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MORNING.[Wetlands Board on May 22, 2025.]
TO ORDER.WELCOME TO THE MAY, 2025 MEETING OF THE AKIMA COUNTY WETLANDS BOARD.
WHILE GOING THROUGH INTRODUCTORY REMARKS, PLEASE TAKE THE TIME TO SILENCE ALL THE CELL PHONES.
WETLANDS BOARD CONSISTS OF FIVE MEMBERS.
APPROVAL OF THE PERMITS REQUIRE MAJORITY VOTE OR THREE YAY VOTES.
TODAY WE HAVE ALL FIVE MEMBERS PRESENT.
WE HAVE A QUORUM FROM MY RIGHT TO LEFT.
MR. ICK, VICE CHAIR, MR. WARD.
MR. TAYLOR, MR. BADGER? I'M TEA LEE.
IF I MIGHT INTRODUCE OUR STAFF AND OFFICIALS PRESENT.
WE HAVE MS. JULIE FLOYD, UH, WHO IS ENVIRONMENTAL PERMIT SPECIALIST, MS. GINGER HARMON, UH, ADMINISTRATIVE ASSISTANT MR. PAUL WATSON, DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF CODE ADMINISTRATION DIVISION, MR. LEE PAMED.
UH, DEPUTY COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR, MS. CLAIRE GORMAN, VIRGINIA MARINE RESOURCE COMMISSION.
SHE'S A SUMMER INTERN WITH, UH, MS. GORMAN.
UH, THE BOARD IS AWARE AND COMPLIES AS CLOSELY AS POSSIBLE TO THE OBJECTIVES OF THE VIRGINIA MARINE RESOURCES COMMISSION WETLANDS POLICY OF NO NET LOSS.
ALL APPROVED PERMITS ARE GRANTED FOR A TWO YEAR PERIOD FROM THE DATE OF THIS HEARING, UNLESS SPECIFICALLY NOTED ALL PERSONS SPEC, UH, SPEAKING BEFORE THIS BOARD WILL BE SWORN IN.
ALL RIGHT, IF WE MIGHT MOVE ON FOLKS.
UH, ITEM TWO IS ADOPTION OF THE AGENDA.
EVERYBODY, UH, GOT AN AGENDA SOONER OR LATER.
UH, AND THEN YOU GOT A NEW ONE THIS MORNING OR EMAILED TO YOU WITH JUST ONE SMALL CHANGE.
WE FLIPPED ONE CASE IN NEW BUSINESS.
UH, SO I HOPE EVERYONE'S HAD TIME TO LOOK IT OVER AT LEAST, UH, SINCE YOU'VE BEEN HERE.
SO IF THERE ARE ANY QUESTIONS, COMMENTS, PLEASE FROM THE BOARD.
IF NOT, ASK FOR A MOTION TO ACCEPT.
MR. TAYLOR, MAY I ASK FOR A SECOND? THANK YOU.
ITEM NUMBER THREE, UH, MINUTES OF THE APRIL MEETING THAT WAS HELD THE 5TH OF MAY, AS YOU ALL KNOW AND REMEMBER, BUT IT WAS APRIL'S MEETING.
UM, WE HAVE RECEIVED A COPY BY EMAIL.
AND ALSO, UH, AFTER A COUPLE OF CHANGES, UH, THERE, IT'S IN YOUR PACKET.
SO I HOPE EVERYONE'S HAD TIME TO LOOK OVER THE MINUTES FROM LAST MONTH'S MEETING.
ANY QUESTIONS? COMMENTS? THANK YOU.
I ASKED FOR A MOTION TO ACCEPT.
I'LL ACCEPT, UH, MAKE A SECOND.
DURING THE BOOK, ALL RIGHT, WE MIGHT MOVE ON.
UH, THIS IS GOING TO BE, UH, A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT.
UH, WE HAVE FOUR ITEMS OF NEW BUSINESS AND, UH, IT LOOKED LIKE MOST OF THEM ARE GONNA BE ON THE SEASIDE UP, UH, IN MR. ICKS TERRITORY.
SO WE'RE GONNA BE CALLING ON HIM QUITE OFTEN.
UH, FIRST ITEM IS JPA, UH, 2, 5 0.
THE JPA ENDS IN, UH, OH 5 5 7.
UH, BASICALLY IT'S AFTER THE FACT AS MOST OF THEM ARE.
GIMME JUST A SECOND AFTER THE FACT PERMIT FOR A BULKHEAD.
UM, SIR, MR. WATSON, MAY I SWEAR YOU IN? DO YOU SWEAR YOU TELL THE TRUTH, WHOLE TRUTH AND EVERYTHING TO THIS BOARD? YES.
WOULD YOU CONTINUE WITH, UH, 0 5 5 7? GIVE US THE RUNDOWN.
UM, THIS WAS AN AFTER THE FACT PERMIT OF THE BULKHEAD IS ALREADY BUILT.
IT'S THE STANDARD BULKHEAD REPLACEMENT IN CAPTAIN'S CODE, APPROXIMATELY TWO FEET SEAWARD OF AN EXISTING BULKHEAD.
UM, ACCESS WAS BY LAND AND BY BARGE.
UM, THIS WAS A BULKHEAD WITH A BOAT LIFT.
THE BOAT LIFT, UH, WAS ADDED LATER TO THE APPLICATION.
UM, OF COURSE, ON A MANMADE CANAL AT, UH, AT 3 7 4 6 7 BAYSIDE DRIVE.
HERE'S THE AERIAL OF THE HOUSE FROM AOUN AND, UH, THE AERIAL FROM THE APPLICATION SHOWING OF THE OLD BULKHEAD, THE NEW BULKHEAD, AND ALSO
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THE PILINGS FOR THE NEW BOAT LIFT.ALL OF THAT, OF COURSE, HAS ALREADY BEEN, UH, CONSTRUCTED.
THE YES, SIR, BOAT LIFT HAS NOT BEEN PUT ON THE PILINGS, BUT THE PILINGS ARE IN, AND HERE IS THE CROSS SECTION OF THE OLD BULKHEAD AND THE NEW BULKHEAD.
AND, UH, JOHN MEAN LOW WATER AND MEAN HOT WATER.
AND THIS GETS INTO, UH, THE VIOLATION ASPECT OF THIS.
UM, I, I WOULD SAY JUST GENERALLY WITH THIS TYPE OF APPLICATION, UM, IT'S THE BOARD'S POLICY, UH, TO HEAR THESE TYPE OF APPLICATIONS WHEN THEY'RE WETLANDS INVOLVED.
UM, MEANING, UH, VISIBLE WETLANDS, MEANING FROM A DEGRADED BULKHEAD, EITHER ON THE, UH, LAND SIDE OR THE SEA SIDE OF THE DEGRADED BULKHEAD THAT'S BEING REPLACED.
UM, IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, UH, WE DID NOT HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO CHECK FOR THAT, UH, BEFORE THE NEW BULKHEAD WAS PUT IN.
ALL OF THESE, UH, COULD BE JURISDICTIONAL, MEANING WHETHER WE SEE THE WETLANDS ON EITHER SIDE.
'CAUSE WHEN YOU PUT IN A NEW BULKHEAD, UM, SEAWARD OF AN EXISTING BULKHEAD, UM, THE EXISTING BULKHEAD IS NOT TAKEN OUT.
BUT THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY THE CASE, AND YOU DON'T ASSUME THAT THE OLD BULKHEAD IS GONNA BE THERE FOREVER.
SO THIS WOULD BE AKIN TO JUST PUTTING IN A BULKHEAD PERIOD, TWO FEET SEAWARD OF DRY LAND.
AND OF COURSE THAT WOULD BE JURISDICTIONAL BECAUSE YOU WOULD BE AFFECTING THE LAND BETWEEN MEAN HIGH AND MEAN LOW WATER.
UM, I'VE SPOKEN TO VMRC ABOUT THIS WHEN I FIRST TOOK OVER THIS ROLE, AND IT WAS EXPLAINED TO ME THAT THIS IS, UH, THE WAY THIS BOARD HANDLES IT IS SQUARELY WITHIN THE BOARD'S DISCRETION AND, UH, AND, AND, AND WAS AGREEABLE TO THEM IN ALL RESPECTS, ESPECIALLY AGREEABLE IN THIS CIRCUMSTANCE WHERE THESE ARE MANMADE CANALS AND B THAT'S CORRECT.
UH, ANYWAY, UH, SO I GUESS THE BOTTOM LINE IS THAT, UH, THAT THIS TYPE OF APPLICATION WOULD NORMALLY BE HEARD, BUT FOR THE REASONS I STATED, I BROUGHT IT BEFORE THE BOARD TO BE HEARD.
AND, UH, AS YOU ALSO WELL KNOW, IF I MAY SPEAK, I-V-M-R-C IS ASKED US TO HEAR MANY CASES THAT REALLY ARE OUT OF OUR JURISDICTION.
THEY JUST ASKED US TO MAKE SURE.
SO THIS IS CERTAINLY SQUARELY THIS PART ON OUR SHOULDERS, WHETHER WE HAVE A LOT TO DO WITH IT OR NOT.
SO I HOPE EVERYONE UNDERSTANDS THAT.
GOING IN, UH, MR. CHAIR, I HAVE A QUICK QUESTION.
AND SO YOU'RE SAYING THAT NEITHER THE CONTRACTOR BUILDER OWNERS HAVE ANY PRE PHOTOS OF THE BULKHEAD BEFORE IT WAS REPAIRED.
IS THAT ESSENTIALLY WHAT YOU'RE SAYING? UH, THAT I HAVE NOT BEEN PROVIDED WITH ANY OF THOSE.
UM, I WOULD, I DID NOT MENTION ONE THING THAT I SHOULD IS THAT, UH, THE BOARD SPECIFICALLY REQUESTED FOR ALL OF THESE APPLICATIONS THAT A DEADMAN A DEADMAN INSPECTION BE CONDUCTED? ABSOLUTELY.
UH, FOR THIS PARTICULAR PROPERTY, ONE OF THE DEADMAN WAS EXPOSED.
UM, OUR INSPECTOR DID LOOK AT IT.
UM, THERE WAS SOME DISAGREEMENT ABOUT WHETHER IT WAS ONE OR ALL OF THEM NEEDED TO BE INSPECTED.
WE CHECKED THE MINUTES, WE DETERMINED THAT ALL OF THEM NEEDED TO BE INSPECTED.
I THEN COMMUNICATED THAT, UH, TO THE, UH, CONTRACTORS AND TOLD THEM THAT IT WOULD BE BEST IF THEY JUST EXPOSED ALL OF THEM ON ALL OF THE BULKHEADS.
AND OUR INSPECTOR COULD COME OUT AND DO IT ALL AT ONCE.
IT'D BE CONVENIENT FOR EVERYONE.
UM, I FOLLOWED UP ABOUT A WEEK AGO JUST REMINDING THEM THAT THEY NEEDED TO DO THAT.
MY, THE RESPONSE WAS, YOU KNOW, THANKS FOR THE HEADS UP.
SO OTHER THAN THE ONE DEAD MAN THAT'S BEEN INSPECTED FROM MR. ROSETTI, NONE OF THE OTHERS HAVE BEEN INSPECTED.
AND WE'VE ALREADY GOTTEN THIS THING UP UPSIDE DOWN AND BACKWARDS.
I KNEW IT WAS GONNA BE THIS WAY TODAY, UH, BUT YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT, SIR.
UH, WE ADVISED THAT SOMEONE LOOK AT ALL DEAD MAN, UM, LEAVE IT VACANT, CALL YOU AND TAKE A LOOK AT 'EM.
UH, DOES EVERYBODY ELSE REMEMBER THAT, UH, ONE DOESN'T CUT IT? WE WANTED, UH, SOMEONE TO LOOK AT ALL OF 'EM AND THAT'S THE WAY IT WAS PUT TO, UH, YOU OR BEFORE YOU SOMEONE ELSE.
BUT, UH, ANYWAY, UH, IF WE MAY GO ANY, ANYTHING ELSE, SIR, FOR THE MOMENT FROM YOU? UM, NO, THAT'S ALL.
UH, IS THERE ANYONE ELSE THAT WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK DIRECTLY ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR JPA? ALRIGHT, THANK YOU.
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YES MA'AM, PLEASE, BETH, NONE.MA'AM, DO YOU FIRMLY SWEAR THAT YOU'LL TELL THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH IN ALL MATTERS BEFORE THIS BOARD? I DO.
MS. BETH NUNLEY, NICE TO SEE YOU, MY DEAR.
UM, YEAH, I DID THE PAPERWORK FOR THE, UM, JPA AFTER THE FACT J PS AND IT'S MY EXPERT OPINION THAT IT'S NOT LIKELY THAT THERE WAS ANY WETLANDS AT THAT LOCATION.
AND NOTHING, UH, AFFECTED AT ALL, IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING? THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING, YES MA'AM.
IT'S NOT LIKELY THAT THERE WAS, UM, OKAY.
CAN I JUST ADD, SO, BUT DO YOU HAVE ANY, YOU ONLY GOT THERE AFTER THE FACT, SO YOU DON'T HAVE ANY PRE PHOTOGRAPHS OR NO, SIR.
UH, I'VE GOT ANOTHER QUESTION.
UM, THE EXISTING BULKHEAD, WAS THAT ABOVE OR BELOW BEING LOW WATER? WHEN IT, UM, FROM WHAT I NOTICED ON SITE, THAT WAS, UM, THAT WAS A, THE, THE, UM, TIDE RISES AND FALLS ON THE, ON THE EXISTING, THE OLD BALL KIT? YES, THAT'S CORRECT.
UH, JUST A SECOND SIR, IF YOU WILL.
IS THERE ANYONE WANTS TO SPEAK OF THIS PARTICULAR JPA? PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME FOR THE RECORD.
MAY I SWEAR YOU IN, SIR? YES, SIR.
DO YOU FIRMLY SWEAR YOU TELL THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH AND ALL MATTERS BEFORE THIS BOARD? YES, SIR.
UM, DISCREPANCY I HAD IS ON THE, I WAS HERE AT THAT LAST MEETING AND WHEN YOU GUYS SAID YOU WANTED ALL THAT INSPECTION DONE AND, AND I HEARD IT WITH MY OWN EARS.
AND, UM, WHEN WE CALLED, WE ACTUALLY HAD TO, UM, EMAIL MR. WATSON, ME AND MR. ROSETTI, THE HOMEOWNER, ABOUT SAFETY ISSUES BECAUSE THE, IT WAS OPEN AND IT WAS TOLD NOT TO DO ANYTHING ELSE WITH IT BEING OPEN WITH THE BULKHEAD WAS BEING OPEN WITH ALL THE TIEBACKS THERE.
AND MR. ROSETTI SAID IT WAS A MAIN, YOU KNOW, IT WAS A MAJOR SAFETY ISSUE TO FINISH WHAT WE WERE DOING AND COMPLETE THAT.
SO NOBODY GOT HURT, NO, NOBODY GOT WOUNDED, ANYTHING OF THAT NATURE.
SO FINALLY WE GOT AN AGREEMENT FROM MR. WATSON THAT WE COULD CONTINUE TO FINISH IT AND COMPLETE IT AND GET IT BACKFILLED SO IT WOULDN'T BE A SAFETY ISSUE.
AND WE CALLED FOR AN INSPECTION AND THEY CAME DOWN TO INSPECT AND WE HAD ONE OF THEM.
AND THE, THE GUY SAID, NEVER DID MAKE A, UH, UH, SAY HE NEEDED ALL TO SEE ALL OF THEM.
UM, WE ACTUALLY SEEN, I ACTUALLY HEARD THAT AT A MEETING AND WE ACTUALLY CONTACTED MR. WATSON TO EXPOSE ALL THESE DIFFERENT LOCATIONS TO BE INSPECTED AND HE SAID WE COULDN'T DO ANYTHING UNTIL AFTER THIS MEETING.
SO THAT'S WHY WE DIDN'T DO THAT.
WE DIDN'T DO IT JUST 'CAUSE WE JUST SAID, OH, WE'RE NOT GONNA DO IT, YOU KNOW, WE'RE GONNA DO WHATEVER WE DO TO COMPLY.
WE, SO THAT'S WHAT I, WE WERE TOLD.
SO THAT'S WHY WE DIDN'T EXPOSE THESE OTHER PLACES AND HAVE 'EM INSPECTED BEFORE THIS MEETING.
WE DIDN'T DO IT JUST TO NOT TO DO IT.
UM, ALRIGHT, SIR, WOULD YOU EXPLAIN FOR ME, IF YOU DON'T MIND THE HAZARDS, UH, THAT WOULD'VE POSSIBLY TAKEN PLACE IF YOU HAD NOT GONE AHEAD WITH THE WORK? WELL, YOU GOT A BULKHEAD OPEN AND IT'S, YOU KNOW, YOU'VE DUG DOWN, YOU'VE GOT A BIG AREA THAT'S LIKE A, LIKE A VOID THERE, LIKE A CRATER.
I MEAN, AND SO IT'S THE PROPERTY, NOT NECESSARILY A HEALTH OR A PERSONAL, UH, ISSUE.
JUST THAT IT, AS WE ALL WELL KNOW, UH, IT, IT WOULD GONE BEHIND IT AND TORN UP A LOT.
IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING? YOU GOT PIECE THE WOOD AND PIECES OF YES, SIR.
YOU KNOW, FRACTURED, YOU KNOW, OLD METAL THAT'S IN THERE FROM OLD TIEBACK RODS OR, WELL, UM, AS FAR AS CHECKING ALL TIEBACKS, WE WILL HAVE TO GET INTO THAT AND HAVE A HARD, FAST RULE UNDERSTANDING THERE.
UH, MR. BRITTON SHAKING HIS HEAD AT ME BECAUSE WE'VE BEEN THROUGH IT 25 TIMES, SO YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT AS FAR AS CREATING MORE DAMAGE, UH, IF YOU LEAVE IT OPEN, IT'LL BE GONE.
UH, BUT, UH, WE WILL HAVE TO TAKE THAT UNDER ADVISEMENT AND WE WILL HAVE TO HAVE A HARD, FAST RULE BASED ON THAT, UH, IN THE VERY NEAR FUTURE, MR. WATSON, THAT'S GONNA BE ON YOUR SHOULDERS, I'M AFRAID.
AND WE RECEIVED AN EMAIL FRIDAY THAT'S JUST PASSED FROM MR. WATSON STATING THAT WE NEEDED TO HAVE THEM ALL THEM INSPECTIONS DONE BEFORE THIS MEETING THURSDAY.
SO FROM FRIDAY TO THURSDAY, WHAT WE'VE HAD, YOU KNOW, RIGHT DAY OR TWO ARRANGED.
SO WE'VE NOT BEEN ABLE TO, TO DO THAT, BUT WE DIDN'T RECEIVE THAT EMAIL AND SAY, WE NEED THESE INSPECTIONS DONE FROM HIM FOR THIS MEETING UNTIL
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FRIDAY OF LAST WEEK.UM, JUST EVERYBODY WAIT, UH, SIR, UH, I HEAR YOU FEEL YOUR PAIN, UM, GOT THE EMAIL, UM, WITH HARD MAIL, ET CETERA.
WE'VE ALL BEEN LOOKING AT THIS FOR TWO DAYS.
WE OF COURSE COULD GO ONLINE AND LOOK AT SOME OF IT AND WE KNOW SOME OF YOUR SITUATION FROM MONTHS PAST, BUT, UH, LITERALLY I GOT MINE WHEN I LEFT THE OFFICE, UH, UH, TUESDAY NIGHT.
AND SO WE, WE FEEL YOUR PAIN AND WE'RE GONNA DO BETTER JOB.
UH, BUT UH, STILL WE HAVE TO HAVE SOME HARD, FAST RULES ABOUT INSPECTION, ET CETERA.
AND WE'VE ALL GOTTA COME TOGETHER AND WE'D APPRECIATE WHEN TIME COMES, EVERYBODY'S INPUT, EVERY CONTRACTOR.
AND THEN WE'LL BOIL IT DOWN AND WE'LL COME UP WITH SOMETHING.
UH, WE'LL HOLD QUESTIONS FOR COMMENTS.
MR. WATSON, YOU'VE BEEN SWORN IN, UM, THE DAY OF THE ROSETTI INSPECTION, UM, I SPOKE TO MR. LUKE BRITTON AND ADVISED HIM THAT ONE, WELL, HE TOLD ME THAT HE THOUGHT ONE WAS GOOD ENOUGH.
I TOLD HIM THAT I, THAT WAS NOT OUR RECOLLECTION.
MS. FLOYD CHECKED THE MINUTES.
I GOT BACK TO HIM WITHIN, I BELIEVE THE DAY THE NEXT DAY AND TOLD HIM WE NEEDED ALL FOUR AND WE NEEDED IT FOR ALL OF THEM AND VERY CLEAR COMMUNICATION THAT WE NEEDED THAT MY EMAIL LAST FRIDAY WAS MERELY A REMINDER BECAUSE THEY HAD NOT DONE IT YET.
UM, AND I JUST SAID AS A REMINDER, YOU NEED TO DO THIS.
THAT, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE A MEETING COMING UP, UH, MAY 22ND.
HE SPECIFICALLY AGREED THAT HE WOULD EXPOSE ALL OF THEM.
UH, I SAID THAT WOULD BE MOST CONVENIENT.
OUR INSPECTORS UP THERE ALMOST EVERY DAY.
HE CAN DO ALL FOUR IN 15, 20 MINUTES.
HE AGREED THAT THAT WOULD BE DONE THE DAY OR TWO AFTER THE ROSETTI ONE DEAD MAN INSPECTION.
SHOULD HAVE BEEN NO SURPRISE WHEN I EMAILED LAST FRIDAY, BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY WE HAD THAT VERY SPECIFIC CONVERSATION.
MY EMAIL LAST FRIDAY WAS SIMPLY A REMINDER AS A COURTESY TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY KNEW TO DO THAT BEFORE THIS MEETING AND WE HEARD NOTHING FROM THEM SINCE OTHER THAN I GOT A RESPONSE SAYING, YOU KNOW, THANK YOU, WE'LL DO IT.
UH, ANYONE ELSE WANNA SPEAK SPECIFICALLY? MICROPHONE.
WE HAVE A MICROPHONE SOMEWHERE HERE, BILL.
UH, BET YOU CAN
DO YOU SWEAR YOU TELL THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH IN ALL MATTERS BEFORE THIS BOARD? I DO.
ALRIGHT, MR. BRITTON, LET'S HEAR WHAT YOU GOTTA SAY ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR JPA, THIS PARTICULAR BOBCAT.
THE PREVIOUS OWNER, UH, RICHARD BUTLER, UH, TWO YEARS AGO I THINK IT WAS, HE CAME TO ME AND BOUGHT A BUNCH OF, UH, USED SHEATHING FROM IT AND HE DUG BY HAND BEHIND THIS BULKHEAD AND REPLACED THE SHEATHING BEHIND IT.
AND I TOLD HIM, I SAID, RICHARD, YOU'RE PUTTING USED SHEATHING IN, IT'S NOT GOING TO LAST.
HE SAID, WELL, I JUST WANT TO GET IT DONE TO LAY THE CELL, OR HE HAD CANCER, UH, PASSED.
HE SAID, HE SAID, I'M JUST TRYING TO TEMPORARILY GET IT DONE.
AND HE DID AND HE BACKED THERE AND THERE WAS NO WETLANDS BEHIND THIS BULKHEAD.
I COULD ATTACH ATTEST TO THAT, THAT THERE WAS NOTHING, NO BOYS BEHIND THIS BULKHEAD OR ANYTHING.
AND WHEN THIS NEW OWNER BOUGHT IT, I GUESS HE SAW THE WOODEN BULKHEAD AGAIN, LUKE.
AND, UH, SHE PUT A NEW BULKHEAD IN FOR IT.
BUT THERE WAS NO VEGETATION OR ANY BOARDS BEHIND THE OLD BULKHEAD IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE.
I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THE EVIDENCE.
BUT, UH, WAS THERE A JPA INVOLVED WHETHER WET VEG OR NOT? WHAT THE OLD MAN DONE HIMSELF? I DOUBT VERY CERTAINLY BECAUSE HE DID IT ALL BY HAND.
UH, AND HE, HE INSTALLED IT HIMSELF BEHIND THE OLD BULKHEAD.
AND BECAUSE THAT WAS DONE IN IMPROPER FASHION WITH NO JPA NO INSPECTION, UH, I, I, I THINK WE NEED TO MOVE BEYOND THAT.
UH, AND IT'S, IT'S, NO, IT'S SAD, SAD DEAL.
BUT, UH, THAT WAS WRONG IN ITSELF.
IS HE AROUND, HAS HE PASSED? HAS HE MOVED AWAY? HE'S GONE AND SOLD THE PROPERTY? YES SIR.
THANK YOU FOR YOUR INFORMATION.
UM, IS THERE ANYONE ELSE THAT HAS INFORMATION ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR JPA? WOULD YOU COME FORWARD, SIR? STATE YOUR NAME FOR THE RECORD.
