BUILT IN CAPTAIN'S CODE REPAIRED, I SHOULD SAY, THAT HAVE NOT INVOLVED THE WETLANDS BOARD PERMISSION BECAUSE IT WAS HANDLED THROUGH THE ARMY CORPS ENGINEERS BECAUSE IT'S A MANMADE CANAL AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
THE ONLY PART THAT WOULD GET US IN OUR JURISDICTION IS THE BACKFILL.
AND IF THERE IS ANY, IF THE, THE, UH, THE, THE, UH, BULKHEAD WAS, UH, GOT DISPAIRED AND THE WATER IS IN THE BACKSIDE OF IT AND BECOMES UN NON VEGETATED WETLANDS, THEN WE WERE GETTING INVOLVED.
WE HAD A FEW OF THOSE ALREADY.
BUT TYPICALLY IF IT'S JUST A REPAIR, WE DON'T HEAR THE PERMIT.
IS THERE WATER TO THE BULKHEAD? YES.
SO THE ONLY THING THAT WOULD BE POTENTIALLY IN OUR JURISDICTION IS EITHER THE RETURN WALLS, IF THERE ARE RETURN WALLS OR THE FILL.
I THINK, I THINK YOU WERE CORRECT.
UM, DOESN'T REALLY SOLVE ALL THE PROBLEMS HERE.
IT DOESN'T, I'M JUST TRYING TO FIGURE IT, JUST JURISDICTION.
ANYONE ELSE HAVE MR. MR. CHAIRMAN? UH, SURE.
I DON'T KNOW THIS GENTLEMEN, GENTLEMAN FROM ADAM, BUT I CAN TELL YOU THAT HIS STORY IS TOTALLY THE TRUTH.
'CAUSE I KNOW THE PARTNER, HE'S A FRIEND OF MINE, AND, UH, HE WAS THE LICENSE HOLDER.
LIKE I SAID, I DON'T KNOW YOU FROM ADAM.
IT'S NOT LIKE I'M STICKING UP FOR YOU AND I AM, THIS IS NOT A STORY, THIS IS REALITY.
I, I'M GONNA TELL YOU THAT UPFRONT.
HE'S NOT COMING HERE WITH SOMETHING HE MADE UP.
HE'S, HE'S EVERYTHING HE SAID, HERE IS THE TRUTH.
WANT EVERYBODY UNDERSTAND THAT? I THINK EVERY, IT'S NOT SOMETHING HE'S COMING HERE.
IT'S NOT SOMETHING HE'S COMING HERE SAYING, YOU KNOW? I GOTCHA.
SO YOU WERE LEFT HOLDING THE BAG.
DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT THE, UH, PROGRESSION UNTIL YOU WERE ALMOST FINISHED.
STOPPED THE LAST JOB OR A JOB.
AND YOU'RE IN THE PROCESS OF GETTING THE LICENSING A, THE, UM, PERMIT APPLICATIONS JOINT? YES, SIR.
AND HAVE BETH DON, SHE'S ON BOARD HELPING ME, GUIDE ME THROUGH THE PROCESS.
BETH IS HELPING YOU AT THIS POINT, STEER ME IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.
[01:10:01]
YOU'VE HEARD THIS, UH, WE, WE AGREE, UH, WITH MR. TAYLOR.I THINK HE DID THE BEST HE COULD UNDER THE CONDITIONS.
I'M NOT SURE THAT IT'S PROPER PROCEDURE, BUT I'D LIKE TO HEAR WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY ABOUT IT.
UM, SO I RECEIVED THE COMPLAINTS ONE DAY.
UM, I WILL GIVE MR. BROWN, UH, CREDIT, HE CALLED ME THE NEXT MORNING, UM, OUT OF THE BLUE.
AND I MET HIM, UM, AT THE SITES, UH, THE NEXT OR A COUPLE DAYS LATER.
UM, AND I DO UNDERSTAND THE SITUATION WITH, UH, THE PERSON HE WAS WORKING WITH WHO IS INCARCERATED, UM, WHO, WHO DID OR WHO HAS A LICENSE.
BUT, UM, I, I WILL POINT OUT A FEW THINGS.
I MEAN, THERE WERE NO OB OBVIOUSLY, NO PAPERWORK WAS, UH, GIVEN MR. BROWN SHOWING ANY OF WHAT HE WAS SUPPOSED TO DO, UM, THAT HAD BEEN APPROVED.
UM, THESE WERE BUILT OBVIOUSLY WITHOUT BUILDING PERMITS.
AS HE SAID, NO INSPECTIONS WERE CALLED IN.
UH, THE DEAD MEN ARE BURIED IN THREE OF THE FOUR SITUATIONS.
UM, SO IT'S A LITTLE HARD TO TAKE THAT HE WAS TRYING TO DO THE RIGHT THING AT EVERY STEP.
I WOULD JUST TELL THE BOARD WHEN, UH, THREE OF THE FOUR BULKHEADS WERE DONE AND THE LAST ONE WAS DONE.
OTHER THAN BURYING THE DEAD MEN, UH, WITH NO INSPECTIONS BEING CALLED IN AND NO PAPERWORK FROM ANYBODY, NO MATTER WHAT HE WAS TOLD.
UM, AND THE, UH, DEAD MEN THAT WERE EXPOSED ON THE LAST PROJECT, UH, WOULD YOU DESCRIBE THEM AS ADEQUATE? WE HAVE NOT INSPECTED, UH, AN INSPECTOR HAS NOT LOOKED AT THOSE.
UM, WHILE I HAVE SOME GENERAL KNOWLEDGE, I'M NOT THE PERSON TO, UH, TO MAKE SURE THAT IT'S THE RIGHT TYPE OF CONNECTION OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT, OR WHETHER, YOU KNOW, THE DISTANCE.
I, I, I HAVEN'T, YOU KNOW, OF COURSE WE DON'T HAVE THE BUILD PLANS FOR THESE EITHER.
SO WHILE I DID SEE THEM, THAT'S ALL I CAN TELL THE BOARD.
UM, UH, BUILDING PERMITS HAVE BEEN APPLIED FOR.
BUT, UM, YOU CANNOT WORK UNDER SOMEBODY ELSE'S LICENSE IN THIS MANNER, EVEN IF, UH, EVEN IF THEY'VE BEEN APPLIED FOR BEFORE THE CONSTRUCTION STARTED.
I CERTAINLY UNDERSTAND THE, THE, THE, THE PERSON WHO HAS THE LICENSE HAS AN OBLIGATION TO, UH, SUPERVISE AND MANAGE THE PROJECT.
AND, UM, HIS BUSINESS PARTNER WAS IN NO POSITION TO DO THAT.
SO THAT WOULD BE ANOTHER ISSUE.
UM, EVEN IF EVERYTHING HAD BEEN APPLIED FOR PROPERLY, IT'S, THEY STILL WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN ABLE TO BE BILLED, UH, BY MR. BROWN.
'CAUSE HE DOES NOT HAVE A, A, A LICENSE IN VIRGINIA.
UH, I CERTAINLY UNDERSTAND, AND THE TRUTH BE KNOWN, UH, NEVER BUILT, BEEN A CONTRACTOR, BUT I DIDN'T KNOW UNTIL TODAY IF YOUR PARTNER HAD THE LICENSE WAS AND WAS INCARCERATED.
UH, AND THERE ARE OTHER, THERE ARE ORGANIZATIONAL LICENSES TOO, WHERE YOU CAN DESIGNATE CERTAIN PEOPLE.
UH, THIS IS A SOLE PROPRIETOR LICENSE, I WAS TOLD BY DEPORT, WHERE YOU, YOU ARE NOT ABLE TO DO THAT.
UM, AND THE FINAL THING I'LL SAY IS THAT, UH, MY UNDERSTANDING IS ALL FOR THESE BULKHEADS OR BILL CHANNEL ORDERED OF THE OLD BULKHEAD.
SO WE NOW BEEN DEPRIVED OF THE ABILITY TO SEE IF THERE WAS ANY OF NON VEGITATIVE WETLANDS, OR TO WHAT EXTENT THOSE BULKHEADS, UH, HAD BEEN FAILING AND THUS WITHIN THE WETLANDS BOARD JURISDICTION.
UM, SO IT MAKES, OBVIOUSLY OUR JOB DIFFICULT TO DETERMINE WHAT, WHAT SITUATION THERE WAS TO BEGIN WITH TO DETERMINE, UH, THOSE ISSUES.
I BELIEVE EVERYONE AROUND THIS TABLE, UH, HAS BEEN HERE LONG ENOUGH TO KNOW THAT WE'VE GIVEN AFTER THE FACT PERMITS IN CERTAIN INSTANCES, UH, WE HAVE ALSO HAD THE, UM, PREROGATIVE TO HAVE SOMEONE PULL EVERYTHING OUT SO IT CAN BE SEEN.
UM, ONE FINAL THING IS, I JUST GOT A CALL FROM ONE OF THE OWNERS JUST WITHIN THE LAST TWO HOURS LOOKING FOR AN EXPLANATION AS TO WHAT WAS GOING ON.
UM, GOT A CALL YESTERDAY FROM ANOTHER OWNER LOOKING FOR AN EXPLANATION.
UM, SO THESE SWORN COMPLAINTS ARE AGAINST THE OWNERS.
UM, WHO, YOU KNOW, I'VE SPOKEN TO AND I, I DO BELIEVE THEY HAD NO IDEA WHAT WAS GOING ON AND THE LACK OF PERMITS.
BUT, UH, JUST WANNA POINT THAT OUT TO THE BOARD, THAT, UH, AND THERE, I'M NOT SURE HOW YOU WANT TO PROCEED WITH THESE TODAY OR THE NEXT HEARING, BUT WE DO HAVE SOME OWNERS WHO DON'T SEEM TO KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON.
I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT CONVERSATIONS THEY'VE HAD WITH ANYBODY INVOLVED OTHER THAN ME.
UM, WE HAVE SORT OF, UH, GOTTEN AWAY FROM WHAT WE WANTED.
[01:15:02]
WE NEED TO ASK FOR.DO WE NEED SOME GUIDANCE FROM COUNTY? UH, MR. PAMED, UH, DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING YOU'D LIKE TO SHARE WITH US AS FAR AS THE LEGALITIES OR THE NEED TO SEEK SOME ADVICE? THIS IS MR. LEE PAMED.
UH, MAY I SWEAR YOU IN, SIR? SURE.
DO YOU SWEAR THAT YOU'LL TELL THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH IN ALL MATTERS BEFORE THIS BOARD? I DO.
YOU HAVE ANYTHING TO OFFER US, LEE, PAM, A DEPUTY COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR FOR COMMUNITY AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, AND I'M OVER THE, UH, ENVIRONMENTAL PROGRAMS, WHICH SUPPORTS THE WETLANDS BOARD.
SO IF I UNDERSTAND THE QUESTION CORRECTLY, YOU WANT TO KNOW, UH, WHAT THE NEXT STEP SHOULD BE IN TERMS OF, UH, IN TERMS OF EXPLAINING PROCEDURALLY LEGALITY? UH, MORE THAN THAT, UM, UH, THIS IS THE FIRST TIME I'VE BEEN THROUGH THIS.
WE'VE CERTAINLY DONE SOME AFTER THE FACT, BUT IT WASN'T, UH, AS MUCH AS THIS.
SO, UH, DO YOU HAVE ANY COMMENTS OR GEMS OF WISDOM? WELL, UH, JUST AT A VERY HIGH LEVEL, UH, WHAT WE HAVE, WHAT WE'VE COME ACROSS, NOT JUST WITH REGARDS TO BULKHEADS, BUT BUILDING PERMITS, LAND DISTURBANCE PERMITS FOR COMMERCIAL, UH, FOR COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENT, WHERE, UM, OUR PROCESSES AREN'T BEING, YOU KNOW, THERE, THERE'S, THERE'S VERY LITTLE DUE DILIGENCE ON BEHALF OF SOME FOLKS, UH, BEFORE THEY START THEIR, BEFORE THEY START THEIR PROJECT, WHATEVER THAT IS ON THE BACK END.
WE ALSO HAVE FOLKS WHO WILL GAIN APPROVAL FOR, UH, FOR A PARTICULAR PROJECT AND THEN NOT BUILD TO THE APPROVED PLAN.
AND WE DON'T FIND THAT OUT UNTIL THE VERY END.
SO WHAT WE'RE DOING IS WE ARE, WE'RE KEEPING A BETTER EYE ON, ON THOSE THINGS.
UM, IF, UH, AND, AND BECAUSE THERE ARE SO MANY STAKEHOLDERS INVOLVED IN THE BULKHEAD, UH, YOU KNOW, THE BULKHEAD, UH, CONSTRUCTION BUSINESS, IF YOU WILL, UH, WHAT WE WANT TO DO IS TO MAKE SURE THAT, UH, EVERYTHING IS BEING APPLIED FAIRLY.
THERE ARE SOME CONTRACTORS THAT, THAT, THAT DO WHAT THEY NEED TO DO.
THERE ARE SOME CONTRACTORS THAT NEED TO DO A LITTLE BIT MORE DUE DILIGENCE UPFRONT BEFORE STARTING, AND THEN ALSO, UM, HOLDING THEM TO THE APPROVED PLAN.
UH, THAT IS, AGAIN, A VERY HIGH LEVEL COMMENT.
