* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.
          [00:00:01]
          UH, TODAY WE'RE HAVING AAC COUNTY WETLANDS BOARD MEETING. 
          [Wetlands Board on November 20, 2025.]
WE HAVE ONE APPLICATION, UH, TO RULE ON AND PUBLIC COMMENT WITH US TODAY. 
          T LEAD BIRD IS ABSENT. 
          HE HAS SOME BUSINESS HE HAD TO TAKE CARE OF. 
          I'M GEORGE WARD, THE VICE CHAIRMAN, GENE WAYNE TAYLOR, GEORGE BADGER, TIMOTHY ICK. 
          AND MR. ASH, THAT'S FILLING IN FOR, UH, LEAD T LEAGUE. 
          UH, LET'S SEE. 
          MEMBER, UM, WHO IS REPRESENTING THE STATE. 
          MY NAME'S KIRSTEN. 
          GLAD TO HAVE YOU WITH US. 
          THANK YOU. 
          OKAY. 
          FOR THE ONLY APPLICATION WE HAVE THIS MORNING IS 20 25, 21 59. 
          UH, CAMP SILVER BEACH. 
          YES, SIR. 
          NO, I'M HON. 
          EXCUSE ME. 
          . 
          UH, DO YOU, DO WE WANT TO GO THROUGH THE FORMAT OF GOING THROUGH THE AGENDA AND MINUTES, MR. CHAIR? DO YOU WANT TO DO THAT FIRST OR DO YOU WANT TO GO RIGHT INTO THE, LET'S GO TO THE, UH, A, THE AGENDA. 
          THE AGENDA. 
          OKAY. 
          JUST IN MOTION FOR THE OPPORT OF THE AGENDA. 
          I'LL SECOND THAT. 
          ALL OTHERS FAVOR? AYE. 
          AYE. 
          NO, I POSITION. 
          UM, AND, UM, AND WOULD THE BOARD WANT TO APPROVE THE MINUTES OR HAVE ANY COMMENTS ON THE MINUTE OR THE MINUTES? UH, JUST, UH, I DID SEND IN ONE MODIFICATION ON THE MINUTES AND I PROBABLY MS. HARMON CAUGHT THAT. 
          YES. 
          OKAY. 
          SO WITH THAT, I MAKE THE MOTION TO ACCEPT THE MINUTES, UH, FROM, UH, PREVIOUS MEETING. 
          I'LL SECOND. 
          OKAY. 
          ALL THOSE IN FAVOR? AYE. 
          AYES HAVE IT. 
          OKAY. 
          WE'VE GOT ONE OLD BUSINESS TO DO AND WE CAN TAKE THIS IN ANY ORDER YOU'D LIKE. 
          UM, SO JUST WHATEVER YOUR PLEASURE IS TO THE OLD BUSINESS OR NEW BUSINESS TO WHERE WE WOULD START. 
          UH, LET'S GO TO THE OLD BUSINESS. 
          OKAY. 
          UM, SO WE HAVE, AND I JUST MADE A LIST 'CAUSE WE HAVE A NUMBER OF THINGS THAT HAVE COME UP IN THE MEANTIME SINCE THE AGENDA WAS MAILED OUT. 
          UM, THE OLD BUSINESS, WE HAVE THE TWO UNPAID IN LIE FEES AND THE RESTORATION. 
          UH, THE FIRST, THE BURKE UNPAID AND LIE FEE, WHICH THE BOARD HAS ADDRESSED IN THE PAST. 
          AND IN THE PAST. 
          I REPORTED TO THE BOARD THAT I WAS UNABLE TO GET IN TOUCH WITH THE BURKES, EITHER THROUGH REGULAR MAILING OR CERTIFIED MAILING AT THEIR PENNSYLVANIA ADDRESS. 
          UH, ON MONDAY I GOT A CALL FROM THEM BECAUSE THEY NOW PERMANENTLY LIVE IN CAPTAIN'S COVE AND HAVE NOT BEEN TO THEIR PENNSYLVANIA ADDRESS IN SIX OR SEVEN MONTHS. 
          AND THEY FOUND OUT ABOUT THIS ISSUE BECAUSE OF THE VIOLATION IN CAPTAIN'S COVE. 
          AND I THINK PEOPLE IN CAPTAIN'S COVE HAD BEEN LOOKING AT THE ONLINE AGENDA AND THEY SAW THE BURKES ON THE ONLINE AGENDA, AND ONE OF THEIR NEIGHBORS CALLED THEM AND TOLD THEM THEY WERE ON THE AGENDA. 
          SO THEY CONTACTED ME AND THEY REACTED LIKE ANYBODY WOULD, WHO WAS TOLD THEY OWED $1,620 FROM A WETLANDS PROJECT DATING FOUR PLUS YEARS AGO. 
          THEY DID NOT KNOW THAT IT HAD BEEN UNPAID. 