I AM JOSEPH TI I'M THE NEW HOMEOWNER.
YOU SWEAR OR AFFIRM YOU TELL THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH ALL MATTERS BEFORE THIS BOARD? I DO, SIR.
SIR, YOU ARE THE PROPERTY OWNER? UH, YES SIR.
OR THIS JPA ENDING IN 0 5 5 7.
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I TOOK A FEW PHOTOS OF THE WORK THAT WAS BEING DONE AND SHOWS THE DEAD MEN AND SHOWS THAT THERE WAS NO WETLANDS.WOULD THAT HELP PREVENT US FROM THAT PICK ANYTHING UP AGAIN, MY PERSONAL FEELING, UH, IS THAT IT WILL NOT, WE NEED, UH, EYES ON INSPECTION.
I CANNOT ANSWER THAT, BUT WE'LL GET AN ANSWER FOR YOU BEFORE WE LEAVE TODAY.
UH, SO YOU'RE SAYING YOU TOOK A PICTURE WHEN IT WAS EXPOSED, BUT, UM, I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW WHAT A PICTURE WOULD SHOW OF US AS FAR AS, UH, ALL THE DEAD MEN.
WELL, YOU CAN SEE THE STAINLESS SEAL TIE RODS AND WHERE THE DEAD MEN.
UH, WE WILL GET AN ANSWER FOR YOU.
UM, I CAN ANSWER THAT FROM A BUILDING INSPECTION.
I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR MR. WATSON.
UM, I DO KNOW OUR, UH, BUILDING INSPECTORS CANNOT ACCEPT PHOTOGRAPHS.
'CAUSE IT'S IMPOSSIBLE FOR THEM TO TELL THE CONTEXT OF THE PHOTO IN A LARGER, I EXPECT IT AS MUCH.
AND WE WOULD, IF WE NEED TO PUT THAT IN OUR CODE, UH, WE NEED ONCE AGAIN TO RELY ON BOTH OF YOU TO MAKE SURE THAT IT IS OR IS NOT IN THERE AND MAKE SURE THAT IT GETS IN THERE IN PROPER FASHION.
UM, I'M GONNA GO THROUGH THIS QUICKLY.
IS THAT IT? ANYONE ELSE SPEAKING ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR JPA? YES, MA'AM.
MS. NUNLEY, YOU'VE BEEN SWORN IN.
THE ONLY THING I'D LIKE TO ADD ABOUT THIS IS THAT BULKHEAD LAID OPEN FOR WEEKS AND WEEKS AND COULD HAVE BEEN, COULD HAVE BEEN INSPECTED DURING THAT TIME.
AND IT WASN'T WAS, SO THAT'S ALL I WANTED TO SAY.
WAS THERE AN INSPECTION CALLED FOR YES, THE ANSWER IS YES.
AND THE, UH, CONTRACTOR CALLED THAT.
WOULD THAT HAVE BEEN YOU? IT STAYED OPEN.
MR. JUNIOR, BRIT AND MY GRANDSON LUKE ASKED FOR AN INSPECTION.
HE WAS TOLD THAT THEY COULDN'T DO A INSPECTION BECAUSE THEY HAD NO BUILDING PERMIT.
THEN THE BOY ASKED HIM TO DO IT.
NOW WHAT'S HE SUPPOSED TO DO? DO IT WITHOUT, HE WAS TOLD BY MR. WATSON IN AN EMAIL I READ IT, THAT THEY COULDN'T INSPECTION BECAUSE HE DIDN'T HAVE A BUILDING PERMIT AND HE DIDN'T HAVE THE, AND BOY YOU DECIDED THAT YOU WERE RIGHT TO OPEN THEM ALL UP AND LET HIM LOOK AT 'EM.
SO WITHIN THE LAST WEEK IT DIDN'T, HE DIDN'T GET 'EM OPEN AND, BUT IT WAS OPEN FOR THEM TO INSPECT AND CALLED FOR WITHOUT THE BUILDING PERMIT.
BUT IT HAS NOT BEEN AVAILABLE, TOLD SINCE.
COULD NOT INSPECT WITHOUT BUILDING PERMIT.
HE STILL DOESN'T HAVE A BUILDING PERMIT, SIR.
WHY, WHY THEN WE'LL GIVE IT TO HIM BECAUSE IT'S MEETING.
I HAVE APPLIED FOR THE BUILDING PERMIT.
THE PERMIT HAS BEEN APPLIED FOR, AND IT WAS SUBMITTED, UH, A WEEK, AT LEAST A WEEK AGO, BUT PROBABLY TWO WEEKS AGO.
I DON'T HAVE THAT DATE RIGHT NOW.
AND YOU WERE, YOU, WERE YOU JUST NOW GOT INVOLVED IN THIS TWO WEEKS AGO, OR? NO, SIR.
I STARTED WITH THE AFTER FACT PERMITS AND THEY CALLED AND ASKED ME IF I WOULD HELP THEM WITH THE PERMITTING PROCESS.
UM, THE BULKHEAD HAD BEEN PARTIALLY BUILT OR THE BULKHEAD HAD BEEN BUILT.
IT JUST HADN'T BEEN COMPLETED.
UM, AND SO WHAT IT BOILS DOWN TO IS THE, UM, THE BULKHEAD OPENING WAS LEFT OPEN.
IT WAS DANGEROUS AT THAT POINT.
SOMEONE COULD FALL IN THE PIT.
AND, UH, SO WHILE IT WAS OPEN, THEY HAD A, A BUILDING PERMIT THAT HAD BEEN SUBMITTED.
UM, JUST BACKING UP A LITTLE BIT, GIVEN THE BOARD OVER, PLEASE, PLEASE DO WE NEED YOU TO BACK UP AN OVERVIEW OF THIS.
BEFORE THE BOARD TWO MEETINGS AGO ORDERED THAT THE DEAD MEN BE INSPECTED.
I DID ADVISE THAT OUR BUILDING INSPECTORS COULD NOT MAKE AN INSPECTION UNTIL A BUILDING PERMIT WAS ISSUED.
AND, UM, A BUILDING PERMIT HAS NOT BEEN ISSUED BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY THEY NEED A WETLANDS PERMIT FIRST BEFORE WE CAN ISSUE A BUILDING PERMIT.
IT'S CATCH 22, ISN'T IT? MM-HMM
SO AFTER THE BOARD MEETING, OBVIOUSLY ONCE THE BOARD ORDERED THAT THE DEAD MEN BE INSPECTED, THAT OBVIOUSLY CHANGED.
AND OUR INSPECTORS, UM, I TALKED WITH THEM AND THEY COULD DO AN INSPECTION ONCE THE BOARD ORDERED IT, AND WE WOULD'VE BEEN MORE THAN HAPPY TO DO IT ONCE.
WE WERE CALLED TO DO IT, OF COURSE, WHEN WE WERE CALLED TO DO IT.
AND, UH, MARTIN SULLIVAN WENT OUT AND DID THE INSPECTION.
AND THAT'S WHEN HE TOLD HIM, YOU NEED ALL FOUR.
UH, WITHIN TWO DAYS, I TOLD THEM, I SET UP A PLAN WHERE THEY WOULD EXPOSE ALL THE DEAD MEN FOR ALL FOUR PROJECTS.
MARTIN SULLIVAN WOULD GO OUT AND INSPECT 'EM.
AND THEN I NEVER HEARD ANYTHING BACK.
AND THEN I SENT THE EMAIL LAST FRIDAY.
I JUST LOOKED ON MY PHONE, I LOOKED AT THE EMAILS, JUST REMINDING THEM THIS IS WHAT
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WE, WHAT THE BOARD ORDERED, WHAT WE AGREED TO.THE RESPONSE I GOT FROM LUKE BRITTON WAS, THANK YOU.
WE WILL DO THIS ON TUESDAY AND WE WILL CALL IN AN INSPECTION.
AND I NEVER HEARD BACK FROM HIM.
UM, HE SAID SOMETHING ABOUT DOING MONDAY, DO A TUESDAY, BUT WE'LL CALL IN THE INSPECTION BEFORE THE MEETING.
AND I ASSUMED IT WOULD BE DONE.
UM, AND, UH, AGAIN, MY EMAIL LAST WEEK WAS SIMPLY A COURTESY TO REMIND THEM THAT THIS NEEDED TO BE DONE.
UM, WE HAD A VERY SPECIFIC CONVERSATION ABOUT HOW THIS WOULD BE DONE, AND IT JUST, THEY DIDN'T DO IT.
UH, MR. PAM, BUT PLEASE COME TO THE PODIUM.
AND THIS IS ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR JPA MAY I SWEAR YOU IN, SIR? YES, SIR.
DO YOU FIRMLY SWEAR YOU TELL THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH, NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH IN ALL MATTERS BEFORE THIS BOARD? I DO.
UH, LEE HAMID, DEPUTY COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR FOR COMMUNITY AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT.
MY PURVIEW IS OVER ENVIRONMENTAL PROGRAMS, BUILDING INSPECTIONS, PLANNING, ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, GIS, THE WHOLE WORKS.
SO, UH, I'M GONNA SPEAK TO GENERAL PROCESS AS IT PERTAINS TO THIS JPA AS WELL AS ALL OTHERS.
UM, IT WAS, IT WAS ESSENTIALLY MY DIRECTION TO THE STAFF THAT SENT THEM ON THE PATH OF, YOU KNOW, GOING AHEAD AND REQUIRING THE BUILDING PERMITS, DOING WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE FROM AN INSPECTION STANDPOINT.
AND WHEN I JUST WANTED TO EMPHASIZE IS THAT, UH, A BUILDING PERMIT FOR A, FOR A, UH, UH, FOR A BULKHEAD OR FOR RETAINING WALL ISN'T GONNA BE ANY DIFFERENT THAN A BUILDING PERMIT FOR A HOUSE WHERE YOU DON'T COVER ANYTHING UP FOR THE, YOU KNOW, FOR THE STUDS.
YOU DON'T PUT IN, YOU KNOW, INSULATION, YOU DON'T COVER ANY OF THAT UP BEFORE YOU GET AN INSPECTION.
AND INSPECTION OF DEAD MEN SHOULD BE NO DIFFERENT AND WILL BE NO DIFFERENT MOVING FORWARD.
SO AS JUST KIND OF A MESSAGE TO THOSE WHO ARE INVOLVED IN THIS PROCESS, PLEASE GET YOUR PERMITS FIRST.
GET, GET YOUR JPA FIRST BEFORE YOU EVEN, BEFORE YOU EVEN, UH, UH, YOU KNOW, DIG THAT FIRST SHOVEL OF DIRT SWING THAT FIRST HAMMER TO, UH, TO, TO BUILD THESE, UH, TO BUILD THESE BULKHEADS BECAUSE THIS IS THE WAY IT'S GONNA BE.
NOW, IF, IF THESE AGENTS AND CONTRACTORS ARE GONNA COMPLICATE THINGS BY, YOU KNOW, BY, UH, BY BUILDING FIRST AND THEN GETTING A PERMIT LATER, IT'S REALLY GOING TO, UH, IT'S REALLY GONNA BE A LONG HAUL FOR THE PROPERTY OWNER, FOR EVERYBODY INVOLVED.
BUT WHAT I JUST WANTED TO MENTION FROM, FROM, FROM MY STANDPOINT IS THAT FROM, IN TERMS OF PROCESS, THIS SHOULDN'T BE TREATED ANY DIFFERENTLY THAN ANY OTHER BUILDING PERMIT.
YOU DON'T COVER ANYTHING UP UNTIL IT'S BEEN INSPECTED.
AND WE DON'T, AND WE DON'T GO OUT AND INSPECT UNTIL WE HAVE AN APPLICATION FOR A BUILDING PERMIT.
AND WE ALL ARE AWARE, UM, AND I'LL GIVE YOU A LITTLE PERSONAL BACKGROUND.
WE HAD JUST A COUPLE OF ROOMS PUT ON TWO YEARS AGO AND, UH, THEY DIDN'T SWING ONE HAMMER, UH, BEFORE THE, UH, GENTLEMAN CAME AND INSPECTED AND THEN THEY GOT TO A CERTAIN POINT AND THEY WERE SEVEN OR EIGHT OR NINE DIFFERENT TIMES THAT THEY HAD TO CALL FOR INSPECTION AND THEY DIDN'T WORK UNTIL THEY GOT THERE.
AND EVEN, UH, THE ELECTRICAL WIRING GOING DOWN THROUGH THE FLOOR, IT WASN'T FOAMED IN ONE PLACE AND THAT WAS IT UNTIL YOU FOAM IT.
SO IF THEY'D PUT ON THE WALLBOARD AND THEY'D BEEN CAUGHT, TAKE THE WALLBOARD OFF.
SO I AGREE WITH YOU AND THANK YOU FOR FILLING US IN ON THAT.
UM, WHAT WE'RE GONNA DO QUICKLY IS, UM, CLOSE THE FLOOR, OPEN THE FLOOR TO PUBLIC COMMENT.
UH, AND THAT'S ANYBODY THAT HASN'T SPOKEN THAT WOULD LIKE TO SAY ANYTHING AT ALL ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR JPA.
IF NOT, WE'RE GONNA CLOSE THE FLOOR AND WE'RE GONNA IT TO BOARD DISCUSSION.
SO, UH, I'D LIKE TO START ON THIS END WITH MR. BADGER.
I THINK IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, THESE ARE SOME QUESTIONS AND FACTS THAT I'VE, THAT I'VE COME UP WITH.
UH, THE ORIGINAL, THE NEW BULKHEAD WAS BUILT WITHOUT A JPA.
SO THIS MAKES THIS AN AFTER THE FACT JOINT PERMIT APPLICATION.
UH, WAS THE QUESTIONS I HAVE IS, WAS THE ORIGINAL BULKHEAD FUNCTIONAL WENT BEFORE THE NEW BULKHEAD WAS BUILT.
NUMBER TWO WAS THE WATER, UH, AT MEAN LOW TIDE ON THE ORIGINAL BULKHEAD, WHICH I UNDERSTAND.
YEAH, LET'S BACK UP, GET YOUR QUESTIONS ANSWERED BECAUSE WE'LL FORGET, REPEAT THE FIRST QUESTION.
[00:30:01]
ORIGINAL BULKHEAD FUNCTIONAL PRIOR TO THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE NEW ONE? UM, I'M THE, YES SIR.BUT I'M GONNA ASK, UH, MR. IT LOOKS FUNCTIONAL ON THIS BULKHEAD, BUT I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE SHEATHING LOOKED LIKE.
WE GOT A PICTURE, BUT I'D LIKE TO ASK MR. SENIOR, UH, YOU TO ANSWER THE QUESTION.
THE NEXT QUESTION IS, WAS THE ORIGINAL BULKHEAD CHANNEL WORD OF MEAN LOW WATER, MEANING THAT THE LOW WATERMARK WAS ON THE BULKHEAD AND THERE WAS NO EXPOSED SAND WETLANDS IN FRONT OF IT? CHANNEL? WORD OF IT.
SO THE, SO WITH THAT, IF WE ALL AGREE THAT THAT IS THE CASE, THE ORIGINAL BULK CODE WAS CHANNEL ORDER MEAN LOW WATER AND THE PERMIT IS NOT REQUIRED FROM THE VMR, I MEAN FROM, UM, THE MARINE REEF, EXCUSE ME, THE WETLANDS BOARD, BECAUSE IT'S NOT IN OUR JURISDICTION.
I WOULD JUST, IF I COULD, UM, YES, PLEASE DO.
MY UNDERSTANDING IS MR. RAYMOND BRITTEN DIDN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE CONSTRUCTION OF THIS BULKHEAD.
SO I, I I MEAN HE MAY KNOW HISTORICALLY, BUT HE MAY NOT BE THE PERSON TO PARTICULARLY ASK ABOUT THIS SITUATION.
UM, THEY HAVE MY EQUIPMENT THERE, THAT'S WHY I'LL REPLY AND LOOK AT YES, SIR.
AND WE APPRECIATE YOUR OPINION AND I TAKE IT AS GOSPEL 'CAUSE YOU'VE BEEN THERE DOING IT FOR A HUNDRED YEARS, UH, AND AND THERE'S NO, THERE'S NO RETURN WALLS THAT JUST WOULD GO BACK IN.
SO THAT'S THE RETURN WALLS ARE NOT EVEN, UH, AN ISSUE HERE.
AND THE CONTRACTOR, WELL, I WOULD JUST SAY I WAS NOT AWARE THAT MR. BRITTON HAD BEEN TO THE SITE, BUT NOW THAT I UNDERSTAND HIS EQUIPMENT WAS THERE, HE MAY HAVE OBSERVED IT.
AND, AND WE RELY ON HIS OPINION.
BUT YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT.
HE WASN'T A CONTRACTOR, HE JUST KNOWS WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT.
AND HE WAS THERE AND THAT IF THAT IS GOOD ENOUGH FOR YOU, WE'LL TAKE IT AS GOSPEL.
UH, MR. MR. GICK MAY, MAY NO MORE.
ALRIGHT, LET'S MOVE AROUND THE ROOM.
AND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, DON'T, DON'T EVEN NEED A PERMIT.
NOT FROM, NOT FROM THE WETLANDS BOARD.
SO THEN MY, WHAT I WAS GONNA SAY IS, IS HE IS MUTE BECAUSE LIKE I SAID, I WAS GONNA SAY IT'S NOT A CATCH 22 IS IF WE APPROVE IT, WHICH DON'T, MR. HANKS SAYS THAT THEY DON'T NO PERMIT REQUIRED.
MEAN IF WE HAD TO DO ONE BECAUSE WE CAN APPROVE IT WITH THE TIEBACKS BEING EXPOSED AFTER THEY GET A PERMIT, WHICH TAKES NO TIME.
AND, UH, I UNDERSTAND WHAT MR.
YOU CAN'T GET INSPECTIONS IF YOU DON'T HAVE A PERMIT.
BUT WHAT I'M SAYING IS, BUT DON'T, BUT WE'RE DOING BOTH.
WE'RE NOT, WE'RE REQUIRING PERMITS, BUT SAYING YOU CAN'T GET 'EM BECAUSE YOU DON'T HAVE A PERMIT, BUT YOU GET ASK THEM ANYWAY.
SO IT'S, IT'S ROUGH ON EVERYTHING AND EVERYBODY, BUT IF, IF MR. UH, YEAH.
UH, MY NEXT DOOR NEIGHBOR HERE SAYS
THIS IS, THIS IS REALLY ALL YOU.
UM, BUT LIKE I SAID, BUT IT'S NOT A CATCH POINT BETWEEN IF WE HAD TO HAVE A PERMIT AFTER WE, IF WE APPROVE IT, GET THE PERMIT, DIG OUT, TIE BACK, WE HAVE INSPECTION.
BUT LIKE I SAID, I'M ASKING, I'M GONNA ASK, UH, MR. LEE TOO.
DO, DO WE USUALLY INSPECT TIEBACKS.
IF, IF THEY GET A PERMIT FOR A DOCK, THEY USUALLY COME INSPECT THEM.
THEY STARTED DOING IT IN THE LAST TWO OR THREE YEARS.
THAT'S A GOOD, THAT'S A GOOD THING TO LEAVE A REMOTE.
IT'S NO PROBLEM WHEN YOU BUILDING A BULKHEAD TO LEAVE A REMOTE AND THE COUNTY WILL COME OUT.
GENERALLY THE NEXT DAY AND YOU CAN COVER 'EM UP AND THEY GET DONE THIS DAY MOST OF THE TIME AND YOU CAN JUST COVER 'EM UP THE DAY OPEN.
BUT WHAT MR. HANKY IS SAYING THAT IT'S, IT'S, UH, LIKE I SAID, IT'S ON MIAMI CANAL, IT'S NOT C AND UM, ONE TWO FOOT CHANNEL.
THEY DO COME, IF HE CALLS TODAY FOR A TIEBACK INSPECTION, HE'LL BE THERE TOMORROW.
HOWEVER, HOWEVER, EVEN THOUGH HE IS NOTICED, NO, DON'T NEED A PERMIT FROM US, STILL NEED A PERMIT FROM THE COUNTY.
SO WHEN THEY, WHEN YOU APPLY FOR THE BUILDING PERMIT, UH, MR. HANKS SAID THEY DON'T NEED ONE FROM US, BUT THEY STILL HAVE ASHLEY.
UH, A LOT OF TIMES THEY SAY, DO YOU WANT ME TO BUILD THE PERMIT STILL BACK, GET THE COUNTY PERMIT? THAT'S, THAT'S A DEFINITE.
STILL GOTTA GET THE COUNTY PERMIT TO BUILD IT.
SO LOOK, THIS, THIS JUST STARTED TWO OR THREE YEARS AGO.
THAT'S A GOOD, THAT'S A GOOD, I AGREE WITH THAT'S A, THAT'S A GOOD THING.
THIS IS OUT OF OUR, WHAT I'M, WHAT I'M SAYING RIGHT NOW IS OUT OF OUR JURISDICTION, BUT I'M SAYING TO, TO HOPEFULLY GUIDE THE, THE COUNTY IS AFTER THEY GIVE YOU THE BUILDING PERMIT, AFTER THEY GIVE YOU THE BUILDING PERMIT, MATTER OF FACT, THEN YOU CAN GO THERE WITH YOUR MINI EXCAVATOR AND EXPOSE TIEBACKS AND, AND, AND THEY AND THE COUNTY INSPECTOR, INSPECTOR, IF THERE'S ANYTHING TO BE DONE, THEN DONE THEN.
BUT AFTER THE BUILDING COORDIN IS DONE FROM THE COUNTY, UH, IT'S NONE REQUIRED FROM US WHAT MR.
[00:35:01]
HANKS SAYING.HE, HE SHOULD KNOW
ALRIGHT, SIR, UH, LET'S LET MR. PAMED, UH, GIVE US SOME HIS, HIS RENDITION OF THIS.
LEE, PAM, A DEPUTY COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR, COMMUNITY ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT.
UH, WE JUST STARTED INSPECTING DEAD MEN OR TIEBACKS WITHIN THE PAST TWO YEARS.
UM, UH, THAT CAME ABOUT AGAIN, DIRECTION THAT I HAD PROVIDED TO THE STAFF, BUT THEN ALSO WE DO NEED TO TREAT BULK HEADS THE SAME AS RETAINING WALLS, THE SAME AS AS ANY OTHER STRUCTURAL BUILDING PERMIT.
UH, THE, THE INTERPRETATION THERE IS THAT A BULKHEAD IS NO DIFFERENT THAN A RETAINING WALL, WHICH REQUIRES A BUILDING PERMIT.
SO, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE, THEY ARE CONSTRUCTED THE, PRETTY MUCH THE SAME WAY.
YOU KNOW, YOU'VE GOT VERTICAL COMPONENTS AND THEN YOU'VE GOT, UH, YOU KNOW, YOU'VE GOT, UH, UH, PIERS THAT HOLD THE, THE, UH, THE HORIZONTAL BOARDS.
AND THEN OF COURSE YOU'VE GOT THE, UH, THE HORIZONTAL TIEBACKS, UH, THAT IS NO DIFFERENT CONSTRUCTION THAN A REGULAR RETAINING WALL.
THE FORCES THAT ACT ON A BULKHEAD ARE, ARE THE, ARE ARE DIFFERENT, OF COURSE YOU'VE GOT THE WHOLE, UH, YOU HAVE THE WHOLE, UH, UH, WAVE ACTION AND, AND THE TITLE FORCE IS THERE, BUT IT'S STILL A STRUCTURE THAT IS, UH, THAT IS SUBJECT TO THE BUILDING CODE.
SO IN, IN ORDER FOR THE STAFF TO, UH, GET OUT THERE AND TO UNDERSTAND WHAT IT IS THAT THEY'RE LOOKING AT, THEY'VE GOTTA HAVE PLANS FIRST.
SO YES, THEY'RE PLAN, THEY'RE, THEY'RE, THEY'RE REVIEWING PLANS, BUT THEN THEY'RE ALSO INSPECTING WHAT, UH, YOU KNOW, WHAT HAS BEEN INSTALLED UP TO THAT POINT.
SO IF IT'S A DEAD MAN INSPECTION, OR FOR INSTANCE IN A HOUSE, IF IT'S AN INSULATION INSPECTION OR IF IT'S A, YOU KNOW, IF IT'S A FRAMING INSPECTION, YOU DON'T COVER ANY OF THAT UP BEFORE THE INSPECTION HAS ACTUALLY TAKEN PLACE.
BUT BOTTOM LINE HERE IS A BULKHEAD IS A STRUCTURE THAT IS SUBJECT TO THE BUILDING CODE AND THEREFORE WE PROCESS THAT THE WAY ANY OTHER BUILDING PERMIT WE RECEIVE.
WE WOULDN'T BE HERE ADDRESSING THIS PARTICULAR APPLICATION IF THEY'D, UH, PUT A JPA IN RIGHT OFF IN THE BEGINNING.
