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PLANNING COMMISSION ORDER.[Planning Commission Regular Meeting on November 12, 2025.]
WITH MR. ROGERS AND MR. TYLER.ABSENT, WE'LL MOVE TO THE ADOPTION OF THE AGENDA.
DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANY ADDITIONS OR SUBTRACTIONS TO THE AGENDA? UH, YES.
CAN WE POSSIBLY ADD UNDER OTHER MATTERS THE DISCUSSION FOR DEAL BUILDING STRUCTURES? SURE.
ANY OTHER ADDITIONS OR SUBTRACTIONS? ALL RIGHT.
WE'LL, UM, GET A MOTION TO APPROVE.
MOTION TO APPROVE WITH, UH, THE ADDITION.
WE CAN MOVE ON TO THE MINUTES OF TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 23RD.
DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANY CORRECTIONS? I DO NOT.
WE MAY HAVE A MOTION TO, I MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE OF SEPTEMBER 23RD.
WE ALSO NEED TO APPROVE WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 8TH, EIGHT.
REGULAR PLANNING COMMISSION MEETINGS.
DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANY CORRECTIONS? I DO NOT.
ANYBODY HAVE A MOTION TO, UH, ACCEPT THE MINUTES AS WRITTEN? SO, AND SECOND, SECOND.
MOTION IS SECOND TO ADOPT AS, UH, WRITTEN.
WE'LL MOVE ON TO PUBLIC COMMENT, PERIOD.
WE'LL CLOSE PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD AND MOVE ON TO NEW BUSINESS.
WE HAVE INTRODUCTION ON THE PROPOSED AMENDMENTS TO AKIMA COUNTY CODE CHAPTER 1 0 6, ZONING TO REGULATE BATTERY ENERGY STORAGE FACILITIES.
LEE HANDIT, DEPUTY COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR FOR COMMUNITY AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT.
AND, UH, THIS ITEM IS MERELY AN INTRODUCTION.
OF COURSE, WE'D BE HAPPY TO, UH, UH, TAKE ANY QUESTIONS THAT YOU MAY HAVE WITH THE LANGUAGE THAT HAS BEEN PROVIDED.
BUT ESSENTIALLY WHAT THIS IS, IS, UH, NEW REGULATION FOR BATTERY ENERGY STORAGE SYSTEMS, BATTERY ENERGY STORAGE SYSTEMS, AND THE, THE, I GUESS THE FIRST INSTANCE THAT THIS PLANNING COMMISSION HAS DEALT WITH A BATTERY ENERGY STORAGE SYSTEM IS THE JUPITER SCOUT ENERGY PROJECT UP IN, UH, UP IN WATTS.
UH, AS YOU MAY KNOW, THOSE PLANS HAVE BEEN SUBMITTED TO US.
THAT PROJECT WAS HIGHLY REGULATED THROUGH PROFFERS IN A REZONING AND CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT.
NOW, THIS HERE, BECAUSE WE HAVE BEEN RECEIVING MORE INQUIRIES ON BATTERY ENERGY STORAGE SYSTEMS, UH, THE STAFF FELT IT NECESSARY TO LOOK INTO, UH, LOOK INTO SOME REGULATION FOR THAT.
NOW, THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS, UH, I BELIEVE IT WAS TWO MONTHS AGO, HAD PASSED AN INITIATING RESOLUTION TO, UH, TO CHARGE THE STAFF AND THE PLANNING COMMISSION WITH LOOKING AT THAT.
AND, UH, ESSENTIALLY, UH, WE HAVE ALREADY DRAFTED SOME LANGUAGE TO THAT EFFECT.
SANTI, IF WE COULD CALL UP THE, THE LANGUAGE, WE'RE DEFINITELY NOT GONNA READ THROUGH ALL OF THIS BECAUSE THIS IS JUST AN INTRODUCTION.
BUT AS WE SCROLL THROUGH THIS, SOME OF THE, UH, SOME OF THE HIGHLIGHTS IN THE LANGUAGE, UH, FIRST OF ALL, RESTRICTS BATTERY ENERGY STORAGE SYSTEMS TO THE INDUSTRIAL ZONING DISTRICT AS FAR AS USE IS CONCERNED, OR LET'S SAY AS FAR AS THE, UM, AS FAR AS THE, UH, UH, THE APPROVAL PROCESS OR THE REVIEW PROCESS.
AS WE ALL KNOW, THERE ARE USES THAT ARE ALLOWED BY WRIGHT, WHICH MEANS THAT IF THEY, IF THEY HAVE FOLLOWED ALL OF THE REGULATIONS, THEN THEY DON'T NEED TO GO THROUGH A PUBLIC HEARING PROCESS.
SPECIAL USES REQUIRE ONE PUBLIC HEARING THROUGH THE BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS AND CONDITIONAL USES REQUIRE TWO PUBLIC HEARINGS, ONE WITH THE PLANNING COMMISSION, AND THE SECOND ONE, UH, WHERE WITH THE FIRST ONE, WHERE THE PLANNING COMMISSION WOULD RENDER A, A RECOMMENDATION, AND THE SECOND PUBLIC HEARING BEING AN ACTUAL DECISION BY THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS.
WHAT THIS ORDINANCE DOES, AGAIN, RESTRICTS BATTERY ENERGY STORAGE SYSTEMS TO THE INDUSTRIAL DISTRICT, AND THEY WOULD HAVE TO GO THROUGH A CONDITIONAL USE PROCESS, MEANING THOSE TWO PUBLIC HEARINGS.
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WE FELT THAT, UM, UH, AT LEAST AT THE BEGINNING, THAT A HIGH LEVEL OF SCRUTINY AND CONTROL WAS NECESSARY FOR THIS TYPE OF USE.GIVEN THE, UM, YOU KNOW, GIVEN THE, UH, THE INTEREST THAT THE COMMUNITY HAS SEEN TODAY, ESPECIALLY WITH THAT JUPITER SCOUT ENERGY PROJECT, THEY HAD A LOT OF, UH, THEY HAD A LOT OF, UM, INTEREST IN THE LEVEL OF NOISE, UH, FIRE SUPPRESSION AND PUBLIC SAFETY.
AND, UM, AND, UH, THOSE ELEMENTS ARE ACTUALLY, UH, ARE, ARE ACTUALLY INCLUDED IN THE, IN THE, UM, UH, THE PROPOSED ORDINANCE.
SO I THINK APPEARANCE TO THE, SAY AGAIN, THEY WERE ARGUING ABOUT APPEARANCE TO APPEARANCE, ALL THE TREES AND THE WALL.
AND, UH, AND IF SCREENING IS SOMETHING THAT WE NEED TO DELVE MORE INTO, AGAIN, TONIGHT IS JUST AN INTRODUCTION.
WE HAVEN'T REQUESTED ANY PUBLIC HEARING.
I SUSPECT THAT, UH, WE'LL, WHAT WE WOULD DO IS WE WOULD COME BACK TO YOU NEXT MONTH AFTER YOU ALL HAVE HAD A CHANCE TO LOOK AT THE LANGUAGE, AND THEN WE COULD HAVE, UH, HAVE MORE DISCUSSION ON THAT.
UM, SOME OF THE OTHER FEATURES INCLUDE, UH, REQUIREMENTS FOR CITING AGREEMENTS.
THERE IS ALSO A, UH, UH, UH, A DECOMMISSIONING BOND SO THAT WHEN THEY'RE DONE WITH THE SITE, WE'VE GOT THE MONEY IF THEY DON'T DO IT THEMSELVES, TO ACTUALLY RETURN THAT SITE TO ITS PRE-DEVELOPMENT STATE.
AND THAT'S IMPORTANT BECAUSE, UM, UH, YOU KNOW, THESE BATTERY ENERGY STORAGE SYSTEMS, WE, WE DON'T KNOW HOW LONG THEY'RE GONNA BE THERE, BUT SHOULD THEY PULL OFF OF THE SITE, WE DON'T WANT JUST THIS DERELICT SITE WITH CABINETS AND EVERYTHING ELSE.
SO WE WOULD EXPECT THEM TO RETURN THAT TO SOME PRE-DEVELOPMENT, UH, STATE.
THE OTHER THING THAT IS ALSO REQUIRED IN THE PROPOSED LANGUAGE IS A SAFETY PLAN THAT WOULD BE REVIEWED BY THE DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC SAFETY.
THERE ARE, UH, THERE ARE, UH, FIRE SUPPRESSION, UH, CONSIDERATIONS HERE, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE DIFFERENT TYPES OF, UM, DIFFERENT TYPES OF BATTERIES.
WE ALL KNOW THE, UH, THE ISSUE WITH LITHIUM BATTERIES.
I KNOW THAT A LOT OF, UH, LITHIUM BATTERY, BATTERY ENERGY STORAGE SYSTEMS OR, UH, THAT THAT'S WHAT THEY USE MOSTLY ARE LITHIUM BATTERIES.
BUT THEY'RE ALSO LOOKING INTO OTHER, UH, SHALL WE SAY, UM, UH, CHEMICAL PROPERTIES OF OTHER TYPES OF BATTERIES THAT MIGHT NOT BE AS COMBUSTIBLE.
UM, THAT IS PRETTY MUCH EVERYTHING.
LET ME, UH, IF YOU COULD JUST SCROLL THROUGH SOME MORE OF THIS.
UM, YOU KNOW, WE, WE'VE GOT SOME, UH, WE'VE GOT SOME NEW DEFINITIONS THAT ARE NOT CURRENTLY IN THE ZONING OR IN THE ZONING ORDINANCE.
WE DON'T HAVE A DEFINITION FOR BATTERY ENERGY STORAGE SYSTEMS, WHICH IS A KEY, UH, WHICH IS A, A, A KEY ELEMENT OF ANY ORDINANCE.
BUT RIGHT NOW, UH, YOU KNOW HOW THAT JUPITER ENERGY OR THAT THAT SCOUT JUPITER ENERGY PROJECT WAS APPROVED, IT WAS APPROVED BECAUSE OF THE SIZE OF THE SITE.
SO THE STAFF AT THE TIME HAD BASICALLY INDICATED IF THERE, IF THERE'S GOING TO BE DEVELOPMENT ON A SITE OF 10 ACRES OR MORE, THAT A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT WOULD BE REQUIRED.
SO THAT'S HOW THEY, UH, THAT'S HOW THEY ADDRESSED THAT LAST TIME.
WE INTEND TO BE MORE SPECIFIC WITH DEFINITIONS AND WITH ACTUAL REGULATIONS THAT WOULD APPLY TO ALL OF THEM WITHOUT, UH, WITHOUT HAVING TO REMEMBER ALL OF THIS STUFF AT WHEN THE NEXT REZONE AIR CONDITION USE PERMIT COMES IN.
CAN YOU SPEAK TO NUMBER TWO, C2 C TWO, UH, FINANCIAL COMPENSATION TO THE COUNTY TO ADDRESS CAPITAL NEEDS SET UP IN THE CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PLAN, OR IN THE CO COUNTY'S FISCAL BUDGET OR ASSISTANCE WITH THE DEPLOYMENT OF BROADBAND AS DEFINED IN THIS CODE SECTION AND CODE OF VIRGINIA? SO THESE ARE, SO ONE AND TWO ARE OPTIONAL.