          UM, THEY HAD A, OR MR. BRITTON PUT IN, UH, THE BULKHEAD AND THEY INFORMED ME THAT THEY WERE NOT TOLD BY MR. BRITTON THAT THEY OWED THE MONEY, BUT THEIR CONTRACT, WHICH I'VE PROVIDED TO YOU AND THEY PROVIDED TO ME, DOES STATE THAT THEY WOULD OWE THAT AMOUNT. 
          UM, AND THEY SUBMITTED, THEY WERE UNABLE TO ATTEND TODAY. 
          SO THEY SENT ME A LETTER WITH SOME ATTACHMENTS, WHICH I'VE PROVIDED TO THE BOARD AND JUST WANTED TO, AND I OBVIOUSLY TOLD THEM THAT I WOULD PRESENT TO THE BOARD WHATEVER THEY SENT ME. 
          UM, THEY HAVE SOME, I GUESS, ARGUMENTS AS TO WHY THEY DON'T OWE THEM MONEY. 
          I EXPLAINED TO THEM THE, UH, MECHANICS OF HOW THESE IN LIEU FEES WORK AND HOW THE STATE MANDATES THAT THEY ARE PAID. 
          UM, AND OTHER THAN THAT, UH, I JUST HAVE THE SUBMISSION THAT THEY SENT TO ME THAT I PROVIDED TO YOU THIS MORNING, BUT NO CHECK, NO CHECK. 
          THEY SENT THE LETTER IN HOPES THAT THE BOARD WOULD RECONSIDER, UM, THE AMOUNT THEY HAD TO PAY. 
          UM, OBVIOUSLY I EXPLAINED WHAT THE LAW IS, BUT, 
          [00:05:01]
AND, AND THEY WERE VERY POLITE ABOUT IT ALL. 
          UM, BUT WANTED TO SUBMIT THIS TO SEE IF ANYTHING COULD BE DONE. 
          OKAY. 
          AND IT'S, AND IT'S EASY. 
          THEY DON'T FALL INTO THE PARAMETERS OF THE EXEMPTIONS OF THE PAN. 
          YOU KNOW WHAT I'M SAYING? THEY DON'T, THEY DON'T FALL INTO THE PARAMETERS OF THE EXEMPTIONS THAT WE HAVE. 
          AND LIKE I SAID, I DON'T WANNA BRING IT UP LATER ON THE DAY FOR OVER HERE. 
          THEY DON'T, THEY'RE NOT COMMERCIAL, THEY'RE NOT THIS, THEY'RE NOT, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? THEY DON'T, THEY DON'T FORM THOSE PARAMETERS. 
          WE HAVE EXEMPTIONS, BUT ANYTHING THAT WE EXEMPT JUST EXEMPTED BM CS PLAN, UM, PUTTING VOTES. 
          WELL, I THINK, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY THE RULES HAVE CHANGED OVER THE YEARS, BUT I THINK IF THIS PROJECT WAS PRESENTED TO THE BOARD TODAY UNDER THE BOARD'S POLICIES, NOW THEY WOULD OWE THIS MONEY. 
          SO I DON'T THINK THAT IT WOULD CHANGE IT AT ALL ACCORDING TO THE POLICIES. 
          NOW, AS OPPOSED TO THE POLICIES FOUR YEARS AGO, KENNY HASN'T BLACK AND WHITE. 
          VIC HASN'T BLACK AND WHITE THAT HE OWED THE MONEY. 
          IT DIDN'T GET PAID AS AS THAT. 
          SO THE, THE ISSUE REALLY CAME DOWN TO WE ISSUED THEM, THE COUNTY ISSUED THEM A BUILDING PERMIT FOR THE BULKHEAD WITHOUT HAVING, WITHOUT THE MONEY. 
          SO SOME OF THAT'S COUNTY FAULT. 
          IT, IT IS. 
          I WOULD MORE SPECIFICALLY, WE ISSUED A WETLANDS PERMIT WITHOUT, I MEAN, BECAUSE THAT'S RIGHT NOW WE DO NOT RELEASE. 
          THAT'S TRUE. 
          RELEASE THE WETLANDS PERMIT UNTIL WE GET THE MONEY. 
          AT THE TIME, IT, WE ALSO HAD THAT POLICY. 
          UM, AND I EXPLAINED TO HIM THAT WHILE OBVIOUSLY IT WOULD'VE BEEN BETTER FOR EVERYONE, FOR US TO HAVE INSISTED UPON THAT PAYMENT AT THE TIME, YOU KNOW, THAT DOESN'T MEAN YOU DON'T OWE IT, IT JUST MEANS WE COULD HAVE DONE A BETTER JOB AND MAKING SURE WE COLLECTED IT. 
          YOU THINK YOU'RE A HUNDRED PERCENT RIGHT. 
          IT IS OUR FAULT THAT WE LET IT GET TO THAT POINT. 