'CAUSE IT WOULD'VE BEEN MOST LIKELY NO PERMIT REQUIRED FROM THE WETLANDS BOARD.
DON'T KNOW ABOUT THE CORE, BUT THE REASON WE'RE HERE IS 'CAUSE IT'S AFTER THE FACT AND IT WAS CONFUSING MM-HMM
AND THAT IS A REAL PROBLEM MOVING FORWARD.
UM, IT'S, IT'S GOING TO BE A PROBLEM EVERY TIME IT HAPPENS.
AND EVERY, UH, I THOUGHT ABOUT THIS LAST NIGHT, UM, WITH IT W CONSIDERING THE FACT THAT WE WOULDN'T BE HERE IF THEY GOT A JPA, UH, JUST RUNS TIME OFF THE CLOCK FOR US AND, UH, AND EVERYONE ELSE.
SO WE NEED TO STEP UP AND POSSIBLY SOME PENALTIES TIMING, UH, MOVE IT INTO MONTHS AHEAD.
SOMETHING HAS GOTTA HAPPEN THAT WILL, UH, FORCE EVERYONE TO GO THROUGH THE STEPS AND GET THEIR JPA AS EVERYONE ELSE DOES.
A, UH, A DECISION TO BUILD A BULKHEAD IS NOT ONE THAT I IMAGINE IS TAKEN LIGHTLY BY A PROPERTY OWNER.
AND THAT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT YOU JUST DECIDE A WEEK BEFORE, YOU KNOW, THEY KNOW WELL IN ADVANCE THAT THEY WANT A BULKHEAD THAT THEY'RE GETTING READY TO DO ONE.
ALL I ASK FOR THE AGENTS, FOR THE CONTRACTORS, HOMEOWNERS REAL ESTATE AGENTS, WHOEVER'S INVOLVED IN THIS, IS TO DO A LITTLE BIT OF DUE DILIGENCE.
AND THEN, BECAUSE THE STAFF DOESN'T WANT ANY SURPRISES EITHER.
I JUST WANNA MAKE THAT CLEAR THAT WE'RE NOT HERE TO HAMSTRING ANYBODY IN TERMS OF PROCESS.
WE WANT THEM TO IMPROVE THEIR PROPERTIES, UH, IMPROVEMENTS TO PROPERTIES, UH, UH, UH, ELEVATE PROPERTY VALUES, WHICH IS GENERALLY GOOD FOR THE COUNTY.
BUT WE DO WANT TO PUT FORTH A PROCESS THAT IS THOROUGH, THAT IS FAIR AND THAT WILL REDUCE THE AMOUNT OF SURPRISES.
BECAUSE THIS CLEARLY WE DON'T, AND AND I DON'T THINK THIS IS GONNA BE THE ONLY ONE THAT YOU'RE GONNA BE HEARING TODAY IN THIS SITUATION, BUT AGAIN, WE WANNA MAKE SURE THAT, UH, THINGS DO COMPLY WITH CODE AND THAT THEY ARE SAFE.
SO, UH, THE, THE OTHER PART OF THAT TOO IS DOING BETTER OUTREACH.
SO WE DO HAVE PLANS TO HOLD OTHER PUBLIC OUTREACH SESSIONS THAT, UH, THAT PERTAIN TO, YOU KNOW, SPECIFICALLY TO BULKHEADS AND TO PROCESSES THAT, UH, UH, THAT INVOLVE THE WETLANDS BOARD BECAUSE IT'S A ROUTINE THING THAT HAPPENS MONTH AFTER MONTH THAT, YOU KNOW, FOLKS COME BEFORE YOU WITH JPA.
THEY MIGHT HAVE QUESTIONS ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT A BOAT LIFT REQUIRES A BUILDING PERMIT OR A BULKHEAD REQUIRES A BUILDING PERMIT.
THE ANSWER THERE TO BOTH OF THEM IS YES, THEY DO REQUIRE BUILDING PERMITS,
[00:40:01]
BUT WE WANT TO EXPLAIN THAT PROCESS AS WELL.SO, UH, SO SOME OUTREACH IS DEFINITELY, IS DEFINITELY NECESSARY.
BUT I THINK THAT FOR SOMEONE TO COME IN AND DO DUE DILIGENCE, EVEN IF IT'S JUST 15, 30 MINUTES WITH THE STAFF TO SAY, HEY, WHAT DO I NEED TO DO IN ORDER TO GET THIS BULKHEAD THROUGH WITH IN, IN, IN THE MOST EFFICIENT WAY POSSIBLE.
UH, UH, AGAIN, WE DON'T WANT TO, WE DON'T LIKE SURPRISES EITHER, SO WE WANT TO TRY TO, WE WANT TO INCREASE THE, UH, THE PREDICTABILITY OF THESE, BUT WHEN THEY COME IN AFTER THE FACT, IT'S, IT'S NOT POSSIBLE AT THAT POINT BECAUSE WE DON'T KNOW WHAT IT IS THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT AFTER THE FACT IF IT'S ALREADY BEEN COVERED UP.
SO YOU'RE SUGGESTING THAT, UH, AS WE ALL KNOW IN THIS ROOM, SHOULD KNOW IT'S THE CONTRACTORS' DUE DILIGENCE TO COME TO STAFF AND ASK THESE QUESTIONS, NOT OUR OUTREACH PROGRAM TO SAY, LET ME TAKE YOU BY THE HAND AND RUN.
IT'S, IT, IT, IT WOULD BE A COMBINATION OF BOTH.
YOU KNOW, WE, WE CERTAINLY WANT TO BE TRANSPARENT WITH OUR PROCESSES.
IT SHOULD NOT BE A MYSTERY TO ANYBODY, BUT WE'VE GOT CONTRACTORS IN THE ROOM WHO KNOW HOW TO DO BUILDING PERMITS AND YOU DON'T GET AN INSPECTION WITHOUT A BUILDING PERMIT.
THAT'S, THAT'S, THAT'S TRUE IN MACK AS IT IS IN FAIRFAX OR, OR ROANOKE.
MR. WARD, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, COMMENTS, ANSWER? UH, I THINK IT HASN'T BEEN STATED, IT WAS INDICATED, BUT IF WE, IF IT HAD COME BEFORE COUNTY IN TIME, NONE OF THIS WILL BE BE HERE.
AND IT, UH, TAKES A LOT OF TIME AWAY FROM OTHER THINGS THAT NEEDED TO BE DONE AND, UH, YOUR COMMENTS ALONG THOSE LINES OF WHAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN.
I'M NOT SURE, UH, THERE SHOULD BE, I THINK SOME KIND OF DETERRENT SO IT DOESN'T HAPPEN AGAIN BECAUSE ACTUALLY, AND WE'RE WORKING ON THAT, GONNA LEAN ON THESE TWO PEOPLE TO, UH, HAVE SOME KIND OF DETERRENT AS YOU, SO WELL PUT.
BUT SOMETHING NEEDS TO HAPPEN.
I THINK EVERY CONTRACTOR KNOWS THAT IT NEEDS TO HAPPEN AND IF IT WAS, AS MR. BADGER INDICATED, WE WOULDN'T BE HERE IN THE FIRST PLACE.
ALRIGHT, SIR, ANYTHING ELSE? NO, THAT'S IT.
MR. ICK, THIS IS IN YOUR BACKYARD, SIR.
I HOPE I CAN ADD SOME CLARIFICATION AND CLARITY TO THE SITUATION.
I'D LIKE TO GET A LITTLE BOOKKEEPING OUTTA THE WAY FIRST, AS YOU KNOW, MY DISCLOSURE, I'M A MEMBER OF CAPTAIN'S COVE, HOA, BUT I HAVE NO POSITION OF AUTHORITY OF RESPONSIBILITY WITH CAPTAIN'S COVE GOLF AND YACHT CLUB INC.
UH, THE TYPICAL SITUATION YOU HAVE IN CAPTAIN'S COVE, AND I GUESS EVERYWHERE IN REGARDS TO MANMADE CANALS AND BULKHEADS, IS THAT ANY REPAIR OR MODIFICATION IS USUALLY TAKEN CARE OF BY THE US ARMY CORPS ENGINEERS.
TYPICALLY THE WETLANDS BOARD DOES NOT GET INVOLVED IN IT, UH, UNLESS THERE'S SOME DEGRADATION ON THE BACKSIDE WHERE THERE MIGHT BE A HOLE AND THERE MIGHT BE GO BELOW MEAN HIGH WATER AND THERE'S SOME NON VEGITATIVE WETLANDS.
THAT'S WHERE WE ACTUALLY MIGHT HEAR TO PERMIT.
TYPICALLY, WE DO NOT HEAR TO PERMIT FOR THIS TYPE OF REPAIR OR MODIFICATION OF BULKHEAD WHEN THE BULKHEADS IS STILL IN RELATIVELY GOOD CONDITION, WHICH I THINK WE ALL AGREE THAT THAT'S, THAT'S THE SITUATION AS SUCH.
I WANTED TO CHECK WITH THE ARMY CORPS ENGINEERS.
I SPOKE TO THE ENVIRONMENTAL SCIENTIST INVOLVED ROWAN SMIT, AND BASICALLY TO MAKE A LONG STORY SHORT, ESSENTIALLY HE IS SATISFIED WITH EVERYTHING, EVEN THOUGH IT IS AN AFTER THE FACT PERMIT.
AND ESSENTIALLY IT'S LEFT TO US TO SORT OF FINALLY COME UP WITH SOME SORT OF DECISION IN REGARDS HOW TO PROCEED IN THAT REGARD.
UH, AT, AT THIS STAGE, I, I THINK MAYBE I'D LIKE TO GET SOME MORE, WELL, I'D LIKE TO GO THROUGH SOME MINOR ISSUES WITH THE PERMIT.
MAYBE I MIGHT NEED TO TALK TO MS. NUNLEY ABOUT THIS IF YOU CAN COME ON UP.
UH, JUST GOING THROUGH SOME OTHER BOOKKEEPING ON IT.
I, EVEN THOUGH IT'S NOT OUR JURISDICTION, I NOTICED A SUB AQUEOUS BOTTOM FOR THIS PERMIT.
IT INDICATED I BELIEVE 1200 SQUARE FEET.
DOES THAT, UH, RING A BELL? IT WAS 60 FOOT, SO, SO IT'D BE 120.
YES, I THINK IT WAS MISTAKE IF THAT'S THE CASE.
SO WE BASICALLY NEED TO MAKE THAT CORRECTION.
I HOPE SOMEONE'S GONNA KEEP A TRACK OF ME ON ALL THIS.
THANK YOU FOR POINTING THAT OUT.
THEN THE OTHER THING TOO IS THAT I NOTICED AGAIN, A LITTLE BOOKKEEPING, UH, REVISION ONE OR REVISION TWO.
I THINK IT'S REVISION TWO FOR THIS ONE.
IT DIDN'T HAVE THE JPA NUMBER INDICATED, SO I'D LIKE TO HAVE THAT CHANGED TOO AS WELL.
MAKE SURE THAT'S PUT IN THERE.
[00:45:01]
AGAIN, GOING BACK TO MR. BADGER'S POINT HERE.UH, THIS SHOULD NOT AS BEST WE CAN TYPICALLY NOT HEARD BY THE WETLANDS BOARD, BUT THE FACT THAT THERE IS NO INSPECTION BY OUR STAFF OR VMRC, WE TRULY DO NOT KNOW IF THERE WAS ANY VEGETATED OR NON VEGETATED WETLANDS THERE.
SO WE'RE AIRING ON THE SIDE OF CAUTION HERE TO HEAR IT AND SEE IF WE CAN GET SOME INFORMATION REGARDS TO THIS.
UH, WE ARE LOOKING FOR PHOTOGRAPHS.
WE CAN'T REALLY FIND ANY TIMELY PHOTOGRAPHS.
SO THAT IS WHY THIS BOARD IS HEARING THIS AT THE MOMENT IN REGARDS OF THE SITUATION, UH, SHOULD BE BEFORE US.
THE ANSWER'S PROBABLY NOT, BUT AS I SAID, WE ERRED ON THE SIDE OF CAUTION TO MAKE SURE IT'S HEARD THAT EVERYONE'S SATISFIED WITH THIS PARTICULAR PERMIT.
UM, I DO AGREE WITH MR. WARD THAT OBVIOUSLY, UH, IF THIS BECOMES A STANDARD OF THE AFTER THE FACT, UH, PERMITS AND THAT MEANS THAT SOMEONE CAN JUST DO SOMETHING TO THEIR PROPERTY.
I'M NOT IN, IN, UH, INSINUATING THAT MR. ROSATI OR ANYONE DID ANYTHING, BUT BASICALLY YOU CAN GO AND CHANGE THE, UH, VEGETATIVE, NON VEGETATED WETLANDS AND, AND NO ONE WOULD KNOW AND YOU CAN GO FORWARD WITH YOUR PERMIT AFTER THE FACT.
WE WANT TO HAVE, JUST IN THE CASE, MR.
SO I'M LEANING TOWARD HER AND IT GETS DIFFICULT HERE BECAUSE, UH, MR. LUKE BRITT'S NOT HERE, AND I DON'T KNOW HOW TO PROCEED IN REGARDS TO DISCUSSING THIS THAT I BELIEVE SOME CONDITIONAL FINE OR SOMETHING MIGHT BE NEEDED TO DEMONSTRATE AS A DETERRENT FOR THIS PARTICULAR SORT OF JPA.
UM, I'M NOT QUITE SURE AT THIS TIME.
MAYBE, UH, WE CAN ASK MR. WATSON IF THERE'S ANYTHING THAT, OH, I GUESS ONE THING I'M CURIOUS ABOUT WHAT YOU INDICATED WE STILL NEED TO GET THE DEAD MEN INSPECTED.
UM, SO AS PART, ONCE THE BUILDING PERMIT IS ISSUED, THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT WILL REQUIRE INSPECTION OF ALL THE DEAD MEN.
SO THEY WILL BE INSPECTED AND BEFORE THE BOARD ORDERED THEM TO BE INSPECTED, OF COURSE THEY WEREN'T GONNA INSPECT THEM UNTIL AFTER THE BUILDING PERMIT AND THEY COULD NOT INSPECT THEM UNTIL AFTER THE BUILDING PERMIT WAS ISSUED.
ONCE THE BOARD ORDERED IT TO BE DONE, THE PLAN WAS FOR THEM TO INSPECT IT PURSUANT TO THE BOARD'S ORDER, THEN THEY WOULD HAVE TO BE COVERED UP AND REINSPECTED AND THE BUILDING OFFICIAL, UH, JACOB YEAGER LOOKED INTO THAT AND HIS CONCLUSION AFTER LOOKING AT WHAT THE BUILDING CODE REQUIRED OF HIM WAS THAT A, AN INSPECTION BEFORE THE BUILDING PERMIT WAS ISSUED WOULD BE INVALID UNDER THE BUILDING CODE EXPLICITLY SUCH THAT THE BOARD'S INSPECTION WOULD NOT BE, BE ABLE TO BE USED FOR HIS INSPECTION.
UM, AND, UH, SO, UH, THEY WILL BE INSPECTED BY THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT IS THE SHORT ANSWER.
BUT I, BUT I, BUT I WANTED TO CLARIFY, UM, KIND OF THE INSPECTION ISSUE BECAUSE IT IS A LITTLE CONFUSING, UM, AS TO WHAT WE WERE, UH, WHAT THE PLAN WAS AND, AND, AND WHAT THIS BOARD REQUIRED VERSUS WHAT THE BUILDING CODE REQUIRED.
SO THE BOTTOM LINE I'D LIKE TO ASK, DO YOU CONSIDER PEOPLE DELINQUENT IN TERMS OF DOING THAT INSPECTION OR YOU JUST THINK IT'S A SITUATION THAT THE PERMIT IS NEEDED FIRST TO DO THAT? WELL, THEY'RE DELINQUENT AS TO WHAT THIS BOARD ORDERED EXPLICITLY TWO MEETINGS AGO.
UH, UM, BUT AS FAR AS OUR BUILDING DEPARTMENT IS CONCERNED, THEY WOULD NOT DO THEIR INSPECTION, THE BUILDING CODE INSPECTION UNTIL AFTER THE BUILDING PERMIT IS ISSUED, WHICH CANNOT BE ISSUED UNTIL AFTER THIS BOARD MAKES ITS DETERMINATION ON THE JPA.
SO THE, SO THE, SO THEY WILL BE INSPECTED AS PART OF THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT'S RESPONSIBILITIES.
THEY JUST WERE NOT INSPECTED AS THIS BOARD ORDERED BEFORE THIS HEARING.
SO WE HAVE A SITUATION HERE WHERE WE HAVE A NEW CONTRACTOR.
SO IF I DIRECT SOMETHING TOWARDS THE OLD CONTRACT, I DON'T THINK IT, DOES IT HAVE ANY FIRM GROUND TO STANDING? I, I WILL, I WOULD JUST OBSERVE THAT, UH, THE COMPLAINT WAS MADE.
UM, MR. BROWN DID CONTACT ME THE DAY AFTER THE COMPLAINT WAS MADE.
I BELIEVE THE COMPLAINT WAS MADE ABOUT SIX O'CLOCK IN THE EVENING.
HE CONTACTED ME THE NEXT MORNING THAT HE WAS AWARE THAT THE COMPLAINT WAS MADE.
AND HE SAID THAT HE HAD PUT IN THESE BULKHEADS, UM, AND THERE WAS SOME TALK THAT HE WAS WORKING WITH LUKE BRITTON.
I WAS AWARE AT THE TIME THAT LUKE BRITTON WAS INCARCERATED AND I BELIEVE HAD BEEN INCARCERATED FOR
[00:50:01]
AT LEAST A FEW WEEKS.UM, I KNOW HE IS NOT INCARCERATED NOW.
I KNOW HE HAS BEEN, UM, CORRESPONDING WITH ME ABOUT THIS AND I DO NOT KNOW THE SPECIFICS OF HIS, UH, PARTNERSHIP WITH MR. BROWN OR WITH MR. RAYMOND BRITTON.
SO IT IS UNCLEAR TO ME EXACTLY OTHER THAN JEFF BROWN, WHO, WHO ELSE HAS RESPONSIBILITY FOR THIS.
AND I WOULD, UH, SAY THAT IF THE BOARD, UM, YOU KNOW, MR. BROWN WAS UPFRONT WITH ME.
UM, AND I DO NOT KNOW WHO ELSE WAS INVOLVED DOING IT OTHER THAN WHAT HE HAS TOLD ME.
I I DO KNOW THAT IF THE BOARD WAS TO FIND THE HOMEOWNER, THAT IT CERTAINLY COULD BE A PASS THROUGH SITUATION.
OF COURSE THAT'S UP TO MR. BROWN AND THE HOMEOWNER.
BUT, UM, IT IS, YOU KNOW, NOW MR. RAYMOND BRITTON HAS AGREED TO, UH, KIND OF OVERSEE THIS, BUT OF COURSE I WOULD NOT, I DON'T HAVE ANY INFORMATION THAT HE WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY OF THE VIOLATIONS.
AND I, I DON'T WANT TO PUT THAT HE GETS TO A SITUATION WHERE GOING BACK TO WHAT MR. WARD, WE NEED TO HAVE SOME DETER.
WE CAN'T HAVE THIS CONTINUING THIS WAY.
THE QUESTION IS WHO DO WE DIRECT THE CONDITIONAL FINE TO? AND THAT'S WHAT THE PROBLEM IS THAT I HAVE HERE.
I MY PUT IN OUR DISCUSSION IN TERMS OF HOW WE MIGHT PROCEED.
WELL, UH, I TYP IF I MAY JUST, YOU GIMME, JUST CONTINUE FOR A MOMENT.
UH, SO TYPICALLY IT'S BEEN THE WETLANDS BOARD POLICY IS THAT WE NEVER F WE TYPICALLY DO NOT FIND ANYONE BECAUSE WE'RE MORE INTERESTED IN REPAIRING THE WETLANDS THAT MIGHT HAVE BEEN DAMAGED.
SO WE TYPICALLY WANT THE PERSON WHO'S INVOLVED TO USE THEIR FUNDS TO REPAIR THE DAMAGE THAT MIGHT HAVE INCURRED TO VEGETATE AREA AND THE IDEA THAT THAT WOULD BE ENOUGH IN TERMS OF WHAT THEY WOULD DO.
THEY WOULD USE THEIR FUNDS TO DO THAT.
THERE'D BE NO FINE, THIS IS A UNIQUE SITUATION BECAUSE IT SEEMS LIKE IT'S A DONE DEAL AND THERE'S NOTHING THERE TO DO.
SO YOU JUST CAN'T HAVE SOMEONE JUST DO AN AFTER THE FACT PERMIT AGAIN AND JUST WALK AWAY.
BUT I, MY PROBLEM IS I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHO TO DIRECT THIS CONDITIONAL FINE TUNE AT THIS POINT.
FIRST OF ALL, IF YOU DON'T MIND, THANK YOU, SIR.
UM, I WAS UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT MR. LUKE BRITTON WAS GONNA BE HERE.
ANY WORD FROM HIM? WHY? HE'S NOT, WHY I I HAVE NOT, YOU HAVE NOT HEARD FROM HIM.
WELL, I THINK IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, SINCE IT'S NOT IN OUR JURISDICTION, WE CANNOT PUT A CIVIL PENALTY OR A CIVIL CHARGE ON THIS, UH, THIS JOINT PERMIT APPLICATION.
WE HAVE NO INVOLVEMENT IN IT, SO IT'D BE VERY DIFFICULT FOR US TO PUT A PENALTY ON SOMETHING THAT WE'RE NOT PERMITTING IN THIS CASE.
UH, IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, UH, WHO DOES IT FALL TO? UM, IT MAY FALL TO THE AKIMA COUNTY BUILDING AND ZONING IF THEY'VE GOT ANY AUTHORITY TO PENALIZE.
AGAIN, IT'S OUTSIDE OF OUR JURISDICTION, SO THEREFORE, IF IT'S OUTSIDE OF OUR JURISDICTION AND ALWAYS WAS, AND IF THEY'D GOTTEN A JPA, WE WOULDN'T BE HERE.
WELL, I I SEE THIS AS A VERY DANGEROUS SITUATION, OBVIOUSLY, BECAUSE IF SOMEONE DID SOMETHING TO PERTURB THEIR LAND IN THE BACK AND THEY, THERE'S NO ONE WHO INSPECTED IT FIRST, THEN THIS COULD BE A STANDARD PRACTICE.
I'M NOT SURE WHAT THE BEST WAY TO DO WHAT MR. WARD SAID IN TERMS OF SOME SORT OF DETERRENT, BUT OBVIOUSLY YOU HAVE THE BOOK IN FRONT OF YOU AND IT'S VERY CLEAR.
UH, I DON'T KNOW WHAT, HOW TO PROCEED AT THIS POINT.
WHAT'S THE BEST WAY TO, TO DO THIS? LEE MAY HAVE SOME INFORMATION ABOUT THE ZONING, IF THEY'VE GOT ANY CIVIL PENALTIES OR MR. PAM, DO YOU MIND ONE MORE TIME? UH, I DO, I I DO HAVE A JURISDICTION.
UM, IS, IS IT, I I I THINK HANK UH, MR. BADGER IS DEAD ON IT, UH, SINCE IT WAS OUTSIDE OF OUR JURISDICTION.
UH, DO WE HAVE ANY RECOURSE FROM A BOARD OR DOES IT FALL TO SOMEONE ELSE TRYING TO FOLLOW THE CONVERSATION? OKAY.
UP THERE AT THE DEUS, WHETHER OR NOT THE WETLANDS BOARD HAS THE AUTHORITY TO, TO PENALIZE, IF IT'S NOT IN THE ORDINANCE TO DO SO, THEN THE ANSWER IS NO.
WE'D HAVE TO DO A LITTLE BIT OF RESEARCH ON THAT.
UH, HOWEVER WE CAN ISSUE, UH, WE CAN ISSUE PENALTIES FOR AFTER THE FACT PERMITS.
UM, YOU KNOW, I WAS GONNA GET UP AND TALK TO OUR, UH, FRONT COUNTER FOLKS WHILE THE, WHILE THE, UH, CONVERSATION WAS GOING, BUT I'M PRETTY SURE THAT WE COULD,
[00:55:01]
WE COULD ISSUE AN AFTER THE FACT.SO WE'VE ALREADY ASSESSED AN AFTER THE FACT, UH, UH, UH, PERMIT PENALTY FROM A BUILDING CODE STANDPOINT OR FROM A BUILDING PERMIT STANDPOINT, IS THAT DOUBLE AND FROM THE WETLAND STANDPOINT, OH, AND FROM THE WETLANDS BOARD STANDPOINT, THAT'S ALREADY BEEN DONE.
UH, PLEASE, UH, HOLD, HOLD ON JUST A SECOND.
IT, IT HAS, UM, AND, AND AFTER THE FACT PENALTY HAS BEEN ASSESSED BOTH FOR THE WETLANDS BOARD PERMIT AND FOR THE BUILDING, IT HAS ALREADY BEEN DONE.