IF THERE ARE SOME GAPS IN THE KNOWLEDGE IN TERMS OF, UH, IN TERMS OF LEGALITY, WHICH I TRUST PAUL HAS, UH, YOU KNOW, IS, IS, UH, MOVING FORWARD, UH, IN CONJUNCTION OR RATHER IN COMPLIANCE WITH, UH, WITH OUR PROCESSES, THEN I WOULD JUST ASK THAT THE WETLANDS BOARD MOVE FORWARD WITH, YOU KNOW, ESSENTIALLY, UH, HOLDING THE CONTRACTORS TO THEIR APPROVED PLANS.
AND, UM, AND WE'RE ALSO ADJUSTING OUR PROCESSES IN TERMS OF, UH, BUILDING INSPECTIONS.
SO, UH, SO WE DO WANNA SEE THE DEAD MEN BEFORE THEY'RE COVERED UP.
WE WANT TO KNOW EXACTLY, YOU KNOW, HOW MANY, YOU KNOW, IF, IF THEY'RE, UH, IF THEY'RE, UM, UH, YOU KNOW, INSERTING, UH, UH, COLUMNS OR, OR, OR PIERS INTO THE, INTO THE, UH, UH, YOU KNOW, INTO THE SOIL, HOW MANY BLOWS.
WE WANT TO KNOW ALL THE DETAILS, UH, EXACTLY.
SO THAT WE KNOW, UH, WHAT IS IT THEY'RE GONNA BE DOING AND THAT THEY ARE FOLLOWING THE PLAN.
I DON'T KNOW IF THAT ANSWERS YOUR QUESTION, BUT AGAIN, IF, IF THERE ARE SOME GAPS IN KNOWLEDGE, WE'D BE HAPPY TO TRY TO, UM, UH, COVER THOSE FOR YOU AS LONG AS WE KNOW EXACTLY WHAT, WHAT IT IS THAT YOU WANT.
UM, AND I THINK, UH, YES, SIR.
OKAY, BECAUSE, SO JUST WAY WE ARE TRYING TO STRUGGLE NOW, IF THAT'S WHAT WE'RE DOING, I GUESS YOU ALSO, BUILDING PERMITS IS AFTER THE FACT BUILDING PERMITS, BUT YOU NEED TO DO THAT AFTER WE GET WHATEVER APPROPRIATE GROUP NEEDS TO APPROVE THE BULKHEADS, THAT'S WHEN YOU STEP BACK IN WITH YOUR AFTER PERMIT, AFTER THE BUILDING PERMIT.
SO AS EVERYBODY IS STARTING TO FIGURE OUT, THERE ARE MULTIPLE LAYERS OF, OR THERE ARE MULTIPLE APPROVALS THAT HAVE TO BE GAINED BEFORE YOU E EVEN CUT EVEN SAW ONE PIECE OF WOOD OR SWING ONE HAMMER.
SO, UH, YOU KNOW, VMRC REVIEW AND APPROVAL IF NECESSARY.
DEFINITELY WET WINDS, BOARD APPROVAL FOR BULK HEADS, REVETMENTS, ANYTHING INVOLVING YOUR JURISDICTION.
AND THEN FOR THOSE, UH, FOR THOSE ACTIVITIES THAT REQUIRE BUILDING PERMITS, WHICH IN THIS CASE BULK HEADS ARE ESSENTIALLY CLASSIFIED AS RETAINING WALLS, RETAINING WALLS ARE COVERED BY THE UNIFORM STATEWIDE BUILDING CODE THAT, UM, THAT A BUILDING PERMIT BE OBTAINED FOR, UH, FOR RETAINING WALLS.
NOT SO MUCH FURTHER REVETMENTS, BUT DEFINITELY, UM, ANYTHING WITHIN, UH, UH, THAT, THAT REQUIRES A BUILDING PERMIT.
THESE ARE STRUCTURES AND THEY ARE SUBJECT TO THE BUILDING CODE.
APPRECIATE, I THINK YOU ARE CORRECT, AND THERE ARE A LOT OF QUESTIONS TO BE ANSWERED.
AND I THINK THE FIRST ONE IS A VISUAL
[01:20:01]
BY SOMEONE.UH, AND I ASSUME THAT IS YOU PAUL, UH, TO DETERMINE WHAT TIEBACKS ARE VISIBLE AT THIS POINT.
DID THEY USE ANY, UH, DEAD MEN, ET CETERA, ET CETERA? UH, IS, IS THAT A PLACE TO START BEFORE WE DETERMINE WHAT LEGALITIES UH, WE, WE HAVE TO GO, GO TO THE COUNTY, UH, LEGAL DEPARTMENT AND ASK? WELL, I GUESS I COULD SAY THAT, UM, I OBVIOUSLY HAVE REVIEWED THE, UH, AKIMA COUNTY WETLANDS ORDINANCE, WHICH IS A, UH, U UH, WHICH IS A UNIFORM ORDINANCE, UH, THAT THE STATE MAKES US ADOPT AS TO, UH, THE BOARD'S ENFORCEMENT POWERS.
IT'S NOT EXACTLY CRYSTAL CLEAR.
UM, OUT OF AN ABUNDANCE OF CAUTION, MY INTENTION WAS TO PRESENT THE SWORN COMPLAINTS TO THE BOARD TODAY TO SET THEM FOR A HEARING, UH, TO GIVE THE OWNERS AND EVERYONE PROPER NOTICE OF, OF WHATEVER'S GONNA HAPPEN BEFORE THEM.
I, I HAVE MAILED THEM THE SWORN COMPLAINTS A FEW WEEKS AGO.
UM, I BELIEVE I'VE HEARD FROM ALL FOUR OF THEM, BUT IT'S BEEN A HECTIC MORNING.
AND I KNOW I'VE JUST GOTTEN A COUPLE PHONE CALLS, UH, WHERE I'VE SPOKEN TO 'EM ABOUT IT.
UH, BUT THAT WAS MY INTENTION AND MY INTERPRETATION OF, UH, THE WETLANDS COURT COORDINATES IS THAT, UM, WOULD SAY THAT IT'S, I DON'T THINK THE WETLANDS BOARD ORDINANCE, UH, PROHIBITS A HEARING IMMEDIATELY ON A SWORN COMPLAINT.
I DIDN'T SEE ANY PROHIBITION IN IT, BUT IT DIDN'T SEEM LIKE GOOD PRACTICE TO ME, TO, UH, TO, TO PROCEED IN THAT MANNER.
I, I GUESS YOU COULD SAY, BECAUSE I THINK EVERYBODY DESERVES A FAIR NOTICE OF WHAT'S GOING ON BEFORE ANYTHING, ANYTHING HAPPENS IS THAT'S MY TAKE ON WHAT THE ORDINANCE, UH, SETS FORTH AND MY APPROACH TO IT.
I, I THINK YOU'RE CORRECT, AND I'D LIKE TO HEAR FROM AROUND IT.
MR. WARD, YOU HAVE SOME COMMENT, UH, SORT OF OUTTA SEQUENCE HERE, BUT, UH, JUST PLEASE THE BOARD.
I, I JUST, I WASN'T GONNA SPEAK ON THIS, BUT SINCE MR. BROWN BORROWED UP MY NAME, I WANTED TO CLARIFY A COUPLE OF THINGS.
UM, I HAD NO INTENTION OF SPEAKING.
UM, BUT ON THE 18TH OF FEBRUARY, I DID SPEAK WITH MR. BROWN.
HE DID CONTACT ME AND ASKED ME IF I'D BE INTERESTED IN GOING, UM, AND ARE GOING ASSISTING HIS CLIENTS WITH SECURING PERMITS THROUGH THE JPA PROCESS.
I DID TURN HIM DOWN BASED ON MY SCHEDULING.
UM, AT NO POINT DURING THAT CONVERSATION WAS I ADVISED THAT THERE WAS WORK GOING ON THAT DIDN'T HAVE PERMITS.
UM, I WASN'T ADVISED OF WHAT JOBS HE WAS WORKING ON.
THE CONVERSATION WAS MOVING FORWARD.
WILL YOU OFFER SOME ASSISTANCE? UM, I DID WANNA MENTION MR. EK'S COMMENT, UM, REGARDING THE FACT THAT MOST, UH, MOST PROJECTS IN CAPTAIN'S COVE DON'T COME IN FRONT OF THE BOARD FOR BULKHEAD REPLACEMENT.
UM, I CAN VERIFY, UH, THAT THAT'S NOT TRUE.
UM, NOT, NOT ALL OF THEM ARE, ALL OF THEM ARE NOT EXEMPT.
I HAVE BEEN IN FRONT OF THE BOARD FOR OTHER WETLAND ISSUES IN CAPTAIN'S COVE.
UM, MR. WATSON AND I ARE ACTUALLY WORKING ON A PROJECT FROM MR. BARTELL, WHERE ONE LOT, ONE LOT HAS A QUESTIONABLE AMOUNT OF, OF POSSIBLE MUD IN FRONT OF IT.
THE OTHER IMMEDIATELY ADJACENT TO IT DOES NOT, UM, YOU KNOW, SOIL COMING, SOIL COMING OUT OF THE BULKHEADS CAN CREATE A DIFFERENT SITUATION IN FRONT OF A BULKHEAD 50 FEET AWAY FROM THE NEIGHBOR'S PROPERTY.
UM, I'M ALSO, UH, ONE OF THESE, ONE OF THE PROPERTY OWNERS UP HERE, UH, MR. WINGARD, I ACTUALLY DID A PERMIT FOR MR. WINGARD A WHILE BACK.
I WAS IN FRONT OF THE WETLANDS BOARD FOR THAT PROJECT FOR ANOTHER LOT THAT HE OWNS DOWN THE CANAL.
UM, WHEN I APPLY FOR BUILDING PERMITS WITH AKIMA COUNTY, I HAVE TO HAVE MY, UH, CLIENT COMPLETE AN OWNER'S CONSENT FORM.
UM, THAT OWNER CONSENT FORM HAS TO BE NOTARIZED IN ORDER FOR ME TO SPEAK OR ACT ON BEHALF OF EITHER OF THOSE PROPERTY OWNERS.
THE COUNTY, MR. PAM BID STAFF WILL NOT EVEN LOOK AT AN APPLICATION IF I DON'T HAVE AN OWNER'S CONSENT FORM SIGNED, SO TO SPEAK, ON BEHALF OF SOMEONE.
WITHOUT HAVING THAT NOTARIZED OWNER CONSENT FORM RAISES PROBLEMS AS MR. WATSON JUST BROUGHT UP, WHERE A PROPERTY OWNER MAY OR MAY NOT KNOW THAT THIS IS EVEN GOING ON, ON THEIR PROPERTY.
I DID TEXT ONE OF THE PROPERTY OWNERS TO LET HIM KNOW THAT HIS NAME WAS UP ON THAT WALL.
UM, ALSO AN, AN ADDITIONAL PERMIT THAT WAS NOT MENTIONED IN THIS PROCESS IS THE ENVIRONMENTAL CONTROL COMMITTEE IN CAPTAIN'S COVE.
UM, ACTUALLY I HAVE HAD A GREATER HARDSHIP OVER THE LAST 60 DAYS IN SECURING PERMISSION FROM, UH, THE CAPTAIN'S COVE MANAGEMENT TO REPLACE BULKHEADS IN CAPTAIN'S COVE THAN I'VE EVER RECEIVED FROM THE BOARD VMRC OR THE ARMY CORPS.
UM, THAT PROCESS RECENTLY TOOK FOUR MONTHS FOR MONTHS FOR ME TO GET SIX BULKHEAD PERMITS THROUGH THE ENVIRONMENTAL CONTROL COMMITTEE PROCESS.
UM, IT'S, THIS IS NOT, THIS IS NOT A, A, A SIMPLY A COUNTY WETLANDS BOARD ISSUE.
IT'S THERE, THERE'S AN, THAT OTHER FACTOR OF THE ENVIRONMENTAL CONTROL COMMITTEE, THE CAPTAIN'S COVE, UM, REQUIREMENT FOR THE HOA TO GET THROUGH THAT PROCESS.
UH, NOT THAT THAT'S THE BOARD'S CONCERN, BUT IT'S JUST ANOTHER, IT'S ANOTHER FACTOR IN THIS
[01:25:01]
PROCESS.UM, AND I ALSO WANTED TO MENTION THE, UM, THE NOTIFICATION OF THE PROPERTY OWNERS.
UM, CAPTAINS COVE HAS A, AS A REQUIREMENT, SOMETHING QUITE DIFFERENT FROM MACK COUNTY.
WHEN I SECURE A BUILDING PERMIT IN MACK COUNTY, I DO NOT HAVE TO NOTIFY THE ADJACENT PROPERTY OWNER THAT I'M SECURING A BUILDING PERMIT.
CAPTAIN'S COVE, HOWEVER, DOES HAVE A REQUIREMENT THAT THE NEIGHBORING PROPERTY OWNERS HAVE TO BE INFORMED OF, OF AN ACTIVITY GETTING READY TO HAPPEN THAT REQUIRES A BUILDING PERMIT IN AKIMA COUNTY.
SO THERE'S, THERE'S A LOT OF NOTIFICATIONS THAT HAVE BEEN MISSED ON THESE FOUR PRO, THESE FOUR BULKHEAD PROJECTS.
UM, AND, AND I JUST, I JUST, SO, UM, I'LL, I WILL CONCLUDE THAT WITH, AND, AND I DIDN'T WANNA SPEAK, BUT WHEN MY NAME WAS MENTIONED, I WANTED TO CLARIFY A FEW THINGS.