AS YOU, AS YOU READ THROUGH, UH, SECTION THE PROPOSED SECTION 1 0 6, 2 43 AT THE TOP, LETTER C NOTICE AND CITING AGREEMENT, UH, BASICALLY WHAT THAT COULD BE, UH, WHAT THAT COULD BE IS, WELL, NUMBER ONE IS IF THEY WANT TO INCLUDE, YOU KNOW, INCLUDE SOME ELEMENTS IN THEIR APPLICATION THAT WOULD MITIGATE SOME OF THESE, UH, COMMUNITY, UH, COMMUNITY IMPACTS OR COMMUNITY CONCERNS, UH, THAT COULD ALSO BE DONE WITH PROFFERS OR CONDITIONS, BUT SPECIFICALLY WITH NUMBER TWO,
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IT, IT'S, IT'S ALMOST LIKE A PROFFER, IF YOU WILL.SO SOMEONE WOULD COME IN AND SAY, HEY, I WANT TO DO A BATTERY ENERGY STORAGE SYSTEM.
I SEE IN YOUR ORDINANCE THAT I COULD ACTUALLY, UH, INCLUDE ADDITIONAL FINANCIAL COMPENSATION FOR THAT PURPOSE.
THAT'S, IT MAY BE TO, TO KIND OF SWEETEN THE, UH, THE APPLICATION IN THE HOPES OF GETTING, OF GAINING AN APPROVAL.
AND, AND THAT'S WHY I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH IT.
UH, IF I CAN INFLUENCE SOMETHING BECAUSE I HAVE A BIG APO, YOU KNOW, I, I'M GONNA HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT EVERY TIME, RIGHT.
AND, UH, WE WILL TAKE A CLOSER LOOK AT THAT CODE SECTION.
UM, I THINK THAT'S A GREAT OBSERVATION THAT WE CAN CERTAINLY THROW INTO THE HOPPER FOR DISCUSSION.
UH, I MEAN, YOU CAN DISCUSS IT TONIGHT OR WE CAN DISCUSS IT NEXT MONTH,
UH, VICE CHAIR, I HAVE ONE MORE.
THE COAL ZONE, THE, THE 200 FEET COAL ZONE YOU MENTIONED IN HERE, UH, IT'S THERE, BUT IT'S EASILY REDUCED TO A HUNDRED.
I I THINK IT ALLOWS YOU TO REDUCE THAT CODE ZONE TO A HUNDRED FEET OR LESS.
UH, IF WE COULD GO TO THAT CODE SECTION SO THAT WE CAN READ IT FOR EVERYBODY.
WE'RE CALLING IT A COLD ZONE COLD COLD ZONE.
IS IT BG ONE B? WERE THE 200 FEET STARTS IN YEAH, IT'S SLOW.
THERE'S G ONE IS REQUIRED SETBACKS, AND LET'S SEE, REQUIRED SETBACKS.
IS, IS IT, IS IT G ONE A THAT YOU'RE REFERRING TO? YES, SIR.
SO THAT READS AS ESTABLISHED BY THE FIRE INDUSTRY, BEST PRACTICES FOR SAFE PERIMETER AND A COLD ZONE, AND TO PROTECT AND PRESERVE THE HEALTH, SAFETY, AND WELFARE OF PERSON'S NEIGHBORING PROPERTY AND OVERALL QUALITY OF LIFE WITHIN THE, IN THE COUNTY, ANY BATTERY ENERGY STORAGE SYSTEM SHALL BE SET BACK 200 FEET FROM ALL PROPERTY LINES.
THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS IN THE SECOND PROVISION, UH, SAYS THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS MAY REDUCE THE DISTANCE REQUIRED BY THE SECTION TO A DISTANCE OF NO LESS THAN 100 FEET.
UPON FINDING THAT THE SYSTEM WILL HAVE SUFFICIENT SAFETY AND FIRE PROTECTION FEATURES THAT SUBSTANTIALLY MITIGATE THE RISK OF HARM TO NEARBY PERSONS.
SO I THINK THAT, UH, BETWEEN THE PLANNING STAFF AND THE, UH, THE PUBLIC SAFETY STAFF, PUBLIC SAFETY WILL ALSO BE LOOKING AT THESE.
UM, AND OF COURSE, WE'LL ALSO BE SENDING THESE TO THE, UH, TO THE LOCAL, UH, POWER PROVIDER, A AND ECI GUESS MY, MY QUESTION IS THAT IF IT'S, IF 200 FEET IS WHAT'S RECOMMENDED AND REQUIRED, UH, IN YOUR FIRST PARAGRAPH MM-HMM
UH, THEN THE NEXT PARAGRAPH YOU CAN SAY, NO, IT'S NOT REALLY 200 FEET, IT'S A HUNDRED FEET.
SO IS IT A HUNDRED FEET OR 200 FEET THAT'S GRANTED THAT YOU HAVE ADDITIONAL, UH, INPUT FROM, UH, PROFESSIONALS OR WHATEVER.
BUT IT LOOKS LIKE YOU'RE SAYING WE NEED THIS 200 FEET.
IN THE NEXT PARAGRAPH YOU SAID, WELL, MAYBE WE DON'T, YOU KNOW.
IS IT, OR IS IT NOT? AND AND REMOVAL OF THAT COULD BE, UH, COULD BE, UM, UH, YOU KNOW, THAT THAT COULD BE SOMETHING THAT YOU RECOMMEND TO THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS THAT THEY TAKE OUT.
IF THERE IS A BONAFIDE SITUATION WHERE THEY WOULD NEED TO VARY THAT 200 FEET TO SOMETHING LESS, AND THIS IS REMOVED, THE BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS WITH A VARIANCE REQUEST COULD ALWAYS BE AN OPTION.
ONE OF THE, UM, AND, AND, UH, ONE OF THE, UH, UM, I GUESS FEATURES OR, UH, OR SIDE EFFECTS OF THIS IS THAT THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS, YOU KNOW, THEY COULD ACTUALLY MAKE THAT DECISION THEMSELVES PER THIS LANGUAGE.
IT'S DEFINITELY NOT A, IT'S DEFINITELY NOT A REQUIREMENT THAT WE LEAVE B IN, BUT IF THAT'S A CONCERN, WE CAN DEFINITELY TALK ABOUT THAT MORE.
I WOULD JUST SAY THAT THERE ARE OTHER OPTIONS FOR THAT.
AND IF YOU WANT TO MAKE THAT A MORE, UH, A MORE RIGOROUS REVIEW, THEN YOU COULD TAKE THAT OUT AND TELL 'EM TO GO TO THE BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS FOR A VARIANCE.
AND, UH, AND THAT WOULD BE, UH, ANOTHER MECHANISM FOR VARYING THAT 200 FEET TO SOMETHING LESS.
I JUST WANTED TO BRING IT TO YOUR ATTENTION THAT IT LOOKED LIKE IT WAS,
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UH, CONTRADICTING ITSELF.LEE, IS THERE ANY PROVISION IN THERE? I DIDN'T SEE IT ABOUT HAVING AN AGREEMENT WITH ANNEX BEFORE THEY COME TO US, BECAUSE THAT WOULD, IT FELL THROUGH BEFORE, OVER, OVER AGREEMENTS.
JUST AS A MATTER OF COURSE, WE WOULD NEVER PUT FORTH AN APPLICATION OR MAKE A RECOMMENDATION FOR APPROVAL UNLESS ANNEX HAD REVIEWED, REVIEWED IT FIRST.
UM, BUT IF YOU, IF YOU WANT THAT HARD CODED INTO THE ORDINANCE, YOU CAN CERTAINLY THROW THAT IN THERE AS WELL.
BUT IT WOULD CERTAINLY NOT BEHOOVE THE COUNTY STAFF TO, UH, NOT PUT ONE OF THESE TO ANAC AND GET THEIR BLESSING BEFORE SAYING ALL OF THE RELEVANT REVIEW AGENCIES HAVE NO COMMENTS ON THIS, OR THEY ALL RECOMMEND APPROVAL.
SO WHAT WE TRY TO DO IS WE TRY TO GAIN, UH, THEIR, THEIR RECOMMENDATION OF APPROVAL BEFORE WE PUT IT AND, AND, AND THIS BEING AN ENERGY, UH, AN ENERGY RELATED FACILITY THAT WOULD TIE DIRECTLY INTO THEIR GRID.
THERE IS NO WAY THAT WE WOULD NOT, YOU KNOW, WELL, AS I SAID, THAT'S WHAT, WHAT'S EVIDENTLY THE SNAG 1, 1 75 MM-HMM
ABOUT THE, WELL, WE HAVE, UM, I, I'D LIKE TO THINK THAT WE HAVE A GOOD RELATIONSHIP WITH ANEK.
WE SPOKE, I SPOKE WITH JOHN ARP AT ANEK TODAY FOR, UH, FOR A SEPARATE SITUATION, BUT SOMETHING THAT, YOU KNOW, WE'RE, WE'RE, WE'RE SETTING UP THIS PROCESS FOR A LOT OF REVIEW AND A LOT OF EYES ON IT.
UH, WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT SOMETHING LIKE THIS, YOU KIND OF SHIFT AWAY FROM UTILITIES FOR, UH, YOU KNOW, FOR, UH, A DEVELOPMENT, A RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT, OR A COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENT.
THERE ARE VERY LITTLE UTILITIES INVOLVED WITH THIS.
UM, THE MOST THAT WE WOULD BE DOING FROM A UTILITY STANDPOINT IS, UH, IF IT IS REQUIRED TO HAVE SOME SORT OF SPRINKLER SYSTEM, BUT, YOU KNOW, UH, AS FAR AS WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT WITH ANEC BEING ALSO BEING A UTILITY, THIS IS TYING DIRECTLY INTO THE GRID.
AND THERE'S NO WAY THAT WE WOULD, THAT WE WOULD, UM, GAIN THERE.
AT LEAST SHOW IT TO THEM AND SAY, HEY, WE GOT THIS.
THEY WANT TO TIE INTO YOUR GRID AND, AND MAKE SURE THAT THEY'RE AT LEAST IN THE LOOP ON THAT.
I'M JUST THINKING THAT WE DON'T WANNA REPEAT WHAT WENT ON THERE AS FAR AS IT'S STILL, YOU KNOW.
SO WITH THE ONE IN WATVILLE, ARE YOU SAYING THAT THERE WAS A PROBLEM BECAUSE, AND IT WAS NOT INVOLVED IN THAT, INVOLVED IN IT INITIAL DISCUSSION? YES.
AND SO THEN THAT'S FROM MY UNDERSTANDING.
AND THEN THEY, THEY, UH, EVIDENTLY THEN DISCUSSIONS BROKE DOWN.
I WAS NOT CURVY TO THEM, BUT YEAH, I, I THINK THAT, UM, IT'S GOOD PRACTICE.
ESPECIALLY, IT'S SINCE IT'S THEIR INFRASTRUCTURE MM-HMM
SO WHY WOULD THE COUNTY PROVIDE, PROVIDE, UH, SOME SORT OF APPROVAL ON A FACILITY THAT'S TYING INTO THEIR, UH, THAT'S TYING INTO THEIR GRID OR THEIR INFRASTRUCTURE WITHOUT LETTING THEM KNOW.
UH, THAT'S, THAT'S NOT HOW WE DO THINGS.
SO IT TALKS ABOUT THE APPLICATION OWNERSHIP, PROVIDE THE NOISE ATTENUATION MEASURES.
SO IS, UH, THIS, THEY'RE A COMPANY OF SOMEONE WHO, UH, WITH THAT, 'CAUSE IT SAYS A NOISE STUDY.
I MEAN, IS THERE SOMEONE, UH, THAT GETS THE DECIBELS THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU GET A REPORT TO SEE WHAT THEY ARE OR WHAT 'CAUSE MORE PEOPLE'S HEARING? YES.
THERE, THERE IS, UH, THERE, THERE ARE SOUND ENGINEERS OR ACOUSTIC ENGINEERS THAT DO THIS KIND OF THING.
UM, UH, I HAD A, I HAD A SITUATION IN A PREVIOUS LOCALITY FOR, FOR A SHOOTING RANGE.