THEREFORE, THAT'S WHY I'D ASK YOU TO STAY HERE.
IF IN FACT THAT'S ALREADY BEEN DONE, EVEN THOUGH, UH, IT WAS OUTSIDE OF OUR JURISDICTION, WE'RE ASKED, GONNA BE ASKED FOR A MOTION FOR AN AFTER THE FACT PERMIT.
UH, YOU MEAN TO APPROVE THE AFTER THE FACT PERMIT? UH, THAT IS THE WAY I SEE IT.
SO IS THERE ANY NEED OR IS THERE ANY RECOURSE FOR US ASKING FOR A MOTION FOR AN AFTER THE FACT PERMIT, UH, ON THIS PARTICULAR MATTER? UH, I HAVE A QUESTION.
HOW CAN WE DO THAT WHEN THE APPLICATION SHOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN HERE? WELL, I WOULD, I HAVE A, WE'RE LISTENING MY FRIEND POINT ABOUT THAT.
I KNOW IT'S THE BOARD'S POLICY, NOT D APPEAR, THIS TYPE OF PERMIT APPLICATION IF THERE ARE NO VISIBLE WEAPONS EITHER IN FRONT OF OR BEHIND THE EXISTING BULKHEAD.
BUT WHEN YOU ARE BULKHEADING, WHEN YOU'RE PUTTING A BULKHEAD IN FRONT OF AN EXISTING BULKHEAD, YES, SIR.
UH, THE EXISTING BULKHEAD, THEORETICALLY IT'S NOT GONNA BE THERE FOREVER.
UH, IT'S, IT IS THERE NOW, BUT IT'S NOT A PARTICULAR REQUIREMENT THAT THAT BULKHEAD EVEN STAYS THERE ONCE THE NEW BULKHEADS PUT IN MM-HMM
AND IF THAT'S THE CASE, YOU CAN ASSUME THAT THERE, THERE, THERE WOULD BE WETLANDS JURISDICTION IF YOU WERE PUTTING IN A BULKHEAD TWO FEET IN FRONT OF THE OLD BULKHEAD.
IF YOU TAKE THE OLD BULKHEAD OUT, UH, THERE'S NO REQUIREMENT THAT YOU LEAVE THE OLD BULKHEAD IN.
AND THERE'S NO GUARANTEE THAT OLD BULKHEADS GONNA BE THERE FOREVER.
IT'S NOT GONNA RIGHT AWAY IN A COUPLE YEARS.
UH, SO THEORETICALLY THERE IS WETLANDS JURISDICTION THERE.
IT'S JUST THE BOARD DECIDES OUT OF, UH, ECONOMY AND PRUDENCE AND JUST KIND OF COMMON SENSE NOT TO TREAT THAT AS JURISDICTIONAL.
BUT I DO BELIEVE IT IS TECHNICALLY JURISDICTIONAL.
AND I, WHEN I FIRST TOOK OVER THIS ROLE, I WAS A LITTLE PUZZLED ABOUT THE RULE AND CERTAINLY ONCE I UNDERSTOOD IT, IT MADE PERFECT SENSE.
AND I TALKED TO BMRC ABOUT THAT, AND THAT WAS MY UNDERSTANDING AND EXPLANATION THAT I GOT THAT, THAT, AND, AND THAT THIS WAS, THAT THE BOARD'S DECISION TO TREAT THESE THIS WAY WAS FIRMLY WITHIN ITS DISCRETION OF BMRC.
AGREED WITH THAT STANCE, BUT THAT I DO BELIEVE THAT THE BOARD TECHNICALLY WOULD HAVE JURISDICTION.
UM, IT JUST DOESN'T MAKE A LOT OF SENSE TO EXERCISE IT.
AND, AND AS, AND, AND, AND I THINK IT'S A VERY PRUDENT WAY TO HANDLE THINGS.
UH, C CAN YOU OFFER ANYTHING BEYOND THAT? UH, OKAY.
UH, MR. TAYLOR HAS A QUESTION.
I THINK YEAH, WE, WHEN THE BIGGEST THING ABOUT THE JPA, WHEN IT'S NOT IN OUR JURISDICTION IS BEEN SUPP APPLIED FOR YOU.
AND IT COSTS A LOT OF MONEY TO HAVE IT ADVERTISED AND EVERYTHING, BUT THAT PAPER SAYING THAT YOU DON'T NEED THE PERMIT IS PROTECTION FOR YOUR LIGHTER.
YOU KNOW WHAT I'M SAYING? AND THIS IS A STRANGE SITUATION.
I, I, I DON'T THINK MR. JEFF, YOU KNOW, HE JUST, A STRANGE SITUATION.
NOT ONLY, LIKE YOU SAID, THERE'S GONNA BE A PENALTY FOR THE, FOR THE, UH, BUILDING PERMIT, LIKE YOU SAY.
THEY, THEY HAD TO BE HERE DURING THE SECOND TIME.
THEY'VE BEEN HERE FOR THE SAME SITUATION.
BUT WHAT, BUT WHAT I'M SAYING IS BECAUSE OF THE STRANGE SITUATION, THEY'VE ALREADY ARE ALREADY A, A BUILDING PERMIT.
AND, AND THE JURISDICTION IS THE, LIKE, LIKE THE CORPS OF ENGINEERS.
IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT THE BRCS, IT'S NOT OURS.
AND IF YOU'VE GOT A, DID THEY SEND YOU ANY PAPERWORK OR ANYTHING ON THAT, OR JUST OH, WHAT IT IS ON THE VMRC HABITAT PERMIT ROAD SITE.
THEY HAVE THEIR EXPLANATION ON THERE.
AND EVEN THOUGH THEY ONLY HAVE IT FOR TWO TO FOUR, I WAS TOLD THAT IT'S ACTUALLY FOR FOR SURE.
THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT, SO WHAT I'M SAYING, HE'S, HE'S GONE, GONE BEYOND THING AND THAT THE COURT DOESN'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH IT.
'CAUSE IT IS THEIR JURISDICTION.
IT'S NOT OURS, IT'S NOT VRCS BECAUSE IT'S MANMADE.
AND LIKE YOU SAY, UH, THEY'LL, THEY'LL PAY A PENALTY FOR THE, AFTER THE FACT BUILDING PERMIT, NOT, NOT THE WETLANDS PERMIT.
AND THAT'S, THAT'S, THAT'S THE END OF IT.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR MR. PBIT
[01:00:01]
FOR THE MOMENT? NOT FOR MR. PBIT.I HAVE A GENERAL COMMENT AND JUST WANT THANK YOU, SIR.
CLARIFICATION ON, SIR, I'M GONNA STAND, UH, SIR, I'M GONNA HANG ON JUST FOR A SECOND WHILE HANG.
SO ON THIS MIGHT, YOU MIGHT ANSWER THIS BECAUSE I JUST GOT SOME INFORMATION, STRANGELY, THAT ULTIMATELY WHEN YOU HAVE A SITUATION HERE WITH PERMITS AND WHATNOT, IT'S THE HOMEOWNER'S RESPONSIBILITY FOR THIS.
IS THAT CORRECT? IS THAT, IS THAT, UH, THE BOTTOM LINE? IT'S NOT MR. UH, BRITTEN'S OR ANYONE.
IT'S NOT, NOT MR. UH, UH, JUST, UH, IT'S THE HOMEOWNERS, UH, HANK.
SO MR. BADGER, I'D LIKE, UH, TO HEAR FROM MRS. GOR.
SO WHAT I HAVE THIS, UH, GIVE US A MOMENT, PLEASE.
UH, MS. GORMAN, WOULD YOU PLEASE HELP US ON THIS? MAY I SWEAR YOU IN? UH, DO YOU SWEAR YOU TELL THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH AND ALL MATTERS BEFORE THIS BOARD? YES.
MS. CLAIRE GORMAN, UH, VMRC, CAN YOU HELP US AT ALL REGARDING THE QUESTION OF WHOSE RESPONSIBILITY IT IS? THAT'S FIRST QUESTION.
SO WHEN YOU ISSUE ANY TYPE OF PERMIT, IT IS THE HOMEOWNER WHO TYPICALLY SIGNS FOR THE PERMIT.
IT IS THEIR RESPONSIBILITY FOR WHAT HAPPENS ON THERE PROPERTY.
HOWEVER, WHEN YOU HAVE A HOMEOWNER WHO HAS HIRED A CONTRACTOR OR AGENT, ESPECIALLY ONE THAT'S FAMILIAR WITH THE WORK, PRESUMABLY, UM, IT IS ALSO THEIR RESPONSIBILITY TO MAKE SURE THAT ALL PERMITS IN HAND FOR THE, THAT ALL PERMITS ARE IN HAND FOR THE WORK THAT THEY ARE CONDUCTING THEMSELVES.
BUT IT'S IN THE ORDER THAT YOU JUST STATED, THE HOMEOWNER HAS HIS ACTS TO GRIND WITH THE CONTRACTOR.
WE ARE SPEAKING TO THE HOMEOWNER.
IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING? NO.
IT REALLY HAS TO BE TAKEN ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS.
SOME HOMEOWNERS ARE MORE INFORMED THAN OTHERS.
UM, UNFORTUNATELY THERE REALLY ISN'T A BLACK OR WHITE NO ANSWER TO THAT.
UM, BUT ULTIMATELY ALL PARTIES ARE RESPONSIBLE TO SOME DEGREE FOR OBTAINING PERMITS, WHETHER IT'S THEIR PROPERTY OR THEY'RE THE ONES DOING THE WORK.
ALL THREE PARTIES SIGN THOSE APPLICATIONS.
UM, BADGER, AS FAR AS PENALTIES MM-HMM.
ONE OF THE PENALTIES THAT COULD BE USED IF IT'S A CONTRACTOR IS WHAT I'M THINKING ABOUT MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE AT THIS POINT, IF A CONTRACTOR IS CONSISTENTLY, UH, NOT DOING THE CORRECT JOB, PUTTING THE BULKHEADS OR WHATEVER HE IS DOING THAT'S NOT PERMITTED OR OUTSIDE OF THE EXISTING PERMIT, UH, CAN WE SANCTION THE CONTRACTOR AND SAY, WE'RE NOT TAKING ANY MORE APPLICATIONS FROM YOU,
SO, V SINCE WE V SINCE VMRC IS THE CLEARINGHOUSE FOR APPLICATIONS, WE CANNOT, WE CANNOT DENY A CONTRA, WE CANNOT DENY ANYONE THE, YOU KNOW, THE RIGHT TO SUBMIT AN APPLICATION NO MATTER OF THE SITUATION IN THE PAST.
CORRECT? I, I AM NOT AWARE OF ANY SITUATION WHERE WE HAVE BEEN ABLE TO TELL ANYONE YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO SEE.
SO ANYONE THAT HAS A CONTRACTOR'S LICENSE, NO MATTER THE PAST, HOW MANY TIMES THEY'VE DONE WHATEVER, RIGHT? THOSE VIOLATIONS, THAT TYPE, THOSE ACTIVITIES ARE HANDLED AFTER THOSE, THE APPLICATIONS.
AND THE ACTIVITIES HAVE BEEN CONDUCTED.
SO TO YOUR POINT, I DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER TO THAT.
I THINK THAT THAT COMES INTO PLAY MORE ON THE ZONING AND PLANNING SIDE OF THINGS, WHERE THEY REQUIRE CERTAIN TYPES OF CONTRACTOR LICENSES FOR CERTAIN TYPES OF WORK.
I THINK THAT'S WHERE, WHEN YOU GET DEPORT INVOLVED IN THAT, THAT'S WHERE THAT
I DON'T THAT THAT'S, YEAH, THAT'S THEIR PURVIEW.
AND WE'RE KIND OF GETTING OFF TRACK HERE ANYWAY, SO, RIGHT.
SO YOU CAN OFTEN, WHEN WE ISSUE PERMITS, WE WAIT FOR, WE WAIT FOR CONFIRMATION FROM THE LOCALITY THAT THEY'RE COMFORTABLE WITH THE PROJECT BEFORE WE ISSUE OURS.
YOU HAVE THAT SAME PURVIEW, BUT THANK YOU.
I WOULD JUST ADD MR. WATSON, QUICKLY THAT, UM, FROM A COUNTY PERSPECTIVE IN ISSUING BUILDING PERMITS, WE RELY ON DEPORT, RELY ON WHAT? UH, RELY ON DEPORT OH, YES.
AND, UM, I'M NOT AWARE OF ANY PROHIBITION WE COULD HAVE AS LONG AS THEY HAVE THEIR LICENSE WITH DEPORT AND THEIR, AND THEIR, AND, AND THEY'RE LICENSED TO DO CERTAIN WORK.
I THINK THAT PRETTY WELL ANSWERS YOUR QUESTION.
BUT, UM, I JUST, UH, I WANTED TO CIRCLE BACK TO THE JURISDICTIONAL QUESTION, OR RATHER THE QUESTION ABOUT THE MOTION.
THE STAFF DOES REQUEST THAT, UH, THAT YOU, UH, THAT YOU PUT FORTH MOTIONS FOR EITHER APPROVAL OR DENIAL ON, ON THESE SINCE YOU HAD CUSTOMARILY
[01:05:01]
VOTED ON THESE IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, FOR, FOR SOME OF 'EM THAT, UH, THAT YOU JUST GO AHEAD AND DO THAT.SO I DID CONFER WITH, UH, MR. WATSON AND THE STAFF REQUESTS THAT YOU PROVIDE MOTIONS FOR EACH OF THESE CASES TODAY.
UH, FOR APPROVAL OR DENIAL OR DEFERRAL OR WHATEVER AFTER THE FACT.
AND I JUST WANTED TO CONFIRM EVERYTHING THAT, UH, THAT, UH, MS. GORMAN ALSO SAID THAT, UH, YOU KNOW, WE WOULD ACCEPT APPLICATIONS NOW IF THERE IS A, UH, IF THERE'S A, UM, UH, A FREQUENT FLYER OR A REPEAT OFFENDER, WHATEVER TERM YOU WANT TO USE, YOU KNOW, WE WILL, YOU KNOW, WE'LL STILL REVIEW AND PROCESS THOSE, BUT IF WE DON'T GET THE INFORMATION THAT WE NEED TO CONTINUE ON WITH A, UH, CONTINUE ON WITH A REVIEW OR TO CONTINUE ON WITH AN INSPECTION, THEN THE STAFF RESPECTFULLY SAYS THAT'S GONNA BE CONTINGENT ON THE CONTRACTOR.
OR IF THE, YOU KNOW, THE PERSON'S DOING THE WORK TO GIVE US THE INFORMATION WE NEED TO MOVE THIS THING FORWARD, OR TO MOVE WHATEVER PERMIT OR PLAN, REVIEW OR INSPECTION FORWARD.
I FEEL LIKE WE'RE, UH, ON A JURY.
AND, AND, AND IT, UM, COME ON.
UM, BETH, WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO OFFER? UM, I JUST WANTED TO, UM, REITERATE THE FACT THAT IT SEEMS LIKE ALL FOUR OF THESE WERE OUTSIDE OF THE BOARD'S JURISDICTION AND OR COULD BE.
THIS ONE IS, THIS ONE IS OUTSIDE OF THE BOARD'S JURISDICTION.
UM, THEY, THE, UM, THE CONTRACTOR HAS ALREADY BEEN, UH, PENALIZED BY DOUBLING HIS FEE FOR TODAY.
YOU KNOW, IT'S 3 84, UM, FOR IT TO COME TO THE BOARD.
AND THEY'VE ALREADY PAID TWICE THAT.
SO IN ADDITION TO, SO, SO WHAT IS YOUR POINT? MY POINT IS, I JUST WANTED YOU TO KNOW THAT THEY FINANCIALLY ALREADY HAD A HIT.
AND THAT'S ALL I WANTED YOU TO KNOW IS FINANCIALLY ALREADY HAD WE THANK YOU.
AND WE'RE GLAD YOU'RE INVOLVED AND WE UNDERSTAND THAT THERE WAS A DOUBLE EXPOSURE, UH, THAT'S THE RIGHT TERM.
UH, BUT, UH, NOT FOR YOU, MA'AM.
WE'RE GLAD TO HAVE YOU INVOLVED.
OKAY? UH, BUT IN THIS, THIS CASE, ONE AT THE TIME, UM, I THINK IT IS, IS RIDICULOUS THAT WE'RE EVEN HERE, THAT IT WASN'T DONE PROPERLY.
AND WE ARE NOW ASKED TO, UH, APPROVE OR NOT AN AFTER THE FACT PERMIT, UH, WHEN IT SHOULDN'T BE HANDLED THIS WAY IN THE FIRST PLACE.
UH, MOST OF ALL, MR. ICK, RIGHT? I CASE BACKYARD.
SO IT LOOKS LIKE AT THIS STAGE WHERE OUR FINAL DECISION'S GONNA BE, BUT I WANNA MAKE SURE THAT THIS INSPECTION OF THE DEADMAN ARE, UH, UH, ARE DONE.
AND I'D LIKE TO ASK MR. BRITTON, YOU'RE THE NEW CONTRACTOR, WILL YOU MAKE SURE THAT THIS INSPECTION OF THE DEN MEN WILL BE GET DONE? IT WILL BE DONE.
I, I, I TAKE YOUR, AT YOUR WORD THAT'S, GO AHEAD, PLEASE.
AND I WOULD JUST SAY THERE IS AN ACTIVE BUILDING PERMIT.
THAT MEANS WE'LL BE IN THE, THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT.
WILL BE, UH, OBLIGATED TO DO THAT.
I'D ALSO LIKE TO SAY THAT, UH, THAT WAS MR. BRITTON SENIOR AND HE'S BEEN DOING IT FOR ABOUT A HUNDRED YEARS.
UH, THEREFORE, I BELIEVE YOU WITH ALL MY HEART, UH, DON'T SHOOT, DON'T MAKE US LOOK STUPID HERE.
UM, YOU DONE BEFORE LAST OF NEXT WEEK.
THAT'S WHAT I WANT TO HEAR RIGHT THERE.
YOU DIDN'T HAVE A MICROPHONE, BUT, UH, MR. BRITTON SR.
HE'S GONNA CHECK IT AND IT'S PROMISED WITHIN TWO WEEKS.
10 DAYS, HE'LL HAVE IT EXPOSED.
UH, WE WILL LOOK AT IT AND THAT'LL BE IT.
SO WE'RE TAKING THIS MAN AT HIS WORD.
I THINK, UH, EVERYBODY ONE AGREES.
UH, SO AS EVERYBODY SAID THERE, DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING ELSE TO SAY? SCH TICKER? NO.
UH, IT'S GONNA SOUND LIKE A REALLY STUPID ONE.
NO, IT DONE NOTHING STUPID, BUT, UM, WE'RE GONNA PROVE IT.
AND I, I TOTALLY AGREE WITH MR. LEE.
WE NEED TO PROVE THESE OR DISAPPROVE, WHATEVER WE'RE GONNA DO, WE NEED TO DO IT.
WE'VE GOT NO OPTION ACCORDING TO, UH OH, BUT SHOULD BE CHARGED.
LIKE, IT SOUNDS, SOUNDS STUPID, BUT SHOULD BE CHARGED FOR A FOOT OF VEGETATION.
I CAN'T, WE, THE ONLY THING I I, IT'S A LITTLE BIT LATE IN THE DISCUSSION HERE, AND I, MAYBE I SHOULDN'T INTERJECT THIS, BUT I DID NOTICE A LOT TO THE EAST OF THIS PARTICULAR ONE, RIGHT.
AND IT WAS VERY SEVERELY UNDER DAMAGED IN TERMS OF, UH, AND YOU KNOW, IT, IT GIVES YOU A BAD FEELING WHEN YOU LOOK AT THIS ONE.
[01:10:01]
THEY SAY IT WAS A FUNCTIONAL BULKHEAD AND IT WAS IN GOOD SHAPE, BUT IT'S A LITTLE BIT TOUGH IN REGARDS TO, YOU KNOW, BUT WE'RE APPROVING STUFF THAT'S TOTALLY OUT OF OUR JURISDICTION.THAT'S NO REASON I'M SAYING THAT.
I'VE GOT SOMETHING SAYING THAT WE'RE NOT GOOD.
I MAKE A MOTION THAT WE ISSUE A LETTER.
UH, AN NPN LETTER, NO PERMIT, REQUIRED LETTER.
I DON'T SEE HOW WE CAN DO ANYTHING OTHER THAN IT DOESN'T FALL JURISDICTION.
UH, SO, SO LET'S BACK UP A MOMENT.
THIS IS JPA 2 0 2 5 0 5 5 7 AFTER THE FACT, UH, MOTION PLEASE.
YEAH, I, MR. BADGER, I MAKE A MOTION, UH, TO ISSUE THE COUNTY ISSUE.
A NO PERMIT REQUIRED LETTER FROM THE WETLANDS PERSPECTIVE.
ALRIGHT? DOES EVERYONE UNDERSTAND THAT? UH, YOU, UH, I GUESS, UH, YOU, YOU ARE OBVIOUSLY MUCH MORE KNOWLEDGEABLE ABOUT THIS.
IS IT THE COUNTY OR THE VMRC OR WHO ACTUALLY DOES THAT? NO.
THEY WOULD NORMALLY SEND YOU A NO PERMIT REQUIRED LETTER IF IT WASN'T IN THE JURISDICTION ANYWAY.
SO WE CAN'T ISSUE A PERMIT FOR SOMETHING THAT'S NOT IN OUR JURISDICTION.
SO THAT'S WHY WE HAVE TO DO THIS.
WE'RE GONNA GET RAIN VOTE, UH, PLEASE.
UH, I NEED MY HEARING AIDS IN.
I MAKE A MOTION, UH, THAT THE COUNTY ISSUE A NO PERMIT REQUIRED LETTER, UM, AS PER AS, UM, FROM A WETLANDS PERSPECTIVE, WETLANDS BOARD PERSPECTIVE.
OKAY? I THINK WE ALL UNDERSTAND WHAT THE MOTION IS.
UH, IS THERE A SECOND? I WILL SECOND THAT.
UM, THAT, THAT CARRIES, AND I HOPE EVERYONE UNDERSTANDS IT, AND IF THEY DON'T, IF ANYONE WANTS TO KNOW, THIS IS YOUR MAN RIGHT HERE.
AND MR. WATSON, I WOULD ALSO SUGGEST, OR AT LEAST RAISE, UH, THE POSSIBILITY OF DISPOSING OF THE SWORN COMPLAINT THAT'S RELATED TO THIS AT THIS TIME.
UH, THAT IS, I THINK THAT'S, I THOUGHT IT WENT WITHOUT SAYING.
I, I, I'M NOT SURE WHETHER IT DOES OR NOT.
UH, WOULD YOU MIND REPEATING THAT AND DOES THAT NEED TO BE PUT IN THE MOTION AGAIN, OR, I THINK IT'S APPROPRIATE TO HAVE A SEPARATE MOTION ALL, PLEASE, UH, SAY IT AGAIN.
WELL, UM, THERE WAS A SWORN COMPLAINT ISSUED, UH, FOR, UM, CONSTRUCTING THE BULKHEAD WITHOUT A PERMIT.
SO I WOULD REQUEST THE BOARD, UH, TO MAKE A MOTION TO DISPOSE OF THAT ONE WAY OR THE OTHER.
UM, IF, IF SO, THAT'S, UH, DEALT WITH ON THE RECORD.
AND I'M NOT SURE IT'S NECESSARY, BUT WE'RE GONNA DO IT ANYWAY.
UH, MR. WARD, WAS THAT A GOVERNMENTAL COMPLAINT OR A PRIVATE INDIVIDUAL COMPLAINT? GOVERNMENT? UM, WELL, IT ORIGINATED WITH A PRIVATE COMPLAINT, BUT THEN AT THE, NOT THE LAST WETLANDS BOARD, BUT THE BOARD MEETING PREVIOUS TO THAT, I SUBMITTED THE SWORN COMPLAINT TO THE BOARD.
UM, THAT WAS CONTINUED TO TODAY.
UM, IN THE MEANTIME, WE GOT THE APPLICATIONS AND, AND OB OBVIOUSLY MATCH THOSE UP FOR THE HEARING TODAY.
UH, WHETHER WE DO OR DO NOT NEED TO DO THIS, WE'RE GOING TO DO IT.
SO I'D LIKE A MOTION ON, UH, DOING AWAY WITH THAT COMPLAINT ISSUE, MR. CHAIR.
I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION ON THE VIOLATION OF JPA 2025 DASH 5 57 AND THAT WE VACATE THE VIOLATION.
IT'S, UH, OFF THE TABLE TAKEN CARE OF.
UM, WE'VE GOT, UH, SEVERAL THINGS, BUT I NEED FIVE MINUTES, PLEASE.
WE ARE BACK UNDERWAY AFTER A LITTLE BREAK.