THANK YOU, UH, GENTLEMEN, THE BOARD, UM, WE'VE SORT OF GONE AROUND AND AROUND AND AROUND WITH THIS THING, AND I THINK THAT IT IS TIME TO, UH, OFFER A CONTINUANCE AND LEARN AS MUCH AS WE POSSIBLY CAN AT THIS POINT IN TIME.
AND I'D LIKE TO HEAR VIEWS OF THE BOARD ON THAT.
WELL, I, I LIKE MR. WARD, HIT IT, CHUCK WARD HIT IT ON THE HEAD IN REGARDS TO WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE THE REQUEST.
I KNOW THAT IF WE CAN DO THIS, BUT EVERY ADJACENT PROPERTY OWNER NEXT TO THESE COMPLAINTS, THEY'D BE NOTIFIED THAT THAT PROPERTY OWNER HAS A COMPLAINT AGAINST HIM.
I JUST THINK THAT, I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S ANY RULES THAT WOULD ALLOW US TO DO THAT, BUT I THINK THAT WOULD BE A PROPER COURTEOUS WAY OF DOING IT SO THEY'RE AWARE OF THE SITUATION.
THEY WOULD BE NOTIFIED IF WE GET TO THAT POINT.
WELL, THE THING IS, THE POINT I WANNA CLARIFY WITH THAT IS THAT AS NOTED, IF THE TIDE RISES AND FALLS ON A BULKHEAD, IT'S REALLY ONLY GONNA BE THE ARMY CORPS ENGINEERS THAT ARE GOING TO GET THE APPROVAL FOR THAT PARTICULAR BULKHEAD.
THERE'S SOME OTHER ISSUES IN TERMS OF UNVEGETATED WETLANDS OR SOMETHING, OR SOME WATER CAME THROUGH THE BULKHEAD, YOU KNOW, THEN WE WOULD HEAR IT.
BUT IN A LOT OF CASES, IF THE BULKHEAD JUST NEEDS TO BE EXTENDED TWO FEET CHANNEL WORD, WE WILL NOT HEAR IT.
AND I HAVE TO NOTE ON SPEAKING TO THE ARMY CORPS ENGINEERS, THEY DO NOT NOTIFY ADJACENT PROPERTY OWNERS IF THERE'S A REPAIR OR MODIFICATION TO BULKHEAD THAT DOESN'T REQUIRE THE WHITMAN'S BOARD REVIEW.
SO WHAT I'M ASKING AND REQUESTING THAT PEOPLE WHO ON THE NET NEIGHBORS TO THE COMPLAINT BE NOTIFIED TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY ARE TOLD WHAT'S GOING ON.
I KNOW OF NOTHING PROHIBITING THAT, AND I THINK IT'S A GOOD IDEA.
AND I WOULD ALSO ADD THAT THERE ARE JPA FOR EACH OF THESE PROJECTS.
SO THEY'LL GET NOTIFICATION OF THE JPA OF COURSE, BUT NOT NOTIFICATION OF THE VIOLATION.
HAVE WE RECEIVED THE JPA? WE HAVE.
UH, SOME OF 'EM A WEEK OR SO AGO, AND SOME OF 'EM JUST A COUPLE DAYS AGO.
I, FRANKLY, I THINK BM C'S BEEN A LITTLE, THEY'VE HAD A LOT OF TO GET THROUGH THE PROCESS, BUT I'VE RECEIVED THE LAST COUPLE IN THE LAST, UH, MAYBE MONDAY OR TUESDAY.
AND YOU DID MAKE NOTE THAT, UH, THEY ARE ALL GONNA RECEIVE LETTERS THAT WE HAVE THIS ISSUE.
DID YOU SAY YOU WERE GONNA DO THAT? UH, THEY'VE ALL RECEIVED A LETTER.
HEY, THEY HAVE, AND I BELIEVE I'VE SPOKEN TO ALL FOUR OF THEM, BUT I'VE GOTTEN A LOT OF CALLS IN THE LAST DAY OR SO.
BUT I'M ALMOST CERTAIN I'VE SPOKEN TO ALL FOUR LAND UH, OWNERS.
ALL, ALL OF THESE ON A MANMADE ANNOUNCEMENT, THEY MM-HMM
I DUNNO HOW THAT ONE, THAT'S WHY SMILING.
ARE THESE ADJOINING LOTS OR SCATTERED? UH, TWO LOTS ARE ADJOINING AND I BELIEVE THE OTHER TWO LOTS ARE ADJOINING TOO.
I, I'VE BEEN OUT AND VISITED THEM.
I DON'T QUITE REMEMBER WHETHER THE OTHER TWO ARE ADJOINING.
BUT I WAS JUST CURIOUS IF THE, THE WHOLE SECTION WAS GOING BAD.
THEY ARE ON, THEY ARE ALL ON THE SAME MANMADE CANAL WITHIN A FEW HUNDRED YARDS OF EACH OTHER.
I, I KNOW THIS IS A DIFFICULT QUESTION THIS HANK BADGER, UH, TO ANSWER AT THIS POINT.
BUT WOULD WE, WOULD YOU THINK THE BOARD, THIS IS A REASONABLE ALIGNMENT FOR THESE FIVE OR FOUR? THEY, THERE DOES NOT APPEAR TO BE ANY ISSUE WITH THE ALIGNMENT.
SO THEY, THEY DO LOOK LIKE PERFECTLY PERMITTABLE PROJECTS.
SO THIS, IF WE ACCEPT THE APPLICATION RIGHT, AND, AND HEAR IT NEXT MONTH, IF EVERYTHING, UH, PROCESS WISE WENT THROUGH CORRECTLY, UM, IT WOULD BE CONSIDERED AN AFTER THE FACT APPLICATION.
AND THERE IS A SECTION IN THE CODE THAT WE COULD FIND THEM IN CIVIL, UH, I GUESS IT'S A CIVIL CHARGE.
THEY MAY HAVE TO AGREE TO THAT.
I'M NOT, I'M NOT EXACTLY SURE, BUT I I I DO THINK THAT'S THE LANGUAGE UP TO $10,000 PER CORRECT
[01:30:01]
FOR THE BOARD.IF THEY DO NOT AGREE, THE BOARD COULD REFER TO CIRCUIT COURT.
OR, OR TO THE COUNTY ATTORNEY FOR ENFORCEMENT IN CIRCUIT COURT.
JUST ADD A LITTLE BIT, ANOTHER BIT OF COMPLICATION ON THEM.
MS. PAUL MENTIONED TO ME THAT SOME OF THESE LOTS WERE SOLD RECENTLY.
SO THE OWNERS WHO ACTUALLY MAY HAVE DONE THE VIOLATION AND SOLD TO SOME NEW OWNER MM-HMM
JUST TO ADD ANOTHER, THEIR OBLIGATIONS.
I, I WILL SAY THAT IT'S MY IMPRESSION THAT THE NEW OWNERS ARE THE ONES WHO, UH, I'M NOT EXACTLY SURE HOW THE TIMING WORKED OUT, BUT EVEN THOUGH THEY JUST PURCHASED THE PROPERTY, THEY WERE THE ONES WHO ENTERED INTO, UM, I I, I MEAN THEY KNEW THE BULKHEADS WERE BEING BUILT.
THEY KNEW WHO WAS BUILDING 'EM.
THEY, THEY WERE NOT UNAWARE OF ALL OF THIS.
BUT THEY MAY NOT KNOW ALL OF THE THINGS ABOUT THE ENVIRONMENTAL CONTROL COMMITTEE AND CAPTAIN'S CODES AND ALL THE RULES.
I WOULD SAY THEY KNOW, THEY KNOW NONE OF THOSE THINGS.
I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY A STRANGER TO THE PROCESS PROBABLY HAS NO IDEA WHAT A WETLANDS BOARD IS.
THAT, THAT, THAT'S MY IMPRESSION, UM, FROM, FROM MY CONVERSATIONS.
I THINK, UH, WE'RE AT A STALEMATE HERE.
AND BECAUSE J P'S UH, APPLICATIONS, EXCUSE ME, UM, HAVE YOU EITHER HAVE 'EM OR GOING TO RECEIVE THEM? UH, I, I HAVE ALL FOUR.
AND SO THAT'S THE NEXT PROCESS.
AND THEN WE'LL, WE'LL, UH, REVIEW 'EM, ET CETERA.
I THINK THERE'S OBVIOUSLY A GOOD REASON TO CONTINUE THIS TO NEXT MONTH.
MR. BROWN, WE FEEL YOUR PAIN OR I DO.
AND, UM, UH, IS, IS THERE ANY CHANCE THAT YOUR PARTNER, UH, IN ONE MONTH WILL BE AVAILABLE? UM, I'VE ACTUALLY, UM, GOT ANOTHER PARTNER.
AND I PARTNER WITH HIM AND HE'S, UH, WILLING TO, UH, ALRIGHT.
SUPERVISE AND DO WHATEVER IT TAKES FOR ME TO GET THE PROPER YOU, YOU KNOW, HE CAN BE HERE NEXT MONTH TO ANSWER QUESTIONS IF NECESSARY.
UM, ALSO WANTED TO, I ADD ONE THING.
MR. ROSS JUST WANTS TO COME OUT AND LOOK AT SOME OF THE TIEBACKS THAT'S INSTALLED.
I SUGGEST THAT JEFF HOOK A COUPLE OF THEM UP AND LET HIM LOOK AT WHAT'S ALREADY INSTALLED.
UM, AND, AND I'LL JUST SAY THAT I'VE TALKED TO OUR BUILDING DEPARTMENT ABOUT THAT.
IT, IT, I THINK IT IS A LITTLE PROBLEMATIC UNDER THE RULES THEY HAVE TO OPERATE UNDER TO INSPECT SOMETHING BEFORE A BUILDING PERMIT IS ISSUED.
AND I HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO FLESH THAT OUT WITH THEM.
'CAUSE I SIMPLY HAVEN'T HAD THE TIME IN THE LAST COUPLE DAYS.
BUT WE MAY HAVE A PROBLEM WITH INSPECTING THE TIEBACKS BEFORE THE BUILDING PERMIT IS ISSUED AS TO THEIR OBLIGATIONS UNDER THE BUILDING CODE.
MEANING IF THEY INSPECT 'EM NOW AND THEY'RE COVERED UP AND THEN THE BUILDING PERMIT IS ISSUED TWO OR THREE MONTHS FROM NOW, I AM NOT SURE IF THAT INSPECTION IS VALID.
WELL, WE NEED TO FIND THAT OUT.
AND THEN WE NEED TO ASK MR. BROWN AND HIS NEW PARTNER, UH, WHO'S BEEN AROUND THE BLOCK, UM, IF YOU DIG THEM UP SO IT CAN BE INSPECTED, CAN THEY BE LEFT OPEN SO THEY CAN BE INSPECTED REINSPECTED WHEN THE TIME COMES? WILL THAT WORK? I DON'T SEE WHY NOT.
MR. WHAT PROBLEM WITH THAT? YOU, THESE DITCHES UP NOW, YOU LEAVE THEM ALL SO LONG WITH PEOPLE LIVING IN THESE HOUSES.
YOU GOT DITCHES FOR KIDS TO BE IN.
UH, IF THE DOOR QUARTER WANTS TO WORK WITH YOU, WHICH I THEY WILL A LOT OPEN UP LOAD, COUPLE UP DOWN IF YOU GOTTA LOOP UP AGAIN, DON'T COME LOOK AT HOW, HOW LONG DOES IT TAKE, SIR? LET'S SAY WE WANT THREE.
SO HOW LONG DOES IT TAKE? JUST MEN WITH SHOVELS? THAT'S IT.
UH, SO YOU CAN HAVE, UH, THREE, FOUR 'EM MO IN FOUR, FIVE HOURS.
SIR, SIR? IS THAT HOW IT WORKS? YES SIR.
SO IF WE CONTINUE WITH THE JPA PROCESS AND YOU'VE GOT A MAN RIGHT THERE THAT KNOWS EVERYTHING THERE IS TO KNOW ABOUT IT AND WE GIVE NOTICE, YOU CAN HAVE EMPLOYEES DIG THESE UP AT SOME POINT IN TIME.
I ALSO WANTED TO ADD IS, UM, NEXT MONTH, IF YOU'RE TALKING THE 24TH, I HAVE VACATION SCHEDULED WITH MY FAMILY AND GRANDKIDS TO GO TO FLORIDA.
SO YOU WANT TO CONTINUE FOR TWO MONTHS? YEAH.
'CAUSE I, I HAVE PLANS TO GO WITH GRANDKIDS TO DISNEY WORLD, SO, UH, THAT'S FINE.
I DO WHATEVER IT TOOK TO TAKE MY GRANDCHILDREN TO DISNEY WORLD.
UH, CAN WE DO THIS FOR TWO MONTHS? WILL IT WORK? UM, IS THERE A DOWNSIDE? EXCEPT FOR WHAT WE ALREADY KNOW? UH, NO DOWNSIDE O OTHER THAN THE GENERAL SITUATION I'D, I'D SELL MY BUSINESS TO TAKE MY GRANDCHILDREN TO DISNEY WORLD, SIR.
LET'S, UH, LET ME JUST SAY, UM, WHAT WE'RE GONNA DO IS IN THE MOTION TWO MONTHS FROM NOW
[01:35:01]
OR SOMETIME BEFORE THAT, THE, UH, UH, DEAD MEN WILL BE EXPOSED AND WE WILL GIVE YOU TIME TO DO THAT AND WE'LL TAKE IT A STEP, UH, ALONG WITH YOU.UH, I THINK MOST OF US FEEL YOUR PAIN.