THAT WAS RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF A, OF A SUBURBAN AREA.
AND WE HAD TO GET, UH, WE HAD TO GET SOME, UM, UH, UH, SOME STANDARDS OR A NOISE STUDY FOR THAT.
THE STAFF HAD RECENTLY ATTENDED A TRAINING ON NOISE, UH, ON NOISE ORDINANCES IN NOISE VIOLATIONS, UH, AT THE CITY OF SUFFOLK.
INCIDENTALLY, IT WAS ABOUT BATTERY ENERGY STORAGE.
NO, IT WAS ABOUT SOLAR IS WHAT IT WAS, YOU KNOW, A A RELATED USE THAT ALSO, UH, THAT ALSO PRODUCES A LITTLE BIT OF NOISE.
BUT THIS, BUT THIS NOISE STUDY WOULDN'T BE ON US.
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THAT.AND OF COURSE, WE WOULD WANT TO KNOW THAT THAT, UH, THAT THE ENGINEER CONDUCTING THAT STUDY IS QUALIFIED TO DO THAT.
THERE, THERE WAS ONE CONDUCTED FOR THE JUPITER THEY DID.
AND THAT THE ROAD NOISE ALONG THE ROAD EXCEEDED WHAT THEY, WHAT THEY WERE GOING TO.
SO, UM, WATVILLE IS KIND OF AN, AN AN INTERESTING CASE STUDY BECAUSE THE BASE IS RIGHT THERE.
YOU DO HAVE A LOT OF LOW FLYING AIRCRAFT.
YOU DO HAVE A LOT OF, A LOT OF ROAD NOISE.
UM, AND, UH, WHILE I DON'T HAVE A CHART FOR YOU, WE CAN CERTAINLY PROVIDE ONE NEXT, NEXT MONTH, BUT, UH, A LOT OF THE, A LOT OF THE EXAMPLES USED IN A, IN A CHART, FOR EXAMPLE, REGULAR CONVERSATION, THIS IS HOW LOUD A JET ENGINE IS.
THIS IS HOW LOUD FIREWORKS ARE, ROAD NOISE, FOR EXAMPLE.
SO, SO THAT PEOPLE ARE PROVIDED WITH KIND OF EVERYDAY EXAMPLES OF HOW LOUD, YOU KNOW, UH, THE THINGS ARE.
UH, THIS IS NOT SOMETHING THAT YOU ENCOUNTER EVERY DAY, BUT THAT'S WHY WE WANT, THAT'S WHY WE WROTE IN A NOISE STUDY REQUIREMENT, WAS TO MAKE SURE THAT THE ADJACENT OWNERS WERE PROTECTED FROM THAT IN THE JUPITER SCALP ENERGY, UM, UH, EXAMPLE, YOU KNOW, THEY WERE REQUIRED TO DO ACOUSTIC PANELING FOR THEIR, UH, FOR THEIR, UH, UH, FOR THEIR SCREENING OR FOR THEIR, FOR THEIR WALLS BECAUSE THERE WERE RESIDENT RESIDENTS VERY CLOSE BY.
THEY ACTUALLY, THEY, THEY, THAT THEY PROPOSED THAT MM-HMM
I MEAN, THEY OFFERED TO DO THE WALL AROUND IT.
BECAUSE OF THE PROXIMITY OF THE DW, THE TRAILER MOBILE HOMES AND MORE EXPERIENCED AND SOPHISTICATED APPLICANTS WILL, WILL ALREADY HAVE AN IDEA AS TO WHAT THE COMMUNITY'S GONNA SAY ABOUT THEIR PROJECT.
SO THEY JUST WENT AHEAD AND SAID, YEAH, WELL, WE KNOW BECAUSE THERE ARE X NUMBER OF RESIDENCES WITHIN THIS SITE THAT WE SHOULD PROBABLY NOT TRY TO GET AWAY WITHOUT DOING THAT.
THAT WE SHOULD PUT A WALL WITH SOME, UH, UH, SOME, UH, UH, NOISE DAMPENING QUALITIES.
I GUESS I DO HAVE A COMMENT ON, UH, F1 SITE PLAN.
I BELIEVE THE JUPITER, THE FIRE DEPARTMENT, UH, F1 SITE PLAN.
UH, I THINK THE FIRE DEPARTMENT ASKED THEM TO ADD FIRE HYDRANTS TO THEIR SITE PLAN, EITHER FIRE HYDRANTS OR STANDPIPE SYSTEM.
UM, UH, THE, SOMETHING OF THOSE LINES WHERE THEY HOOK UP, DIDN'T KNOW IF WE WANNA ADD THAT IN THERE.
IT COULD GO IN A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT PLACES.
IT COULD GO UNDER SITE PLAN, IT COULD GO UNDER NUMBER FOUR, EMERGENCY RESPONSE PLAN.
UH, BUT BASICALLY, MADAM CHAIR, WHAT YOU'RE, WHAT YOU'RE SUGGESTING IS THAT WE PUT SOME KIND OF, UH, REQUIREMENT IN THERE.
ACTUALLY, IF WE GO DOWN TO, UM, IF WE GO DOWN TO G THREE FIRE SUPPRESSION, IT TALKS A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT.
SO IT COULD ACTUALLY GO IN THERE, BUT THREE, BUT THE G THREE READS FIRE SUPPRESSION.
THE APPLICANT OWNER SHALL PROVIDE ADEQUATE MEASURES FOR EARLY DETECTION AND SUPPRESSION OF A FIRE EVENT, INCLUDING REMOTE MONITORING, FIRE ALARMS, A FIXED WATER SUPPLY, FIRE PROTECTION AGENTS, AND ALL MEASURES REQUIRED BY THE FIRE CODE, UH, FIRE SUPPRESSION MEASURES SHALL BE SUBJECT TO THE APPROVAL OF THE DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC SAFETY OR DESIGNEE.
SO IF YOU WANNA GET MORE SPECIFIC ABOUT THAT, INDICATE A ST.
STANDPIPE SYSTEM OR FIRE HYDRANT THERE.
THE, THE THING WITH FIRE HYDRANTS IS THAT THERE IS NO PUBLIC WATER SOURCE OUT THERE.
SO IT WOULD HAVE TO BE, IT WOULD PROBABLY HAVE TO BE A STANDPIPE SYSTEM THAT THEY WOULD CHARGE WITH A TANKER.
SO WE'LL PUT AN ASTERISK NEXT TO G THREE FOR STANDPIPE SYSTEM.
ON F THREE, UH, NOISE STUDY, YOU SAID NOISE STUDY THAT IT ESTIMATES YOU PEOPLE THAT MEASURE NOISE HAVE CALIBRATED EQUIPMENT AND THEY KNOW, SO ESTIMATE IS A LOOSE TERM FOR THAT.
I MEAN, MAYBE DEFINED WE DON'T WHAT I'M ESTIMATING.
ONE THING THAT THIS, UH, THAT THE ORDINANCE, IF I RECALL, I DO NOT RECALL AN ACTUAL DECIBEL LEVEL NOT TO BE EXCEEDED.
AND IF YOU WOULD LIKE, WE CAN BRING SOME INFORM,
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LIKE I SAID, WE CAN BRING SOME INFORMATION ON, ON WHAT TYPICAL EVENTS OR, OR DEVICES OR WHAT HAVE YOU PRODUCES WHAT LEVEL OF NOISE.WE HAVE A NOISE ORDINANCE IN THE ENVIRONMENTAL SECTION, CHAPTER 38 OF THE COUNTY CODE.
IF WE COULD BRING THAT UP JUST REALLY QUICKLY ON THE JUPITER ONE, WE HAD A LOT, A LOT OF DISCUSSION REGARDING NOISE MM-HMM
THEY, AND, AND THEY, THEY CAME AND GAVE US PRESENTATION ON IT.
AND, UH, AND, AND THERE'S, AS YOU WOULD WHEN YOU HAD THE EXPERT COME, NOISE IS NOT JUST NOISE.
THERE'S DIFFERENT FREQUENCIES.
HE HAD ALL KINDS OF DIFFERENT KINDS, YOU KNOW, AND, AND, UH, SO LIKE THERE'S A JET PASSING BY AND THEN THERE'S THE HUM OF A ELECTRICAL NOISE FOR 24 7.
AND SO, AS, AS YOU HAD MENTIONED, VOLUME IS ONLY ONE ASPECT OF, OF SOUTH.
BUT JUST, JUST TO, UM, JUST TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION ABOUT THE NOISE ORDINANCE, AS I HAD MENTIONED, CHAPTER 38, UM, UH, OF THE COUNTY CODE, WHICH IS NOT, UM, WHICH THIS PART OF CHAPTER 38, MY DEPARTMENT DOES NOT, UH, DOES NOT ENFORCE NOISE, IS ACTUALLY ENFORCED BY THE SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT.
BUT IF YOU'RE INTERESTED IN WHAT OUR, WHAT OUR CURRENT NOISE ORDINANCE SAYS, IT'S CHAPTER 38 OF THE COUNTY CODE.
CAN YOU SCROLL DOWN A LITTLE BIT MORE? I FEEL LIKE THAT THERE'S SOME, THERE'S, I FEEL LIKE THAT THERE'S A CHART IN HERE.
THE SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT HAS A DE METER.
SO THIS TALKS ABOUT THE DIFFERENT, UH, YOU KNOW, IT DOES TALK ABOUT THE DIFFERENT ZONING DISTRICTS, BUT NOBODY HAS INDICATED TO ME THAT WE ARE THE ONES THAT, WE ARE THE ONES THAT ARE CHARGED WITH ENFORCING THIS.
IT'S USUALLY ENFORCED BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY.
ALTHOUGH IT DOES MAKE SE UH, IT DOES MAKE MENTION OF SPECIFIC SOUND LEVELS IN ZONING DISTRICTS.
FOR INSTANCE, IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT INDUSTRIAL, THE PROBLEM IS YOU, YOU GET A REZONING IN THE MIDDLE OF A RESIDENTIAL DISTRICT, THEN SHOULD, SHOULD THAT BE MORE, UH, IN TUNE WITH THE RESIDENTIAL DISTRICT AS OPPOSED TO THE INDUSTRIAL? I HONESTLY COULD NOT TELL YOU THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN 65 DECIBELS IN A, IN A RESIDENTIAL DISTRICT VERSUS 70 DECIBELS IN AN INDUSTRIAL DISTRICT.
I, SO I GUESS THE POINT HERE IS THAT CAN YOU APPROVE SOMETHING LESS STRINGENT THAN WHAT'S THERE? WHEN YOU SAY LESS STRINGENT, YOU MEAN EXCEEDING THE DECIBEL LEVEL? YES.
COULD, COULD YOU, IF, COULD YOUR PROJECT BE APPROVED TO VOID THESE, UH, VALUES HERE? IF A NOISE STUDY IS A REQUIREMENT OF AN, OF A SUBMISSION FOR A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR A BATTERY ENERGY STORAGE SYSTEM, WE WOULD TAKE A LOOK AT THIS CHART AND SAY, THIS IS THE MAXIMUM THAT YOU'RE ALLOWED TO, UH, THAT YOU'RE ALLOWED TO, UH, UH, BASICALLY DISCHARGE IN, IN THIS AREA.
AND IF IT'S, IF IT'S THE, IF IT'S A SIMILAR CASE AS THE JUPITER SCOUT ENERGY WHERE THEY HAD TO GET A, A REZONING TO INDUSTRIAL, BUT THEY'RE ALL SURROUNDED BY AGRICULTURE, AT THAT POINT, I WOULD BE, I WOULD CONSIDER SETTING SOME SORT OF CONDITION, OR IF THEY'RE GOING FOR A REZONING, A PROFFER SAYING THAT EVEN THOUGH YOU'RE ZONED INDUSTRIAL, YOU'RE IN THE MIDDLE OF A RESIDENTIAL OR AGRICULTURAL AREA, WE MAY VERY WELL ASK THEM TO ABIDE BY THAT STANDARD AS OPPOSED TO THE STANDARD.