WE'RE GONNA MOVE ON, UH, TO THE NEXT NEW BUSINESS IS 4.02 JPA IS 2 0 2 5 DASH 0 5 6 3.
UH, MR. WAYNE COX? UH, YES SIR.
IF YOU WOULD GIVE US A SYNOPSIS, WE'D APPRECIATE IT.
UM, I'LL TRY NOT TO REPEAT TOO MUCH, BUT AT LEAST TOUCH ON ALL THE POINTS.
THIS IS A ALMOST IDENTICAL SITUATION.
UM, ANOTHER BULKHEAD BUILT IN FRONT OF A EXISTING BULKHEAD, UM, ON A MANMADE CANAL IN CAPTAIN'S COVE.
AND, UH, HERE IS THE LOT, UM, UH, OBVIOUSLY VACANT AND, UM, NOT QUITE AS CLEAN AS A WATERFRONT
[01:15:01]
AS, UH, THE PREVIOUS ONE OR PROBABLY THE NEXT TWO.HERE IS A PICTURE OF EXACTLY WHAT WAS CONSTRUCTED SHOWING THE OLD BULKHEAD AND THE NEW BULKHEAD SEAWARD OF THE OLD BULKHEAD.
AND HERE IS THE CROSS SECTION SHOWING THE MEAN LOW WATER AND THE MEAN HIGH WATER ON THE FACE OF THE BULKHEAD.
AND I WILL, UH, GO INTO THE REST OF, OF, UH, WHAT'S HAPPENED WITH THIS APPLICATION.
THIS WAS THE ORIGINAL APPLICATION THAT WAS SUBMITTED AND, UH, THESE ARE THE SIGNATURES THAT WERE NOT GENUINE, UM, FOR A NUMBER OF PEOPLE.
AND THEN THESE WERE THE GENUINE SIGNATURES THAT CAME, UH, A WEEK OR TWO LATER.
UM, I WAS ALERTED TO THIS PROBLEM WHEN I GOT SOME PHONE CALLS BEFORE THE BOARD MEETING.
UH, PEOPLE ASKED ME WHAT WAS GOING ON, AND MY RESPONSE WAS, WELL, DON'T YOU KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON? YOU SIGNED A-J-P-A-A COUPLE DAYS AGO.
AND THE RESPONSE I GOT WAS, I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.
AND THEN THEREFORE, AFTER THE MEETING WAS OVER, I STARTED LOOKING AT THE SIGNATURES MORE CLOSELY AND SAW THE SIGNATURES SEEMED TO MATCH EACH OTHER AND, UM, CALLED, YOU KNOW, EMAILED PEOPLE AND SAID, IS THIS, DID YOU ACTUALLY SIGN THIS? HAVE YOU EVER SEEN IT? THE ANSWER WAS NO.
UH, BUT MY UNDERSTANDING IS SUBSEQUENT TO THAT, UM, THE COX'S AND THE OTHER, UH, PARTIES THAT THIS HAPPENED TO DID REVIEW THE JPA, OBVIOUSLY THEY DID SIGN IT, AND I'VE SPOKEN TO 'EM SUB SUBSEQUENTLY, AND THIS IS WHAT THEY WANTED.
IT'S JUST THE FIRST ONE GOT SUBMITTED WITHOUT THEIR KNOWLEDGE AND WITHOUT OBVIOUSLY THEIR SIGNATURES.
BUT AFTER REVIEW IT IS WHAT THEY WANT.
UM, IT IS THAT THEY, THEY, THEY HAVE CONFIRMED THAT TO ME THAT, THAT THEY HAD NO ISSUE WITH IT.
THEY JUST DIDN'T HAVE ANY PRIOR KNOWLEDGE, I GUESS.
I GUESS THAT'S IMPORTANT FOR THE MOMENT.
I'M NOT SURE OF IT, BUT, UM, IT, AT LEAST THEY AGREE WITH WHAT WAS THERE.
AND, UM, THIS LOT DID APPEAR TO BE, UH, ONE THAT POSSIBLY COULD HAVE HAD WETLANDS BEHIND IT.
IT WAS OBVIOUSLY IMPOSSIBLE TO TELL AFTER THE FACT.
IT DID APPEAR THAT THERE WERE SOME RUNOFF FROM NEIGHBORING PROPERTIES.
UH, I'LL GO BACK TO LOOK AT THE OVERHEAD UNIMPROVED BETWEEN TWO IMPROVED PROPERTIES.
UM, BUT UH, THAT'S THE SITUATION WITH THIS ONE.
UM, POSSIBLY, UH, EDGING ON THE INSANITY, BUT, UH, I'D LIKE TO REMIND THIS BOARD THAT A YEAR AGO OR MORE WE HAD, UH, SOMETHING ON THE CAUSEWAY TO SHIG, UH, HELP ME OUT.
UH, THE LITTLE PLACE THAT, UM, WE HAD, WE HAD THE ABILITY TO TELL 'EM TO TAKE IT ALL OUT SO WE COULD SEE VEG OR NOT.
I THINK EVERYBODY REMEMBERS THAT THAT WAS THE YEAR OR SO, AND, UH, WE DID NOT, I THINK WE CAME TO TERMS AND, UH, JUST, IT'S, IT'S WITHIN THE BOARD'S JURISDICTION THAT THAT HAS HAPPENED IN THE PAST.
UH, NOW, UH, ANYONE REPRESENTING MR. COX? MR. CO.
UH, WOULD YOU LIKE TO SPEAK? NO, SIR.
MR. COX IS PRESENT, CHOOSE NOT TO SPEAK.
SO, UH, IS THERE ANYONE WITH KNOWLEDGE OR WISHES TO SPEAK ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR JPA CLOSED THE FLOOR, OPENED IT TO PUBLIC COMMENT, CLOSE IT, OPEN TO BOARD DISCUSSION.
WELL, I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR, MR. BRITTON, DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING YOU WANT TO SAY OTHER SAY ABOUT, UH, COULD YOU INVOLVE NOW WITH THESE PARTICULAR PROBLEM IS THE, THE BUILDING PERMITS, WHAT'S THE, WHAT'S THE PERMITS OR ISSUED FROM YOU ALL? IF THEY ARE ISSUED, UH, AND, UH, GETTING THE BUILDING PERMIT THEMSELVES TO HAVE AN INSPECTION SET? UH, AS FAR AS THE SUBMITTING THE JPAI HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.
UH, THINK BETH LING WAS HIRED TO, UH, TO DO THE ASSETS PERMITS.
UH, SHE COULD ASK YOU, UH, QUESTIONS AS WELL AS I COULD PROBABLY, YES, SIR.
WE'RE GONNA GET TO THAT IN JUST A MOMENT.
BUT YOU ARE IN CHARGE OF THIS AS IT GOES FORWARD NOW, AND YOU WILL DO THE SAME THING AS YOU SAID FOR THE LAST ONE.
YOU WILL X NUMBER OF DAYS, 10 DAYS, WHATEVER, UH, AND YOU WILL CALL IN, THEY'LL BE INSPECTED, BUT YOU WILL, WILL TAKE YOU AT YOUR WORD
[01:20:01]
THAT THEY DONE.ALL FOUR OF YOU DONE NEXT 10 DAYS, WE BELIEVE YOU.
FIRST, BEFORE WE GET INTO MORE QUESTIONS FROM THE BOARD, UH, BETH, DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING YOU'D LIKE TO TELL US ABOUT YOUR JOB AFTER THE FACT, WHAT YOU'VE DONE? ANY COMMENTS? UM, MR. UM, JEFF BROWN CALLED ME WHEN HE FOUND OUT THAT HE WAS IN VIOLATION AND ASKED ME TO DO THE PERMITTING, THE AFTER THE FACT PERMITTING.
SO I DID, SO I FILLED OUT ALL THE PERMITS.
I DID GO TO THE SITE, ALL THE SITES WHEN I WAS DOING THE PERMITTING, AND THIS PARTICULAR SITE TO ME APPEARED THAT, UM, IT'S LOWER THAN THE ONES AROUND IT.
AND SO ALL THE STORMWATER RUNOFF IS GOING TO THESE LOWER LOTS THAT ARE UNDEVELOPED AND, UM, THAT'S WHY THEY'RE WET FROM FRONT TO BACK.
UM, IF YOU TAKE A LOOK ALL THE WAY TO THE ROAD, THAT ONE IS WET AND IT SEEMS TO BE, UM, THE WAY IT IS ON A FEW OF THESE ROADS, UM, THAT HAVE UNDEVELOPED PROPERTIES.
AND AS OPPOSED TO THE LAST ONE, UH, TO ME IT APPEARS THERE COULD HAVE BEEN SOME VEG.
UH, I CAN'T SPEAK, I DIDN'T SEE, BUT, UH, CERTAINLY COMPARED TO THE REST, IT'S LOWER, ET CETERA.
UM, I THINK WE CALLED THE CLOSE THE FLOOR, UH, NOW BOARD DISCUSSION.
ALL I JUST WANT TO DO AGAIN, MS, NOT A COUPLE TECHNICAL THINGS.
I'M ALWAYS A GUY WHO LIKES TO EDIT THINGS AS YOU KNOW,
SO I'LL LET YOU MAKE YOU AWARE OF THE, UM, I THINK THAT THE REASON, THE REASON WHY WAS BECAUSE, UM, I REALIZED IT WASN'T THE MERCY'S JURISDICTION.
SO IT'S NOT SUBMERGED LAND REALLY.
I JUST, BUT I HAVE TO BRING THAT UP TO TWO SECURITY NUMBERS THERE.
UH, THAT'S IT FROM THAT PERSPECTIVE.
IS THIS A PERMIT THAT WOULD'VE BEEN REQUIRED HAD WE GOT IT WAS LOW.
WAS LOW WATER HITTING THE BALL? OLD BULKHEAD? WE DON'T KNOW.
WE DON'T KNOW IF THIS WAS, UM, WOULD'VE BEEN A NO PERMIT NEEDED OR NOT.
THE, THE NEW BULKHEAD LOW ORDER.
OH, THE, IT'S ALL, ALL IT, UH, RISES AND FALLS ON THE BULKHEAD.
YOU NEVER SEEN BOW TIE, YOU'VE NEVER SEEN IT GO LOW.
I MEAN, THIS AND THIS IS JUST GONNA BE A A, A PROFESSIONAL GUESS.
DO DO YOU THINK THAT THE, UH, IT'S TWO FOOTS, ONLY TWO FOOT OUT, YOU THINK? DO YOU THINK THAT THE IT WOULD HIT THE LOW WATER HIT THE OLD BULKHEAD? THAT A PROFESSIONAL GUESS? I, YES.
OH, MOST OF THESE LOCKS IN CHAPTER SCREW THAT HAVE BEEN BULKHEAD, THAT TIDE DOES HIGH AND LITTLE WATER ARE ON THE BULKHEADS.
THERE ARE A FEW THAT I'M STILL INVOLVED IN.
SOME OF THEM THAT ARE NOT BULKHEAD.
THIS STORM HAS SOME NON VEGETATED WETLANDS IN FRONT OF THE BULKHEAD WHEN THE NEW ONES INSTALLED.
BUT IN CASES LIKE THIS, IT'S VERY, VERY RARELY THAT YOU'RE GONNA FIND ANYTHING IN FRONT OF, EVEN THOUGH THE BULKHEAD HAS LEAKED THE DEPTH OF THE WATER OUTSIDE IT, IT JUST, IT DOESN'T CREATE ANY WETLANDS OUTSIDE OF IF THE BULKHEAD ALREADY EXISTS, ESPECIALLY ON THE CANALS.
WHAT ABOUT NON-VEGETARIAN? WELL, NOT WHAT BULKHEAD HAS BEEN INSTALLED.
BECAUSE OF THE DREDGING THEY DO IN ILLINOIS.
IT IS JUST LIKE THERE, UH, IT, THEY GOT LOCKS RIGHT NOW THE WIRE IS THAT HAVEN'T BEEN BULKHEAD AND THERE'S A ROAD THAT THERE IS GONNA BE NON VEGETATED.
AND THERE'S A COUPLE THAT I BEEN WORKING ON WITH PEOPLE THAT DAKOTA HAS TO VEGETATED IN FRONT WHERE THE BULK YOU BOTH IS GONNA GO TO KEEP 'EM ALL LINE.
IF YOU CAN'T STEP IT OUT AND BE BEHIND IT, SAY IT'S GOING LOSE IT EITHER WAY FOR COURT JUDGE AND, AND THOSE, THOSE WILL BE BEFORE THE BOARD, I'M SURE.
UH, I DON'T KNOW HOW TO APPROACH THIS QUESTION REGARDS TO THE FALSE SIGNATURE AND I, I GUESS I'LL ASK THE, THAT'S COMING.
UH, SO WHO, DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY INFORMATION IN REGARDS TO WHO DID THIS? ISN'T THAT A MUTE POINT BUT, WELL, I MEAN, REASON WHY I'M SAYING THAT WE NOW HAVE THE CORRECT SIGNATURES
[01:25:02]
WE'RE COMING UP ON OLD BUSINESS SOONER OR LATER, VINCE.WELL, I MEAN, I DON'T, I JUST WANT ASK A QUESTION.
UH, SO I, I GUESS YOU CAN ASK ANYTHING YOU WANT, BUT, OKAY.
WELL, I GUESS I WILL ASK ONE PERSON, MS. GORMAN, AND WHAT'S HER OPINION ON THAT? IF SHE HAS ONE, AND YOU KNOW, TO ME, ANYTIME YOU HAVE A JPA OR ANY DOCUMENT GORMAN, YOU EXPECT SIGNATURE BE CORRECT BMRC.
UH, YEAH, SO TYPICALLY, UM, SO I CAN'T GIVE MY OPINION OR, UM, YOU KNOW, REALLY SPEAK TO THE SPECIFIC CASE.
UM, WHEN WE, IT IS IMPORTANT THAT THE SIGNATURES WHO, WHOEVER SIGNS IT, THEY ARE VALID SIGNATURES.
I THINK THAT, UM, SO LONG AS THE PROPERTY OWNER IS AWARE THAT THIS WORK IS BEING CONDUCTED ON THEIR PROPERTY, YOU'RE OKAY.
UM, WE HAVE IN THE PAST WHEN VMRC HAS RECEIVED FORGED SIGNATURES, IT HAS BEEN RAISED TO THE ATTORNEY'S GENERAL'S OFFICE.
UM, BUT THAT'S IN UNUSUAL CIRCUMSTANCES WHERE THE PROPERTY OWNER WAS NOT AWARE OF THESE.
THE, WAS TOTALLY UNAWARE, WAS NEVER MADE AWARE.
IN THIS CASE, THERE WAS A TEMPORARY SITUATION WHICH WAS RECTIFIED.
SO THAT'S VERY HELPFUL, THANK VERY MUCH.
UH, ANYTHING ELSE FROM YOU SIR? UH, NOT AT THE MOMENT.
ALRIGHT, LET'S MOVE AROUND THE ROOM.
DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING ELSE? WELL, AS LONG AS WE HAVE THE PROPER LEGAL SIGNATURES NOW, UH, EVEN THOUGH PRIOR TO THAT WE HAD ILLEGAL SIGNATURES, BUT WE NOW HAVE THE CORRECT SIGNATURES.
I THINK THAT THE PORTIONS IS, IS MUTE AS FAR AS WE'RE CONCERNED AT THIS MOMENT.
MR. BETH ASKING MY QUESTION ABOUT THE LOW ORDER, HER AND HER PROFESSIONAL OPINION HITTING THE OVERALL KID.
SO OUTTA OUR JURISDICTION HAS THE OTHER ONE, IT'S JUST YOUR COMMENT.
WE BOTH, I THINK WE ALL AGREE ON THAT.
UH, MR. BADGER, ONE, ONE QUICK QUESTION, AND I THINK THIS NEEDS TO BE, UH, ADDRESSED BY EITHER THE APPLICANT OR HIS AGENT, UH, WHO WERE FAMILIAR WITH THE PROPERTY, WAS THE ORIGINAL BULKHEAD A FUNCTIONAL BULKHEAD TO BEGIN WITH? IF IT'S NOT FUNCTIONAL, THEN WE'VE GOT SOME JURISDICTION BEHIND IT.
I THINK WE, I DON'T THINK HE WAS FUNCTIONAL, BUT IT HAD HOLES THERE.
SO IT COULD HAVE COULD'VE BEEN A REPAIR AT ONE TIME.
THE CAPTAIN STOVE IS GOING AROUND AND SURVEY ALL THE BULKHEADS IN CAPTAIN STOVE AND IF YOU GOT HOLES IN IT, THEY'LL DOLLARS GOT A AND THEY SUGGEST THAT YOU DO IT.
UH, THE ONES THAT ARE UN BULKHEAD, THEY'RE TRYING TO FORCE THOSE PEOPLE TO DO THEM, WHICH THEY SHOULD REALLY, THAT SEVERAL THINGS KEEP THEM HAVE TO DREAD SO MUCH.
AND, UH, THAT'S MR. BRITON SENIOR.
UH, THE ONLY OTHER ONE THAT I KNOW TO ASK WOULD BE YOU, MR. ICK.
ANY CHANCE, UH, THAT YOU KNOW, WHETHER IT WAS FUNCTIONING PRIOR? UH, THAT I DO NOT KNOW.
GUESS WE'RE, I GUESS I I WOULD ASK, UH, AGAIN, THERE'S NO PHOTOS FROM ANYONE REGARDS TO ANY A PER RRI VISUALS ON THIS PARTICULAR BULKHEAD.
OTHER THAN, UM, WHAT'S ON OUR ONLINE MAPPING SYSTEM, BUT THAT IS THE BIT MORE HELPFUL.
YOU CAN'T GET, GET DOWN THERE IN THE DIRT.
ANYTHING ELSE, UH, MR. BADGER? WELL, I'D LIKE TO ASK THE APPLICANT SINCE IT'S THEIR PROPERTY, THEY WOULD HAVE A BETTER UNDERSTANDING.
I, BUT CAN YOU, UH, MR. COX, DO YOU MIND? NOPE.
I NEED, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU CAN FORCE, WOULD YOU STATE YOUR NAME FOR THE RECORD, SIR? WAYNE COX.
MR. COX, MAY I SWEAR YOU IN? YES.
DO YOU FIRMLY SWEAR YOU TELL THE TRUTH, WHOLE TRUTH, NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH IN ALL MATTERS BEFORE THIS BOARD? YES.
MR. BADGER HAS A QUESTION? UH, YES.
WAS THE ORIGINAL BULKHEAD FUNCTIONING? YES, SIR.
WE MADE SEVERAL TRIPS BY BOAT.
WE LIVE ANYWAY, WE LIVE ON THE WATER ZONE THERE AND WE WOULD COME AND VISIT OFTEN AND THERE WERE SMALL DETERIORATIONS THAT THE LOWER PART OF THE WATER LINE, BUT THE BULKHEAD WAS ALMOST COMPLETELY INTACT.
THERE'S YOUR ANSWER WE'RE GOOD.
IT WAS FUNCTIONING JUST WHAT MR. BRITTON SAID.
ANYBODY ELSE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR ANYONE INCLUDING MR. COX? ALRIGHT, UH, ONCE AGAIN, THIS IS JUST LIKE THE PAST, UH, ASKING FOR A MOTION FOR AN AFTER THE FACT PERMIT.
UH, IS THERE ANYONE THAT WOULD OFFER THAT MOTION? WELL, I JUST WANT TO, IS THIS GONNA BE AN AFTER THE FACT PERMIT OR IS IT GONNA BE AN NPN AGAIN? YEAH, IT SOUNDS LIKE IT'S GONNA BE A NO PERMIT REQUIRED LETTER IS WHAT I'M THINKING.
[01:30:01]
AGAIN, WE DON'T HAVE ANY POSITIVE INFORMATION WHETHER OR NOT THERE WAS VEGETATE OR NON VEGETATIVE WETLANDS IMPACTED.ALL, ALL WE HAVE IS TWO PEOPLE THAT HAVE SWORN THAT UH, IT WAS NOT.
AND I THINK, AND IF WHEN'S THE OWNER, I THINK THAT'S GOOD ENOUGH IN REGARDS TO THE SITUATION.
UH, SO THAT'S, THAT'S THE MOTION.
DO YOU MIND DOING THAT FOR US? UH, YES.
UH, 2025 DASH 5 63 I MAKE A MOTION THAT THE COUNTY, UH, ISSUE A NO PERMITT REQUIRED LETTER FROM THE WETLANDS BOARD'S PERSPECTIVE.
DO WE WANNA MAKE A PART THAT MOTION, UM, TO, UH, DO AWAY WITH THE SWORN COMPLAINT? OH YEAH.
UH, DO AWAY WITH THE SWORN COMPLAINT.
EVERYBODY UNDERSTAND THAT? YES.
I WILL SECOND THAT MOTION TO ACCEPT THE NPN NUM, UH, LETTER AS WELL AS TO VACATE THE VIOLATION.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH MR. GADIG.
UH, LET'S CALL FOR A VOTE PLEASE.
SO, UH, THAT AFTER THE FACT IS UNANIMOUS, IF WE MIGHT MOVE ON.
UM, WE'VE GOT NEW AGENDAS, BUT UH, WE ARE GONNA MOVE ON TO, UH, 4.04 JPA 2 0 2 5 DASH 6 0 9.
MR. WATSON, YOU ARE AWARE OF THE FACT THAT WE'RE SKIPPING ONE, WE'RE GONNA COME BACK TO IT, RIGHT? YES.
I'VE BEEN WORRIED DEATH ABOUT IT.
UM, AGAIN, VERY SIMILAR TO THE LAST TWO, UM, UH, BULKHEAD BUILT SEAWARD OF AN EXISTING BULKHEAD IN CAPTAIN'S CODE ON A MANMADE CANAL.
UM, HERE IS THE LOT, UM, AND THE NEXT LOT IS THE ONE TO THE LEFT.
UH, A VACANT LOT HERE IS THE AERIAL OF THE, OF WHAT WAS CONSTRUCTED.
THE NEW BULKHEAD, OF COURSE, JUST IN FRONT OF THE OLD BULKHEAD, 60 FEET ACROSS.
HERE'S THE CROSS SECTION OF IT SHOWING THE MEAN LOW AND MEAN HIGH WATER ON THE FACE OF IT.
UH, JUST AS WITH THE COX APPLICATION, THERE WERE TWO VERSIONS OF THE SIGNATURE PAGE.
HERE'S THE FIRST WITH NOT THE CORRECT SIGNATURES AND THE SECOND WITH THE CORRECT SIGNATURES.
AND FINALLY WE HAVE WHAT WAS INCLUDED IN MOST OF THE APPLICATIONS OF AN EXPLANATION OF WHAT HAPPENED FROM MR. BROWN.
UM, I DO NOT, WELL, THERE WAS NOT ANY INDICATION OF, OF WETLANDS EITHER IN FRONT OR IN BACK OF THE OLD BULKHEAD.
UM, THIS SITE AND THE NEXT SITE WERE, SEEMED TO BE MUCH MORE, UH, STABLE, UH, HAD GRASS ON 'EM AND, AND LOOKED MUCH MORE STABLE IN THE PREVIOUS ONE WE LOOKED AT.
AND, UH, OTHER THAN THAT IT FALLS SQUARELY IN LINE, UH, WITH THE LAST TWO APPLICATIONS AS TO WHAT OCCURRED AND WHAT WAS BUILT.
I THINK WE'RE JUST GOING OVER THE SAME THING.
UH, SO, UH, AGENT, UH, ANYONE? YES SIR.
MR. BRIT SENIOR, I OBJECT TO THIS, BUT THE PREVIOUS OWNER I HAD GIVEN A PRICE TO, UH, TO REDO THIS BULKHEAD.
IT DID NOT HAVE ANY EXCEPT IT WAS FUNCTIONAL BULKHEAD.
WHEN WAS THAT ROUGHLY, SIR? THAT'S BEEN ABOUT A YEAR AND A HALF AGO.
MAYBE TWO, UH, S**T BACK, THE LITTLE GO HOME AND EVERYTHING THERE AND IT FELL THROUGH.
THE LOCK NEXT DOOR BEHIND HIS HOUSE.
I DID NOT DO THE BULKHEAD HERE, BUT I DID GIVE A PRICE ON IT AND I'M REAL FAMILIAR WITH THIS LOT.
AND, UH, I'M SORRY, WAS THE OLD BULKHEAD FUNCTION.
IT BUILT GOOD SHAPE COMPARED TO MODEL, OBVIOUSLY THAT'S THE REASON HE, HE DIDN'T WANNA SPEND THE MONEY, I GUESS.
YEAH, IT'S A LOT OF CASES, THAT'S WHY BIASED A WHILE
WELL, SO THAT'S MAYBE, UH, AHEAD OF THE FACT, BUT, UH, THAT WAS A FUNCTIONING BULLHEAD AND WE'VE TAKEN MR. BRITTON SR'S WORD EVERY TIME, SO I DON'T SEE ANY REASON NOT TO WRITE THAT.