UH, IT DOESN'T MAKE IT RIGHT, BUT, UM, YOU GOT A MAN THERE THAT KNOWS EVERY STEP.
SO I'M GONNA PLEASE ASK, UM, THE BOARD, SOMEONE TO MAKE A MOTION WITH ALL THESE THINGS IN IT.
UH, MR. TAYLOR, ANY CHANCE I'M GONNA TRY TO, THERE YOU GO.
SO WHAT I'M HEARING IN REGARDS TO THE COMPLAINTS IS THAT WE'RE GONNA HAVE A CONTINUANCE OF TWO IN TWO MONTHS TO WE, WE HERE THE COMPLAINTS.
IS THAT CORRECT, PAUL? UH, YES.
MR. CHAIR, I LIKE MAKE A MOTION MR. TIM GICK ON THE COMPLAINTS.
I WON'T MAKE A LIST OF THEM, BUT THERE ARE COMPLAINTS INVOLVING LOTS AND CAPTAINS COVE AND I'M REQUESTING MAKING THE MOTION THAT WE HAVE, UH, A CONTINUANCE OF TWO MONTHS BEFORE WE GO ON AND HEAR THESE COMPLAINTS.
UH, MAYBE I SHOULD LIST THEM BY NAMES.
THEREFORE, TAX PARCEL FIVE A ONE DASH 1 9 5 9, TAX PARCEL NUMBER FIVE A ONE DASH ONE DASH NINE 20 PARCEL NUMBER FIVE A ONE DASH ONE DASH 9 1 9.
TAX PARCEL NUMBER FIVE A ONE DASH 1 93 3.
AND IF I COULD, AND THE LAST ONE, UH, WE HAVE NOT ADDRESSED THAT, YOUR HONOR.
ALRIGHT, SO FOR THOSE PARTICULAR PARCELS, I WOULD LIKE TO GIVE A TWO MONTH CONTINUANCE FOR THE MEETING IN MAY.
MR. TAYLOR, UH, CALL FOR A VOTE, PLEASE.
THIS IS FOR FOUR? YEAH, THIS IS FOR FOUR.
THE ONE NOT COMPLETE'S, NOT INVOLVED IN THIS, UH, THAT YET? THAT IS CORRECT.
I'LL, I WILL ADDRESS THAT AS SOON AS OKAY.
UH, THE MAY MEETING IS, UH, THE 22ND, SO I HOPE YOU CAN MAKE THAT AND YES, SIR.
UM, AND, UH, MR. BRITTON, YOU PLAN TO BE HERE? YEAH, I'LL BE HERE.
ALRIGHT, LET'S NEXT MONTH, SIR.
UM, ALRIGHT SIR, MAY WE ADDRESS NUMBER SIX? YES, SIR.
UM, THIS IS SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT FROM THE OTHER FOUR.
IT ALSO INVOLVES MR. BROWN, UH, THAT SAME, UH, UH, VISIT TO CAPTAIN SKOVE ON FEBRUARY 17TH.
WE WENT TO THE END OF STARBOARD LANE AND, UH, MR. BROWN WAS PUTTING AN OFFSHORE REVETMENT THAT, UH, WAS PERMITTED.
UH, THE PROBLEM THERE IS THE, UH, RIP WRAP STONE WAS BEING STORED ON TOP OF THE VEGETATED WETLANDS.
AND SO ALL OF THE VEGETATED WETLANDS AT THE END OF STARBOARD LANE WERE EITHER CUT TO THE BASE, ABSOLUTE BASE, OR THEY WERE COVERED WITH, UH, THE, UH, RIP WRAP, RIP WRAP STONE.
AND, UM, WHAT DO YOU MEAN CUT TO THE BASE, SIR? UH, IT LOOKED LIKE IT HAD BEEN MOWED SHOR.
UM, SO THERE ESSENTIALLY WERE NO, UH, THERE WERE ESSENTIALLY NO WETLANDS ON THAT PROPERTY WHEN BEFORE IT HAD BEEN APPROXIMATELY 15 FOOT WIDTH AND A GOOD WIDTH, UH, ACROSS, UM, OF VEGETATED WETLANDS.
AND THE, THE OFFSHORE, UH, SILL WAS ACTUALLY DESIGNED TO PROTECT THOSE WETLANDS.
SO, UH, THAT IS THE BASIS OF, OF, OF, OF, OF THIS COMPLAINT.
AND WOULD ASK THE COURT, I MEAN,
UH, DOES THAT NEED TO BE, UH, IS THAT FOR THIS MONTH OR NEXT MONTH? WELL, IT INVOLVES MR. BROWN, SO, UH, YOU KNOW, HE'D HAVE THE SAME ISSUE.
WHAT IF CAN WE MAKE THAT, UH, IN MAY ALSO? AND MY QUESTION BEYOND THAT IS RESTORATION, UM, IF HE AGREES, UH, TO RESTORE THE VEG THAT THAT WAS DESTROYED BY EITHER MOWING IT OR, UH, RIP WRAP, UH, IS THAT PART OF OUR PROCEDURE? ARE WE ABLE TO DO THAT AS OPPOSED TO UH, VIOLATION? YES, I BELIEVE SO.
UM, UH, AND, AND, AND IT'S PART OF HIS ORIGINAL PLAN THAT WAS APPROVED.
WELL, IN, IN ADDITION TO JUST HERE, HERE'S WHAT I
[01:40:01]
WANT TO DO, IF YOU'D MIND.UM, YOU'RE COMING BACK IN MAY, UH, YOU OBVIOUSLY ARE AWARE OF THIS SITUATION, ARE YOU NOT? YES, SIR.
UM, IF YOU HAVE SOME CHANCE OF RESTORATION, WILL YOU START IT BEFORE THEN? WILL YOU START IT NOW? ACTUALLY, UH, SPEAKING TO BETH ABOUT THIS SITUATION, SHE HAD GAVE ME A CONTACT NUMBER OF ANOTHER LADY WHO SPECIALIZES IN THAT.
SO WE WANT TO GET A, WHAT'S HER NAME? UM, THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION.
SHE SAID THE LADY WAS AN OLDER LADY AND SHE WOULD, UH, SHE WAS REALLY GOOD AT IT.
IS THAT, IS THAT THE OLD OH, REALLY GOOD AT IT.
SORRY ABOUT, SHES WAY TOO OLD.
I'M, THAT'S WHO YOU NEED RIGHT THERE.
THAT'S PROBABLY, UH, AND LET HER LOOK AS SOON AS SHE, UH, IS ABLE AND START THE RESTORATION PROJECT.
AND IT MAY BE NULL AND VOID BY MAY SOMETHING MEETING WHEN YOU COME BACK.
UH, IS ELLEN THE PERSON, THAT OLD LADY BACK? I THINK SO.
I KNOW BEST SAID SHE WAS SPECIALIST.
SO, YOU KNOW, WE WON'T TALK ABOUT GETTING, CONSIDER HER A SPECIAL PLAN OF ATTACK, YOU KNOW, TO, TO FIX THE SITUATION.
DO I UNDERSTAND CORRECTLY THAT THE FIFTH ONE, THE ONE WE'RE NOW TALKING ABOUT, THE APPLICATION SHOULD BE COMPLETE AND READY FOR US TO ACT ON IN TWO MONTHS? IT'S COMPLETED.
THE FIRST ONE THERE ON UNDERNEATH THE BIC THE SECOND ONE, THAT'S THE ONE WE STOPPED ON.
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT NUMBER SIX RIGHT NOW.
SO, UM, JUST, JUST ONE MORE TIME, UH, GENE WAYNE, BUT LIKE CHAIRMAN HAS SAID THE COSTONE IS GONE FROM THAT SITE AND IT COULD BE RESTORED AS, AS FAST AS IT CAN BE DONE.
AND WE DID DO SOME PRECAUTIONARY MEASURES THAT AS WELL.
I MEAN, WE DID PUT BRIDGE MATS DOWN AND WE DID PUT PLYWOOD DOWN.
UM, I EVEN WENT TO POBO AND GOT 20 SHEETS OF PLYWOOD TO TRY TO YEAH.
THAT, THAT'S THE WAY IT OUGHT TO BE DONE.
UH, AND PARTICULARLY NOT CUTTING IT DOWN, BUT YEAH.
UH, PAUL, DID YOU HAVE SOMETHING TO OFFER? THANK YOU, SIR.
I WAS, I FORGOT TO MENTION I DID DRIVE BY THE SITE LAST FRIDAY AND THE ROCKS HAVE BEEN REMOVED.
THAT'S WHAT SAYING, UM, SHE'S THE ABSOLUTE BEST IN MY OPINION.
YOU ALLOW HER AND DO WHAT SHE TELLS YOU, AND I THINK BY THE TIME YOU COME BACK IN MAY, THAT'LL BE NOTHING.
UM, SO MR. BIRD, A LOT OF TIMES YOU USED MASKS ON THESE MARSHES, IT MATCHES THE GRASS.
WE'VE DONE IT MANY, MANY TIMES AND WE WILL START THAT IN MAY AND THERE'LL BE A TWO YEAR OR THREE YEAR, JUST WHAT YOU'VE BEEN THROUGH 50 TIMES OR MORE.
BUT WE GOTTA START SOMEWHERE, RIGHT? UH, SO WE'RE GONNA GET IT GOING AGAIN AND THEN THERE'LL BE A PROCESS OF WATCHING IT OVER TIME AND MAKING SURE THAT IT'S BACK TO WHERE IT SHOULD BE AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE.
BUT YOU'RE TRYING AND YOU'RE TRYING.
UM, UH, IS THERE ANY, UH, THING EXCEPT FOR CONTINU CONTINUANCE, UH, IS THERE ANYTHING THAT WE NEED TO DO ON THIS SUBJECT? I DON'T THINK SO.
UH, PAUL, TALK TO ME, BROTHER.
ANYTHING BESIDES WHAT WE'VE ALREADY DONE, UM, CONTINUANCE THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE ON THIS PROJECT? NO SIR.
JUST A CONTINUANCE VOTE? YES SIR.
I'D LIKE A MOTION FOR, UH, ONE TWO MONTH CONTINUANCE.
I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION ON A COMPLAINT ON VMRC PERMIT 2023 DASH 1659 THAT WE HAVE A CONTINUANCE OF TWO MONTHS AND LISTEN TO COMPLAINT IN MAY OF 2025.
ALRIGHT, TIM GICK, UH, ASK FOR A SECOND PLEASE.
AND, UH, WE KNOW YOU'RE GOING THROUGH A LOT WITH THIS, BUT, UH, I THINK IT'S A, A FIXABLE THING FOR THE MOMENT.
IF WE, UH, TRY TO DO WHAT WE SAID AND YOU'RE WILLING TO, UH, A HAVE PEOPLE AVAILABLE TO DO ANYTHING INSPECTORS WANT DONE TO LOOK AT IT, I THINK THAT'S THE BEST WAY OUT FOR YOU.
MAY NOT LIKE IT, BUT, UH, HOPE YOU.
UH, MS. FLOYD POINTED OUT THAT YOU MAY NOT HAVE TAKEN A VOTE ON NUMBER ONE.
OH YEAH, WE DID NOT, BECAUSE WE WERE GONNA ASK, UH, FOR SOME GUIDANCE FROM, UM, FROM THE COUNTY.
UM, AND, AND I THINK THAT'S A GOOD POINT.
[01:45:01]
ALL AGREED TO THAT, BUT I THINK THERE NEEDS TO BE A VOTE.I, I HAD THAT IN THE BACK OF MY HEAD.
SO BASICALLY FOR NUMBER ONE AGAINST, UH, BIC WE WERE GONNA ASK FOR YEAH.
I MAKE A MOTION THAT WE DO BM RRC 2023 DASH 6 57 FOR A ONE MONTH, UM, CONTINUANCE.
MAY I ASK FOR A SECOND PLEASE? TIM, GOT I SECOND THAT MOTION? THANK YOU.
UH, WE'RE GONNA ASK FOR SOME GUIDANCE, UH, NEXT MONTH YOU'LL BE HERE.
UM, AND WE'LL GO FROM THERE IF THAT'S OKAY.
ALRIGHT, WE'RE ON TO, UH, OTHER BUSINESS, UH, 6.01.
WHERE, WHO? YOU NEED A FIVE MINUTE RECESS? YEAH, FIVE MINUTE RECESS.
UH, WE ARE GONNA CONTINUE ON WITH, UH, OTHER BUSINESS 6.01 POLICIES AND PROCEDURES MANUAL.
PAUL, I'VE, UH, JUST PROVIDED THAT IN THE PACKET AGAIN TO SEE IF THE BOARD HAD ANY DISCUSSION OR WANTED TO ADOPT AS IS.
UM, I, I OBVIOUSLY WASN'T INVOLVED UNTIL A MONTH OR SO AGO, SO I'M NOT SURE IF THERE'S ANYTHING ELSE TO DISCUSS OR, OR WHAT THE NEXT STEP IS.
WE, UH, WE HAD AGREED, UH, THAT AFTER A COUPLE OF, UH, REPRINTS THAT, UH, IT WAS ABOUT EVERYTHING WE WANTED IN THERE.
SO WE'VE BEEN THROUGH THIS TWO OR THREE MONTHS.
THAT GOES BACK EIGHT A YEAR, I DON'T KNOW, SIX, EIGHT MONTHS.
SO, UH, I'M GONNA TURN IT OVER TO THE BOARD.
UH, I THINK WE'VE ALREADY KICKED IT TO DEATH AND WE ARE HAPPY WITH WHAT'S IN THERE.