AND IN THE INDUSTRIAL DISTRICT, IT'S ALL SITUATIONAL, BUT I ONLY OFFER THIS AS, UH, AS A, UM, AS A, AS A POINT OF REFERENCE.
AND, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING TO KNOW AS EVERY THREE DB, THE VOLUME DOUBLES.
SO IF YOU'VE GOT SOMETHING 62 DB AND THEN YOU GO UP TO 65 DB, THAT DOUBLE THE VOLUME PRETTY MUCH.
SO, WE'LL, WE'LL PROVIDE MORE RELATABLE EXAMPLES NEXT TO MONTH.
'CAUSE RIGHT NOW WE ONLY HAVE RESIDENTIAL AG BUSINESS BARRIER ISLAND AND INDUSTRIAL IN A CODE SECTION THAT WE REALLY DON'T, UH, YOU KNOW, THAT WE REALLY DON'T ENFORCE
[00:30:01]
OR ADMINISTER.UM, SO DO WE ADDRESS BATTERY STORAGE? LIKE, UH, THEY MAINTAIN THE BATTERIES, THEY TAKE 'EM OUT.
WE NEED TO KNOW THEY'RE STORAGE, HOW THEY'RE STORING THEM USED BATTERIES AND HOW THEY'RE, UH, ACCESSING THE BATTERIES.
YOU DON'T WANT 'EM LAYING AROUND, I DUNNO, WHERE YOU EXCESS LITHIUM BATTERIES, STORAGE OR REMOVAL OF OLD BATTERIES RIGHT.
HOW YOU ACCESS 'EM? I DON'T KNOW.
WHERE THEY MAY, YOU KNOW, DO THEY NEED A CERTAIN AMOUNT BEFORE THEY SHIP 'EM OUT OR WE'LL HAVE TO FIND OUT FROM THEM.
I MEAN, JUST SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR BATTERY REGULATIONS? I THINK YOU MENTIONED THAT FOR A N UH, AAC THAT THERE ISN'T ANYTHING WRITTEN THERE THAT THEY HAVE TO REVIEW THIS, BUT IT IS DONE.
IS THAT CORRECT? IT'S, IT'S BEST PRACTICE AND THAT'S WHAT WE FOLLOW.
SHOULD IT BE WRITTEN IN THAT DOCUMENT SO THAT IF, YOU KNOW, FIVE YEARS FROM NOW SOMEONE ELSE PICKS THAT UP AND, AND THEY DON'T KNOW TO CONTACT THEM MM-HMM
THAT WOULD ALSO BE IN THE, UH, IN THE REVIEW, UH, IN THE REVIEW FILE.
SO WE, WE KEEP PRETTY GOOD FILES IN TERMS OF OUR REVIEWS FOR, FOR THESE KINDS OF APPLICATIONS.
BUT IF YOU WOULD LIKE FOR THAT TO BE IN THERE, WE CAN DISCUSS THAT NEXT MONTH AS WELL.
ACTUALLY HARD CODING THAT INTO THE, UM, INTO THE ORDINANCE MM-HMM
THAT THEY BE, THAT THEY BE CONSULTED.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? ALL RIGHT.
WE'D LIKE TO MOVE ON TO, UM, B BRIEFING ON THE PROPOSED AMENDMENT FOR TRAVEL TRAILER ZONING.
THIS IS GONNA BE AN, UH, A SHORT
THIS IS GONNA BE A SHORT PRESENTATION AS WELL, GIVEN THAT WE DO NOT HAVE AN INITIATING RESOLUTION YET.
UM, THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS, SO I PRESENTED THIS VERY MATERIAL HERE.
WE JUST COPIED AND PASTED IT FROM THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS AGENDA AND PUT IT IN HERE 'CAUSE IT'S THE EXACT SAME MATERIAL.
BUT THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS IS ANTICIPATED TO, UH, TO PASS AN INITIATING RESOLUTION FOR THE STAFF AND THE PLANNING COMMISSION TO STUDY THIS ISSUE OF THE, UH, PROLIFERATION OF TRAVEL TRAILERS AND RVS THROUGHOUT THE COUNTY.
UM, JUST READING FROM THE SCREEN HERE, UH, THE BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS HAS ALSO DISCUSSED THIS.
AND, UM, MR. GALE SITTING ON BOTH THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND THE BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS HAS, UH, UH, AS A, UH, UH, UM, A UNIQUE INSIGHT INTO THIS ISSUE BECAUSE THE BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS BASICALLY SEES RVS EVERY MONTH.
UH, THEY HAVE DISCUSSED THE NUMBER OF APPLICATIONS, AND THEY ARE, UH, AND, AND THEY'VE ACKNOWLEDGED THAT THE CASELOAD AND THE RESULTING PROLIFERATION OF TRAVEL TRAILERS, UH, THAT THERE IS A GREAT PROLIFERATION OF TRAVEL TRAILERS, BOTH LEGAL AND ILLEGAL.
SO THERE ARE FOLKS WHO DO COME IN AND GET THEIR SPECIAL USE PERMIT FOR TRAVEL TRAILERS, WHETHER THEY'RE BUILDING A HOUSE AND THEY WANT A TEMPORARY ONE, OR THEY WANT SOMETHING A LITTLE BIT LONGER TERM.
UM, UH, IF WE COULD GO BACK UP TO, IF WE COULD SCROLL BACK UP TO, THERE WE GO.
UM, THE, THERE, THERE WERE FIVE GENERAL, UH, ISSUES THAT I PRESENTED TO THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS THAT I'LL ALSO PRESENT HERE.
THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, UH, ISSUES REGARDING PROLIFERATION INCLUDE PUBLIC SAFETY.
AND WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THERE IS, UM, IS THE SAFETY OF THOSE WHO ARE, WHO PROPOSE THESE, PARTICULARLY IN ENVIRONMENTAL AREAS, UM, AND FLOODPLAINS, SO THAT IF THEY'RE, IF THERE'S A FLASH FLOOD, THEN WILL THEY BE ABLE TO GET OUT IN TIME? UM, UH, ENVIRONMENTAL AND FLOODPLAIN REGULATION, SOMETIMES FOLKS COME IN AND THEY JUST PUT THEM WHEREVER THEY WANT, REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE ENVIRONMENTAL REGULATIONS SAY.
SO IF THEY'RE PUTTING THEM IN THE, UH, RESOURCE PROTECTION AREA OR THE RPA, WHICH IN OUR WORLD IS NOT TO BE VIOLATED FOR ANY REASON WITHOUT SOME SORT OF REVIEW, THEN THAT'S AN ISSUE.
AGAIN, FLOODPLAIN IS, UH, YOU KNOW, THAT'S, THAT IS AN ISSUE OF, UH, OF SAFETY FOR THE OCCUPANTS OF THE TRAVEL
[00:35:01]
TRAILER ITSELF.BUT IF A FLOOD COMES IN AND DISLODGES THAT UNIT AND IT JUST FLOATS AND IT STARTS TO, UM, AND IT, AT THAT POINT IT BECOMES A PROJECTILE THAT MAY VERY WELL INJURE OR DAMAGE, UH, YOU KNOW, INJURE, INJURE PEOPLE OR DAMAGE PROPERTY, UH, WASTE DISPOSAL.
SOMETIMES WE FIND THAT THEY'RE NOT CONNECTED TO, OH, UH, TO A, UH, UH, A WATER SOURCE, BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY TO SOME SORT OF SEPTIC TANK OR THAT THEY'RE NOT GETTING THEM, UH, IF THEY'RE NOT GETTING THEM, UH, UH, EVACUATED, YOU KNOW, THEIR, UH, THEIR, UM, UH, THEIR WASTEWATER TANKS.
THAT'S ALSO AN ISSUE OF, UH, OF HEALTH DENSITY.
WE HAD ONE APPLICATION WHERE SOMEONE HAD COME IN AND ASKED FOR 12 RVS ON A TWO ACRE PIECE OF PROPERTY.
THE STAFF RECOMMENDED APPROVAL OF THAT.
UM, OR I'M SORRY, RECOMMENDED DENIAL OF THAT.
AND THAT WAS, THAT WAS A, UH, A DIFFERENT KIND OF APPLICATION BECAUSE I HAD NEVER SEEN AN APPLICATION LIKE THAT.
AND ALSO DOING THE RESEARCH OF THE, OF THE, UH, OF THE STAFF AT BZA WORKLOAD OR CASELOAD.
I HAD NEVER SEEN AN APPLICATION LIKE THAT.
SO THAT WAS AN INTERESTING ONE ON SSIS ROAD, LEE, I BELIEVE IT WAS OFF OF SSIS ROAD.
AND FIFTH, THE GENERAL INCOMPATIBILITY OF RVS AND THE PROLIFERATION OF RVS WITH THE COUNTY'S RURAL CHARACTER.
UM, WE HAVE JUST ANECDOTALLY NOTED AN INCREASE IN THESE.
AND, UM, AND, UH, WE, YOU KNOW, THE WHOLE POINT BEHIND THIS ORDINANCE IS TO PROVIDE STAFF TO PROVIDE THE BCA WITH MORE, UH, WITH MORE SPECIFIC GUIDANCE, AND ALSO THE AUTHORITY TO DENY THESE, UH, TO MAKE IT A LITTLE BIT EASIER BECAUSE PRACTICE HAS BEEN TO, UH, TO ALLOW THEM ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS.
SO, UH, WHAT THE STAFF PROPOSES IS TO, UH, IS TO STUDY POTENTIAL ZONING ORDINANCE AMENDMENTS IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE PLANNING COMMISSION.
I'M SURE THAT THE BZA WILL ALSO OFFER SOME COMMENTS AS WELL.
BUT, UM, UH, THOSE ARE THE ISSUES THAT WE INTEND TO, UH, TO THROW IN THE HOPPER.
IF WE COULD SCROLL DOWN A LITTLE BIT.
UH, THESE TWO, UH, UH, THESE TWO TABLES HERE WERE ORDERED LAST MONTH.
SO AS FAR AS THE NUMBER OF BZA CASES AS OF OCTOBER OF 2025, UH, WE, WE'VE HAD 26 APPLICATIONS FOR TRAVEL TRAILER SINCE JANUARY OF 2021.
LIKEWISE, IN TERMS OF CODE ENFORCEMENT CASES, UH, I BELIEVE THAT FIGURE TOTALS TO 200 AND, UH, I HAD THAT WRITTEN DOWN SOMEWHERE ELSE, AND I SHOULD HAVE TOTALED IT HERE, BUT IT'S OVER 200, UH, IT'S OVER 200, UH, NOTICES OF VIOLATIONS JUST FOR RVS ALONE.
SO IF WE COULD SCROLL DOWN A LITTLE BIT MORE, UM, WE TALK ABOUT THE DEFINITION OF THE TRAVEL TRAILER, AND WE ALSO INDICATE HERE IN THE STAFF REPORT THAT TRAVEL TRAILERS ARE ALLOWED BY SPECIAL USE PERMIT IN THE AG AND RESIDENTIAL DISTRICTS.
NOW, UM, UH, ONE OF THE, UH, ONE OF THE LOOPHOLES THAT IS ALSO IN THE ORDINANCE IS EXACTLY WHAT IT SAYS HERE.
SO, A USE OF LAND NOT SPECIFICALLY LISTED AS A USE, PERMITTED BY RIGHT, OR SPECIAL EXCEPTION, UH, WHICH IS CLEARLY SIMILAR AND COMPATIBLE WITH USES LISTED THEREIN.