          BUT THAT'S NOT PART OF THE EXEMPTIONS THAT YOU'RE GOING TO BRING UP LATER ON THAT THE COUNTY GAVE THE PERMIT WITHOUT FORCING THE, THE PAYMENT FIRST. 
          MM-HMM . 
          IT'S A MISTAKE, BUT IT'S NOT A MISTAKE THAT SOMEBODY'S GONNA ACCEPT FOR NOT BE ABLE TO DO THE FEE. 
          UM, SO I GUESS, I GUESS THE QUESTION IS, IS WHERE DO WE GO FROM HERE? DO WE JUST WANT TO LET YOU ADDRESS THAT ISSUE WITH THEM FOR A LITTLE BIT? I, WELL, WHAT I TOLD THEM IS I WOULD PRESENT TO THEM WHATEVER THEY SENT ME, AND THEN I WOULD REPORT BACK TO THEM WHETHER THE FEE WAS WAIVED OR WHETHER IT WAS STILL OWED. 
          OKAY. 
          AND, AND, AND SO I WILL CONTACT THEM IF, IF IT'S THE BOARD'S DESIRE NOT TO WAIVE THE FEE, WHICH I'M NOT SUGGESTING IT SHOULD, BUT, BUT MY PLAN WOULD BE TO CONTACT THEM, UH, BY PHONE CALL AND BY LETTER AT THEIR NEW ADDRESS SAYING THAT IT IS STILL OWE, AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS FROM THERE AND REPORT BACK. 
          I'M, UH, READING THE LETTER HERE AND IT'S VERY NICE THAT THEY DID THIS. 
          UH, IT GETS, UH, GETS, HAS A COUPLE QUESTIONS HERE. 
          BACK IN 2021, I DON'T BELIEVE WE CHARGED FOR UNVEGETATED WETLANDS. 
          THAT WAS MORE OF A RECENT EVENT. 
          WELL, AND, AND, AND I, AND I I'M GOING TO CONFIRM THAT WHAT THEY HAD WAS VEGETATED WETLANDS THAT WAS IMPACTED, BUT I DON'T REMEMBER THIS. 
          YEAH, IT'S A VERY CONFUSING SCENARIO BECAUSE WHAT TRANSPIRED IS, UH, MR. BRITTON CAME BEFORE THE WETLANDS BOARD ON ONE OCCASION, GOT A PERMIT, UH, NO IN LIE FEE, NO MITIGATION WAS ORDERED. 
          UH, BUT THEN NO CONSTRUCTION WAS DONE FOR A PERIOD OF TIME SUCH THAT THEY HAD TO COME BACK A SECOND TIME FOR A SECOND PERMIT. 
          AND AT THAT POINT, UH, MITIGATION WAS ORDERED AND THE POLICY DID CHANGE BETWEEN THEIR FIRST VISIT AND THEIR I I, I DID DOUBLE CHECK THAT AND, AND FOUND WHERE THE POLICY DID CHANGE BETWEEN THE FIRST VISIT AND THE SECOND VISIT. 
          UH, BUT THERE IS NO QUESTION THAT WHEN THE SECOND PERMIT WAS ISSUED, WHICH WAS REQUIRED BECAUSE THE FIRST ONE HAD EXPIRED, AND NOBODY ASKED FOR AN EXTENSION, THAT AT THAT POINT THE WETLANDS BOARD ORDERED THE $1,620 IN LIE FEE PAID. 
          AND, AND AGAIN, MAYBE I'M MAKING TOO MUCH. 
          IT IS THAT BASED ON $12 PER SQUARE FOOT, THE $18 PER, THAT WAS AT THE TIME THE BOARD STARTED ASSESSING FOR, UH, NON VEGITATIVE WETLANDS WAS THE SAME TIME THAT THE BOARD WENT FROM $12 TO $18. 
          AND WE DID SEND OUT A LETTER FOR THE SECOND APPLICATION BEFORE THE BOARD HEARING STATING THAT IT WAS $12 A SQUARE FOOT. 
          THAT LETTER WAS INCORRECT. 
          AT THAT POINT, IT HAD ALREADY BEEN CHANGED TO $18 A SQUARE FOOT. 
          MM-HMM . 
          SO THIS IS AN INTERESTING SITUATION, I HAVE TO SAY. 
          I MEAN, IT WASN'T A NEW PERMIT, IT WAS AN EXTENSION OF A PERMIT. 
          NO, WELL, NO, IT NEW PERMIT. 
          IT, IT WAS A NEW PERMIT. 
          IT, IT WAS A NEW JPA NEW JPA NUMBER NEW PERMIT. 
          NOBODY ASKED FOR AN EXTENSION OF THE ORIGINAL. 
          OKAY. 
          SO IN THAT CASE IT WAS AT $18 AT THAT TIME WHEN THE NEW JPA WAS STARTED THEN? YES. 
          GOTCHA. 
          OKAY. 
          VERY GOOD. 