UH, MR. TAYLOR, THE ONLY THING THAT, THAT I WOULD LIKE TO, AND IT'S OBVIOUS REASONING HERE LATELY IS, UM, THE PINPOINT STUFF, NOT JUST, HMM, INDEX.
WHAT'S THE QUESTION IN THE ANSWER? I'M SORRY.
A PINPOINT LIKE YOU SAID, YOU, THOSE ARE MACHINES NOW THAT CAN TELL YOU, LIKE I SAID, WHEN YOU, WHEN YOU DO, IT'S LIKE THEY USED MARKED, THERE'S FLAGS THEY HAD THE OTHER DAY.
YEAH, THERE'S ACTUAL BENCHMARKS YOU ACTUALLY PUT IN AND THEN, AND YOU GOT A MACHINE THAT WILL TELL YOU EXACTLY.
SOMEBODY MOVES IT, IT'S RIGHT THERE.
AND THAT WITH US, OH, YOU TOLD ME YOU, YOU APPROVED THIS, YOU APPROVED THAT.
BUT WITH THAT, WITH THE, UH, ADDITION OF THE EXACTING OF IT, THE BENCHMARK AND YOU, AND YOU HAVE ITS EXACT, UH, ATTITUDE.
LONGITUDE, IT'S PIN DOWN, IT PINS, IT PINS THE PROJECT DOWN AND IT IT JUST TAKES CARE OF A LOT OF WHAT WE'RE GOING THROUGH.
CAN, CAN YOU WORK ON THAT LANGUAGE AND CAN THAT BE, I IT'S EIGHT, IT'S 800 MACHINE.
SO YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT PIECE OF GPS.
AND, AND WE HAVE THAT AT BMRC.
YOU DO THAT ON ALL YOUR PROJECTS.
I'M SORRY WE DON'T HAVE THAT SURVEYORS, BUT IT IS, IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT, THE EQUIPMENT IS JUST NOT BY GOING TO THE SITE.
YOU KNOW, UM, AND CLICKING ON YOUR PHONE, YOU DON'T DO THAT.
OH GOSH, I DON'T EVEN, WE USED TO DO IT.
SO FOR EXAMPLE, IF YOU'RE PUTTING IN A BULKHEAD, IS THAT THERE? OKAY.
FOR EXAMPLE, YOU'RE PUTTING IN A BULKHEAD OR A SEAL, YOU WOULD GIVE US COORDINATES FOR EACH END OR SOMETHING SO THAT WE WOULD KNOW.
WE GOT ONE RIGHT NOW WE GOT TWO FLAGS AND THAT'S WHAT THEY GOT US TWO FLAGS.
AND THEY CAN, I CAN MOVE THEM.
WHEN YOU PUT THAT COORDINATES IN THERE, IT'S, IT'S AN EXACT END POINT.
PART OF THE APPLICATION ITSELF SPECIFIES BENCHMARKS.
IT'S PART OF WHAT YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO HAVE ON THE APPLICATION.
UH, SOME COUNTIES AND CITIES ARE MORE ROBUST WITH THAT THAN OTHERS.
UH, IT ALL DEPENDS ON, IF IT WASN'T QUICK AND EASY, I WOULD SAY NO.
BUT IT'S JUST NOWADAYS WITH TECHNOLOGY OUT.
BUT NOW YOU CAN PIN IT DOWN, NARROW IT DOWN, SOMEBODY AGREES TO SOMETHING.
UH, I'LL, WELL I CAN TAKE A LOOK AT THAT AND REPORT BACK AT THE NEXT MEETING.
AND LIKE I SAID, NORM, LIKE I SAID, I GOT THE NAMES OUTTA IT.
IT'S A $800 25,000 AND WE, UH, IT'S CHANGED SOME FASHION.
I DON'T THINK WE NEED TO SPEND A FORTUNE HERE.
WE JUST NEED SOMETHING OTHER THAN FLAGS.
AND WHERE WOULD, WHERE IS THAT IN BEFORE? WHERE IS THAT, WHERE WOULD THAT FIT IN THIS? IN WHAT ARE YOU LOOKING AT MINUTES OR SOMETHING? NO, WEREN'T YOU TALKING ABOUT THE, UH, PROCEDURES MANUAL? YEAH.
SO WHERE WOULD THAT FALL IN? INSTEAD OF HAVING A, INSTEAD OF
[01:50:01]
HAVING A HORROR, UM, AN ENGINEER TO GO OUT THERE, LIKE YOU SAY, IF, IF WE, IF WE HAD THE $800WHERE, WHERE WOULD THAT FIT INTO THIS IS WHAT I WAS GETTING AT.
UM, I WAS GIVING IT, I PROMISE YOU LOOKING FORWARD
UH, JUST, UH, I'LL TAKE A LOOK.
THIS IS WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO BECAUSE OF THE POTENTIAL MOVEMENT OF THE FLAGS.
IF IT DOESN'T MATCH ANYTHING IN THERE ALREADY, I IS THAT ALRIGHT WITH YOU HANK? IT'S UNDER FIELD IN INVESTIGATION I THINK IS WHERE IT WOULD BE ON PAGE NINE.
AND HE TALKS ABOUT IT A LITTLE BIT THERE WITH BENCHMARKS REFERENCES.
SO IF ANYTHING, I GUESS, UH, MR. TAYLOR, YOU'D WANT TO PUT IN THERE, UH, THAT LONG? UH, YEAH.
IF YOU JUST DID, UH, TUDE LATITUDE, UH, I WOULD GUESS THAT WAY IT'S EASY TO YOU DO THAT ON YOUR PHONE.
THAT'S NOT, THAT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT'S BEEN A PROBLEM FOR US.
'CAUSE WELL, UH, I THINK THAT THAT NARROWS DOWN LONGITUDE AND LATITUDE.
UM, I DON'T EVEN KNOW HOW TO USE IT, BUT I SEE IT ON MY PHONE.
YEAH, I'LL TAKE A LOOK AT THAT.
UH, ANYBODY ELSE GOT, UH, ANY THOUGHTS? I'VE GOT, I'VE GOT TWO ADDITIONAL ITEMS TO REPORT TO THE BOARD.
UH, FIRST THE WALL UP ALL IN CAUSEWAY.
I GOT AN EMAIL FROM RICKY WOODY, UH, YESTERDAY TELLING ME THAT VMRC ISSUED THEIR PERMIT ON TUESDAY AND THEY'RE WAITING FOR THE ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS PERMITS TO BE ISSUED, UM, EITHER TODAY OR TOMORROW.
THAT WOULD THEN GIVE US THE, UH, IN LIEU FEE, UH, RIGHT ISSUE OF, UH, ANSWER AS TO WHAT THEY'RE GONNA TAKE OR NOT TAKE.
THEY'RE GONNA DO WHAT THEY WANT, MY FRIEND.
AND THE OTHER NEW ISSUE OR WHAT, UH, SOMETHING TO THE REPORT IS THAT THERE IS A NEW, UH, IN LIEU POLICY THAT I THINK I MENTIONED AT THE LAST BOARD MEETING, BUT I'VE GOTTEN SOME CLARIFICATION ON THAT AND GOING FORWARD.
UM, THE FIRST ALTERNATIVE, UH, IS THAT, UH, YOU HAVE TO, UH, USE AN APPROVED MITIGATION BANK.
UH, THE SECOND ALTERNATIVE, WHILE IT SAYS USE OF AN APP APPROVED IN LIEU FEE PROGRAM, UM, WE DO NOT HAVE AN APPROVED IN LIEU FEE PROGRAM.
THAT'S ACTUALLY KIND OF A TERM OF ART THAT'S ACTUALLY, UH, IS BASICALLY A, UH, WETLAND MITIGATION BANK, UHHUH
SO IT, I BELIEVE EFFECTIVELY ELIMINATES THE BOARD, UH, COLLECTING IN LIEU FEES GOING FORWARD.
YOU MEAN, YOU MEAN IF, IF THERE'S A BANK? UM, MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT, UH, THERE'S A PRETTY BROAD CATEGORY OF BANKS THAT WOULD QUALIFY SUCH THAT IT WOULD BE VERY UNUSUAL FOR THE BOARD TO BE ABLE TO COLLECT A FEE ITSELF.
SO, UH, WHERE DOES IT GO? WHAT BANK, UH, WHAT, WHERE IS IT USED IN STATE ON THE SHORE? UM, I BELIEVE IN STATE, UM, I, MS. GORMAN HAS HELPED ME OUT, UH, FIGURING THIS OUT AND WHERE THE MONEY GOES.
UM, THERE'S A VIRGINIA AQUATIC RESOURCE, UH, RESOURCES TRUST FUND.
I BELIEVE, UH, SHE SAID IT ANYWHERE FROM $9 TO $40 A SQUARE FOOT DEPENDING ON IT, IT, IT, IT'S MARKET BASED.
SO YOU DON'T QUITE KNOW, I DON'T THINK WE CARE AS LONG AS IT'S USED HERE.
UH, I'D LIKE, UH, TO EXPLAIN TO US, PLEASE, IF YOU WOULD PLEASE MS. GORMAN, UH, WOULD YOU EDUCATE ME, PLEASE? SO AKIMA COUNTY DOES NOT HAVE AN APPROVED MITIGATION BANK CURRENTLY.
SO THAT IS THE KIND OF THE FIRST PREFERRED OPTION.
UM, ACCORDING TO THESE NEW MITIGATION, THIS NEW MITIGATION POLICY.
SO SINCE YOU ALL DO NOT HAVE AN APPROVED BANK, THE NEXT OPTION IS THESE, UH, APPROVED IN LIE FEE PROGRAM, WHICH IS BASICALLY A MITIGATION, IT'S A BANKING INSTRUMENT THAT'S APPROVED BY THE INTER-AGENCY REVIEW TEAM.
THE IRT VAR DIFF IS THE ONLY, UM, APPROVED IN LIE FEE PROGRAM THAT IS AVAILABLE TO THIS COUNTY AT THE MOMENT.
UM, YOUR AD HOC IN LIE FEES, WHICH IS WHAT YOU ALL TYPICALLY RELY ON FOR MITIGATION, IS BASICALLY LIKE FIFTH ON THE LIST.
AND IT WOULD REALLY BE EXTENUATING CIRCUMSTANCES FOR THOSE AD HOC MOVE FEES TO BE, UH, A, AN APPROPRIATE
[01:55:02]
OPTION FOR MITIGATION.SO, UM, IN TALKING WITH PAUL YESTERDAY, YOU ALL MOVING FORWARD WILL LIKELY BE USING VAR DIFF VERY OFTEN FOR YOUR, UH, MITIGATION.
AND THAT JUST MEANS THAT THE, IT'LL BE ON THE AGENT AND APPLICANT TO ENSURE THAT THERE ARE, UM, VAR DIFF CREDITS AVAILABLE FOR PURCHASE.
AND IF NOT, YOU KNOW, THIS IS GONNA BE, WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO TAKE IT ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS, BUT YOU WILL NOT BE ISSUING, UM, A SPECIFIC MONETARY AMOUNT FOR IMPACTS.
BUT YOU WILL STILL BE VOTING ON THE SQUARE FOOTAGE OF CREDITS REQUIRED TO BE PURCHASED FROM IV.
SO THE ONLY THING, UH, WHEN, WHEN THERE ARE ISSUES, WE'LL SAY THAT IT'S, UH, 80 SQUARE FEET OF VEG AND YOU TAKE IT FROM THERE.
WE DON'T GET INTO THE $18 OR WHATEVER.
SO THAT THEY WOULD NEED TO COMPENSATE FOR 18 SQUARE FEET OF VEGETATED WETLAND IMPACTS AND THAT WILL NEED TO BE VERY CLEAR ON THE RECORD AND THAT YOU ALL ARE REQUIRING THAT THEY PURCHASE IFF CREDITS AND, AND YOU'RE FAIRLY CERTAIN THAT'LL BE SPENT IN THE STATE OF VIRGINIA.
YES, AND WE DON'T REALLY KNOW NOR CARE, AT LEAST IN MY OPINION, I DON'T KNOW WHERE THE MONEY GOES IN THE FIRST PLACE, THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS, BUT WE'VE ONLY, UH, IN MY X NUMBER OF YEARS BEEN ASKED TWO TIMES, IS IT ALL RIGHT TO SPEND IT AT, UH, MCKENNEY AND IS IT ALL RIGHT TO SPEND IT ON THE OLD FERRY DOCKS? UH, BUT I THINK IT'S, WE COLLECT IT AND RIGHT.
SO, UM, Y'ALL'S AD HOC IN LU FEE BANK IS NOT SOMETHING THAT I CAN, THAT VMRC MANAGES OR THAT WE DICTATE TO YOU HOW TO USE IT.
IT REALLY IS SUPPOSED TO BE USED FOR WETLAND RESTORATION CREATION PROJECTS.
UM, BUT IT IS UP TO YOU ALL AND YOUR COUNCIL HOW YOU ALL WANT TO MOVE IT MOVING FORWARD.
UM, SOME OTHER COUNTIES AND IT, AND THIS IS SOMETHING THAT UM, YOU KNOW, THIS IS A LEARNING CURVE FOR US TOO, BUT SOME OF THE OTHER COUNTIES, WHAT THEY HAVE TALKED ABOUT DOING OR HAVE ASKED US, WHICH IS APPROPRIATE, UM, IS IF THEY CAN USE THOSE FEES TO PURCHASE CREDITS AT VAR DIFF OR AT A MITIGATION BANK SO THAT IT IS GOING FULLY TO WETLAND'S RESTORATION MITIGATION.