AND, UM, AND THAT LANGUAGE HAS BEEN USED TO, UH, TO TRY TO SHOEHORN THESE INTO A CATEGORY WHERE SOMEONE CAN ACTUALLY APPLY FOR THESE.
UH, WE WANT TO TAKE A, WE WANT TO TAKE A CLOSE LOOK AT THIS LANGUAGE.
IT NOT ONLY AFFECTS RVS, BUT IT COULD AFFECT OTHER USES AS WELL.
AND TO HAVE A LOOPHOLE LIKE THIS IN THE ORDINANCE, UH, UM, IT'S AN INVITATION FOR, UH, QUITE FRANKLY, IT'S AN INVITATION FOR ABUSE.
SO WHAT WE WANT TO DO IS TO, UH, IS TO KIND OF TIGHTEN UP THE LANGUAGE, TIGHTEN UP THE ORDINANCE SO THAT WE'VE GOT A, WE'VE GOT BETTER CONTROL OVER THESE.
THAT CONCLUDES MY PRESENTATION, AND I CAN FIELD OF ANY QUESTIONS AT THIS TIME.
UH, UM, SO OFTEN IN THESE CASES, WE HEAR WHERE THEY'VE, THEY'RE DEALING WITH, YOU KNOW, THEY'VE GOT A PORTABLE WASTE COLLECTION UNIT, AND, UH, AND THEIR WATER.
IS IT, IS IT POSSIBLE THAT THEY BE REQUIRED TO HAVE LIKE A WELL IN SEPTIC?
[00:40:04]
I'D HAVE TO THINK ABOUT THAT, MR. GALE, BECAUSE IF WE WERE REQUIRE THEM TO HAVE WELL IN SEPTIC, THEN ARE WE NOT INVITING THEM TO BE A MORE PERMANENT FIXTURE ON THAT PIECE OF PROPERTY? I THINK THAT THERE ARE DIFFERENT WAYS OF LOOKING AT THAT.AND, AND I'VE OFTEN SAID THAT I'M SURE THE MANUFACTURERS OF THESE TRAILERS, SOME OF THE, THE NICER ONES WILL SAY, WOULD TAKE EXCEPTION THAT THEY'RE NOT FOR TEMPORARY AVITATION, BECAUSE IN, IN MY TRAVELS, I'VE SEEN CONSTRUCTION COMPANIES USE THESE ALL THE TIME.
OF COURSE, THEY GO TO TRAILER PARKS, OF COURSE, AND STAY THERE, AND, YOU KNOW, THESE GUYS COME THERE AND LIVE FOR EXTENDED PERIODS OF TIME ON CONSTRUCTION PROJECTS.
UH, BUT, YOU KNOW, UH, UH, AGAIN, YOU KNOW, WE'VE BEEN THROUGH THIS WITH THE HOUSES THAT SOME OF THESE TRAILERS ARE VERY EXPENSIVE AND, AND WE'VE ADVISED PEOPLE, WHY DON'T YOU PUT A MOBILE HOME BY THE TIME YOU BUY THE TRAILER AND ALL THAT, THE LITTLE TRAVEL TRAILER AND DO THAT, YOU MIGHT AS WELL JUST PUT IN A MORE PERMANENT STRUCTURE.
YOU KNOW, AND GO THROUGH THAT.
THEN YOU DON'T HAVE TO DEAL WITH THE BZA OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.
THE, I GUESS THE NOTION OF TEMPORARY VERSUS PERMANENT MM-HMM
WHEN, WHEN THESE ARE APPROVED ON A TEMPORARY BASIS, THEY TEND TO BECOME PERMANENT MM-HMM
AND PART OF THAT IS, UH, IS HOW THE PERMIT IS WRITTEN, BUT PART OF IT IS ALSO WHEN WE, WHEN WE DO THESE, WE ALSO HAVE TO MONITOR THOSE SITES.
AND, UH, YOU KNOW, IF, IF THESE, WHETHER THEY ARE TOP OF THE LINE MODELS OR MORE MID TO, UH, YOU KNOW, TO TO LOWER LEVEL MODELS, I DON'T THINK THAT REALLY MATTERS IN TERMS OF, UH, IN TERMS OF THE IMPACT TO, YOU KNOW, THE, THE, THE RURAL CHARACTER IS THE ONE THAT I, THAT I HEAR A LOT ABOUT IS CROMACK IS STARTING TO LOOK LIKE A TRAILER PARK OR STARTING TO LOOK LIKE AN RV PARK WITH ALL THE RVS, UH, KIND OF SCATTERED THROUGHOUT THE COUNTY.
AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO ADDRESS.
I REMEMBER DURING COVID, THEY THAT WE HAD A QUITE A PROBLEM WITH RVS HERE.
UH, PEOPLE WERE TRYING TO ESCAPE FROM THE CITIES.
THEY BUY AN RV AND PUT IN A LITTLE PIECE OF LAND, DIG A HOLE, PUT THE SEPTIC TO IN A WHOLE, AND THAT WAS IT.
AND SOME OF THE NEIGHBORS WERE GETTING A LITTLE UPSET ABOUT IT.
AND I REMEMBER IT IN THE PLANNING MEETING AND TALKING ABOUT, WE JUST DON'T HAVE THE PERSONNEL TO ENFORCE ALL THESE VIOLATIONS.
WELL, THIS IS GOING TO TAKE MORE THAN JUST AN ORDINANCE AMENDMENT.
THIS IS GOING TO TAKE, UH, THIS IS GONNA TAKE PUBLIC NOTICE.
THIS IS GONNA TAKE TALKING WITH OTHER STAKEHOLDERS LIKE THE RV DEALERSHIPS, UM, UH, CERTAINLY THE, UM, REAL ESTATE PROFESSIONALS IN THE AREA WHO SELL PROPERTY, WHERE SOMEONE MAY COME TO THEM AND SAY, HEY, I WANT TO, I WANT TO ESCAPE CITY LIVING.
DO YOU HAVE A PIECE OF AGRICULTURALLY ZONED PROPERTY THAT'S OUT OF THE WAY WHERE I CAN PUT AN RV ON? AND THEN WE KIND OF LOSE CONTROL AT THAT POINT, WHICH IS WHY WE WOULD NEED TO SPEAK WITH THOSE OTHER STAKEHOLDER.
UM, UH, THOSE OTHER STAKEHOLDER GROUPS LIKE THE, UH, REAL ESTATE AGENTS AND THOSE WHO SELL THESE, BUT THE, THE MAJORITY OF THESE, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE NOT USED.
YOU KNOW, SOME PEOPLE COME HERE FOR MAYBE HUNTING SEASON AND THAT'S IT.
YOU KNOW, UH, AND THEY EITHER MOVE THE TRAILER OUT, OR MOST CASES THEY LEAVE THE TRAILERS THERE.
AND THERE'S BEEN MULTIPLE ISSUES AND CASES WITH THAT ALL OVER THE COUNTY.
UH, BUT AGAIN, IT'S, IT'S A REGULATORY DILEMMA IN THAT HOW DO YOU KNOW THEY'VE ONLY BEEN THERE FOR 10 DAYS IN ONE YEAR? RIGHT.
YOU KNOW, AND YET IF SOMEBODY BUYS A LOT AND THEY SAY, YOU KNOW, JUST FOR STARTERS, I WANT TO JUST, YOU KNOW, PARK MY TRAVEL TRAILER THERE AND COME THERE AND HANG OUT FOR A COUPLE OF WEEKENDS A YEAR, YOU KNOW, AND THEN YOU SAY, WELL, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN'T, YOU CAN'T DO THAT.
YOU KNOW, IT'S WHEN THEY DECIDE THEY LEAVE THOSE THERE BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT TO BRING IT BACK, OR THEY DON'T WANT TO STORE IT AT THEIR HOUSE, IN EFFECT, NOT ONLY DOES IT BECOME AN RV PARK, IT BECOMES A STORAGE YARD AS WELL.
SO THERE, THERE ARE OTHER CONSIDERATIONS WITH THE, WITH THE RVS.
[00:45:01]
THEY, THEY TEND TO INVITE OTHER, YOU KNOW, UH, OTHER USES, IF YOU WILL.BUT THIS ONLY APPLIES IF THERE'S NO RESIDENT THERE.
I MEAN, IF I HAVE A HOUSE THERE, THEN THIS ORDINANCE DOESN'T APPLY TO ME.
IF I HAVE A TRAVEL TRAILER THAT GETS INTO A LITTLE BIT OF A GRAY AREA, MR. PETIT, BECAUSE, UM, UH, SAY FOR INSTANCE, YOU HAVE A HOUSE, UH, SOMEWHERE OUT THERE, AND YOU ALSO OWN AN RV, IF YOU'RE PARKING THAT THERE JUST TO PARK IT, UH, NOT A PROBLEM.
WHEN ONE LISTS THAT RV ON AIRBNB AS, AS AN AMENITY THAT SOMEONE CAN RENT FOR THE WEEKEND, THAT BECOMES A PROBLEM.
OR IF, UH, YOU KNOW, IF WE NOTICE THAT SOMEONE, YOU KNOW, IF IT'S, UH, IF, IF WE DRIVE BY THERE AND WE, AND, AND OUR ZONING INSPECTORS DO DRIVE AROUND AT NIGHT TO SEE IF THEY'VE BEEN ASKED TO, TO KIND OF, YOU KNOW, TO KIND OF VARY THEIR HOURS SO THAT THEY CAN SEE WHAT'S GOING ON AT NIGHT AS WELL, THEN THAT BECOMES PRETTY OBVIOUS THAT SOMEONE IS, UH, IS LIVING IN THERE AND THEY'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO DO THAT.
YOU KNOW, EVEN, YOU KNOW, EVEN IF YOU, UH, IF YOU OWN THAT AND SOMEONE IS LIVING IN THERE, THAT'S, THAT'S A NO NO.
AND, AND THERE ARE CASES WHERE YES, PEOPLE HAVE EITHER HAD SOMEBODY OR, YOU KNOW, RENTED IT OR NOT, BUT MOVED SOMEBODY IN THERE FOR, FOR LONG-TERM HABITATION MM-HMM
AND YET YOU COULD HAVE A FAMILY REUNION AND SAY, I'M GONNA HAVE A BUNCH OF FAMILY IN HERE AND I'M GONNA PUT 'EM IN MY TRAILER FOR THE WEEKEND.
SO, WHICH IS A, YOU KNOW, LOGICAL THING, YOU KNOW, DON'T, DON'T GET A HOTEL, COME HERE AND STAY IN MY TRAILER IN THE BACKYARD FOR THE WEEKEND.
SO I WOULD SAY USE BLACKOUT CURTAINS IN THAT CASE.
AND, AND YOU KNOW, I'VE SEEN TRAILERS THERE AND NEXT THING YOU KNOW, I'VE SEEN IT MOVED AND THERE'S A HOSE RUNNING ACROSS THE YARD AND TUBE GOING OUT TO THE COLLECTION THING.
YOU KNOW, THE, THE, WITH THE WHEELS ON THEM, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE LIKE 30 GALLONS OR WHATEVER, AT LEAST THEY'RE DOING THAT.
AND, AND COLLECTING IT, AND IT STAYS THERE FOR AN EXTENDED PERIOD OF TIME.
UM, IT, IT'S, WE GET ALL KINDS OF MM-HMM
UH, PEOPLE BRING ALL KINDS OF SCENARIOS TO US WITH THE RVS.
I'M BUILDING A HOUSE OR I'M ABOUT TO BE HOMELESS.