UM, UH, IF I'M, YOU HAVE ANYTHING ELSE NO.
TO OFFER ON THIS? ALRIGHT SIR.
ANYONE DIRECTLY INVOLVED IN THIS JPA WISH TO SPEAK, PLEASE COME FORWARD.
WOULD YOU STATE YOUR NAME FOR THE RECORD? CHRIS GERSON.
MAY I SWEAR YOU IN? DO YOU AFFIRM OR SWEAR YOU TELL
[01:35:01]
THE TRUTH, WHOLE TRUTH, NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH IN ALL MATTERS BEFORE THIS BOARD? YES.AND YOU ARE THE OWNER OF THIS LOT, CORRECT? I AM CORRECT.
I DO HAVE PHOTOS IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO SEE OF THE LOT DURING CONSTRUCTION TO SHOW THE GRASS.
THAT'S IMPORTANT AND I APPRECIATE THAT.
WE WILL NEED TO GET A COPY OF THAT FOR THE RECORD.
CAN YOU FORWARD THAT TO VERY GOOD, THANK YOU.
UH, WOULD YOU PLEASE GET WITH THIS LADY AND FORWARD IT TO HER? YES, ABSOLUTELY.
WHAT'S THAT? WE'LL GET YOU EMAIL.
MR. LUKE BRITTON, YOU KNOW, I CONTRACTED THEM BACK IN NOVEMBER.
UM, AS FOR THE SIGNATURES, THEY, THERE WAS AN ISSUE WITH THE PAPERWORK AND NOT GETTING FILED.
UM, MR. BROWN HAD TRIED TO, UM, GET THE PAPERWORK THROUGH UNTIL I COULD GET ACCESS TO PRINT IT OUT AND GET IT TOGETHER WITH THE CORRECT SIGNATURES.
SO I WAS AWARE OF THE JPA, EVEN THE FILED BEFOREHAND AND OBVIOUSLY AGREE TO IT NOW.
NICE PICTURE THAT, THAT HELPS.
UM, IS THERE ANYONE ELSE, UH, THAT WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR JPA? ALRIGHT, I'D LIKE TO CLOSE THE FLOOR.
I'D LIKE TO OPEN TO PUBLIC COMMENT, NO PUBLIC COMMENT, CLOSE THE FLOOR, OPEN IT TO BOARD DISCUSSIONS.
MR. GETTY, I THINK THIS IS GONNA BE VERY SIMILAR TO THE LAST TWO WE HAD.
I THINK MAYBE WE JUST DISPENSE A BIT SUSPENSE AS A NOTE PERMIT NEEDED.
I THINK THAT'S THE WAY WE MIGHT WANT TO GO ON THIS ONE AS WELL.
LET'S, LET'S GO AROUND THE RUM.
DO YOU AGREE WITH THAT? I AGREE.
THAT'S FR UH, WE'RE GOOD MR. BADGER.
WE ALL AGREE THAT THIS IS THE SAME.
SO WE'RE ASKING FOR AN AFTER THE FACT PERMIT AND, UH, IT WILL, IT WILL.
UH, WE NEED THE SAME VERBIAGE AS, AS BEFORE.
MR. BADGER, UH, 2025 DASH 6 0 9, UM, MAKE A MOTION THAT A NO PERMIT LETTER IS, IS SENT FROM THE COUNTY.
ISSUING A NO PERMIT LETTER, UH, FROM THE COUNTY SAYING THERE WAS NO ISSUES OR NO PERMIT REQUIRED FROM THE WETLANDS BOARD.
AND WE WILL ALSO VI UH, VACATE VIOLATION RELATED TO JPA 2025.
MOTION MADE, UH, TO OF OUR MEMBERS.
UH, SO EVERYBODY UNDERSTAND THAT THEN I CALL FOR A SECOND, PLEASE.
UH, SECOND FROM SOMEONE THAT DIDN'T.
UH, THIS, THIS COVERS AND WE'RE GONNA MOVE ON.
SO NOW WE'RE GOING BACK TO THE WINGATE 2 0 2 5 0 6 0 8.
UM, SO AGAIN, UH, BULKHEAD BUILT SEAWARD OF AN EXISTING BULKHEAD ON THE MAN MAIN CANAL AND CAPTAIN'S COVE.
HERE IS THE PICTURE OF THE LOT OF THE ONE WE JUST HEARD IS THE LOT RIGHT TO THE RIGHT OF THIS LOT.
UM, LITTLE BIT SMALLER PICTURE HERE SHOWING THE, UH, NEW BULKHEAD AND THE OLD BULKHEAD ON THAT LOT.
UH, AGAIN, TWO FEET CHANNEL WORD AND HERE IS THE CROSS SECTION OF WHAT WAS BUILT.
UM, THERE IS, UH, ONE THING DIFFERENT ABOUT THIS APPLICATION, UM, AND IT STILL LISTS.
UH, I BELIEVE IT'S STILL LISTS LUKE BRITTON AS THE AGENT.
UH, I CAN TELL YOU BEFORE MARINE, I THINK YOU'RE EXACTLY RIGHT AND I NOTICED IT GOING THROUGH 'EM.
UM, AND, AND I, WELL I DID EXPECT MR. LITTLE BRIT TO BE HERE TODAY, SO I, I SO, UH, EXPLAIN THE LEGALITIES.
UM, WELL, I GUESS, UH, MY GENERAL UNDERSTANDING ABOUT AGENTS, I MEAN, YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE A CONTRACTOR TO BE AN AGENT.
I THINK JUST ABOUT ANYBODY CAN BE AN AGENT.
UM, HE SIGNED THIS, I'M NOT SURE IF MR. WINDAR IS HERE.
I I WAS GONNA BE CONCERNED IF HE WASN'T HERE THEN THERE'D BE NOBODY TO SPEAK TO HIM.
NO, WE'RE, WE'RE, WE'RE COMING TO HIM.
[01:40:01]
NOT, UM, I EXACTLY SURE.BUT I, MY BELIEF IS SINCE WE HAVE MR. WINGARD HERE, WE, WE MAY NOT NEED MR. LUKE BRITTON ON HERE AS THE AGENT SINCE HE'S HERE TO ACT ON HIS OWN BEHALF.
UM, OTHER THAN THAT, I WOULD SAY THIS ONE AGAIN FALLS SQUARELY WITHIN WHAT THE BOARD HAS HEARD ABOUT ALL THE OTHERS.
THERE IS, UH, UH, THIS IS VERY SIMILAR TO THE PREVIOUS ONE.
THERE IS NO INDICATION OF WETLANDS.
IT SEEMED TO BE A VERY STABLE SITE.
AND, UM, VERY SIMILAR TO THE SITE, RIGHT TO THE RIGHT OF IT THAT THE BOARD JUST HEARD.
AND, UM, REALLY NOTHING MORE TO ADD.
AND, UH, I'D LIKE TO ASK IF ANYONE ELSE INVOLVED IN THIS JPA WOULD LIKE TO COME FORWARD AND SPEAK PLEASE? UH, THIS IS THE OWNER, MR. WINGARD.
UH, MAY I SWEAR YOU, UH, WOULD YOU, UH, GIVE YOUR NAME FOR THE RECORD PLEASE? WAYNE WINGARD.
DO YOU SWEAR FIRM OR SWEAR THAT YOU'LL TELL THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH IN ALL MATTERS BEFORE THIS BOARD? I DO.
FIRST THING IS, UH, THE, UH, BULKHEAD.
I HAVE PICTURES OF THE PRINTED BOLT'S.
WHAT? THAT'S WHAT WE ONE, SEE THERE'S ONE HERE.
YOU CAN FLIP IT TO THE OTHER ONE.
DOES IT NEED REPLACING? NO, BUT IT IS TIME.
I, I DO, UH, HERE, BACK BACK TO THE PODIUM PLEASE.
JUST A LITTLE TECHNICAL QUESTION I HAVE.
YOUR NEIGHBOR TO THE WEST, 'CAUSE YOU'RE AT A CORNER LOT.
DID HE, DID YOU TIED INTO HIS BULKHEAD AND WAS HE TWO FEET CHANNEL WORD BEFORE? YES, HE HAD A NEW BULKHEAD INSTALLED AND HE JUST, HE JUST PUT TWO, HE JUST PUT IT RIGHT TO IT AND THEY DID IT THE SAME TIME AS THEY DID MY NEXT DOOR NEIGHBOR.
DOES IT SIDE RISE AND FALL ON THE BULKHEAD? YES.
KNOW DETECTIVE WHEN I GAVE HER VOICE ON THE OTHER ONE.
AS A RULE SENIOR ONE, ALWAYS LOOK THE DATE BECAUSE THEY MAY CALL.
SO IT JUST LIKE THE REST OF THEM, JUST LIKE THE REST OF THEM.
UM, S MR. CHAIR, EXCUSE ME, SINCE YOU'RE STILL THERE, ARE YOU GOING TO MAINTAIN MR. LUKE BRITTON AS YOUR CONTRACTOR AT THIS MOMENT? FOR WHAT? THE BALL KID'S ALREADY THERE.
NO, I, I'M, I'M FOR ALL KIDS THERE.
IT'S NOT, NOT A RIDICULOUS QUESTION BECAUSE I'M WANT TO ASK ANOTHER QUESTION.
UH, MR. BRIT SENIOR SITTING RIGHT BESIDE YOU, OKAY.
YOU'VE TAKEN THIS OVER ALSO? YES.
WE'RE THEY THAT'S WHAT I WANT TO HEAR ALL AT ONE TIME.
THE TIEBACKS WILL BE EXPOSED, UH, FOR INSPECTION, RIGHT? THAT'S ALL.
UH, ANYBODY HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR THE OWNER? I GUESS WITHHOLD DUE RESPECT, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE MR. UH, UH, RAYMOND BRETTON DO IT.
DO WE NEED A, A ANOTHER? I GUESS ANOTHER, I DON'T KNOW.
I GUESS WE, I GUESS WE'RE GOING DOWN THE PATH OF ANOTHER NPN SO I GUESS WE DON'T REALLY NEED, BUT I JUST HE ALREADY SAID HE'S GONNA DO IT.
THIS MAN HAS NO OBJECTION TO IT.
SO HE'S GOING TO EXPOSE ALL OF THEM.
SO THE WEIGHT FALLS ON WHETHER YOU'D LIKE.
YOU GOT HIM WHETHER YOU WANT HIM OR NOT.
YOU CAN KNOCK HIM OUT IF HE'S ON YOUR PROPERTY.
UH, ANYONE ELSE? THANK YOU, SIR.
ANYONE ELSE WANNA SAY ANYTHING? ALRIGHT.
UM, ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FROM THE BOARD? COMMENTS? UH, IT'S, IT'S A DUPLICATE, SO WE'RE GOING BEATING IT TO DEATH, BUT, UH, WE'RE READY FOR AN AFTER THE FACT PERMIT FROM MR. BADGER.
UH, I MAKE A MOTION THAT THE COUNTY ISSUE A NPN OR NO PERMIT REQUIRED LETTER FROM THE WETLANDS BOARD.
EVERYBODY UNDERSTAND? ASK FOR A SECOND PLEASE.
AND THE, AND THE SWORN COMPLAINT BE VACATE VACATED.
UNANIMOUS, UH, WE'RE ALL FOUR ARE THE SAME.
UH, WE JUST FINISHED THESE FOUR GROUP, UH, UH, JPA AND VIOLATIONS.
I HAVE TO SAY I'M SPEAK STRAIGHTLY
[01:45:01]
THAT I FEEL A LITTLE BIT DISSATISFIED IN REGARDS TO HOW WE, UH, MAYBE THESE ARE FOUR AFTER THE FACT ITEMS THAT WERE DONE.AND I FEEL THAT MAYBE WE SHOULD HAVE BEEN MORE STRINGENT IN REGARDS TO MAKING SURE THAT SUCH THINGS DON'T OCCUR AGAIN.
RIGHT? IN REGARDS TO EITHER SOME SORT OF FINE OR VIOLATION OR WHATEVER IT MAY BE.
WE UNDERSTAND THAT VIOLATION, UH, HAS OCCURRED AND FINES, UH, AND RE UH, PERMITTING, BUT THAT'S NOT STRINGENT ENOUGH IN YOUR OPINION, RIGHT? BECAUSE IF IT WAS JUST ONE AFTER THE FACT, THEN I'D BE HAPPY WITH IT.
BUT WE HAVE FOUR, A SERIES OF FOUR AND I JUST FEEL THAT THIS, UH, I THINK MAYBE SOME PEOPLE IN THE AUDIENCE OR SOME PEOPLE ELSEWHERE WILL BE UNSATISFIED WITH THIS SITUATION.
I'D LIKE TO ASK SOME QUESTIONS.
FIRST OF ALL, PAUL, UH, THE QUESTION, EXCUSE ME FOR STEPPING ON YOUR TOES.
IF WE CHOOSE TO DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT THAN WHAT WE'VE DONE, UH, HOW DO WE GO ABOUT IT? HOW DO WE GET IT INTO THE CODE, UH, ET CETERA.
I, UH, CONSIDERING THE PROCEDURAL POSTURE OF THESE FOUR APPLICATIONS, I DO NOT KNOW IF THIS BOARD CAN DO ANYTHING.
SO, UH, MR BIN, I I I WILL SAY THIS.
UM, YOU KNOW, WHENEVER SOMEBODY DOES SOMETHING WITHOUT A PERMIT, UM, OUR, AT LEAST ONE OF OUR OPTIONS IS TO CALL DEPORT AND, AND SUBMIT IT TO THEM.
UM, AND HAVE THEM ADJUDICATED.
AND, AND WE DO THAT AS A RULE.
IF YOU DO SOMETHING EXPLICITLY WITHOUT A PERMIT, THAT GOES AUTOMATICALLY TO DEPORT BECAUSE THAT'S, THAT'S THEIR BUSINESS.
BUSINESS, THAT'S WHAT THEY DO.
AND I GUESS, IS THERE, I DON'T KNOW IF IT'D BE APPROPRIATE, IS THERE SOME WAY THAT WE CAN INSTRUCT STAFF OR VOTE TO HAVE STAFF TO GO INVESTIGATE OR GO AND MAKE THIS PETITION? IS THAT SOMETHING THAT WE, MAYBE I SHOULD SPEAK TO MR. PANED ABOUT? THIS WAS, IS THAT ON THE LEGITIMATE PATHWAY? 'CAUSE I HAVE A CONCERN ABOUT THIS TOO.
UM, YOUR, YOUR ONLY COMMENT IS, IS THAT, UH, IT GOES TO DEPO AND THEY CAN, IT ALREADY HAS.
ALRIGHT, SIR, WOULD YOU PLEASE EXCUSE ME, MR. PAMED, IS THERE ANYTHING YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT HE'S ASKING? MR. GICK SUGGESTS, UH, THIS IS RIDICULOUS AND I THINK WE ALL AGREE.
IF IT'S ONE OCCASIONALLY, THEN IT'S PART OF LIFE, BUT THIS IS INSANITY AND SOMETHING'S GOTTA BE DONE ABOUT IT.
COULD YOU PLEASE EDUCATE US ON WHERE WE MIGHT GO? YES, SIR.
IF YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT WRITING A, UH, WRITING SOME SORT OF PENALTY, THEN WE CAN CERTAINLY CHECK WITH, UH, WITH THE, UH, UM, COUNTY ATTORNEY YES.
ON WHAT THAT, WHAT THAT WOULD ENTAIL.
UM, UH, WHAT WE COULD DO IS WE COULD BRING BACK SOME, UH, SOME DISCUSSION POINTS TO YOU NEXT MONTH IN TERMS OF WHAT SPECIFICS YOU WOULD LIKE TO SEE IN A PROPOSED ORDINANCE AMENDMENT.
UH, BUT THAT KIND OF PENALTY OR ANY KIND OF PENALTY WOULD NEED TO BE WRITTEN INTO THE ORDINANCE.
WHEN THERE IS POSSIBLY THERE WOULD'VE BEEN A CIVIL PENALTY, UH, AND IT WAS BETWEEN FIVE AND $10,000 OR SOME SUCH THING.
UH, MIGHT WE LEAN ON YOU TO GO TO THE COUNTY ATTORNEY AND BRING BACK NEXT MONTH, UH, WHAT OUR OPTIONS MIGHT BE AND HOW DO WE GO BACK? YES, SIR.
IS THAT GOOD ENOUGH? YES, SIR.
UH, ACCORDING TO MS. BETH, SHE ALSO SAYS SHE PAID TWICE AS MUCH FOR THE, UH, THE JPA AND THE BILLING PERMIT'S GONNA BE TWICE AS MUCH TOO.
UM, IT'S NOT QUITE TWICE AS MUCH.
I, I DON'T, I MEAN, BUT IT'S MORE, I BELIEVE IT'S THREE, THE FEW HUNDRED DOLLARS IS NOT WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT, SIR.
IT'S, IT'S CLOSE TO WHAT TWICE THE, THE FEW HUNDRED DOLLARS IS NOT WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT.
I WANT TO KNOW IF OUR COUNTY ATTORNEY CAN SUGGEST WHAT WE MIGHT DO TO, UH, BECOME AUTHORIZED, UH, TO OFFER MORE PENALTY.
WE'LL, WE'LL DEFINITELY LOOK INTO IT AND GIVE YOU, THAT'S ALL.
YOU GIVE YOU A STAFF REPORT NEXT MONTH.
LIKE I SAY, AND I KNOW THAT, THAT WHEN YOU DO SOMETHING WRONG, THAT YOU DO GET DEPORTED DPOR.
AND HOW, I KNOW IT'S 'CAUSE WHEN I PAY MY, UH, CLASS A LICENSE, THE MORE THAT PEOPLE GET REPORTED AND MORE VIOLATIONS, THAT'S HOW MY LICENSE IS.
THAT THAT TWO YEARS, I THINK PEOPLE REALLY, UM, UNDERSTAND THE IMPORTANCE OF THOSE LICENSES.
[01:50:03]
CRAZY PENALTIES, I WOULD BE SURE THAT THEY'RE INTENTIONALLY VIOLATING STUFF.I HAVE PEOPLE CALL ME ALL THE TIME, THEY JUST DON'T KNOW.
YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? I I I'VE FILLED OUT APPLICATIONS FOR PEOPLE FOR, I JUST SAID TAKE, TAKE THE, UH, UH, I'VE DONE, I'VE DONE THE PERMIT FOR CAR COMPANY FREE.
I I'M NOT ALLOWED TO DO IT BECAUSE I'M ON THIS BOARD, BUT DONE IT FOR FREE AND THEY START GETTING LETTERS SUPPORT FROM THE ACCOUNT.
AND THEY GET ACCOUNT FROM D FROM FROM OTHER AGENCIES.
RIGHT? BUT WHAT I'M SAYING IS THEY, THERE'S A LOT OF, THERE'S IGNORANCE.
SO WE GOTTA DO SOMETHING LIKE YOU'RE SAYING, LIKE YOU'RE SAYING THOUGH, WE NEED AS MUCH AS ANYTHING LIKE YOU'RE DOING.
EDUCATION IS THE WAY WE NEED TO SPEND OUR MOST MONEY ON, AND YOU'RE DOING IT.
WE NEED TO DO, PEOPLE NEED TO BE EDUCATED AND, AND KNOW, LIKE I SAID, THAT WAY LOT OWNERS KNOW, RIGHT.
EDUCATION IS THE BIGGEST THING.
AND I, I THINK THAT, UH, THAT THE APPROACH TO THIS AS IT IS IN LIFE, YOU KNOW, WHERE YOU'VE GOT THE CARROT AND YOU'VE GOT THE STICK, THE CARROT BEING, WE'RE GOING TO INFORM, WE'RE GOING TO EDUCATE, WE'RE GOING TO LET PEOPLE KNOW JUST VERY TRANSPARENTLY WHAT, UH, WHAT THE EXPECTATIONS ARE.
UH, AGAIN, TRYING TO REDUCE THE AMOUNT OF SURPRISES, TRYING TO INCREASE CONSISTENCY AND INCREASE THE, UH, UM, YOU KNOW, ACCOUNTABILITY.
UH, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE ALL ABOUT.
AND, UM, YOU KNOW, WE, WE CERTAINLY WANT TO PAIR A, UH, A, A PUNITIVE RESPONSE OR A PUNITIVE OPTION I SHOULD SAY, WITH ONE THAT IF WE CAN ALL JUST, UH, YOU KNOW, IN THE IMMORTAL WORDS OF RODNEY KING, CAN WE ALL JUST GET ALONG AND CAN WE JUST GET THIS THROUGH THE RIGHT WAY? AGAIN, WE'RE NOT TRYING TO STOP PEOPLE FROM DOING WHAT THEY WANT TO DO, BUT THIS STUFF IS IMPORTANT AND IT CLEARLY HAS RAMIFICATIONS.
SO, UH, WHAT WE'LL DO FOR NEXT MONTH IS WE'LL BRING BACK, UH, WE'LL BRING BACK SOME TALKING POINTS, MAYBE GUIDE, MAYBE HELP THE, UH, GUIDE THE WETLANDS BOARD THROUGH A DISCUSSION ON WHAT IT WOULD LIKE TO SEE.
BUT WE'LL DEFINITELY CONSULT WITH THE COUNTY ATTORNEY ON THAT.
I THINK WE'RE VERY IGNORANT WHEN IT COMES TO THAT.
SO WE'RE GONNA LEAN ON YOU AND THE COUNTY ATTORNEY AND HOWEVER LONG IT TAKES, WE WANT TO BECOME INFORMED AND WE WANT TO KNOW IF WE HAVE, UH, ANY DISCRETION BEYOND JUST THE DOUBLE PERMIT FEE AND WHATEVER IT IS, 2, 3, 4, $500 IS NOT GONNA GET IT.
OUR BIGGEST PROBLEM IS IF IT'S NOT IN OUR JURISDICTION, WE DON'T HAVE A LOT OF SAY THAT'S, THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT WE WANT TO HEAR, BUT WE WANT TO KNOW IF IT'S OUT OF OUR JURISDICTION THAT COMES WITH THE JPA.
MR. CHAIR, JUST TO FOLLOW UP A LITTLE BIT ON THAT, I'D LIKE TO GET THE BOARD'S INDULGENCE.
I KNOW IT'S BEEN A LONG MEETING, BUT I JUST A MATTER CARRY ON.
I'D LIKE TO GET YOUR OPINION HERE.
IF YOU CAN COME UP AND, YOU KNOW, IS THERE ANYTHING THAT WE COULD HAVE DONE SOME SORT OF, AS WE TALKED ABOUT, UH, NOTIFICATION, SOME WEBSITE WHERE MAYBE SOMEHOW WE COULD HAVE PREVENTED THIS WITH GIVING OUT MORE EDUCATION.
IS THERE SOMETHING THAT SOMEWHERE SOMEHOW WE COULD HAVE BEEN BETTER IN COMMUNICATING IT WAS NEEDED FOR YOU TO DO THE JOB, BASICALLY? OR IS IT JUST YOU CONSIDER THIS AS A ONE OFF? IT WAS JUST A STRANGE, UNIQUE SITUATION AND IT JUST OCCURRED.
I THINK THIS IS A, UH, UNFORTUNATE SITUATION.
UM, YOU KNOW, I'VE NOT E I'VE NOT, I'VE NOT BEEN DOING IT 50 SOMETHING YEARS LIKE MR. BRITTON.
UM, NOT EVEN BEEN A YEAR YET, BUT MY PARTNER HAD BEEN, AND IT'S A FORTUNATE SITUATION THAT HE WAS PLACED IN THAT LEFT THE BALL IN, I GUESS IN MY LAP, ME TRYING TO KEEP THINGS AFLOAT WHILE HE WAS IN A BAD SITUATION.
PUT ME IN A BAD SPOT WITH ALL THIS.
I EMPLOY SIX PEOPLE IN MACK COUNTY RIGHT NOW, SIX OF 'EM THAT LIVE HERE.
I MYSELF HAVE PROPERTY IN MACK.
BUT THE HARDSHIP RIGHT NOW, WE COULDN'T, WE HAVEN'T EVEN BEEN ABLE TO PAY OUR RENT THAT WE LEASE A BUILDING FROM A, A, A LADY IN NEW CHURCH.
AND WE, WE'VE NOT BEEN ABLE TO PAY OUR RENT BECAUSE WE DID PAY $3,200 OUT FOR ALL THESE FOUR JOBS.
SO IT HAS CREATED A HARDSHIP FORCE.
IF YOU, IF IF SOMEBODY HAD INSTILLED A, YOU KNOW, FINES ON US, IT WOULD BE THE DEATH OF US.
I MEAN, WE WOULD BE, WE'D BE OUT OF VIRGINIA.
I WOULD BE, UM, I GO BACK, YOU KNOW, MARYLAND, WHEREVER, WHERE, YOU KNOW, WHERE I COME FROM.
SO, UM, SO I HAVE BEEN DRUG THROUGH THE MUD AND I HAVE EXPERIENCED THE HARDSHIP.