          IS THE, WHAT WE'RE AFTER IS THE SAME AMOUNT THAT WE APPROVED IT. 
          CORRECT. 
          THAT THEY APPROVED THAT, THAT AMOUNT THAT WAS SIT AT THE MEETING. 
          THAT'S THE AMOUNT WE'RE AFTER. 
          YEAH. 
          THAT I'M SAYING THAT THEY DON'T, THEY DON'T HAVE A CASE. 
          I MEAN, LIKE I SAID, WELL, I MEAN, WRITTEN DOWN AND, AND YEAH. 
          EVEN THOUGH WE LIKE, LIKE, LIKE HANK'S SAYING, IT'S OUR BOO BOOO THAT WE ALLOWED IT TO START WITHOUT THE MONEY FIRST 
          [00:10:01]
BECAUSE THIS, THAT'S WHY YOU'RE DILIGENT ABOUT GETTING YOUR MONEY FIRST. 
          BECAUSE AFTER IT'S OVER UP, WE DON'T GOT, WE DON'T OWE IT. 
          YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? BUT THAT'S NOT THE CASE. 
          I MEAN, WE DON'T REALLY AUDIENCE WHERE YOU HAVE THE POWER TO SAY FORGET IT BECAUSE IT'S NOT ON THE EXEMPTION SHEET. 
          I MEAN, LIKE I SAID, IT'S A NO NET LOSS. 
          AND, AND LIKE I SAID, IT'S NOT ON THE EXEMPTION SHEET OF US HAVING A OO YEAH. 
          SO I GUESS MY NEXT QUESTION, WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE FROM US? WOULD YOU LIKE US TO JUST GIVE A VERBAL PROCEED AS YOU PLANNED? OR DO WE WANT TO VOTE ON IT? I'M NOT SURE WHAT I WOULD JUST SAY MAYBE JUST PROCEED AS, OR HAVE THE CHAIR TELL YOU TO PROCEED. 
          I THINK THAT'S SUFFICIENT. 
          I MEAN, THEY, THEY OWE THE MONEY. 
          I, I DON'T NECESSARILY THINK WE NEED TO VOTE ON IT. 
          OKAY. 
          WOULD IT, WOULD IT BE TO OUR ADVANTAGE TO, UH, DISCUSS THIS WITH THE COUNTY ATTORNEY? UM, OR DO YOU THINK HE WOULD JUST GO ALONG WITH WHAT WE'VE ALREADY DECIDED? IT WOULD NOT, I, I, I WOULD CERTAINLY BE ABLE TO DO THAT WITHOUT MUCH PROBLEM AT ALL. 
          OKAY. 
          YEAH. 
          DO YOU THINK IS NECESSARY? UM, I THINK IT WOULD ALL, I WOULD THINK IT WOULD BE HELPFUL IN, IN SATISFYING, UH, THE BURKES THAT MM-HMM . 
          THAT'S WHAT I WAS THINKING, THAT WE'VE, UH, KIND OF GONE DOWN ALL AVENUES TO DETERMINE WHAT CAN BE DONE HERE. 
          AND THAT IT, MY IMPRESSION IS THAT EVERY, YOU KNOW, OUR HANDS ARE PRETTY MUCH TIED BY STATE LAW AS TO WHAT THE BOARD CAN AND CANNOT DO, AND THE COUNTY CAN AND CANNOT DO. 
          MEANING IT'S, THEY HAVE TO PAY THE YES FEES THAT THEY DON'T PAY IT. 
          YOU GET THE JUDGMENT. 
          IT'S PROPERTY. 
          THEY ALSO HAVE A HEARING AT THAT DAY. 
          THEY CAN PRESENT THEIR CASE TO THE JUDGE, DOWN TO THEM. 
          YEAH. 
          SO THAT'S, THAT'S THE, I THINK IT'S A GOOD IDEA. 
          JUST MAKE THE COUNTY ATTORNEY AWARE OF THIS. 
          YES. 
          JUST IN CASE IT BOOMERANGS BACK OR SOMETHING COMES, SOMETHING ELSE COMES OFF OF IT. 
          THAT'D BE GOOD. 
          OKAY. 
          I MAKE A MOTION THAT WE ASK THE COUNTY ATTORNEY FOR A GUIDANCE SECOND. 
          OKAY. 
          I SECOND THAT MOTION. 
          AND HOW WOULD YOU, THIS WE, WE'LL CALL THIS, UH, COMPLAINT RAYMOND AND JULIE BURKE AS WE WERE GONNA MAKE THIS MOTION. 
          AND PAUL, IS THAT, IS THAT ENOUGH FOR YOU? OR DO YOU NEED SOMETHING ELSE FROM US? THAT'S ENOUGH. 
          SHOULD WE STATE THAT WE BELIEVE THEY OWE THE MONEY THOUGH PENDING APPROVAL BY THE COUNTY ATTORNEY? YES, I AGREE WITH THAT TOO. 
          YOU GOT THAT ONE? YES. 