YOU KNOW, THOSE ARE KIND OF THE TWO, THE TWO ENDS OF THE SPECTRUM THERE.
UH, I ONLY COME HERE A COUPLE OF WEEKENDS A YEAR TO GO HUNTING OR FISHING OR WHATEVER, BUT I WANT TO LEAVE MY UNIT HERE.
CAN I DO THAT? UM, UH, THERE ARE, THERE ARE A LOT OF SITUATIONS THAT ONE MIGHT WRITE INTO THE ORDINANCE, BUT MY CONCERN IS THAT ONCE WE START CARVING OUT FOR SPECIFIC INSTANCES, OR WE START CARVING OUT FOR SPECIAL INTERESTS, IS IT'S, IT'S STILL NOT GOING TO ACCOMPLISH WHAT WE NEEDED TO ACCOMPLISH, WHICH IS TO REDUCE THE PROLIFERATION OF RVS OR TO AT LEAST NOT TO EXACERBATE IT.
SO, TO YOUR POINT, MR. SPARKMAN, LIKE I SAY, BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU ASK FOR.
SO THE BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS REQUESTED THAT WE NEEDED A, AN ENFORCEMENT ARM TO FACILITATE THIS.
SO WE GOT MIKE MILLBURN, AND HE'S DONE A REALLY GOOD JOB.
AS YOU CAN SEE, HE'S BEEN VERY, VERY BUSY AND, AND HE'S DUG UP ALL OF THIS STUFF.
SO NOW IT'S ALL COMING IN, COMING IN, AND, YOU KNOW, THERE'S, THERE'S, UH, IT'S JUST OPENED UP ALL OF THIS AND, AND I DON'T KNOW HOW WE'RE GOING TO DEAL WITH IT OTHER THAN RAMP THIS UP AND, YOU KNOW, GET IT CLEANED UP OVER A PERIOD OF TIME.
WELL, UH, LIKE I SAID, WE, UH, WE ANTICIPATE THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS PASSING AND INITIATING RESOLUTION TO OFFICIALLY TURN US LOOSE ON THIS ISSUE.
AND WE, WE EXPECT THAT NEXT WEEK.
UM, YOU KNOW, UH, IT'S CERTAINLY A LOT TO THINK ABOUT.
WE KNOW THAT IT'S A HOT BUTTON TOPIC WITH BOTH THE CITIZENS AND THE FOLKS WHO WANT TO LOCATE RVS HERE IN AKIMA COUNTY.
BUT, UH, YOU KNOW, UH, OVER THE PAST,
[00:50:02]
WELL, WE'LL SAY, UH, LEADING UP TO AUGUST OF THIS YEAR, UM, THE JUNE, JULY TIMEFRAME, JUNE, JULY, AUGUST TIMEFRAME, I HAD HEARD FROM THREE SEPARATE SUPERVISORS THAT THIS WAS SOMETHING THAT THEY WANTED TO DISCUSS.SO, UH, SO THAT'S WHY WE ARE ASKING THEM FOR AN INITIATING RESOLUTION.
'CAUSE WHEN YOU'VE GOT THREE SUPERVISORS WHO CONSIDERED THIS AN ISSUE, IT NEEDS TO BE LOOKED AT.
BECAUSE, AND I WANNA ASK ABOUT THAT BECAUSE WHAT IF SOMEONE COME IN, A RESIDENTIAL AREA TO PULL A TRAILER IN IS ACTUALLY DISGUISED, HOWEVER, IT, IT IS POSSIBLY DISCOVERED THAT NO ONE'S LIVING IN IT, BUT THEN IT'S BEING UTILIZED FOR SOMETHING DIFFERENT.
NOT SURE WHAT IT'S BEING UTILIZED FOR, BUT IT'S NOT EVEN BEING UTILIZED AS A RV, BUT WHEN YOU DRIVE BY IT, THAT'S WHAT YOU SEE.
UH, NO PERMITS, NO TALKING TO NEIGHBORS, JUST DRAG IT IN THE COMMUNITY, PARK IT AND LEAVE IT, OR DOING WHATEVER IS GOING ON WITH IT.
IN, IN THAT CASE, OUR CODE ADMINISTRATION FOLKS, AND THAT INCLUDES THE, THE BUILDING INSPECTORS AND THE ZONING INSPECTORS, THE CODE ADMINISTRATION FOLKS, THEY WOULD TAKE A LOOK AT THAT AND THEY WOULD ESSENTIALLY KNOCK ON THE DOOR AND SAY, HEY, WHAT'S GOING ON HERE? UH, SOMETIMES WE GET THE TRUTH, SOMETIMES WE GET A STORY, AND THAT WOULD JUST ENTAIL A LITTLE BIT MORE OBSERVATION AND A LITTLE BIT MORE INVESTIGATION AS TO WHAT'S REALLY GOING ON HERE.
WE DO NOT HAVE THE STAFF TO SIT ON A, TO SIT ON A PROPERTY JUST TO SEE WHAT'S GOING ON.
BUT IF IT, IF ON THE FACE OF IT IT LOOKS LIKE A VIOLATION, THEY'RE MORE THAN LIKELY.
AND IF THEY DON'T ADDRESS IT SOMEHOW WITH US, THEN MORE THAN LIKELY THEY WOULD GET A NOTICE OF VIOLATION.
ESPECIALLY IF IT'S PURSUANT TO A NEIGHBOR'S COMPLAINT.
DO YOU HAVE A COMMENT? I'M SORRY.
WELL, I WAS GONNA SAY, MR. MR. PAM HAS HEARD THIS FROM ME SO MANY TIMES.
I, I, I, HE'S PROBABLY GOT IT COMMITTED TO MEMORY, BUT THIS, THIS PA PAST COUPLE OF YEARS, I WENT UP TO NEW YORK STATE IN THE FINGER LAKES AREA AND STAYED AT A LOCATION AT ONE LAKE.
AND MOST EVERY HOUSE ALL ALONG THERE HAD TRAILERS NEXT TO IT.
SO THERE WAS A HOUSE AND A TRAILER, AND PEOPLE WERE LIVING IN BOTH, YOU KNOW, THERE WERE WEEKEND PLACES, SUMMER COTTAGES.
I EVEN SAW WHERE YOU COULD CALL UP A BUSINESS.
THEY WOULD BRING A TRAILER TO YOU AND PARK IT THERE FOR THE WEEKEND.
YOU RENT THE TRAILER FOR THE WEEKEND.
THEY COME BACK ON MONDAY AND PICK IT UP AND HAUL IT AWAY.
WE WENT OVER THE HILL TO ANOTHER COUNTY IN ANOTHER LAKE, AND I ASKED THE PEOPLE THERE, I SAID, THERE ARE NO TRAILERS HERE.
SO IT JUST GOES TO SHOW HOW, YOU KNOW, DIFFERENT LOCALITIES HANDLE IT.
YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S ANY RENTAL AGENCIES AROUND HERE.
I HAVEN'T SEEN OR HEARD OF ANY OF THAT THERE, BUT THIS IS A, A, A, YOU KNOW, A A RESORT AREA MORE OR LESS.
AND THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT THEY, THEY HAVE A FLEET OF TRAILERS THEY RENT OUT.
YOU CALL 'EM UP, THEY BRING IT TO YOU, THEY SET IT UP, LEVEL IT, HOOK IT UP TO THE POWER AND WATER AND LEAVE IT THERE FOR THE WEEKEND.
ALL THE WASTE IS STORED ON THE TRAILER AND THEY HAUL IT AWAY.
WELL, I CAN TELL YOU A CLASSIC EXAMPLE OF WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT IS TRAILS AND THE CAMPGROUND THERE THAT PEOPLE ARE LIVING IN ALL YEAR ROUND OFF OF HORN TOWN THERE.
AND WE USED TO CALL IT THE WILD WEST BECAUSE THEY HAD NO BUILDING LIKE RULES OR ANYTHING.
AND THEY DID ALL KINDS OF WILD THINGS, YOU KNOW, AS FAR AS CONSTRUCTION AND LIVING THERE.
AND IT WASN'T SUPPOSED TO BE THAT WAY AT ALL.
TRAILS END IS A, IS A, IS A DIFFERENT KIND OF SITUATION.
YOU'RE, YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT ABOUT THAT.
I GUESS MY COMMENT IS, YOU KNOW, THROUGH
[00:55:01]
THE FAST FIVE OR SIX YEARS WE'VE BEEN CRACKING DOWN ON TRAVEL TRAILERS AND I SEE MORE PEOPLE LIVING IN LAWNMOWER SHEDS.SO, I MEAN, A TRAVEL TRAILER IS A HUNDRED TIMES BETTER THAN A LAWN MOWER SHED SHED.
SO ARE WE, YOU GOTTA THINK ABOUT THAT WHEN WE MAKE THESE RULES.
DO YOU WANT PEOPLE LIVING IN LAWNMOWER SHEDS OR WOULD YOU LIKE THEM TO HAVE SOMEWHAT OF A SMALL LITTLE HOME? I DON'T KNOW.
DID YOU EVER HEAR THAT MOUNT LAUREL'S DECISION AS FAR AS UP INTO NEW JERSEY? THAT'S WHERE IT COME FROM.
UH, THIS STEMS FROM MOUNT LAUREL, WHICH WAS A COMMUNITY THAT HAS PRICEY HOUSING.
SOME GUY COME IN THERE AND SAID, I'M PUTTING A TRAILER PARK IN THE CENTER OF YOUR COMMUNITY.
WELL, YOU CAN IMAGINE IF PEOPLE TOOK A GAS PIPE, YOU KNOW, OH MY GOD, MY HOUSING VALUES WILL GO THROUGH THE FLOOR AND EVERYTHING.
THE APPLICANT WON, WENT ALL THE WAY TO NEW JERSEY SUPREME COURT.
IT'S CALLED THE MOUNT LAW DECISION.
AND WHAT IT IS, IS YOU CAN'T USE YOUR ZONING LAWS TO WALL OUT POOR PEOPLE.
WHAT YOU WERE JUST TALKING ABOUT, ABOUT LAWNMOWER SHED VERSUS TRAILER.
AND YOU KNOW, THE GUY SAYS, I HAVE NOWHERE TO LIVE.
YOU KNOW, SO YOU GET INTO, ARE YOU USING YOUR ZONING LAWS THAT KEEP OUT POOR PEOPLE OR PEOPLE YOU DEEM UNDESIRABLE BASICALLY DO WITH SENIOR CITIZENS TOO, YOU KNOW, SO THAT'S KIND OF AN INTERESTING, UH, THAT MIGHT BE YOU STATE, STATE OF VIRGINIA, I'M SURE FACED THOSE KINDS OF CHALLENGES.
BUT HOW DID THEY, HOW HAVE THEY RULED? WELL, UM, AS PART OF ANY ORDINANCE, AMENDMENT OR, OR LEGAL DEPARTMENT OR COUNTY ATTORNEY REVIEWS THIS.
SO, UM, IF, IF THERE IS THAT CONSIDERATION HERE IN THE COMMONWEALTH OF VIRGINIA, THEN IT WILL COME TO LIGHT.
BUT YOU KNOW, WE'RE NOT GONNA SOLVE THAT TONIGHT.
UM, AND UH, YOU KNOW, UH, THIS IS JUST AN INTRODUCTION TO THE ISSUE THAT IT IS FINALLY COMING BACK AROUND AND, UM, AND, UH, WE'LL BRING MORE TO YOU NEXT MONTH.
I DO YOU HAVE ONE MORE COMMENT? YES, MA'AM.
SO, UM, RICH THREW AROUND THAT WHEN YOU GOT A BUILDING PERMIT THAT YOU WOULD AUTOMATICALLY GET ONE YEAR, UH, TRAVEL TRAILER MM-HMM
YOU KNOW, AUTOMATICALLY AND YOU WOULDN'T HAVE TO GO TO THE BORDER ZONE APPEALS.