YOU'RE NOT REQUIRED TO DO THAT, BUT THAT IS AN OPTION.
SO WE COULD TURN OFF, TURN OVER ALL THE, IN LIEU OF FEE MONEY TO THEM.
CAN I SPEND IT? CAN THEY SPEND IT NOW BEFORE A TIME PERIOD? THE COUNTY? YES, THEY DO.
WELL, YEAH, I DON'T, YOU CAN STILL, PAM MAY BE ABLE TO HELP US A LITTLE BIT ON THIS.
YOU CAN STILL USE IT FOR LOCAL PROJECTS.
NOW WE HAVE VEGETATIVE, VEGETATED FEED, SUBCU AND UNVEGETATED NON VEGETATED.
ARE WE TALKING ABOUT BOTH OF THOSE? BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, IT'S A DIFFERENT SITUATION HERE BECAUSE THE VEGETATE IS WHAT YOU GUYS ARE INTERESTED.
THE MRC, THE NON VEGETATED SORT OF STILL REPOSES WITH THE WETLANDS BOARD.
WE'RE WE'RE MOVING A LITTLE BIT OUT OF MY PURVIEW AS FAR AS Y'ALL'S FEES.
SO I'LL LET MR. PANDA, YOU KNOW, ONE, ONE OTHER QUICK QUESTION ON THAT.
IF VARNEY'S FEES ARE DIFFERENT THAN OUR IN LIEU OF FEES, SAY IT'S MORE, AREN'T WE GONNA, EVEN IF WE'RE STILL DOING IN LIE FEES, DON'T WE HAVE TO GO UP TO AT LEAST THEIR, UH, DOLLAR A AMOUNT PER SQUARE FOOT IF IT'S HIGHER? JUST SO I UNDERSTAND YOU'RE ASKING THAT IF SO SAFE OF IFF DOESN'T HAVE CREDITS.
WELL SAY BARNETT SAYS $30 A SQUARE FOOT MM-HMM
AND IT USED TO BE IF WE WERE DOING IN LIEU OF, AND YOU KNOW, THERE MAY BE A SITUATION WHERE VARANT DOESN'T HAVE IT, UH, BUT WE KNOW THAT THEY'RE CHARGING 30, $30 A SQUARE FOOT AND WE'RE NUMBER FIVE, BUT WE'RE ALL THE WAY DOWN TO FIVE ON, ON THE LIST OF MM-HMM
AND, AND THE IN LIEU OF FEE COMES IN PLAY.
DON'T WE HAVE TO CHARGE THE SAME AS A LITIGATION BANK? THAT IS A GOOD QUESTION.
I DO NOT KNOW THE ANSWER TO THAT.
AND I THINK A LOT OF THE IN LIEU FEES IN THE PAST HAVE BEEN BASED ON HOW MUCH IT COSTS LOCALLY TO CONSTRUCT WET WETLANDS MM-HMM
SO THAT IT IS COMPARABLE TO AVOID, YOU KNOW, CHARGING 50 CENTS A SQUARE FOOT.
BUT THAT'S SOMETHING THAT I CAN GET AN ANSWER FOR.
THERE WAS A TIME WHEN IF YOU WERE GONNA USE A BANK, UH, OR IF THAT THERE WAS A BANK AVAILABLE, UH, IT, IT HAD TO BE, UH, THE COUNTY HAD TO BE AT LEAST EQUAL TO THE MITIGATION BANK AS FAR AS OUR CHARGE.
SO THAT YOU, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE COULDN'T SAY WHY I'D RATHER USE THE INLINE FEE 'CAUSE IT'S LESS EXPENSIVE.
NOW IT'S A LITTLE BIT HARDER TO DO THAT, BUT YES, THAT'S, THAT IS CORRECT.
THAT'S, THAT'S MR. FAR IS THAT VIRGINIA CLARK TRUST
[02:00:01]
FUND? YES.UH, WE'LL PROBABLY CALL YOU BACK UP, BUT MR. PAMBY, CAN YOU AND ENLIGHTEN US NOT AS WELL AS, UH, UH, MS. GORMAN
SO THE, THE FEES THAT YOU COLLECT ARE, ARE DEPOSITED INTO AN INTEREST BEARING ACCOUNT.
SO IT'S THERE AND, UH, TO, TO YOUR POINT ABOUT WANTING THAT MONEY BEING SPENT HERE IN ACK, I FULLY AGREE WITH THAT.
NOW, UH, I DO NOT HAVE THE TOTAL AMOUNT, UH, THAT IS IN THAT ACCOUNT.
WE WILL TRY TO FIND THAT FOR YOU AND REPORT THAT BACK TO YOU.
BUT, UH, UH, WHAT I UNDERSTAND THE PURPOSE OF THAT FUNDING IS, IS FOR PROJECTS HERE IN MACK.
SO WE'LL HAVE TO IDENTIFY SOME PROJECTS AND WE'RE GONNA TO, YEAH, I ASSUME IT'S GONNA BE CLOSE TO THAT, CERTAINLY IN THE STATE OF VIRGINIA, BUT WE ALWAYS ASSUMED IT WAS MACK COUNTY.
AND I'M NOT SURE THAT'S THE WAY IT'S GONNA BE ANY LONGER.
WELL, THE $18 PER SQUARE FOOT THAT YOU GUYS, UH, THAT, THAT YOU COLLECT FOR, UH, YOU KNOW, UM, FOR THE, FOR THE VARIOUS PROJECTS, IT'S THAT FUND.
IT'S, IT'S THAT MONEY THAT'S, UH, DEPOSITED INTO AN INTEREST BEARING ACCOUNT UNDER OUR CONTROL.
WELL, BUT THAT FUND IS GOING TO BE DONE AWAY WITH AS FAR AS THE $18 A SQUARE FOOT AND THE FEE WILL BE WHAT THEY HAVE TO PAY FOR, UH, COMPENSATION IN OTHER LOCATIONS.
WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO GET OUR ARMS AROUND WHAT THESE CHANGES MEAN FOR THAT AND WE'LL GET BACK TO YOU ON THAT.
UH, CLAIRE, HOW DID HANK
HOW DID, HOW DID THIS COME ABOUT? THIS IS A CHANGE THAT I WASN'T AWARE OF.
THE COMMISSION APPROVED IT IN JANUARY.
UM, AND THESE ARE, THEY WERE RECOMMENDED BY VIMS? NO, NO, NO, NO.
I DON'T, I DON'T THINK VIMS HAD VERY MUCH TO DO WITH THIS.
I DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER TO THAT.
UM, BUT THEY, THE COMMISSION, IT IS REGULATION NOW AND THE COMMISSION APPROVED THEM IN IN JANUARY.
THE, I PROMISE YOU VIRGINIA TRIBE TRUST FUND IS A VERY GOOD, VERY GOOD ORGANIZATION.
HOWEVER, THEY DON'T ALWAYS HAVE MITIGATION BANK TO GIVE.
SO I'M SAYING, SO WE PROVE THIS THING AND THEY THINK, AND WE'RE PROBABLY GOING TO GO TO A FIVE YEAR THING BECAUSE THERE'S VERY, THERE'S A LOT OF TIMES, A LOT OF TIMES THEY DON'T HAVE ANY MITIGATION TO GIVE YOU.
SO IF THEY DON'T HAVE MITIGATION TO GIVE YOU WE'RE KIND OF RIGHT BACK WHERE WE WERE IN OUR, IN LU FIELD.
SO THE WAY THAT THAT THIS READS IS THAT IF, SO IF YOU DON'T HAVE A LOCAL MITIGATION BANK, AND I WANNA PULL IT UP BEFORE I, UM, IF YOU DON'T HAVE AN APPROVED MITIGATION BANK AND VAR DIFF DOES NOT HAVE ANY CREDITS, UM, YOU DO HAVE THE OPTION OF, YOU KNOW, HOLDING OFF, RELEASING A PERMIT UNTIL VAR DIFF HAS CREDITS AVAILABLE.
BUT IF YOU MOVE TO LIKE THE NEXT OPTION ON THE HIERARCHY, IT IS ONSITE AND OFFSITE MITIGATION AND THEN YOUR AD HOC IN LIE FEES ARE LAST.
AND THE ONSITE AND OFFSITE MITIGATION DOES REQUIRE A DETAILED SPECIFIC RESTORATION CONSTRUCTION PLAN.
UM, WHICH IS, CAN BE CHALLENGING IN SOME INSTANCES.
UH, EVERYBODY, UM, WE'RE BEING TOLD THIS, WE DON'T, UH, HAVE ANY JUSTIF NEED ANY JUSTIFICATION, UH, JUST PART OF LIFE.
AND, UH, SOMEONE ELSE WILL, IT'LL BE PUT IN GOOD HANDS JUST LIKE IT IS RIGHT NOW.
UM, INSTEAD OF THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS OR WHOMEVER SAY WE'RE GONNA USE IT AT, UH, WHATEVER MCKINNEY PARK.
UH, AS LONG AS IF WE HAVE ANY INPUT I'M GOING TO SPEND IN MACK COUNTY, BUT I'M NOT SURE WE DO.
SO, UM, JUST TO CLARIFY, THE, THE MONIES THAT YOU HAVE COLLECTED PREVIOUSLY, THAT IS FOR YOU ALL TO DETERMINE HOW YOU WOULD LIKE TO SPEND IT HERE IN ACK MOVING FORWARD.
IF VAR DIFF BECOMES THE PRIMARY SOURCE OF MITIGATION FOR AKAMAK BASED PROJECTS, THE WETLANDS THAT ARE CONSTRUCTED USING THOSE, UM, USING THOSE CREDITS MAY NOT BE IN AKAMAK, BUT THEY WILL BE IN VIRGINIA.
SO WE PROBABLY ARE GONNA NEED TO KNOW IS ALMOST ON A MONTHLY BASIS WHAT THEY'VE GOT AVAILABLE.
AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT PAUL AND I ALSO TALKED ABOUT.
UM, IT'LL REALLY BE THE AGENT'S RESPONSIBILITY TO LOOK INTO HOW MANY CREDITS ARE AVAILABLE, IF CREDITS ARE AVAILABLE, IF THEIR PROJECT IS GOING TO REQUIRE MITIGATION, UM, AND THEN, YOU KNOW, BETWEEN,
[02:05:01]
UH, MR. WATSON AND I WILL, YOU KNOW, MAKE SURE THAT THAT'S, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT IS INCLUDED IN THE, UM, YOU KNOW, APPLICATION, PRESENTATION AND ALL THAT.UM, IT SHOULD NOT BE YOUR RESPONSIBILITY AND IT IS NOT YOUR RESPONSIBILITY TOTER TO DETERMINE IF THERE ARE CREDITS AVAILABLE, BUT IT WILL BE A RESPONSIBILITY TO TELL AGENTS AND APPLICANTS HOW MANY CREDITS YOU ARE REQUIRING THEM TO PURCHASE.
AND WE WON'T GIVE BY FOUR FOOT.
WE WON'T GIVE THEM A PERMIT UNTIL WE SEE THAT INFORMATION BACK.
YES, YOU CAN APPROVE A PERMIT, BUT IT MAY NOT BE RELEASED CONTINGENCY ONLY.
I HAVE TWO COMMENTS I GET, I'M SORRY.
SOMETHING ELSE TO TELL THE BOARD AND THE, THE ONLY, THE ONLY OTHER THING I HAD TO TELL THE BOARD IS WE DO HAVE A SIGNIFICANT APPLICATION COMING UP FOR THE APRIL MEETING, AND THAT'S THE SL GUT DREDGING, UH, FOR THE WALLACE ISLAND DOCK.
UM, THAT'S THE 5 MILLION PROJECT.
AND JUST WANNA MAKE THE BOARD AWARE THAT THAT'S COMING UP IN APRIL.
I GOT ANOTHER QUESTION, LINDA.
LIKE YOU SAY, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE
YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT I'M SAYING? I, I MISSED THE QUESTION.
JUST LIKE A COUPLE MONTHS AGO, THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WAS HERE DOING THE, THE BRIDGE PROJECT.
RIGHT? THE WALLET NOT SO WALLET HA YEAH.
I MEAN, I WOULD DARE SAY THEY PROBABLY DON'T HAVE IT.
'CAUSE I KNOW THAT WAS IN THE, IN THE PACKET, IF YOU REMEMBER, IF YOU REMEMBER WHEN YOU READ THE PACKET, THAT WAS GONNA BE THEIR SOURCE OF MITIGATION, RIGHT? REMEMBER, REMEMBER READING THAT MR. VIRGINIA AQUATIC TRUST FUND WAS GONNA BE THEIR MITIGATION THAT GOT SCRAPPED AND IT WENT TO, UH, YOU KNOW WHAT I'M SAYING? THAT WAS, THAT WAS WHAT HE WAS GONNA USE FOR MITIGATION.
WELL, THAT'S WHAT THE CORE USES REALLY BIG SITE.
THEY COULD HAVE DONE ONSITE MITIGATION SOMEWHERE.
THEY ONLY PAID YOU BECAUSE IT WAS EASY.
BUT THAT WAS HIS, THAT WAS ON, IN THAT PACKET THAT HE WAS GONNA USE AL WIRE TRUST FUND FOR HIS, UH, ATION.
I DUNNO, I WOULD AGREE WITH THAT COMMENT BECAUSE THE FACT IS THEY HAD UPLANDS AT NASA, BUT THE PROBLEM IS EVERYTHING'S BEING USED FOR OTHER FACILITIES.