          OKAY. 
          VERY GOOD. 
          I'LL SECOND THAT MOTION. 
          YES. 
          ALRIGHT. 
          WE HAVE A MOTION BEFORE THE BOARD. 
          ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SAY AYE. 
          AYE. 
          AYE. 
          OPPOSED? NO, I HAVE IT. 
          UM, THE SECOND MATTER IS THE BUCKLIN UNPAID IN LIE FEE. 
          AND I'VE HAD SEVERAL CONVERSATIONS WITH MR. BUCKLIN, UM, AND HE INFORMED ME THAT HE IS, WELL, HE DOES NOT LIVE LOCAL. 
          HE ALSO LIVES IN PENNSYLVANIA AND HE IS UNABLE TO PAY THE AMOUNT. 
          AND, UH, I AM SPEAKING WITH THE COUNTY ATTORNEY AS TO THE NEXT ACTIONS WE'RE GONNA BE TAKING. 
          UM, VERY POLITE. 
          HE, HE HAS SOME PERSONAL MO I THINK HIS WIFE IS ILL. 
          HE JUST SAID HE, HE'S NOT PLANNING TO COME BACK DOWN HERE ANYTIME SOON AND HE'S JUST NOT IN THE POSITION TO MAKE THE PAYMENTS, SO. 
          OKAY. 
          HOW MUCH IS THAT? 900. 
          $960 I BELIEVE. 
          OKAY. 
          AND, UH, THEN FINALLY WE HAVE MR. PULASKI, UM, RESTORATION, WHICH WAS ORDERED IN JULY. 
          HE WAS SUPPOSED TO PRESENT A PLAN. 
          HE WAS ORDERED TO PRESENT A PLAN WITHIN 60 DAYS. 
          HE DID NOT DO THAT WITHIN 60 DAYS, BUT WE DID NOT HAVE, WELL, AT THE AL AT THE AUGUST MEETING. 
          IT WASN'T DUE YET, OF COURSE. 
          AND THEN WE DIDN'T HAVE MEETINGS IN SEPTEMBER OR OCTOBER. 
          UM, WE HAVE HAD EMAIL CORRESPONDENCE ABOUT THIS, UH, EXCHANGE SEVERAL EMAILS. 
          I KIND OF SENT HIM A DEMAND EMAIL A FEW WEEKS AGO SAYING THAT HE GOTTEN THE BENEFIT OF NO MEETINGS FOR A COUPLE MONTHS, UH, AND THAT A MEETING WAS COMING UP AND THAT HE NEEDED TO GET ME THAT RESTORATION PLAN. 
          HE GOT IT TO ME ON MONDAY. 
          AND I'VE PROVIDED YOU A COPY OF THAT ALONG WITH SOME OTHER CORRESPONDENCE. 
          UM, I DID MAKE A SITE VISIT ABOUT A WEEK AND A HALF AGO, AND THE TIDE WAS A LITTLE HIGH. 
          IT WAS PROBABLY ABOUT A FOOT OF WATER. 
          YEAH. 
          WHERE THE ROCKS HAD BEEN PLACED. 
          I COULD NOT GET A PICTURE BECAUSE OF THE FOOT OF WATER WHERE YOU COULD REALLY SEE ANYTHING, BUT YOU COULD CLEARLY SEE, UM, DOWN THROUGH THE WATER IN A, UH, LAYER OF, WHILE THE ROCKS HAVEN'T BEEN REMOVED, A LAYER OF GRAVEL IN THE AFFECTED AREA THAT APPEARS TO BE IMPEDING ANY TYPE OF WETLANDS GROWTH OR POSSIBILITY 
          [00:15:01]
OF WETLANDS GROWTH MAY PUT PLANT PEYTON'S BACK OR SOMETHING THAT ELSE ABOVE THAT, THAT MARSH, UM, ENVIRONMENT. 
          UM, WELL, HIS ORIGINAL PROJECT WAS REVETMENTS APPROXIMATELY 10 15 FEET OFF THE SHORE. 
          BUT IT IS A HARSH ENVIRONMENT. 
          UM, AND, UH, AND, AND THIS WAS HIS ORIGINAL PLAN WAS TO DO, WAS TO SAVE THE MARSH THERE. 
          UM, SO FOR THAT REASON, I WAS VERY HOPEFUL THAT HE WOULD BE ABLE TO DO THIS A LITTLE MORE QUICKLY THAN HE'S DONE, OBVIOUSLY. 
          UM, HAS HE DONE ANYTHING? THEY DID REMOVE THE LARGE, AND THESE WERE, YOU KNOW, FOOT TO FOOT AND A HALF DIAMETER PIECES OF RIP WRAP THAT WERE PILED, UH, A FEW FEET HIGH ON TOP OF THE MARSH. 
          ALL OF THAT HAS BEEN REMOVED. 
          ALL THAT'S LEFT IS A PRETTY CONSISTENT LAYER OF GRAVEL. 