AND LIKE I SAID, WE HAVEN'T EVEN PAID OUR RENT IN NEW CHURCH.
I GET, UH, I UNDERSTAND AND WE FEEL YOUR PAIN OR AT LEAST A PORTION OF IT.
BUT, UH, I THINK THE QUESTION MIGHT HAVE BEEN WHAT COULD WE HAVE DONE IF YOU HAD IMMEDIATELY GONE TO THE ENVIRONMENTAL OFFICE AND, UM,
[01:55:01]
ASKED THE QUESTIONS OF WHAT'S BEEN DONE, WHAT HASN'T BEEN DONE, WHAT YOU SHOULD HAVE DONE AS AFTER LUKE'S DOWNFALL, UH, WOULD THAT HAVE HELPED YOU? NOT FINANCIALLY, WOULD THAT HAVE HELPED YOU WITH THE TIMING TO GET THE YES, ABSOLUTELY.I MEAN, THAT'S WHAT I SHOULD HAVE DONE.
TOOK IT UPON MY SELF RESPONSIBILITY.
I SHOULD HAVE, THAT WOULD'VE COST YOU NOTHING.
AND I SHOULD HAVE FOLLOWED IT UP AND, AND, AND I APOLOGIZE.
AND I SHOULD HAVE WENT IN THERE AND TALKED TO MR. WE'RE NOT HERE TO HEAR, WE DON'T WANT TO HEAR THE APOLOGIES.
UH, SO IF IT EVER HAPPENS AGAIN AND YOU HIRE SOMEONE OR GO SEE SOMEONE, IT MIGHT HELP THE NEXT PERSON GET PAID FASTER SO YOU CAN PAY YOUR RENT SO YOU CAN GET EVERYTHING GOING LIKE IT IS.
RIGHT? UH, WE'RE ASKING FOR EDUCATION FROM YOU.
WELL, LIKE I SAID, I'VE NOT BEEN IN IT A YEAR YET, YOU KNOW, DOWN HERE.
SO I DON'T KNOW THE PROCEDURE, HOW YOU MANEUVER AND HOW, I DON'T KNOW HOW, HOW TO SAY, HOW TO SAY I WOULD BE THERE.
FAIR QUESTION, FAIR ANSWER IN MY OPINION.
GOT ANY MORE QUESTIONS FOR THIS GENTLEMAN? NOT FOR HIM, BUT I JUST HAVE A GENERAL THING.
I'M TRYING TO THINK OF WHAT ELSE WE COULD DO SO THAT PEOPLE BE EDUCATED AND UNDER, OH, EXCUSE ME.
UH, YOU UNDERSTAND THE QUESTION JUST TO THE RUM.
I HOLD A MASTER H-V-A-C-R LICENSE FOR VIRGINIA DPOR.
I HAVE DONE PERMITTING FOR THEM, UH, FOR THE HVAC PROGRAMS. I AM LOOKING AT DOING A GAS FIREPLACE INSTALLATION AT MY HOUSE RIGHT NOW.
I WENT THROUGH THE COUNTY WEBSITE OF ACK COUNTY TO LOOK AT THE PERMITS.
I SPENT THREE HOURS SCROLLING THROUGH THAT WEBSITE.
I STILL DON'T HAVE A CLEAR UNDERSTANDING WHAT I NEED TO DO OR NOT TO DO TO GET A PERMIT.
YOU'RE NOT THE ONLY ONE RUNNING MY FRIEND.
SO, IN ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION, UM, IT IS VERY CUMBERSOME TO WORK THROUGH THAT WEBSITE TO GET DIRECTION.
ACTUALLY, AFTER THIS MEETING, I'M GOING TO BE GOING TO, UM, SUBMIT, TRYING TO FIND SOMEBODY TO TALK TO, TO FIND OUT THE DIRECTION I NEED TO TAKE.
I THINK WITH YOUR EXPERIENCE, YOU'LL AGREE WITH THIS, THAT THAT'S NOT GOING TO CHANGE.
UH, I DON'T, UNFORTUNATELY YOU ARE CORRECT.
HE'S, HE'S BEEN DOING IT YEAR, FOUR YEARS AND YEARS.
AND UNFORTUNATELY YOU NEED TO RELY ON INDIVIDUALS, HAVE THE TENURE THAT HE HAS IN ORDER TO MOVE THROUGH AND GET THAT CLARIFIED.
WELL, WE HOPE THAT, UH, YOU WILL EDUCATE US IF YOU EVER GET TO THAT POINT.
UM, WE, WE ARE LOOKING TO MAKE IT AS SIMPLE AS POSSIBLE SO THAT THIS NEVER HAPPENS AGAIN.
UH, SO IN RETROSPECT TO MR. BROWN, UM, YOU KNOW, WITH HIM BEING IN THIS COUNTY FOR A YEAR, I COULD SEE HIS CUMBERSOME PROBLEMS TO TRY AND FIND OUT WHAT HE ACTUALLY TRULY NEEDED TO DO MOVING FORWARD.
ANYONE ELSE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? HOLD ON, PLEASE.
UM, MR. PAMED, UH, LEE, PAM, A DEPUTY COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR.
UH, THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS HAS ADOPTED ITS BUDGET AND AS PART OF THAT THERE, UH, WE DID COORDINATE WITH IT ON GETTING MORE MONEY TO ACTUALLY REVAMP THE ENTIRE COUNTY WEBSITE.
NOW, EVEN IN ADVANCE OF THAT, I HAD ASKED OUR, OUR THREE ADMINISTRATIVE ASSISTANTS TO TAKE A LOOK AT WAYS WE COULD IMPROVE THAT WEBSITE.
UH, BUT IF THERE ARE INDIVIDUAL CHANGES THAT WE CAN MAKE, WE'LL CERTAINLY SEEK THOSE OUT OUT.
BUT MY POINT HERE IS THAT THE COUNTY WEBSITE OVERALL, ESPECIALLY COMMUNITY AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, IS DUE FOR A REDESIGN.
AND THE, THE, THE SHORTCOMINGS OF THAT WEBSITE OR OUR WEBSITE, IT'S, IT'S INCREDIBLY EXTENSIVE.
WE CAN DEFINITELY STREAMLINE THAT TO THE ADVANTAGE OF GETTING COMMUNICATION, GETTING THE INFORMATION OUT THERE BETTER.
THAT WOULD BE A FABULOUS START.
UM, AND WE HOPE THAT IT'S DONE, IT'S DONE BY THE RIGHT IT PEOPLE AND BECOMES AS SIMPLE AS POSSIBLE.
UH, I WILL TELL YOU SOMETHING, I GO THIS THROUGH THESE THINGS FOR HOURS AND I CAN TELL YOU HOW TO GROW A GREEN TOMATO, RIGHT? BUT, UH, IT IS DIFFICULT FOR ME SOMETIMES AND I HAVE TO READ IT AND REREAD IT AND CALL THIS MAN, CALL EVERYONE ELSE BEFORE I FINALLY GET A GRASP.
SO ANY HELP, UH, I THINK THE BOS WILL TELL YOU THE SAME THING.
UM, I TALKED TO SOME OF THEM BY THE WAY, AND NOT, NOT OFF THE RECORD, THEY SCRATCHED THEIR HEADS LIKE I DO.
WHAT I WILL SAY IS THAT IT, IT COSTS VERY LITTLE TO DO DUE DILIGENCE AND, YOU KNOW, CONTRACTORS, REAL ESTATE AGENTS, SURVEYORS, ENGINEERS, ARCHITECTS, IF ANY OF 'EM HAVE QUESTIONS THAT
[02:00:01]
THEY CAN'T FIND ON THE WEBSITE, THEN GIVE US A CALL.YOU KNOW, WE WANT TO BE RESPONSIVE IN THAT, RIGHT? AGAIN, TO MAKE SURE THAT THE PROCESSES ARE BEING DONE ARE, ARE BEING FOLLOWED.
BUT THEN ALSO, UH, YOU KNOW, TO PROBABLY, YOU KNOW, HOPEFULLY SHAKE OUT SOME HIGH LEVEL ISSUES IN ADVANCE.
BUT PLEASE, YOU KNOW, LET'S NOT ASSUME THAT, OH, YOU DON'T NEED THIS PERMIT, OR YOU DON'T NEED TO TALK TO THAT PERSON BEFORE YOU DO BUSINESS OR BEFORE YOU DO CONSTRUCTION.
HERE IN AKIMA COUNTY, WE ARE NO DIFFERENT THAN ANY OTHER LOCALITY IN VIRGINIA WHERE WE REQUIRE PERMITS AND WE'VE GOT PROCESSES.
SO AGAIN, UH, YOU KNOW, WE'RE, WE'RE TRYING TO HOLD EVERYBODY ACCOUNTABLE.
WE'RE HOLDING OURSELVES ACCOUNTABLE FOR THAT.
BUT, UH, UM, I THINK THAT, UH, THIS WOULD BE A REALLY GOOD LEARNING LESSON FOR EVERYBODY INVOLVED.
THAT DUE DILIGENCE AND, AND JUST PICKING UP THE PHONE AND CALLING US OR COME TO SEE US.
WE'LL, UH, WE'LL HOPEFULLY ELIMINATE THREE OUT OF THE FOUR SURPRISES THAT MIGHT COME UP DURING A PROS OR DURING A PERMIT.
I WISH THAT EVERY, UH, CONTRACTOR IN THIS COUNTY, UH, WILL PLAY THIS BACK AS I DO AND LISTENED TO JUST WHAT YOU JUST SAID AND CALL.
THEY'VE BEEN, SOME OF 'EM, UH, BEEN AROUND LONG ENOUGH.
BOARDS CHANGED, RIGHT? UH, SO JUST CALL PLEASE AND THIS WILL MAKE OUR LIVES A LOT EASIER.
UH, MR. WATSON, ANY COMMENTS? I WOULD JUST ADD THAT WE HAVE TWO FULL-TIME PERMIT SPECIALISTS WHO ANSWER THE PHONE ALL DAY LONG, AND I DARE SAY THEY DON'T RETURN EVERY CALL WITHIN A FEW HOURS.
I'VE NEVER HEARD A COMPLAINT THAT THEY HAVEN'T RETURNED A CALL.
UM, SO WE ARE AVAILABLE FOR ANY QUESTIONS, 9, 8 30 TO FIVE, FIVE DAYS A WEEK.
AND, UM, AND IN THIS CASE, WE HAVE SOMEBODY WHO DIDN'T HAVE ONE PIECE OF PAPER, NEVER CALLED US, NEVER CALLED IT AN INSPECTION.
I MEAN, THERE WAS NO UNIQUE EFFORT MADE TO COMPLY.
AND, UM, IT, IT, YOU KNOW, IT IS WHAT IT IS.
IT, IT, I MEAN, THIS IS UNIQUE, PARTICULARLY WHAT WE'RE GETTING READY TO GO THROUGH NEXT.
BUT I THINK WHAT MR. GICK IS SAYING, JUST YOU'VE GOT TWO PEOPLE.
AND WHEN, MY QUESTION, UH, WHEN THEY START THE JPA, ARE THEY AWARE? HERE'S A PHONE NUMBER, WE GOT TWO PEOPLE TO ANSWER ANY QUESTION YOU WANT, JUST CALL US.
WELL, UM, WE ARE OBVI, WE WE'RE NOT INVOLVED IN THE JPA PROCESS AT ALL.
THAT WOULD BE A-V-M-R-C FUNCTION.
UM, SO, UM, YOU KNOW, I I WILL TELL YOU, I DON'T KNOW IF I'VE EVER GOTTEN A CALL FROM SOMEBODY AS TO HOW TO FILL OUT A JPA AND, AND IF I DID, UM, I, I WOULD REFER THEM OVER TO VMRC.
UM, AND, AND SO, I MEAN, ONCE THEY GET TO THE BUILDING PERMIT ZONING, OBVIOUSLY WE HANDLE THAT.
AND MAYBE I SHOULD HAVE, UH, SAID THAT AS OPPOSED TO JPA AND I UNDERSTAND THAT THEY HAVE OPEN LINES.
UH, AND I'M SPEAKING FOR YOU, MA'AM.
UH, YOU CERTAINLY HAVE PEOPLE AVAILABLE TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS TO GET 'EM TO THIS POINT.
UM, I WOULD SAY SOMETHING BAD FOR THE CONTRACTOR.
WELL, THE COUNTY HAS JUST TOLD US NOW THAT WE HAVE TO GET PERMITS, INSTALL BOTH OF THEM.
BUT WHEN I FIRST STARTED THIS BACK IN, IN THE EIGHTIES, CHUCK POWELL WAS THE ADMINISTRATOR HERE.
I WENT TO POWELL, HAD A CUSTOMER, SAID, YOU PERMIT, I SAID, I WENT TO CHUCK, CHUCK, DO I NEED TO GET A BILL PERMIT? WHAT THIS
HE SAID, IT AIN'T NO DIFFERENT EXACT WORDS.
HOW MANY YEARS AGO WAS THAT, SIR? THE EIGHTIES.
UH, DO YOU KNOW, DO YOU KNOW WHAT? UM, INTO A PROBLEM.
IF YOU PUT A SWING SET IN YOUR BACKYARD, YOU DON'T CALL ME FOR A BUILDING PERMIT.
IT'S THE SAME THING AS AN ADULT SWING SET.
YOU KNOW WHAT THE EPA DID TO ME AFTER 40 YEARS AT BIRD FOOD, SIR, DOESN'T BE TOO BET YOUR LIFE.
UM, I, I WILL SAY THAT WE DID COME ACROSS THE BOAT LIFT ISSUE WHERE CONTRACTORS WERE DRIVING PILES INTO STATE OWNED BOTTOM TO PUT IN BOAT LIFTS, UH, A FEW WEEKS AGO.
AND WE FOUND THE ISSUE TO BE WIDESPREAD ACROSS THE COUNTY.
SO, UM, UH, MS. GORMAN SENT AN EMAIL OUT ADVISING ALL OF THE KNOWN CONTRACTORS THAT IT DID REQUIRE A JPA.
IF YOU'RE GONNA BE DRIVING PIERS INTO THE BOTTOM OR WETLANDS OR WHEREVER, JUST LIKE AN OPEN PILE PIER, IT REQUIRES A JPA PERMIT.
OKAY? UM, AT, AT FIRST, I, I WAS FRUSTRATED THAT CERTAIN CONTRACTORS WEREN'T GETTING 'EM, BUT WITHIN A COUPLE DAYS I REALIZED CONTRACTORS FROM THE ENTIRETY OF THE COUNTY WERE NOT DOING IT AND REALIZED IT WAS PROBABLY SOMETHING THAT WAS SET A LONG TIME AGO.
AND SO WE JUST SENT OUT AN INFORMATIONAL, OR MS. GORMAN SENT OUT AN INFORMATIONAL EMAIL, AND WE'RE TRYING TO GET THE WORD OUT.
[02:05:01]
EVERYBODY IS IN COMPLIANCE NOW, AND I'M ASSUMING, AND I'M SPEAKING FOR THESE GENTLEMEN, UNTIL THE WORD IS OUT, UNTIL THERE BECOMES A DEFINITE TIME, UH, WE WILL, UH, TELL YOU, UH, AND NOT, UH, SAY THERE'S AN ISSUE.WELL, WE, I MEAN, I'VE, I GUESS THE, A PHILOSOPHY IS, UM, YOU KNOW, WE'RE, WE'RE ASSUME EVERYBODY'S ACTING WITH GOOD INTENTIONS UNTIL THEY DEMONSTRATE THAT NOT THAT IS ABSOLUTELY CORRECT.
AND THAT'S THE WAY I, I SPEAK FOR THIS BOARD.
I THINK THAT WE ALL AGREE WITH THAT.
DO FIVE, UH, YEAH, WE'RE GONNA TAKE A FIVE MINUTE RECESS.
THANK YOU FOLKS VERY MUCH FOR LETTING US GO TO THE HEAD.
WE'RE GONNA MOVE ON TO NUMBER FIVE O BUSINESS, AND WE'RE GONNA START WITH, UH, JPA 2 0 2 5 0 5 5 7.
WE'VE ALREADY BEEN THROUGH MOST OF THIS, UM, FOR MR. ROSETTI.
SO, UH, I WOULD LIKE MR. WATSON TO TELL US FROM THIS POINT ON, FOR OLD BUSINESS, WHICH I, I WOULD, I WOULD SAY THIS ONE AND THE NEXT THREE HAVE BEEN RESOLVED BY THE BOARD'S MOTION.
SO I THINK WE CAN DISPOSE OF ALL FOUR OF THOSE.
AND, AND, UH, DO WE DISPOSE 'EM BY, BY YOU SAYING IT ON MIKE, OR DO WE GO THROUGH, UH, EACH JPA AND I IBEL? I MEAN, MY UNDER, I MEAN, MY UNDERSTANDING WOULD BE IS THAT THE PREVIOUS MOTION HAS ALREADY DISPOSED OF IT.
LET'S, LET'S DO THIS, IF YOU DON'T MIND.
UH, JPA, UH, TWO ZERO, UH, 2 5 0 5 5 7.
MR. ROSETTI, IS IT RESOLVED? IT IS.
MR. COX, IS IT RESOLVED? IT IS 2 0 2 5 0 6 0 8.
MR. WINGATE, IS IT RESOLVED? IT IS, UM, 2 0 2 5 0 6 0 9.
UM, THE, WE HAVE MR. UH, POLOWSKI.
I THINK THAT IS SOMETHING DIFFERENT.
IS IT NOT? IT IS, UH, MR. P THAT IS, EXCUSE ME.
THAT IS, UH, JPA 2 0 2 3 DASH 1659.
UH, THIS IS A PROJECT THAT WAS PERMITTED A FEW YEARS AGO.
I THINK IT WAS QUITE AN INVOLVED PROCESS.
I REMEMBER HE HAS A LOT THAT FRONTS SHIITE BAY, THAT'S IN A PRETTY GOOD AMOUNT OF JEOPARDY.
UM, AND THIS, HE ACTUALLY HAS TWO LOTS, THE LOT HIS HOUSE IS ON, AND THIS IS THE LOT TO THE LEFT AT THE END OF THE STREET.
HERE'S THE AERIAL OF THAT PARTICULAR LOT.
AND HERE IS, UH, YEAH, WE REMEMBERED A LITTLE MORE INFORMATION ABOUT THE PROPERTY AND THE NEIGHBORS FROM THE ORIGINAL APPLICATION.
AND HERE IS WHAT WAS ULTIMATELY PERMITTED.
UH, THE BREAKWATER HAS BEEN INSTALLED, UM, AND THE ISSUE IS WHERE YOU SEE EDGE OF MARSH AND THAT, UH, ARROW, UH, ROCK WAS STORED IN THAT AREA ON THE MARSH.
AND I'M GONNA SHOW YOU A SERIES OF PHOTOS.
UH, THESE FIRST PHOTOS WERE TAKEN BY MS. CORMAN BACK IN 2023 WHEN THE ORIGINAL PERMITTING WAS DONE, JUST TO SHOW THE MARSH.
AND UM, AS YOU CAN SEE, IT WAS A PRETTY HEALTHY MARSH THERE.
UM, THIS AREA THAT YOU'RE LOOKING AT RIGHT NOW, UM, APPEARED TO BE CUT WHEN I WAS THERE IN MARCH, UM, MORE RECENTLY WHEN I WAS THERE, UH, LAST WEEK AND AGAIN YESTERDAY.
THAT AREA SEEMS TO BE RECOVERING VERY WELL.
DOESN'T QUITE LOOK AS GOOD AS THAT, BUT IS RECOVERING.
WELL, AND I'LL SHOW YOU THOSE PICTURES IN A MINUTE.
BUT JUST TO GIVE YOU SOME PERSPECTIVE OF WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT NOW AND WHAT WE'RE GONNA BE LOOKING AT IN A FEW MINUTES, HERE ARE SOME MORE PICTURES, UH, FROM, UH, THE AUGUST 10TH, 2023 WHEN THE FIRST, UH, JUST BEFORE THE, THE, THE PERMIT WAS, UH, ISSUED OR WHEN IT WAS APPLIED FOR AT LEAST, IT TOOK A WHILE FOR IT TO BE ISSUED.
AND HERE YOU CAN SEE KIND OF, UH, PRETTY MUCH THE ENTIRETY OF THE MARSH.
THE LEFT IS THE END OF THAT STREET.
UH, DEAD ENDS RIGHT THERE, CUL-DE-SAC.
UM, HERE'S ANOTHER PICTURE AGAIN FROM 2023 SHOWING THAT MARSH.
SO, AND ON MARCH, HERE'S MAYBE THE LAST ONE.
AND MARCH 17TH, 2025 HERE WAS THE ROCK BEING STORED ON TOP OF WHAT THE MARSH YOU JUST SAW A MINUTE AGO.
UH, THE ROCKS IN THE FOREGROUND WOULD BE THE END OF THE CUL-DE-SAC.
AND, UM, THERE WAS OB OBVIOUSLY MARSH, WHERE THOSE ROCKS WERE.
[02:10:01]
THE LEFT IS WHERE IT APPEARS THE MARSH WAS CUT OR IN SOME WAY DEGRADED.UM, SO THE NEXT FEW PICTURES ARE ALL FROM MARCH OF, UH, 2025 WHEN THE FIRST SITE VISIT WAS DONE.
UM, THIS IS ACTUALLY UP THE STAIRS OF THE HOUSE LOOKING STRAIGHT DOWN ON THAT MARSHY OR WHAT, WHAT HAD BEEN MARSH
AND THEN THESE ARE FROM MAY 12TH, UH, OBVIOUSLY JUST A WEEK OR SO AGO.
AND IT SHOWS, UH, THE ROCK HAS BEEN REMOVED, HAS, I ASSUME BEEN PULLED BACK ON AT THE END OF THE CUL-DE-SAC OUT OF THE WETLAND BOARD JURISDICTION.
UM, AND WHILE THE LARGE ROCK HAS BEEN ALTOGETHER REMOVED, THERE STILL IS A FAIR AMOUNT OF GRAVEL THAT SEEMS TO BE IMPEDING THE GROWTHS OF, OF ANY TYPE OF GRASS THERE.
HERE'S ANOTHER VIEW OF MAYBE, UH, ABOUT HALF OF THE AREA.
AND YOU CAN SEE WHERE THERE'S QUITE A HEAVY AMOUNT OF GRAVEL IN SOME SPOTS THAT WOULD COMPLETELY, PROBABLY, ALMOST COMPLETELY, UH, PROHIBIT ANY TYPE OF GROWTH.
AND THIS IS KIND OF MOVING AWAY FROM THE HOUSE, UH, OVER TO THE NORTHERN SIDE OF THAT PARCEL.
THIS IS THE PART WHERE, UH, THE GRAVEL, WELL, THERE WASN'T ANY GRAVEL, I GUESS OVER TO THE LEFT SIDE THAT WAS JUST THE CUT PORTION.
AND THAT APPEARS OBVIOUSLY TO BE RECOVERING PRETTY WELL FROM THE MARCH VISIT.
HERE'S ANOTHER VIEW OF THE NORTHERN SIDE OF THAT PARCEL WHERE THE RECOVERY LOOKS A LOT BETTER.
IT APPEARS AS IF THAT LITTLE GRAVEL PATH MIGHT HAVE BEEN A WALKING PATH OR SOMETHING THAT, THAT WAS DAMAGED DURING THE CONSTRUCTION.
SO I THINK THIS PROBABLY BEST SHOWS WHAT IT LOOKED LIKE DURING THE MARCH VISIT.
SO, UM, MR. PULASKI IS NOT HERE TODAY.
UM, HE DID INDICATE IN AN EMAIL THAT HE WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO BE HERE AT THE SITE VISIT.
HE TOLD ME THAT HE WAS NOT GOING TO COME TO ANY MORE WETLANDS BOARD MEETINGS.
AND UH, I ADVISED HIM THAT THE PURPOSE OF THIS PROJECT OBVIOUSLY WAS TO PROTECT HIS HOUSE AND PROTECT HIS MARSH.
AND THAT AT LEAST ONE POSSIBILITY, OR AT LEAST ONE THING THE BOARD COULD DO WOULD ORDER HIM TO RESTORE THE MARSH, WHICH I THOUGHT HE WANTED TO DO ANYWAY.
AND SO IT SEEMED TO ME THAT HE HAD A PRETTY DECENT PATH FORWARD.
UM, BUT HE TOLD ME HE WAS NOT GONNA APPEAR TODAY.
AND WHEN HE SENT ME THE EMAIL, I RESPONDED THAT I WOULD BE HAPPY TO ASK FOR A CONTINUANCE IF HE WANTED ME TO.
UM, AND HE DID NOT RESPOND TO THAT EMAIL
UM, SO IT'S A LITTLE HARD TO GIVE A PRECISE NUMBER FOR THE SQUARE FEET OF MARSH THAT IS NOT THERE, OR GRASSES THAT IS NOT THERE THAT WAS THERE BEFORE BECAUSE IT'S A VERY KIND OF SPLOTCHY, UH, ENVIRONMENT.