YOU REMEMBER THAT, WHERE THEY WERE DISCUSSING MM-HMM
THAT IF YOU BOUGHT A BUILDING PERMIT AND WERE PLANNING ON BUILDING A HOUSE AND BUYING A SEW WORM, WELL, THAT YOU COULD GET A YEAR PERMIT FOR A TRAVEL TRAILER.
THEY WOULDN'T HAVE TO GO TO BORDER ZONE AND APPEALS AND THEY WASTE THEIR TIME.
IT WOULD JUST BE AUTOMATIC HOOKED UP TOO.
AND I, I THINK THAT IS ONE INSTANCE THAT WE LOOK AT ADDRESSING IN, IN AN ORDINANCE AMENDMENT.
'CAUSE RIGHT NOW IT'S NOT WRITTEN AS SUCH.
NOTHING IS REALLY WRITTEN IN TERMS OF RVS EXCEPT FOR WHAT YOU BASICALLY SEE HERE ON THE SCREEN, WHICH ISN'T MUCH.
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I LIKE TO SEE WHEN, WHEN, AND, AND, AND WE HAVE SEEN IT AND UH, MAYBE IT COULD BE PUT IN THERE, IS THAT THEY HAVE, BEFORE THEY CAN PUT THE TRAILER THERE, AT LEAST FOR BUILDING A HOUSE, THAT THEY HAVE A FOUNDATION DONE.
NOT, NOT JUST A BUILDING PERMIT.
ANYBODY CAN GET A BUILDING PERMIT AND IT'S GOOD FOR A CERTAIN PERIOD OF TIME, BUT HAVE A FOUNDATION PUT IN.
THAT CERTAINLY, CERTAINLY IS A MONETARY EXPENSE.
AND, AND, AND THE INTENT IS TO, AND, AND THE INTENT BEHIND SUCH AN ORDINANCE AMENDMENT IS TO BASICALLY HOLD THEM ACCOUNTABLE TO WHAT THEY TOLD US THEY WERE GONNA DO.
'CAUSE WE DO GET FOLKS WHO COME IN AND SAY, I'M GONNA PULL A BUILDING PERMIT TO REHAB THIS HOUSE OR TO BUILD THAT HOUSE.
AND THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN THEY SAY THEY RUN INTO FINANCIAL TROUBLE.
AND THEN IT BECOMES A SUBJECT, A MATTER OF ABUSE OF THE ORDINANCE OR ABUSE OF THE PREVENT MM-HMM
AND THAT IS SOMETHING THAT, UH, THAT WE AS THE STAFF WANT TO KEEP A, A PRETTY TIGHT RAIN ON.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR TRAVEL TRAILERS? JUST JUST ONE MORE COMMENT.
YOU KNOW, WE'VE HAD 'EM WHERE THEY COME IN AND THE, WE GAVE THEM FOR THE TRAVEL TRAILER
[01:00:01]
AND OF COURSE RIGHT THEN WAS COVID AND THEN EVERYBODY BLAMED EVERYTHING ON COVID MM-HMMAND SO IT CAME BACK FOR AN EXTENSION.
AND AT THE BEGINNING THEY WERE ADVISED, WHY DON'T YOU JUST BUY A MOBILE HOME AND PUT IN THERE, THEN YOU DON'T HAVE TO COME BACK AND SEE US.
AND WHEN YOU GET YOUR HOUSE IN, YOU SELL THE MOBILE HOME.
AND, AND YOU KNOW, THEY BOUGHT A TRAVEL TRAILER IN THIS PARTICULAR, THEY BOUGHT IT.
WELL, THEY COULD'VE BOUGHT A MOBILE HOME FOR THAT, AND THEN THEY HAD TO COME BACK IN TWO YEARS AND, AND GET IT EXTENDED.
BUT I'D AGAIN, THAT IF, YOU KNOW, NOT JUST A BUILDING PERMIT, HAVE A FOUNDATION AND, AND NO SPECIFIC INSTANCE FOR HOME BUILDING.
MAYBE A, A WELL AND SEPTIC WITH IT.
WELL, THAT'S UNDER THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT.
I'M JUST BOILER PLATE
WE CAN MOVE ON TO OTHER MATTERS DE BUILDINGS.
UM, THIS WAS BROUGHT TO, UH, BROUGHT TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION THIS EVENING BY, BY VIRTUE OF IT VOTING TO ADD THIS.
SO I AM ACTUALLY GOING TO TURN IT BACK OVER TO YOU SINCE IT, IT WASN'T A STAFF AGENDA ITEM.
WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING PREPARED FOR THIS.
SO MYRA, COME TO ME AND ASKED, WE DO, UH, HOW WE, UM, MAKE REGULATIONS.
AND I'M ASSUMING THAT WE WOULD HAVE TO GO TO THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS AND SEE IF THEY HAVE INTEREST IN, UM, THAT I DO KNOW IN THE PAST THAT, UM, WE'VE HAD $150,000 TO SPEND AND YOUR GROUP WOULD FACILITATE THAT AND YOU DIDN'T GET VERY FAR WITH $150,000.
WE HAVE $50,000 FOR DANGEROUS STRUCTURES.
THERE'S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN DANGEROUS STRUCTURES AND DERELICT STRUCTURES.
YOUR TERM THAT YOU USED IS DERELICT STRUCTURES.
SO, UM, YOU KNOW, THE, THE MONEY THAT WE HAVE WAS INTENDED TO ADDRESS IMMEDIATELY CONCERNING DANGEROUS STRUCTURES THAT WOULD HAVE A THREAT TO THE PUBLIC SAFETY WE HAD ONE OF OVER THE WEEKEND.
AS A MATTER OF FACT, UM, THAT'S NOT GOING BE ADDRESSED WITH COUNTY MONEY.
THE, THE PROPERTY OWNER WILL BE ADDRESSING THAT THEMSELVES.
BUT I DO WANT TO JUST MAKE THAT DISTINCTION BETWEEN DERELICT STRUCTURES, WHICH IS WHAT MYRA IS TALKING ABOUT, VERSUS DANGEROUS STRUCTURES WHICH MAY HAVE, UH, UH, AN, AN IMPENDING IMPACT ON PUBLIC SAFETY.
HOW WOULD YOU DO THAT? UH, WHEN DOES, UH, WHEN DOES A DANGER DANGEROUS STRUCTURE BECOME, UH, THE LINEAGE FROM A DERELICT STRUCTURE? BECAUSE YOU CAN GET HURT IN A DERELICT STRUCTURE.
A DERELICT STRUCTURE MAY STILL BE STRUCTURALLY SOUND, BUT MAYBE IT'S GOT, UH, MAYBE IT'S GOT SOME SIDING FALLING OFF OF IT.
IT'S GOT SOME, SOME ISSUES WITH AESTHETICS OR, OR, OR WHAT HAVE YOU.
BUT A DANGEROUS STRUCTURE, UM, LET'S TAKE THE EXAMPLE THAT WE HAD LAST WEEK ON ON FRIDAY.
I WAS MADE AWARE OF IT AROUND, UH, ONE OR TWO O'CLOCK ON FRIDAY AFTERNOON.
AND THE WHOLE REST OF THE AFTERNOON WAS SPENT ADDRESSING THAT, UH, A DANGEROUS STRUCTURE THAT MAY BE LEANING PRETTY CLOSE TO THE ROAD OR MAY HAVE AN IMPACT ON A, ON A POWER LINE, FOR EXAMPLE.
WHEREAS A DERELICT STRUCTURE ISN'T IMMEDIATELY IMPACTING THE PUBLIC.
MAYBE IT MAY FALL IN ON ITS OWN, UH, BUT IT'S NOT SET SO CLOSE TO THE ROAD WHERE IT MAY IMPACT THE PUBLIC.
THERE'S THERE, THERE'S A BASIC DIFFERENCE THERE.
I, I THOUGHT WHEN THE, THE ROOF CAVE THOUGHT DEC CAVE IN THAT IT WAS A DANGER AND IT HAD TO BE, THAT'S ELIMINATED.
I MEAN, THEY WOULD LET IT SIT FOR YEARS, BUT ONCE THE ROOF START TO CAVE IN MM-HMM
SO WHAT, WHAT HAPPENED TO THAT? THAT IS SOMETHING THAT I'LL HAVE TO GET UP WITH OUR CODE ADMINISTRATION FOLKS TO SEE HOW THEY ACTUALLY, UH, HOW THEY ACTUALLY INTERPRET THOSE DIFFERENT SITUATIONS.
WHAT IS THE THRESHOLD BETWEEN DERELICT AND DANGEROUS IS YOUR QUESTION.
AND WE'LL FIND AN ANSWER FOR YOU.
SO THAT DERELICT AND TO ME, I SEE SOME EVERY WEEK THAT TO ME APPEAR TO BE DANGEROUS.
ESPECIALLY IF SOME CHILD OR CHILDREN JUST HAD THINK THEY'RE HAVING FUN.
[01:05:01]
RIGHT.WE ALREADY SEE AS ADULTS THAT IT'S MEANING AS DANGEROUS, BUT THEY JUST HAVING FUN.
SO I KNOW DURING THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS MEETING, DURING A BRIEFING FOR THE, UM, GRANT AWARD THAT THEY HAD DONE, ONE OF THE SUPERVISORS DID MENTION THE FACT OR STATED THAT THE COUNTY SHOULD BE REMOVING THE DEER LAKE STRUCTURES.
AND I CAN'T REMEMBER WHICH SUPERVISOR THAT WAS, HOWEVER, THAT IT SHOULD BE RECORDED.
SO I DON'T KNOW IF WE ADDRESS IT FROM THAT PERSPECTIVE OR, YOU KNOW, HOW DO WE MOVE FORWARD WITH POSS THE POSSIBILITY.
I THINK THINK IF YOU COULD GIVE US SOME MORE INFORMATION FOR, FOR STAFF TO GO ON.
THEN WE CAN, UH, THEN WE CAN, UH, UH, DISCUSS THAT AS A SENIOR LEADERSHIP TEAM AND THEN, AND THEN APPROACH THAT.
BUT IN TERMS OF AMENDING IN, IN TERMS OF BENDING THE ORDINANCE, AND YOU ALSO HAVE TO BE CLEAR ABOUT WHAT PART OF THE ORDINANCE YOU WANT TO AMEND.
'CAUSE THAT DOES NOT SOUND LIKE A ZONING ISSUE.
SO I DON'T, I WOULD NOT RECOMMEND PUTTING SOMETHING ABOUT DANGEROUS OR DERELICT STRUCTURES IN THE ZONING ORDINANCE.
UM, UH, THAT WOULD HAVE TO BE REVIEWED A LITTLE BIT MORE.
BUT, UM, SINCE THIS IS YOUR ITEM, WE WOULD APPRECIATE YOUR GUIDANCE ON THIS.
AND THEN WE WOULD LIKE TO KNOW AND MAKE SURE THAT YOU WORK THROUGH STAFF.
UM, I KNOW IN THE NEIGHBORING COUNTY, NORTH HAMPTON COUNTY, THEY DO HAVE SUCH ORDINANCES AND SO WHAT I WOULD RECOMMEND IS POSSIBLY SEEING WHAT THEY ARE DOING AND HOW THEY ARE, HOW THEY HAVE IMPLEMENTED.
UM, IT SAYS IT'S IN THEIR SECTION 94.03 OF THE AKMA OF THE NORTHAMPTON COUNTY CODE, I GUESS IS, IS WHERE THEY ADDRESS THIS.