          IT'S NOT THICK. 
          IT'S NOT MORE THAN ONE OR TWO PIECES FROM BOTTOM TO TOP, BUT A PRETTY CONSISTENT LAYER OF GRAVEL WHERE THE, WHERE THAT RIP WRAP HAD BEEN DUMPED. 
          AND IS THE, EXCUSE ME, IS THE PLANTINGS GONNA BE WHERE THE GRAVEL IS OR IS THAT GONNA CORRECT? YES. 
          SO IT WOULD BE BENEFICIAL TO GET AS MUCH, I REALIZE, NOT GET EVERY LAST PIECE OF GRAVEL, BUT GET AS MUCH OF IT UP AS POSSIBLE BEFORE YOU PLANT. 
          IS THAT THE GAME PLAN OR IS THAT PART OF THE IT'S NOT A LARGE AREA AND IT SEEMS JUST WITH, I THINK IT WAS 10 BY 10. 
          MM-HMM . 
          YES. 
          AND JUST WITH SIMPLE GARDENING EQUIPMENT, IT SEEMS BREAKING UP A LITTLE BIT. 
          YEAH. 
          YOU COULD GET THOSE ROCKS OUT OF THERE. 
          OKAY. 
          AND I WILL SAY THAT I DID HAVE SOME CORRESPONDENCE, UM, WITH MR. PULASKI ABOUT WHAT WAS OWED AND TALKED TO MR. BADGER ABOUT IT. 
          'CAUSE HE HAD REMARKED AT THE JULY MEETING ABOUT WHAT WAS OWED TO US A RESTORATION PLAN. 
          AND I WAS HOPEFUL OF GETTING AN ACTUAL OVERVIEW OF, OF, OF THE PLAN, MEANING A MAP SHOWING EXACTLY WHERE EVERYTHING WOULD BE PLANTED. 
          UM, BUT THIS IS ALL MR. PULASKI WOULD PROVIDE ME. 
          WOULD IT BE APPROPRIATE FOR ME TO, UH, HAVE THE DMRC REP COME UP AND JUST ASK HER OPINION IF EVERYTHING'S, UH, I'D LIKE TO DO THAT. 
          OKAY. 
          IF YOU DON'T MIND, YOU MAY SWEAR IN, I GUESS WE'LL GET YOU UP HERE, . 
          I, I THINK WE NEED TO DO OUR HANDS. 
          UH, DO YOU SWEAR TO TELL THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH? YES, SIR. 
          MM-HMM . 
          YES, SIR. 
          UM, FOR THE RECORD, CAN YOU JUST STATE YOUR NAME AGAIN? OH, KIRSTEN TRAVIS. 
          I'M WITH THE VMRC COVERING FOR CLEAR. 
          SORRY, SORRY FOR BEING DETAILED. 
          NO, IT'S FINE. 
          . 
          UM, SO YOUR QUESTION, COULD YOU PLEASE REPEAT IT? WELL, JUST IN REGARDS TO THE OVERALL RE-PLANNING PLAN AND THE MONITORING PLAN AND ALL THE THINGS THAT WE HAVE HERE, ARE YOU SATISFIED WITH IT OR FROM YOUR PERSONAL, OR IS THIS MAYBE YOU DIDN'T HAVE A CHANCE TO LOOK AT CAREFULLY YET? YEAH, SO BEING THAT I'M COVERING FOR CLAIRE, I HAVEN'T HAD A CHANCE TO LOOK AT IT. 
          UM, ALTOGETHER THOUGH, IT IS KIND OF UP TO YOUR DISCRETION IF THE BOARD FEELS THAT THIS PLAN IS ADEQUATE ENOUGH, UM, I DON'T REALLY HAVE OR CAN'T REALLY GIVE MUCH OF A OPINION ON IT. 
          YES. 
          YEAH. 
          OKAY. 
          ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? WAS THERE ANYTHING THAT WE LEFT OUT AS FAR AS YOU CAN TELL? OR ANY, AND I'M NOT ASKING YOU QUESTIONS, LIKE THAT'S WHY YOU CAN'T TELL US. 
          THAT'S OKAY. 
          . 
          YEP. 
          AS LONG AS YOU FEEL OR DO, OR IF YOU FEEL LIKE YOU HAVE MORE QUESTIONS, YOU KNOW, OR IF YOU FEEL LIKE THIS IS EFFICIENT, IT'S UP TO YOU ALL. 
          THEY, THEY TRAIN YOU WELL DOWN AT BMRC. 
          I TRY, UNLIKE ME , WHO WOULD GIVE YOU AN ANSWER, YOU CAN GIVE US AS MUCH ADVICE AS POSSIBLE. 
          THANK YOU. 
          APPRECIATE IT. 
          UH, SO, UM, PAUL, WHAT'S YOUR THOUGHTS ON THE, UM, THE PLANNING IATION PLAN? UM, I WOULD JUST SAY THAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE A OVERHEAD VIEW OF, YOU KNOW, WHERE IT'S GOING TO BE PLANTED. 