SO I MEAN, THAT'S SORT OF THAT SORT OF IFFY, IF THEY REALLY HAD A PLACE THEY COULD HAVE FOUND THEY, BUT THAT WAS IN THE PACKET, ORIGINAL PACKET.
I SAID VIRGINIA AQUATICS TRUST FUND DOESN'T MATTER.
IT'S GONNA BE THEIR, IT'S GONNA BE THEIR SOURCE OF, AND THAT IS THEIR SOURCE OF MITIGATION FOR THEIR FEDERAL PRINT, FOR THEIR, DOESN'T MATTER.
I'M JUST, I'M JUST GIVING UP A RESIDENCE.
IF I MAKE TWO QUICK COMMENTS REGARDING TO THIS MITIGATION, I'M CONCERNED ABOUT IF I WAS UP THERE AS A CONTRACTOR OR OWNER AND I DIDN'T KNOW EXACTLY HOW MUCH I WAS PAYING FOR SQUARE FOOTAGE, THAT COULD ALTER WHAT I WANT TO DO FOR THE CONSTRUCTION OF MY PROJECT.
SO I THINK THAT'S GONNA BE A LITTLE BIT AN ISSUE.
AND THEN THE NEXT ONE IS FOR MR. PANDA.
IS THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS AWARE OF THIS NEW MINUTE? BECAUSE I THINK THEY MIGHT WANT TO KNOW ABOUT HOW THIS IS BEING HANDLED, AT LEAST IN REGARDS TO, UH, FUNDS THAT WE MIGHT COLLECT HERE.
I THINK THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS SHOULD BE AWARE OF THIS BECAUSE THEY MIGHT WANT TO GET MAYBE A DISCUSSION WITH THE COUNTY ATTORNEY.
I'VE, I'VE HAD CONVERSATIONS WITH THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR ABOUT THIS ISSUE, BUT, UM, IF WE NEED TO TAKE THAT A STEP FURTHER, I'LL, I'LL REVISIT THAT WITH, UH, MR. MASON.
I'M ASSUMING THAT, UH, HE, I'M ASSUMING THAT, UH, IF THEY SAY THAT'S WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN, I'M ASSUMING EVEN HE WILL JUST SAY, WELL CARRY ON MM-HMM
I, I WOULD GUESS THAT'S ALL I CAN SAY.
WELL, UM, IF I RECALL CORRECTLY, THE MITIGATION OF THE, THE, THE MITIGATION AMOUNT FOR THAT CAUSEWAY PROJECT WAS IN THE, WAS ALONG THE LINE OF 270, $280,000 IN, AND THAT COULD DO A LOT OF GOOD HERE IN ACK.
HOPEFULLY THAT WON'T CHANGE BEFORE WE, YOU KNOW, BEFORE WE CAN, UH, UH, UH, GET THAT.
BUT, UM, TO YOUR POINT, MR. ICK, UH, I WILL REVISIT THAT WITH MR. MASON SORT OF CREDIT FOR MACK COUNTY AND MAYBE THEY CAN PUSH IT ALONG QUICKER.
UH, MS. GRIMES INQUIRED WHETHER THERE WAS GONNA BE PUBLIC COMMENTS AT THE PORTION OF THE MEETING.
THERE, THERE'S GETTING READY TO BE PUBLIC COMMENT.
UH, ANY OTHER QUESTIONS REGARDING, UH, THE MITIGATION FOR ANYONE IN THIS ROOM BEFORE WE CLOSE IT AND OPEN IT TO PUBLIC COMMENT? AND IF THERE'S A PUBLIC COMMENT APPROACH, YOU'VE BEEN SWORN IN.
AND WE'D LIKE TO HEAR WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY.
MS. GRIMES, UH, JUST IN, IN YOUR CONVERSATION, I DID HAVE ONE COMMENT ABOUT BENCHMARKS.
TAKING A BENCHMARK WITH YOUR PHONE.
THERE'S NO COMPLIANCE FOR A BENCHMARK.
[02:10:01]
BECAUSE I COULD TAKE IT HERE AND, AND THE COMPLIANCE MARK COULD BE OVER THERE.NO, YOUR $800 INSTRUMENT IS PROBABLY BETTER.
AND MAYBE YOU COULD USE WETLANDS FUNDS TO BUY THE $800 INSTRUMENT IT WOULD SAVE BECAUSE IT'S ALL ABOUT WETLANDS.
THE OTHER, THE OTHER KIND OF A QUESTION TO MULL OVER FOR THE NEXT MEETING.
WHEN THESE GENTLEMEN ARE BACK HERE, WHEN IS THIS GONNA STOP? WHEN IS THE FLAGRANT VIOLATION? THE CONTRACTOR? IGNORANCE, BECAUSE IT'S UP TO THE CONTRACTOR TO TELL THE PROPERTY OWNER, THIS IS WHAT YOU NEED TO DO.
SO THEY NEED TO KNOW WHAT THEY NEED TO DO.
THEY NEED TO HAVE ISSUES IN PLACE.
WHEN IS THIS GOING TO STOP? I THINK THAT'S A VERY GOOD QUESTION.
SOMEBODY MAKE AN EXAMPLE OF, I DON'T CARE WHO, BUT DO IT PLEASE.
SO THIS DOESN'T CONTINUE TO HAPPEN AND WASTE YOUR TIME, THEIR TIME.
THIS HAS BEEN GOING ON IN SOME CASES FOR 40 YEARS THAT I KNOW OF, AND THE GUY GETS NOTHING BUT PRAISE.
WHAT'S GOING ON THERE? WHEN IS THIS GONNA STOP? PLEASE MULL THAT OVER IF YOU'LL AGREED.
NOW, UH, WE'D LIKE TO CLOSE THE FLOOR AND OPEN IT TO ANY MORE BOARD DISCUSSION REGARDING ANYTHING OR WHAT'S COMING UP, MR. CHAIRMAN, ON, ON, ON THAT LINE.
IT SEE, LIKE, LIKE, UH, MR. WARD WAS UP THERE A FEW MINUTES AGO.
ONE OF HIS CLIENTS WAS ONE OF THE, ONE OF HIS PREVIOUS CLIENTS THAT KNEW THEY HAD TO HAVE A PERMIT, WAS ONE OF THE PEOPLE WHO WAS, AND THE THING, SO I'M SAYING IS, AND ALSO JUST ABOUT SELLING TO SOMEBODY ELSE, I FEEL SORRY FOR THOSE PEOPLE WHO ARE CALLING YOU THAT JUST BOUGHT, BECAUSE THERE IS IGNORANCE THERE.
DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT I'M SAYING? THAT IT, AND LIKE YOU SAY, IT'S NOT JUST THE CONTRACT.
I KNOW THIS, IT IS A REALLY WEIRD SITUATION HERE, BUT I I'M NOT EVEN GETTING INTO IT, BUT HE IS BEING HONEST ABOUT IT.
I DON'T WANNA NOTHING FROM ADAM, BUT THERE'S ALSO HOME OWNERSHIP PEOPLE, MAYBE SOME OF THOSE ORIGINAL THAT SOLD THE PROPERTY IN THE MEANTIME, DIDN'T KNOW.
BUT THERE WAS ALSO PEOPLE WHO KNEW THAT YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO HAVE A PERMIT BEFORE AS A HOMEOWNER, BEFORE YOU GO BUILD ANYTHING.
IT'S, YOU KNOW WHAT I'M, SO IT'S SAYING IT'S NOT JUST THERE, IT'S THE PEOPLE WHO OWNED THE PROPERTY KNOW, LIKE I SAID, PARTICULAR ONE, HE ALREADY DONE A PERMIT FORM, WENT THROUGH PROCESS.
THE NEXT JOB THEY DO, THEY DON'T GET ONE.
YOU, YOU GET, YOU GET WHAT I'M SAYING? IT'S NOT, WE'RE WE'RE, WE'RE SLINGING HIM UP.
BUT IT'S, IT'S ALSO ON THE HOMEOWNER THEMSELVES.
YOU KNOW, YOU'RE, YOU'RE BYPASSING SOMETHING, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE BYPASSING AND IN CAPTAIN'S COVE, YOU GOING TO GET CALLED
WELL, OH, THERE'S NOT A BABY ON THAT ONE.
I HAD A LITTLE DISCUSSION WITH MR. WARD AND, UH, I'LL SPEAK TO THE, UH, MEMBERS OF THE ECC AND ENVIRONMENTAL CONTROL COMMITTEE UP THERE, SEE WHAT CAN BE DONE TO HAVE BETTER COMMUNICATIONS WITH PEOPLE IN REGARDS TO WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE.
BUT, UH, I, I REALLY, I REALLY HAVE NO EXPLANATION FOR THIS BECAUSE I KNOW THAT THEY HAVE A WATERFRONT COMMITTEE UP AT CAMPUS CODE.
THEY HAVE, THEY HAVE PATHWAYS OF COMMUNICATION.
I'M NOT QUITE SURE HOW THESE THINGS FALL THROUGH THE CRACKS SOMETIMES.
I COULD JUST, SIR, I'VE, I'VE GOTTEN A LITTLE BIT OF A PERSPECTIVE ON THIS WHOLE INDUSTRY, OBVIOUSLY UP FROM CAPTAIN'S COVE IN PARTICULAR.
AND, UH, MY UNDERSTANDING IS, UH, THE FEE FOR THESE TYPE OF BULKHEADS IS SOMEWHERE BETWEEN, UH, 25 AND 30, MAYBE $35,000 PER LOT, OBVIOUSLY, DEPENDING ON HOW WIDE THEY ARE.
BUT THEY, THESE CAN BE KNOCKED OUT IN A MATTER OF TWO TO THREE DAYS.
SO, UM, AND MOST PEOPLE WHO APPLY, WHO, WHO ARE HIRING A CONTRACTOR, ARE TOLD THIS IS GONNA TAKE 3, 4, 6 MONTHS, PROBABLY SIX MONTHS TO GET PERMITTED.
AND THAT'S, UH, QUITE A HINDRANCE ON THE CONTRACTORS WHO ARE DOING IT BY THE BOOK BECAUSE I MEAN, THAT'S A LONG TIME TO GET YOUR MONEY BETWEEN BEING HIRED AND FINISHING THE PROJECT AND COLLECTING THE BALANCE.
UM, BUT IF SOMEBODY'S GONNA GO OUT THERE AND DO THESE THINGS WITHOUT A PERMIT, THEY CAN LITERALLY MAKE WITH A COUPLE GUYS IN THE MATERIALS, A HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS IN THE COURSE OF A LITTLE BIT MORE THAN A WEEK WITH NO PERMITS.
AND THAT'S, UH, KIND OF A, IT'S THAT THE AGGRAVATING PART OF THE SITUATION IS THAT IS A VERY PROFITABLE ENTERPRISE, UM, AS OPPOSED TO DOING IT THE RIGHT WAY.
WELL, I THINK THERE'S SOME MENTION ON THAT.
I'VE BEEN IN CAPTAIN'S CO FOR 22 YEARS AND YEAH, WE HAD ONE EVERY BLUE MOON WE HAD A BUT THIS IS QUITE A FLURRY OF, UH, COMPLAINTS LIKE THIS AND IT'S VERY UNUSUAL.
SO I THINK THEY'VE BEEN DOING A GOOD JOB OF COMMUNICATING THINGS FALL THROUGH THE CRAFT.
BUT RECENTLY, UH, THIS IS SORT OF A STRANGE, THIS, THIS IS UN-NORMAL FOR THE SITUATION.
WERE THE COMPLAINTS GIVEN TO YOU OR DID YOU FIND THEM? THEY WERE ALL GIVEN TO ME.
[02:15:01]
COMMUNICATED TO SOMEBODY.WELL, PAUL, YOU'VE GOT YOUR HANDS FULL
WELL, I THINK YOU ALL ARE RIGHT.
I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT MS. GRIMES.
IT'S GOT TO END AND WE HAVE TO, WE'RE WE'RE ONE SOURCE OF HELPING, UH, WITH COMPLIANCE AND I THINK SLAPPING THE WRIST PROBABLY OVER AGREED.
IF I MAY, MR. CHAIR, UM, LEE, PAM, A DEPUTY COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR.
SO WHAT Y'ALL ARE TALKING ABOUT IS, UH, IS ACROSS ALL OF OUR DIFFERENT PROGRAMS, WHETHER THAT BE IN ENVIRONMENTAL PROGRAMS, ARE, UH, UM, UH, UH, SITE PLAN REVIEW, BUILDING PERMITS.
UH, THERE ARE SOME FOLKS WHO DO, AS I HAD MENTIONED BEFORE, THEIR DUE DILIGENCE.
AND THEN THERE'S SOME FOLKS WHO DO NOT, UH, FOR WHATEVER REASON, THEY DON'T KNOW OR THEY'RE, OR THEY'RE ACTIVELY TRYING TO SKIRT THE SYSTEM.
NOW WHAT, UM, WHAT WE HAVE ADOPTED IN OUR DEPARTMENT IS ESSENTIALLY A TWO-PRONGED APPROACH OF, NUMBER ONE, INFORM THE PEOPLE, INFORM THE FOLKS WHAT IT IS THAT THEY NEED UP FRONT.
WE WANT TO TREAT EVERYBODY OBJECTIVELY, WHETHER THEY'VE BEEN HERE FOR 40 YEARS, OR WHETHER THEY'VE JUST COME HERE, YOU KNOW, TWO MONTHS AGO, THAT EVERYBODY IS, UH, IS TREATED SIMILARLY.