AND WITH THAT, IT ACTUALLY SAYS, AND IT'S PROBABLY MORE THE DANGER STRUCTURES THAN DEAR LAKE, THAT UM, IT IS A, ANYTHING THAT'S A STRUCTURE THAT'S CONSIDERED ENDANGERING THE PUBLIC SAFETY OR HEALTH BASICALLY IS CONSIDERED TO BE REMOVED.
AND THEY GIVE THEM 30 DAYS IS POSTED IN THE POST AND THEY HAVE 30 DAYS TO ADDRESS IT.
EITHER REMOVE, REPAIR, OR SECURE IT, OR IT IS REMOVED BY THE COUNTY AND IT IS ADDED AS A CHARGEABLE BILL TO THEIR TAXES.
SO AGAIN, JUST RECOMMEND THAT WE POSSIBLY LOOK AT WHAT OUR NEIGHBORING COUNTY IS DOING AND SEE HOW WE COULD POSSIBLY CONSIDER SUCH FOR ACK COUNTY AS WELL.
WE'LL BRING YOU SOME INFORMATION NEXT TOMORROW.
SO HAVING DEALT WITH THESE OVER THE YEARS MM-HMM
UH, WE USED TO JUST CALL THE FIRE DEPARTMENT, GIVE THEM FEW HUNDRED DOLLARS YEAH.
BURN AND THEY CAN BURN IT DOWN.
AND YOU HAVE TO HAVE PEOPLE, AND SOMETIMES THESE STRUCTURES, THE OWNERSHIP IS IN QUESTION.
AND THE OWNER HAS TO SIGN OFF ON.
AND IF YOU CAN'T FIND THE OWNER AND YOU DON'T KNOW THERE'S THE PROBLEM.
AND, AND, BUT SEVERAL TIMES I'VE JUST CALLED UP THE FIRE DEPARTMENT, WRITE 'EM A $500 CHECK, AND THEY COME OUT THERE AND BURN IT DOWN.
SO NOW WITH THE REGULATORY COMPLIANCE ISSUES, WE, WE WE'RE, WE CAN'T DO THAT.
AND THE OTHER ISSUE THAT YOU HAVE IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU MENTIONED.
YOU'LL FIND THAT A LOT OF THESE STRUCTURES ARE AIRED PROPERTIES AND YOU CAN LOCATE IN ALL CANNOT FIND, AND THEY'RE NOT LOCAL.
A LOT OF 'EM ARE NOT LOCAL, AND IT'S ALMOST NEAR IMPOSSIBLE TO GET IN TOUCH WITH THEM.
SO AGAIN, IF THE COUNTY HAS THAT, IF IT'S POSTED AND THEY DON'T RESPOND, THEN COUNTY RESPONSIBILITY TO RENEW.
I MEAN, I'VE OFFERED TO GO IN THERE WITH MY EQUIPMENT AND EVERYTHING AND TEAR IT DOWN.
NOT EVEN VERMIN AND I CAN'T DO IT.
HOW ABOUT, UH, VERLY RATS, YOU KNOW, LIC STRUCTURES? IS THAT A PUBLIC HEALTH THING? I'D SAY THAT'S MORE OF AN ANIMAL CONTROL ISSUE.
ANIMAL CONTROL STRUCTURE ISSUE, RATS AND WHATEVER ELSE IS LIVING IN THERE.
THERE ARE ALL KINDS OF SITUATIONS THAT WOULD ATTRACT BERMIN.
YOU KNOW, IF THEY'RE, SO THAT'S, THAT'S AN OPEN-ENDED QUESTION IN MY OPINION.
CHICKEN HOUSES ARE CLASSIC EXAMPLE.
HOW MANY ABANDONED CHICKEN HOUSES DO YOU SEE AROUND THE COUNTY? MM-HMM
I THINK THE PURPOSE BEHIND THIS, UH, IS TO ADDRESS RESIDENCES SPECIFICALLY.
WELL, COMMENT COULD BE THEY'RE DERELICT 'CAUSE THE PEOPLE CAN'T MAINTAIN THEM.
AND THEN THE COUNTY REMOVES THEM FOR TWICE WHAT SOMEBODY ELSE WOULD'VE PAID TO GET IT DONE.
SO NOW YOU'RE IN A $40,000 CLEANUP BILL AND THE PEOPLE ARE TAXED ON THAT.
[01:10:01]
KNOW.YOU KINDA GIVE 'EM 30 DAYS AND, AND THE COUNTY, UM, CLEANS IT UP FOR $30,000 AND THEN THE PERSON OWES THE COUNTY $30,000 THE WAY THEY COULDN'T AFFORD TO MAINTAIN THE BUILDING TO START WITH.
SO NOW YOU'RE PUTTING THE EXTRA BURDEN ON 'EM.
I BOUGHT A DERELICT BUILDING, PAID $65 FOR THE COUNTY PERMIT AND, UH, THEY WANTED $16,000 TO TEAR IT DOWN.
AND THE FIRE COMPANY WAS DOING SOME, UH, TRAINING AND I PAID THEM A COUPLE THOUSAND DOLLARS TO DO IT, BUT I STILL HAD TO PAY TO CLEAN UP THE REST OF THE MESS.
BUT IT'S NOT CHEAP, BUT ALL RIGHT.
IT'S BETTER TO MAINTAIN THE PROPERTIES ALONG THE WAY AS OPPOSED TO LETTING IT GET TO A POINT WHERE YOU HAVE TO DUMP THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS TO FIX IT.
BUT, UH, WE'LL, WE'LL BRING MORE INFORMATION NEXT MONTH.
ANY OTHER DISCUSSION ON DERELICT BUILDINGS? ALL RIGHT.
WE MOVE ON TO, UH, STAFF REPORTS OF THE VISION AGENT.
WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING SIGNIFICANT TO REPORT FROM A, UH, FROM A STAFF STANDPOINT, YOU'VE GOT THE, UM, YOU'VE GOT THE, UH, FACTS AND FIGURES FOR, FOR THE BZA.
UH, WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING FROM A SUBDIVISION STANDPOINT EITHER FROM A DEPUTY COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR STANDPOINT.
UH, RECRUITMENT IS STILL OPEN FOR TWO POSITIONS.
UM, WE DO HAVE A CODE ENFORCEMENT OFFICER BUILDING, UH, OR A BUILDING INSPECTOR IN OTHER TERMS. UH, UH, WE'VE GOT ONE PERSON THAT'S BEEN OFFERED THAT, BUT TECHNICALLY THE RECRUITMENT IS STILL OPEN.
AND THEN THE ENVIRONMENTAL PLANNER, UM, UH, WE'RE HAVING TO GO BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD TO RECRUIT AGAIN FOR ENVIRONMENTAL PLANNER, WHERE WE HAD SEVERAL APPLICANTS AND WE HAD, UH, UM, UM, NARROWED THOSE DOWN TO TWO AND WE DIDN'T HAVE ANY TAKERS ON THAT.
UH, THE STAFF IS WORKING WITH PUBLIC WORKS AND DEALS ARCHITECTS OUTTA HAMPTON ROADS ON THE DESIGN FOR THE NEW DEPARTMENT BUILDING AT THE OLD MACK LIBRARY.
JUST TODAY I GOT THE 95% PLANS.
SO THAT DESIGN IS MOVING ALONG VERY NICELY.
UM, WE ANTICIPATE THE 100% PLANS TO BE DONE BY THE END OF THE YEAR, AND, UM, AND I WOULD, UH, I WOULD CAUTIOUSLY STATE ANOTHER SIX TO NINE MONTHS AFTER THAT TO FINISH OUT THE PROJECT.
SO BY THE END OF 2026, THE COMMUNITY AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT DEPARTMENT, WHICH PART OF IT IS RIGHT ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THIS WALL HERE.
AND THEN THE OTHER PART IS IN THE HOUSE NEXT DOOR, WE'LL ALL BE UNDER ONE ROOF AT THE OLD AAC LIBRARY.
SO WE'RE LOOKING VERY, WE'RE LOOKING FORWARD TO THAT AS A STAFF, BUT THAT'S ALSO GOING TO IMPROVE THE, UH, THE CUSTOMER, UH, THE CUSTOMER EXPERIENCE.
AND, UH, IT GETS US ALL UNDER ONE ROOF, WHICH IS REALLY IMPORTANT.
LET'S SEE, UH, SIX RESPONSES TO THE COMP PLAN RFP HAVE BEEN RECEIVED.
WE'RE GONNA BE SCORING THOSE NEXT WEEK, AND YOU'LL START TO SEE A LOT MORE ACTION ON THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AND GETTING THAT, UH, GETTING THAT FIVE YEAR REVIEW THAT'S MANDATED BY STATE CODE DONE.
AND FINALLY, UM, WE, WE PARTNERED WITH ONE DEVELOPER.
UH, THE COMPANY IS I UNIT, AND THE OWNER OF I UNIT IS BRYCE CONTI.
HE, HE APPLIED FOR A, UM, WELL, HE WROTE THE APPLICATION FOR A VIRGINIA HOUSING INNOVATION GRANT PROJECT.
AND THIS WAS FOR TWO DWELLINGS IN PARKLEY.
SO AT THE, UH, ACROSS THE STREET FROM THE, UH, FROM THE CEMETERY IN PARSLEY OR JUST OUTSIDE OF PARKLEY, UH, IS WHERE THESE ARE.
AND THAT WAS A $497,000 GRANT.
HE HAS SET THE UNITS, SO IF YOU'RE, IF YOU'RE IN THAT AREA, CERTAINLY DRIVE BY THE, UM, UH, THE UNITS WILL BE COMPLETED NEXT MONTH IN DECEMBER WHEN HE WILL ALSO HAVE A RIBBON CUTTING.
BUT WE'RE ESPECIALLY PROUD OF THAT BECAUSE IT STARTS TO ADDRESS, UH, IN A, IN A, UH, BOTH PHYSICALLY WITH TWO UNITS, BUT ALSO FROM A POLICY STANDPOINT HOW WE'RE DEMONSTRATING HOW, UH, STATE FUNDING CAN BE USED TO, UH, UH, TO ADDRESS, UH, THE LACK OF HOUSING HERE ON THE EASTERN SHORE.
HE'S INTERESTED IN DOING MORE OF THESE UNITS ON THE EASTERN SHORE.
BUT THE PURPOSE OF THIS WAS TO DEMONSTRATE THAT HIS SPECIFIC UNIT, WHICH IS ESSENTIALLY A, UM, UH, AN ENERGY SAVER UNIT, IT ALSO HAS, UM, UH, UH, SOLAR SHINGLES ON THE ROOF, NOT PANELS, BUT SHINGLES.
UH, AND, AND HE'S LOOKING FORWARD TO DEMONSTRATING THE EFFECTIVENESS OF THAT.
HE'S ALSO USING SOME, UH, ENERGY SAVING, UM, ENERGY SAVING APPLIANCES INSIDE.
BUT, UH, THESE ARE INTENDED TO REDUCE THE COST OF, OF THE UTILITIES.
[01:15:01]
SOME, UH, SOME TECHNIQUES AT THE FACTORY TO TRY TO REDUCE THE COSTS THERE.SO, UH, THAT GRANT, UH, WE EXPECT THEM TO BE DONE NEXT MONTH.
AND, UH, UM, AGAIN, WE'RE, WE'RE PARTICULARLY PROUD OF, UH, OF THAT APPLICATION AND, AND GETTING THAT GRANT.
SO THAT CONCLUDES THE REPORT, AND I CAN FILL ANY QUESTIONS.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR STAFF? OUR NEXT MEETING IS DECEMBER 12TH.
UM, WE HAVE NO OTHER DISCUSSION.
WE CAN HAVE A MOTION TO ADJOURN 12TH OR 10TH.