          UM, IT JUST SEEMS LIKE HIS DESCRIPTION SOUNDS MM-HMM . 
          LIKE SOMETHING THAT IS, UH, THAT, THAT THE BOARD ORDERED MM-HMM . 
          BUT FROM AN ENFORCEMENT, UH, PERSPECTIVE, IT'S, IT WOULD BE HARD TO ENFORCE WITHOUT AN OVERHEAD VIEW OF EXACTLY WHERE EVERYTHING'S GOING. 
          MM-HMM . 
          YEAH, IF WE COULD GET THAT, UH, I, I'M SATISFIED IT'S MINIMAL, BUT IT'S, I THINK UNDER THE CIRCUMSTANCES IT WOULD, IT WOULD BE ENOUGH IF WE CAN GET A, UH, AN OVERHEAD PLAN VIEW. 
          I DON'T EVEN WANNA CALL IT A PLAN VIEW. 
          I JUST WANT TO, YOU KNOW, A 10 FOOT BY 10 FOOT AREA ON A TAX MAP OR WHATEVER WOULD BE, 
          [00:20:01]
I THINK WOULD BE FINE. 
          SOMETHING SIMPLE. 
          UNLESS Y'ALL HAVE SOME OTHER THOUGHTS. 
          I'M JUST SORT CURIOUS, DO WE NEED TO VOTE ON THE APPROPRIATENESS OF THE MITIGATION PLAN? IS THAT SOMETHING WE SHOULD VOTE ON OR MAKE A MOTION? I THINK THAT MIGHT BE APPROPRIATE SINCE IT'S PART OF THE OVERALL FROM WE THAT YEAH, I THINK WE'VE ALREADY ORDERED THAT. 
          SO WE ORDERED, WE ORDERED 10 TO 10 MINUTE AGO RESTORATION, SO WE'VE ALREADY ORDERED THAT. 
          THAT'S, AND I THINK WE LEFT IT UP TO STAFF TO OKAY. 
          APPROVE THE PLAN, I THINK. 
          MM-HMM . 
          SO I THINK WE'RE GOOD. 
          ANYBODY ELSE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? YOU OKAY WITH THAT, PAUL? YES. 
          YES. 
          UM, SO THE NEXT ORDER OF BUSINESS IS THE JPA. 
          THAT'S BEFORE THE BOARD, THE ONE JPA. 
          UM, AND THIS IS REPAIRS TO A BULKHEAD KIND OF UNUSUAL REPAIRS IN THAT THEY ARE, UH, IT'S A WOODEN BULKHEAD AND THEY'RE PUTTING, UH, UH, BULKHEAD PIECES BEHIND IT. 
          UH, IT'S, UH, CAMP HAN AT 94 8 3 CAMP LANE ON TALLS CREEK OFF OF AHAN CREEK. 
          AND THE BULKHEAD IS IN POOR CONDITION. 
          UM, MADE A COUPLE OF SITE VISITS TO LOOK AT IT. 
          UH, THERE'S SUBSTANCE BEHIND THE BULKHEAD, UH, WITH WETLANDS. 
          AND THEN THERE ARE CLEAR HOLES, SUNLIGHT COMING THROUGH THE BULKHEAD THAT CONNECT THOSE WETLANDS TO STATE WATERS. 
          UM, ESTIMATE OF SIX SQUARE FEET OF NON VEGETATIVE WETLANDS BEHIND THE BULKHEAD THAT ARE CONNECTED TO STATE WATERS. 
          HERE IS A MAP OF THE PROPERTY, UM, MAP OF SURROUNDING PROPERTIES, UM, THAT, UH, SHOW THE APPROXIMATE OR THE OVERALL LOCATION, UH, RIGHT HERE IN THE YELLOW. 
          AND THE BULKHEAD IS THIS STRUCTURE RIGHT HERE. 
          THIS IS FROM 2025. 
          UH, EARLIER PICTURES, UM, WERE VERY POOR QUALITY IN THE COUNTY SYSTEM. 
          HERE IS A PLANNED VIEW. 
          UM, YOU CAN SEE THESE ARE THE AREAS WHERE THERE'S SUBSTANCE BEHIND THE BULKHEAD AND THE SIDE VIEW SHOWING, UH, THE PLAN OF HOW THEY'RE GOING TO REPAIR THIS. 
          UH, THEY'RE BASICALLY GONNA PUT THIS VINYL SHEATHING BEHIND THE WOODEN BULKHEAD, UM, AND THEN TIE IT ALL TOGETHER WITH THE EXISTING DEAD MAN. 
          AND HERE ARE SOME PICTURES UP AND DOWN THE BULKHEAD, UH, SHOWING THE SUBSTANCE AND THE WETLANDS. 