AND THAT WE EXPECT THE SAME THING FROM EVERYBODY, THE SAME LEVEL OF INFORMATION, THE CLARITY OF THE PLANS, YOU KNOW, MAKING SURE THAT THE APPLICATIONS ARE COMPLETE BEFORE THEY'RE, BEFORE THEY'RE ALLOWED TO ADVANCE AGAIN, ACROSS THE BOARD, BUILDING CODE, ZONING, SUBDIVISION, ENVIRONMENTAL REGULATIONS, WHATEVER.
BUT THE OTHER PRONG OF THAT TWO PRONGED APPROACH, THE FIRST PRONG AGAIN BEING, UH, UH, PUBLIC INFORMATION, US GETTING OUT THERE INFORMING, EDUCATING, DOING THAT.
BUT THEN THE OTHER HALF OF IT IS MAKING SURE THAT WE HAVE, UH, UH, YOU KNOW, UH, CONSISTENT ENFORCEMENT.
AGAIN, 14TH AMENDMENT EQUAL PROTECTION OF THE LAW APPLIES NOT JUST TO THE APPLICATIONS, BUT ALSO TO THE ENFORCEMENT.
SO THOSE ARE THE TWO THINGS THAT I WOULD JUST ASK IF YOU ALL ARE THINKING ABOUT THIS ISSUE.
UM, THAT'S WHAT OUR APPROACH IS GOING TO BE AND WHAT THE STAFF AND I ARE GONNA BE DOING.
WE'VE ALREADY, WE'VE ALREADY HAD ONE PUBLIC INFORMATION SESSION WITH REGARDS TO JUST OUR OVERALL YOU, WHAT DO WE DO IN COMMUNITY AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT.
BUT THIS SERIES OF PUBLIC INFORMATION SESSIONS, THE LAST ONE WE DID WAS IN AUGUST OF LAST YEAR, WE'RE DUE TO HAVE ANOTHER ONE.
UM, WE COULD HAVE ONE ON A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT THINGS.
WE COULD HAVE ONE ON, YOU KNOW, HOW DO YOU BUILD A BULKHEAD IN AKIMA COUNTY? HOW DO YOU START A BUSINESS IN AKIMA COUNTY? YOU KNOW, WHAT ARE SOME OF THE ROUTINE RESIDENTIAL PROJECT PERMITTING THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE? ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING THAT WE CAN, UH, THAT WE CAN INFORM THE PUBLIC ON THAT WE COULD DO, THAT WE COULD BE DOING BETTER, UH, COULD HOPEFULLY, UH, UH, PREVENT SOME OF THESE, UH, UH, SOME OF THESE STRUGGLES.
I THINK THAT ONE KEY, UH, ONE KEY, UH, UH, STAKEHOLDER GROUP IS ALSO THE REAL ESTATE AGENTS.
SO, YOU KNOW, UH, INFORMING THE REAL ESTATE AGENTS INFORMING, YOU KNOW, MR. ICK, THE HOAS UP FRONT, THESE ARE, THESE ARE THE EXPECTATIONS FOR, YOU KNOW, FOR, UH, FOR BUILDING A BULKHEAD OR DOING SOMETHING OF THAT NATURE.
SO IT COULDN'T, YOU KNOW, IT JUST HAS TO BE A ONE HOUR SESSION OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
OR WE GO TO THE, YOU KNOW, I'VE ALREADY TRIED TO REACH OUT TO THE REAL ESTATE, UH, TO THE REAL ESTATE COMMUNITY AND HAVE NOT RECEIVED A RESPONSE AS TO WHO'S IN CHARGE OF THE LOCAL, LOCAL REAL ESTATE GROUP.
BUT, YOU KNOW, ADDRESSING DIFFERENT STAKEHOLDERS, HAVING PUBLIC INFORMATION SESSIONS, BUT THEN ON THE OTHER SIDE, HAVING THAT CONSISTENT AND OBJECTIVE ENFORCEMENT.
I THINK IT'S SOMETHING WE NEED TO BE TALKING ABOUT AMONGST THE, THE GROUP HERE AND LEARNING EVERYTHING WE CAN.
AND I TOTALLY AGREE THAT, UH, WE'VE BEEN RISK SLAPPING AND IT'S PROBABLY TIME THAT WE, UH, START DOING A LITTLE MORE.
AND, UM, MAYBE THAT WILL TURN THE TIDE A LITTLE BIT.
UH, IS THERE ANY MORE COMMENTS FROM THE GROUP? YEAH, ONE MOMENT.
LEE, WHEN, WHEN YOU'VE DONE THE HOUSE, YOU HAVE STAGED INSPECTIONS, PUTTER INSPECT, FOUNDATIONS, INSPECT, JUST FRAMINGS INSPECTED YOU, YOUR, YOUR, YOUR, UH, UH, EVERYTHING.
IT'S, SO WHAT I'M SAYING IS MAYBE WE NEED TO PHASE IN WHERE WE DON'T GET CAUGHT IN C END PROJECT AND, AND JUST LIKE ONE OF THE PROJECTS HERE, AND I'M LIKE, TAKE ONE.
WE DIDN'T CATCH IT UNTIL ANOTHER PERMIT WAS SUPPLIED FOR GET, KNOW WHAT I'M SAYING? WE DIDN'T, WE DIDN'T CATCH THAT IT WAS DONE WRONG UNTIL ANOTHER PERMIT WAS APPLIED FOR IN THAT SITUATION.
WE DIDN'T CATCH IT JUST TO CATCH IT, IT GOT CAUGHT WITH ANOTHER, A SITE VISIT FOR A, FOR ANOTHER PERMIT THAT WAS DONE.
SO WHAT I'M SAYING IS START DATE MIGHT THAT WE GIVE A PERMIT FOR TWO YEARS.
THEY SHOULD HAVE A START DATE WHEN THEY, WHEN THEY GET STARTED, THE COUNTY SHOULD BE CONTACTED,
[02:20:01]
TELL ME IF I'M RIGHT OR WRONG.AND THAT, AND THEN THEN THE MEDICAL CAN SAY WHEN THEY PUT THE FRAMING IT BEFORE YOU PUT THE SHEETING DOWN, LIKE CAN SAY, MAKE SURE EVERYTHING IS IN RATE, HAVE ADD INSPECTION THAT WAY.
IT WORKS BETTER FOR THE CONTRACTOR AND US, BUT IF YOU DON'T MAKE 'EM BE HONEST, THAT'S WHEN IT DON'T, THAT'S WHEN HONESTY LEAVES, RIGHT? WHAT YOU'RE, WHAT YOU'RE REFERRING TO IS ACCOUNTABILITY.
AND, UM, AND THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WE INTEND ON HOLDING, YOU KNOW, WHETHER YOU'RE A CONTRACTOR, APPLICANT, A HOMEOWNER OR WHATEVER.
IF, IF WE'RE AWARE OF IT, YOU KNOW, WE'RE NOT, WE'RE NOT HERE TO HAMSTRING PEOPLE FROM A REGULATORY STANDPOINT.
WE WANT IT DONE BY THE PROCESS AND THE LAW BECAUSE WE WANT THEM TO BE SAFE.
BUT, UM, BUT, UH, YOU KNOW, DOING DUE DILIGENCE ALSO PREVENTS, UH, THESE SURPRISES THAT HAPPEN ON DOWN THE LINE.
OH, WELL I DIDN'T KNOW I HAD TO DO THAT.
I DIDN'T KNOW I NEEDED TO GET THAT PERMIT, OR I DIDN'T KNOW I NEEDED TO DO IT A CERTAIN WAY.
UH, THAT AGAIN, IS WHERE THE INFORMATION, THE EDUCATION COMES IN.
UM, WHAT I WILL ADD, YOU KNOW, SPECIFICALLY TO INSPECTION PROCESS AND, AND, AND REVIEW AND ALL THAT STUFF, UM, UH, UH, JULIE FLOYD HAS HAD, UH, WAS THE LEAD ON A, AN AD HOC WORKING GROUP FOR THE STAFF TO TAKE A LOOK SPECIFICALLY AT BULKHEAD DESIGN.
UM, YOU KNOW, WHAT DO WE NEED TO DO IN ORDER TO GET CLEARER PLANS? THAT HAS CLEARLY BEEN AN ISSUE THAT I'VE OBSERVED OVER THE PAST TWO YEARS THAT I'VE BEEN HERE, THAT YOU HAVE SOME FOLKS THAT, THAT BRING IN CLEAR PLANS WITH ALL OF THE DIMENSIONS AND BELIEVE I'VE MENTIONED THIS BEFORE, THIS BOARD BEFORE, BUT NOT JUST WHAT DO WE NEED TO, YOU KNOW, WHAT DO WE NEED FOR THE CLEARER PLANS.
UH, JULIE'S GROUP HAD ALSO GONE OUT AND ASKED OTHER LOCALITIES FROM A BUILDING CODE STANDPOINT, UH, YOU KNOW, WHAT DO THEY REQUIRE? HOW DO THEY SEE, UH, HOW DO THEY SEE THESE BULKHEADS AND WHAT OTHER REGULATIONS ARE INVOLVED IN, IN REVIEWING AND APPROVING THAT.
THE BUILDING CODE IS CLEARLY ONE OF THOSE OTHER CODES.
SO YOU HAVE THE ENVIRONMENTAL REGULATIONS ON ONE SIDE WITH, YOU KNOW, WITH THE, WITH THE JURISDICTIONAL ISSUES THAT YOU ALL DEAL WITH.
BUT THEN THE OTHER PART OF IT TOO IS THE BUILDING CODE.
AND WHEN YOU INTRODUCE THE BUILDING CODE INTO THE SITUATION, THAT'S WHEN YOU START TO GET MORE OF THIS REGIMENTED, UH, YOU KNOW, UH, PROCESS FOR, UH, INSPECTIONS AND ULTIMATE, UM, YOU KNOW, FINAL APPROVAL.
SO, UH, ALL OF THAT TAKES, UM, YOU KNOW, IT WILL HAVE AN IMPACT ON, ON A, ON A WORKLOAD ON OUR BANDWIDTH TO DO CERTAIN THINGS.
AND I THINK THAT, UH, AS LONG AS WE'RE HEARING FROM THE VARIOUS AGENTS SUCH AS MS. GRIMES, THE VARIOUS CONTRACTORS WHO'VE COME IN AND SAID, WELL, WHAT ABOUT THAT GUY? HE GOT TO DO IT THAT WAY.
HOW COME I'M DOING THINGS RIGHT? AND THAT GUY GETS, UH, GET GETS BY.
UH, THESE ARE THE KINDS OF THINGS THAT WE HOPE TO BRING MORE CONSISTENCY AND OBJECTIVITY TO AT THIS POINT.
ARE, ARE YOU INSPECTING ALL, UH, WETLANDS PERMITTED STRUCTURES? NO.
I KNOW LIKE VMRC HAS THEIR COMPLIANCE GUY, THEY WILL COME AROUND AND DO ONE OUT OF 10.
I THINK IT'S THE, THE GENERAL NUMBER, JUST KIND OF A SAMPLING.
AND I DIDN'T KNOW IF THE COUNTY WAS DOING ANYMORE, UH, INSPECTIONS.
I THINK THAT WE, YOU KNOW, WE, WE WOULD REACT TO COMPLAINTS AS WE HAVE DONE THIS TIME.
AND THEN WE'D ALSO REACT TO, UH, TO ANYTHING THAT WE OBSERVE AS THE STAFF.
SO IF OUR BUILDING INSPECTORS ARE OUT THERE, OUR ZONING INSPECTORS ARE GOING UP AND DOWN THE ROAD AND THEY SEE SOMETHING THAT DOESN'T LOOK QUITE RIGHT OR THAT WASN'T LIKE THAT YESTERDAY, OR I KNOW FOR A FACT THAT THEY SHOULD HAVE GOTTEN A PERMIT AND THEY HAVEN'T POSTED ONE, THEN THOSE, UH, THOSE OTHER PERSONNEL IN, IN, UH, IN, IN SOME OF OUR OTHER FUNCTIONS WOULD LET PAUL OR PREVIOUSLY BETH OR OR JULIE KNOW, HEY, THIS ISN'T MY BAILIWICK, BUT I SAW SOMETHING A LITTLE WEIRD OUT THERE ON THAT SITE.
CAN YOU GO CHECK IT, CHECK IT OUT AND TAKE A LOOK AT IT AND, AND, AND PURSUE IT? AND I KNOW Y'ALL DON'T HAVE ENOUGH PERSONNEL TO DO, DO IT ALL.
LET, LET ME ASK YOU GET A, YOU NEED A BUILDING PREVENT TO PUT IN A BULKHEAD, 'CAUSE WE TALKED ABOUT THIS BEFORE.
BUILDING PREVENT FOR PUTTING IN A REVETMENT.
NO, THAT'S NOT, UH, THAT'S NOT A STRUCTURE.
IN, IN THE, IN THE EYES OF THE, OF THE BUILDING CODE, RIGHT? MM-HMM
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? THANK YOU, SIR.
UH, ANYTHING ELSE FROM THE BOARD? ALRIGHT, UH, NEXT MEETING WILL BE, UH, APRIL 24TH.
SO WE HOPE EVERYBODY IS SAFE AND HAPPY AND HEALTHY TILL THEN.
UH, AS FOR A MOTION TO ADJOURN, PLEASE, MR. A CHAIRMAN.