THERE YOU HAVE, YOU KNOW, GRASS GROWING THROUGH THE GRAVEL, YOU HAVE BARE SPOTS AND THEN YOU HAVE SPOTS THAT APPEAR TO BE COMING BACK PRETTY NICELY.
UM, ANOTHER ASPECT OF THIS IS THAT MR. PULASKI ADVISED ME THAT BETWEEN MS. GORMAN'S PICTURES IN 2023 AND THE BEGINNING OF THIS PROJECT, THAT THE MARSH HAD DEGRADED SOMEWHAT AND THAT'S CERTAINLY BELIEVABLE AND PROBABLE.
I ASKED HIM SEVERAL TIMES TO FORWARD ME PICTURES.
HE TOLD ME HE HAD PICTURES SHOWING WHAT IT LOOKED LIKE JUST BEFORE THIS CONSTRUCTION STARTED, BUT HE NEVER SENT ME ANY PICTURES, PROVIDED ME WITH ANY PICTURES OF WHAT IT LOOKED LIKE JUST BEFORE CONSTRUCTION.
SO THIS IS ALL, WE HAVE THE 2023 PICTURES AND THEN FORWARD TO THE SITE VISIT ON MARCH OF 2025.
CAN, CAN YOU SHOW A PICTURE OF UH, WHAT SHE SAID POSSIBLY WAS MOVED? OKAY, LET'S SEE.
SO THIS SECTION OVER TO THE LEFT, UH, IT JUST LOOKS VERY, UH, WELL THAT'S AUGUST, THAT'S WHAT IT LOOKED LIKE IN AUGUST OF 2023.
AND IT, IT APPEARED TO BE CUT, RUN OVER.
IT APPEARED TO BE MOSTLY MUD AND JUST KIND OF REEDS POKING OUT OF THE MUD AS OPPOSED TO GRASS.
AND, AND THERE YOU COULD SEE AGAIN.
[02:15:01]
IF YOU WOULD COMPARE THIS ON MARCH 17TH, 2025, AND THEN YOU COULD SEE HOW IT'S, LET'S SEE, THAT'S, UH, TWO MONTHS LATER.IT'S LOOKING LIKE THE NEIGHBOR'S MARSH THAT HAS BEEN UNDISTURBED WHILE JUST A FEW MONTHS BEFORE IT WAS ALMOST ALL MUD WHERE YOU'RE LOOKING RIGHT NOW, RIGHT IN FRONT OF US, LIKE, LOOKS LIKE A, A BUCKET.
THERE WAS, THERE WAS SOME MACHINERY, LIKE A LAWNMOWER AND UH, THAT MIGHT HAVE BEEN AN ATTACHMENT FOR THE MOWER.
BUT RIGHT IN FRONT OF THAT, THAT IS NEW GROWTH.
YOU THINK THAT IS NEW GROWTH BECAUSE YOU CAN COMPARE THIS PICTURE WITH OKAY, THIS PICTURE AND THE LOWER LEFT HAND CORNER WOULD BE APPROXIMATELY THE SAME SPOT.
IF HE'S SUGGESTED HE'S NOT COMING TO ANY MORE WETLANDS, UH, MEETINGS, HE'S THROWN HIS HANDS UP, IT SOUNDS LIKE TO ME.
DO WE STILL NEED A CONTINUANCE FOR SOMEONE TO MEASURE UP NOW WHAT THE GOOD LORD'S TAKEN AWAY WE CAN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT, BUT, UH, DO, DO WE NEED TO KNOW HOW MUCH SQUARE FOOTAGE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT? WELL, WHEN I SAID IT WAS DIFFICULT, I MEAN IT'S, I I I DID MAKE A, A MEASUREMENT AS BEST I COULD AND CAME UP WITH ABOUT 110 SQUARE FEET RIGHT.
OF LOOKING AT THE PORTIONS THAT WERE GRAVEL, THE PORTIONS THAT WERE BARE.
UM, AND CAN WE ASSUME THAT IS AS CLOSE AS WE'RE GONNA GET? I, I BELIEVE SO.
UM, I, I WAS HOPEFUL THAT HE WOULD APPEAR TODAY AND WE COULD TALK ABOUT A RESTORATION ORDER, BUT IF HE'S NOT, SOUNDS LIKE HE DOESN'T CARE.
BUT IF HE DOESN'T WANT TO DO THAT, THEN I, I I MEAN IF HE'S NOT HERE TO DO TO, TO APPEAR AND DISCUSS IT, IT DOESN'T SEEM VERY HOPEFUL THAT THAT'S GONNA BE A SUCCESSFUL ENTERPRISE.
AND HIS COMMENT TO YOU WAS, I'M NOT COMING TO ANY MORE WETLANDS MEETINGS.
DID HE SAY THAT? HE DID SAY THAT.
UH, SO HE WAS, WELL I'LL JUST SAY HE WAS VERY FRUSTRATED WITH THE FIRST PROCESS.
I, I, I DON'T THINK HE, AND, AND THE BOARD HAS A, A LETTER THAT I INCLUDED IN THE PACKET FROM HIM.
I, I, I DO NOT BELIEVE HE HAS AN UNDERSTANDING OF THE PROCESSES OF THIS BOARD'S RESPONSIBILITY, VM C'S RESPONSIBILITY, HIS AGENT'S RESPONSIBILITY IN THE FIRST PLACE.
HE SEEMED TO THINK EVERYBODY WAS, UH, WORKING AGAINST HIM THE ENTIRE FIRST TIME HE WAS HERE AS OPPOSED TO TRYING TO HELP HIM.
NOW HIS HOUSE IS THE ONE ON THE ON IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT THIS PICTURE TO THE RIGHT.
UH, OKAY, THAT'S THE, THAT'S THE DOCK AND THE STEPS TO HIS HOUSE AND DOCK WAS
CAN CAN YOU EXPLAIN? OH, ACTUALLY YOU'RE RIGHT.
THIS ACTUALLY IS NOT A GOOD PICTURE.
THAT'S THE OTHER SIDE OF HIS HOUSE.
I I ACTUALLY HAD THAT MIXED UP.
BUT HERE IS HIS EXISTING DWELLING AND THE EDGE OF MARSH IS THE MARSH WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THERE.
WHAT IS, I SEE THIS LOW PROFILE BERM.
THAT WAS ADD I BELIEVE THAT WAS, THIS WAS THE LAST REVISION THAT I FOUND.
AND THIS WAS ADDED TO THAT REVISION, THAT LOW PRO PROFILE BERM WAS OUTSIDE OF THE JURISDICTION OF THE WETLANDS BOARD.
IT WAS ABOVE, UH, MEAN HIGH, ONE AND A HALF MEAN HIGH.
UM, AND IT'S AT THE EDGE OF THAT PARKING LOT.
SO, UH, YOU CAN SEE, UM, LET'S SEE, THAT WOULD BE RIGHT AT THE BACK END OF THAT JET SKI.
AND IF I GO FORWARD, I THINK TO THE MOST RECENT PICTURES, I DON'T KNOW IF IT WOULD, YOU CAN SEE THE ROCKS THERE.
THAT WOULD BE THE BERM THAT WAS BUILT ABOVE ONE, ONE AND A HALF MEAN HIGH.
DID HIS NEIGHBOR PLANT GRASS? I, I I CAN SAY LOOKING AT HISTORICAL AERIALS, THAT BULKHEAD OF HIS NEIGHBOR'S GRASS HAS BEEN THERE FOR QUITE SOME TIME.
AND THAT MARSH HAS BEEN THERE, I BELIEVE DATING ALL THE WAY BACK TO 2002.
OUR HISTORICAL AERIAL SHOWED THAT GRASS THERE.
NOW THE ORIGINAL AUGUST, UH, WAS, UH, PEYTON'S ON THERE IS, THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING, AUGUST ON THE, ON THE, OUR, THE EXISTING, UH, THE, THE LOT IN QUESTION AUGUST.
WITH THE PS THAT'S, SO THE PEYTONS NOW THE YOUNGEST YOUNGEST OF THIS, UH, UH, IS, IS THAT STILL WHAT'S COMING IN THERE? IS THAT PEYTON'S? I CAN'T TELL BECAUSE IT'S NOT ADULT USUALLY UP THIS, THIS HIGH.
THAT SHOULD BE PEYTON'S PEYTON'S.
THEY GOING, THEY GOT HEALTHY ON THAT SIDED.
I SEEN ONE PICTURE THAT WASN'T HEALTHY OVER THERE.
THEY, THAT'S HEALTHY OVER THERE.
I THAT'S MARTINA THERE MARTIN, I WOULD SAY IF YOU LOOK BACK AT THE 2023 PICTURES, UM, THE LOT OVER TO THE LEFT AND THIS LOT HAD VERY SIMILAR HEALTHY LOOKING GRASS.
UM, I I I DON'T KNOW THAT THAT
[02:20:01]
ACTUALLY LOOKS LIKE SPARTINA.THERE MUST SPORT PAINTS SPORT OFF THE YEAH.
UM, IS THAT WHERE THE ROCKS, YOU THINK IT'S OFF TO THE FOR LOOKS HIGH WHERE THAT GR GR GRASS IS, IS THAT WHERE THEY DUMP THE BIG ROCKS AND UH, WHERE YOU SEE THAT WHITE PIPE STAKE THERE? IT'S RIGHT AROUND, I WOULD SAY ON THAT WHITE STAKE AND TO THE LEFT OF THERE IS THE OKAY PRI PRIMARY SPOT WHERE THE ROCKS WERE DUMPED.
AND, AND, AND ACTUALLY, UH, MY GUESS IS WHERE I SAW A STREAMLINE FROM THERE GOING THIS WAY.
I DIDN'T KNOW YOU HAD A RED POINT OR I'M NOT SORRY.
OH, BUT WHAT I SAW, THAT'S PROBABLY THE JURISDICTIONAL LINE.
'CAUSE UP THERE YOU'VE ONLY GOT A TIDE RANGE OF NINE INCHES AT THE MOST.
SO IT DOESN'T TAKE YOU MUCH MORE THAN A FOOT ABOVE LOW WATER TO GET OUTSIDE OF THE WETLANDS BOARD'S JURISDICTION.
AND UNFORTUNATELY THE SPARTINA ALTERNATE FLOOR AND THE PATENTS DON'T REALIZE THAT THEY'RE IN VIOLATION.
UM, I, WELL THE, UM, MY GENERAL UNDERSTANDING WAS THAT THAT LOW PROFILE BERM THERE WAS RIGHT AT ONE AND A HALF MEAN HIGH.
SO I CAN TELL THE BOARD THAT WHEN I WAS MEASURING THAT WAS MY GUIDE POINT.
SO IF THERE'S ANY INDICATION THAT THAT WOULD NOT BE THE PROPER MEASURING SPOT, I WOULD WANT TO GO BACK OUT THERE AND MEASURE AGAIN.
BUT THEY HAD A PERMIT FOR THAT LOW PROFILE, CORRECT? OR THEY THEY CAME IN FRONT OF THE BOARD AND THE BOARD DECIDED IT WAS ABOVE THE JURISDICTION.
THAT'S MY, WELL THAT'S, MS. GORMAN ACTUALLY PARTICIPATED IN THAT AND I'VE TALKED TO HER ABOUT IT.
SHE MAY HAVE A MORE PRECISE EXPLANATION.
UM, SO FROM WHAT I RECALL ABOUT THIS, THE, WE HAD QUESTIONS ABOUT THE LOW PROFILE BURN ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT IT WAS WITHIN THE BOARD'S JURISDICTION AND, AND I BELIEVE IT'S IN THE, UM, FILE, BUT THE AGENT AT THE TIME HAD INDICATED THAT THAT BERM WAS ALREADY EXISTING.
IT WAS THE EDGE OF THE EDGE OF THE DRY POINT.
UM, SO I THINK THAT LEAVES US WITH THE ISSUE OF, OF MY MEASUREMENT AND HOW I CALCULATED IT.
AND UM, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT, BUT I THINK THAT'S PRETTY MUCH THE TOTALITY OF, OF, OF THE VIOLATION AND, AND AND WHAT'S OCCURRED.
UM, I, WELL I I WOULD ADD THIS, UM, HE STATED IN HIS, UH, LETTER SOMETHING ABOUT HOW THIS WAS AN INADVERTENT, THAT SOMEBODY HAD PUT SOME PLYWOOD OVER THE MARSH AND IT INADVERTENTLY DROPPED SOME ROCKS ON IT.
UM, I WOULD JUST SAY THAT, I MEAN THIS DOES NOT LOOK LIKE SOMEBODY INADVERTENTLY DROPPED ROCKS, PLYWOOD UNDERNEATH THE ROCK RIGHT THERE.
I I WOULD JUST SAY IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE A FEW ROCKS WERE INADVERTENTLY DROPPED ON THE MARSH.
WE JUST DEALING WITH POST-CONSTRUCTION RIGHT NOW.
NO ONE'S PUT ANY MORE ROCKS OR ANYTHING ON THIS SITE.
CORRECT? THAT'S MY UNDERSTANDING.
AND, AND AND THAT'S MY OBSERVATION IS, IS THAT THAT BREAK ORDER IS FINISHED.
ALL THOSE, THOSE ROCKS ARE STILL THERE? NO, THOSE, THOSE, SO THAT SPOT MARCH 17, THIS IS MAY 12TH.
SO THEY ARE GONE AND THE ROCKS YOU SEE IN THE FOREGROUND IS THE END OF THE, UH, CUL-DE-SAC.
ABOVE THAT'S, UH, SO THEY'RE NOT ON THE OWNER'S NAME.
THAT'S ON THAT CUL-DE-SAC IS INCLUDED IN, UH, LET'S SEE.
LEMME GO BACK TO THE TAX MAP AND, AND UH, OKAY, THAT'S BETTER.
UM, IT, I I BELIEVE IT'S, WELL IT'S VERY CLOSE.
I I THINK THEY ARE ON THE OWNER'S LAND.
IT IT'S, BUT I WOULD SAY IT'S RIGHT ON THAT UH, BLUE BORDER, UH, AT THE TOP.
ALTHOUGH OUR TAX MAPS ARE NOT A HUNDRED PERCENT ACCURATE, SO IT'S WITHOUT A SURVEY WE WOULD NEVER KNOW.
AND I DON'T THINK IT'S NECESSARY.
I THINK THE VAN WRECKED OFF THE RESIDUAL OF THE ROCKS THAT THEY WILL GROW BACK.
I-I-I-I-I KNOW I THINK MS. PULASKI ISS TRYING TO DO A GOOD DEED IN TERMS OF PROTECTING HIS HOUSE AND TRYING TO PROTECT THE MARSH.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT OUR OPTIONS ARE HERE, BUT WOULD IT JUST, I MEAN, YOU KNOW, MY COMPLAINT IS THE GRAVEL, THE GRAVEL HAS TO BE REMOVED.
'CAUSE OTHERWISE THERE WON'T BE ANY GROWTH THERE.
AND I, I'M JUST GONNA SUGGEST MAYBE ONE OPTION IS JUST TO SEND A LETTER
[02:25:01]
AND SAY, THIS IS WHAT WE'D LIKE TO HAVE DONE AND IF YOU COULD GET, GET IT DONE, GET IT DONE.AND THEN THE OTHER OPTION WE CAN GO AND SAY YOU HAVE TO GET IT DONE.
I, I I THINK I I WOULD AGREE THAT IT WOULD BE BEST FOR THE WETLANDS HERE AND FOR THAT TO BE DONE.
AND, AND, AND I ALSO BELIEVE, WELL I I'D LIKE TO BELIEVE THAT THIS IS SOMETHING HE WANTS ANYWAY.
IT, IT'S JUST HE'S NOT AGREEABLE.
HE HASN'T BEEN AGREEABLE TO SUGGESTIONS SO FAR.
UM, SOME, SOME OF US MADE HIM MAD.
HOW MANY SQUARE FOOT WAS IT? IT'S ABOUT 110 OR SO.
I MEAN IT'S, IT, IT PLUG IT ONE FOOT ON CENTER AND BE DONE WITH IT.
MAKE 'EM PLUG IT, NOT LET, NOT LET IT GET IT OVER WITH.
I MEAN I SPOKE TO MR. BROWN, I SPOKE TO MY GRANDSON AND THEY SAID WE NEED TO GET THIS OVER WITH.
I SAID, WELL ALL MAKE A SUGGESTION IF Y'ALL, IF YOU ARE WILLING TO DO IT.
I'LL THINK THAT MR. BROWN'S HERE RIGHT NOW, THE EASIEST THING THEY CAN DO IS GO OUT THERE, PUT A HUNDRED PLUGS IN AND BE DONE WITH IT.
WELL YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO REMOVE SOME GRAVEL TOO.
WELL, THEY CAN RATE THE GRAVEL UP.
FACT, ROCK GRASS WILL GROW INTO ROCK IF, IF YOU MOVE, IF, IF THEY, UH, PLANTED ON, ON CENTERS AS YOU SUGGEST IT'LL TAKE, UH, WITH A, UM, MAINTENANCE.
UM, AND I'M NOT SURE WE ASK HIM.
I THINK THE ANSWER IS TO TELL HIM AND HE'S GOT X THAT WHAT I THINK YOU SHOULD DO X NUMBER HERE RIGHT NOW.
HE WANTS IT RESOLVED AND IT WOULD GIVE EVERYBODY'S BENEFIT TO REPLANT IT.
IT'S GONNA BE A JOB TO KEEP IT GROWING.
HE SHOWED THE FISH A WHILE AGO THAT ARE COMING ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE NEIGHBOR BEAR SPOTS IN THE MARSH.
AND IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN HERE TOO.
BUT IF THEY WERE PLANTED ONE FOOT ON THE CENTER, IT SOLVE EVERYBODY'S PROBLEM.
IS IT, IS IT GONNA WORK WITH MAINTENANCE? UH, BECAUSE OF THE ENERGY THERE? IT IS.
BUT I THINK WITH THE WALL OUT THERE RIGHT NOW IS, MIGHT WORK FOR DOES THAT BREAK WATER? OUGHT IT IS GOING TO HELP IT.
BUT WHEN YOU GET THOSE REAL HIGH TIDES, THE NORTHEASTERNS DON'T HURT THIS.
AND I'M GOING SUGGEST I'M GONNA MAKE OUR BODY MAD.
'CAUSE SOME PEOPLE THINK PAGE ARE LIKE, LIKE, UH, UH, THESE, UH, THESE, I CALL 'EM REEDS, BUT UH, UH, WHAT, WHAT DO YOU CALL 'EM? NOXIOUS, UH, JOHNSON GRASS OR NO ACHIEVEMENT.
THE UH, BUT ANYWAYS, I THINK, I THINK, UH, THE, UH, SPORT, UH, PEYTON WOULD HOLD THE LAND BETTER TOO IF HE'S PLANTED THE PEYTON.
DON'T YOU THINK PAY THIS AROUND FOR TWO DAYS OR THE NEXT TWO MONTHS IF YOU WANT TO JUST CHILLING, REMOVE ABSOLUTELY.
I WOULD SAY THAT IF, AND AN INSPECTION AFTER WE'RE JUST DONE, UNLESS THE CREW WOULD, YOU JUST, IT SOUNDS LIKE, SORRY, GO AHEAD.
I, WE NORMALLY WE WOULD REQUIRE A, SOME TYPE OF RESTORATION DRAWING PLAN, WHICH IS NOW MORE THAN ONE PAGE WITH, YOU KNOW, THIS IS WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN AND, AND LET IT GO WITH THAT.
UH, THAT'S WHAT COULD HAPPEN IF WE WANTED TO GO THAT DIRECTION.
WE ALSO REQUIRE A MONITORING PLAN WITH THAT.
WE HAVE LITTLE PROBLEM WITH MINE CAN PLAN ALONG THAT EDGE OUT THERE.
I'M NOT GET, I WOULDN'T, IF, IF HE WILL NOT RESPOND, I, YOU CAN KEEP IT THAT THEN, UH, WHAT DO WE DO? OFFERING HIM THAT, UH, OPTION OF TO PLANTING OR I WOULD AND IF HE WON'T RESPOND, WHAT'S THE NEXT STEP? UM, I GUESS I WOULD SUGGEST THAT, UH, I COMMUNICATE TO HIM, UH, THAT THE BOARD, UH, DESIRES HIM TO RESTORE AND WHAT WE NEED FROM HIM, WHICH I THINK WOULD BE A VERY SIMPLE THING.
UM, AND A PLAN, UM, THAT HE COULD COMPLETE AND CONTINUE THIS TO THE NEXT MEETING.
AND SEE IF HE RESPONDS IN THE MEANTIME.
AND, UH, YOU'RE GONNA ALSO GIVE HIM A TIMEFRAME, I WOULD GUESS IN YOUR LETTER.
AND I, I'LL, I'LL CONTINUE IT.
I THINK THAT'S THE THING TO DO.
BUT, UH, AND, AND THING BUT REMOVE THE GRAVEL PLANT ONE FOOT ON CENTER.
THE PROBLEM IS, BUT LIKE YOU SAY, WITH THE, UH, THREE YEAR, THE EROSION IS, IS GOING TO GET, IT'S NOT LIKE IT SAID APPLE WILL BE OKAY, BUT LONG IT IS.
UM, SAYING WE CAN EVALUATE IT.
I, I DON'T, WE CAN JUST EVALUATE IT AND YEAH, THERE'S NOTHING WE CAN DO ABOUT IT.
UH, BUT DOES ANYONE HAVE ANYTHING TO SAY ABOUT IT? I THINK IT'S A GREAT IDEA.
UH, HAVE SOMEONE, OR HE CAN DO IT.
UH, CONTINUE IT TO NEXT MONTH AND SEE IF HE HAS AT LEAST ACKNOWLEDGED
[02:30:01]
AND SAYS HE'LL DO IT.AND IF HE HAS NOT, THEN WE GOTTA MOVE ON TO SOMETHING ELSE.
AND I, I WILL GO OUT WITH ONE MINUTE JEFF AND UH, YES BOYS IS SURE WHAT WE'VE DONE THE PAST WHEN I'VE DONE A LOT OF YOU WOULD BY WOULD TEACH 'EM.
I GOT A PRETTY GOOD RELATIONSHIP WITH MR. BLAS AND I'LL PRESS UPON HIM THAT WE ALRIGHT.
WILL YOU ALSO EXPLAIN MR. ROLLMAN BRI WILL GIVE HIM GUIDANCE, UH, AND, UM, DOES EVERYONE SORT OF KIND OF AGREE, UH, WITH THE CONTINUANCE? UH, SO WE'RE GONNA MAKE THIS A MOTION, I THINK WITH, UH, A CONTINUANCE.
UH, AND I THINK IN, IN THE MOTION IT OUGHT TO CONTAIN OUR PLAN, UM, OF REPLANTING AND SO FORTH IN THE CONTINUANCE.
SO JUST TO UNDERSTAND COMPLETELY, UM, IT'S GONNA BE CONTINUED REQUIRING A PLAN FROM HIM, BUT AT THE NEXT MEETING WE WOULD THEN SET WHATEVER OTHER CONDITIONS ONCE WE HAVE HIS PLAN, MEANING THE INSPECTIONS, THE TIME PERIOD, THINGS LIKE THAT, THAT'S FINE WITH ME.
BUT WE'LL KNOW THAT ACTUALLY SHOULD BE IN THE PLANS, UH, TO A CERTAIN EXTENT.
I ACTUALLY HAVE SOMEBODY LISTEN TO THE MEETING AND THEY, WHEN THEY HEARD ABOUT THE MAINTENANCE AND THE MONITOR PLAN, THEY SAID THEY COULD PUT THAT TOGETHER, IT WOULD BE NOT A PROBLEM.
SO IS THERE A TIME FRAME FOR THE MONITORING THE NUMBER? UH, YEAH.
UM, SO I GUESS WE ARE GONNA ASK FOR A MOTION FOR A CONTINUANCE IS BASICALLY IT FOR THE MOMENT.
MR. CHAIR, I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION, UH, FOR CONTINUOUS ON THE VIOLATION ON BMRC.
WE'LL HAVE A CONTINUANCE FOR NEXT MONTH IN JUNE.
TO GET, GET A PLANNING SCHEDULE AND A MONITORING PLAN TOGETHER.
DO I HAVE A SECOND PLEASE? SECOND.
SO THAT PASSES, UH, WITH FOR CONTINUANCE AND WITH YOUR TWO GUYS HELP, WE HOPE NEXT MONTH IT'S CUT AND DRIED AND WE WILL GO FROM THERE.
DOES THAT SUIT EVERYBODY? YEP.
THAT'S THE WAY IT IS GOING TO BE.
UH, NEXT MEETING IS JUNE 26TH, RIGHT HERE.
UH, WE ARE A MOTION TO ADJOURN.
I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO ADJOURN.
WHAT DO YOU WANT? ANYBODY YOU WANT? THAT'S FAST.