          YOU CAN SEE RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE PICTURE, THERE'S A SUNLIGHT COMING THROUGH A AND ANOTHER SPOT, A HOLE IN THE BULKHEAD SHOWING, UH, CONNECTION TO STATE WATERS IN THE WETLANDS BEHIND THE BULKHEAD. 
          THAT'S ANOTHER VIEW OF THAT SAME HOLE IN THE BULKHEAD. 
          AND I DO BELIEVE THERE ARE, UM, AT LEAST ONE PERSON FROM CAMP HAN HERE, UM, WHO WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK ON THIS. 
          OKAY. 
          WOULD YOU COME UP AND SURE. 
          BE SWORN IN. 
          STATE YOUR NAME. 
          MY NAME'S JOEL COLEMAN. 
          DO YOU SWEAR TO TELL THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH, AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH, SO HELP YOU GOD? I DO. 
          OKAY. 
          ALRIGHT. 
          I JUST SHARED THAT. 
          MY NAME IS JOEL COLEMAN. 
          I'M THE DIRECTOR AT CAMP ONIC. 
          UH, WE ARE A FAITH-BASED MINISTRY. 
          WE'VE BEEN DOING THAT SINCE 1958 AND SERVING THE SHORE. 
          OUR BOARD IS DISTRESSED ABOUT THE WAY HAN ON THE BAY HAS BEEN HANDLED THROUGH THIS PROCESS OF ITS REPAIR TO ITS BULKHEAD, ESPECIALLY GIVEN THE UNDERSTANDING FROM RELIABLE SOURCES THAT WE WERE ABLE TO MOVE FORWARD WITH REPAIRS BACK IN JULY. 
          AT THE END OF JULY, OUR BOARD REPRESENTATIVE WHO HANDLES BUILDING PERMITS WITH THE COUNTY WAS CONTACTED AND INFORMED THAT A JPA PERMIT WAS REQUIRED TO CONSTRUCT A BULKHEAD. 
          OUR BOARD REPRESENTATIVE RESPONDED THAT WE ARE ONLY DOING MAINTENANCE FOR THE AREA THAT EXPERIENCED EROSION. 
          AND IN INITIATING PREVENTIVE MAINTENANCE FOR THE REST OF THE BULKHEAD. 
          THE BOARD REPRESENTATIVE HAD BEEN INFORMED THAT BECAUSE THE WORK TO BE COMPLETED WAS ON THE WARD SIDE OF THE BULKHEAD AND THE AREA OF DISTURBANCE DID NOT EXCEED 25 SQUARE 2,500 SQUARE FEET. 
          A JPA WAS NOT REQUIRED. 
          ON AUGUST 1ST, WE CONTACTED PROFESSIONAL HELP TO ASSIST US WITH THE PROCESS. 
          THE INDIVIDUAL ADVISED US THAT A MEETING WITH 
          [00:25:01]
VMRC REPRESENTATIVE COULD ALLOW US TO BEGIN MAINTENANCE WORK OR EMERGENCY REPAIRS. 
          WE HAD MEETINGS SCHEDULED FOR VMRC REPRESENTATIVE ON AUGUST 14TH AND THE 21ST, BUT BOTH WERE CANCELED. 
          OUR RESCHEDULED MEETING ON AUGUST 28TH WAS DELAYED FOR THREE HOURS BEYOND THE ORIGINAL MEETING TIME. 
          THEY FINALLY INFORMED US THAT WE NEEDED TO SUBMIT A JPA. 
          OUR REPRESENTATIVE APPLIED FOR THE JPA. 
          THE PROCESS REQUIRED US TO REACH OUT TO THE ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS AND VMRC. 
          THEY SAID THAT NO PERMIT WAS REQUIRED AND SIGNED OFF ON THE PROJECT AS MAINTENANCE. 
          THIS WASTED VALUABLE TIME AND BROUGHT US BACK TO THE BEGINNING OF THE PROCESS. 
          THAT MOMENT SPIRALED US INTO A SERIES OF CONVERSATIONS, COST AND ANXIETY OVER BEING ABLE TO REPAIR OUR BULKHEAD. 
          WE WERE PREVENTED FROM MOVING FORWARD SEVERAL TIMES, EVEN THOUGH WE HAD EXPERT ADVICE, DOCUMENTATION, PROVING WE WERE WITHIN OUR BOUNDS. 
          AND EXAMPLES OF OTHER BULKHEADS LIKE OURS THAT HAD AVOIDED THIS LEVEL OF PERMITTING. 
          WE WATCHED THE DETERIORATION OF OUR BULKHEAD WENT FROM A SMALL HOLE TO A MUCH BIGGER PROBLEM. 
          WE HAD AN URGENT NEED TO FIX THE PROBLEM WITH REGULAR WEEKEND GUESTS, MANY OF WHOM ARE UNDER THE AGE OF THREE OUT OF CONCERN. 
          WE ENCIRCLED THE BEAUTIFUL WORSHIP SITE WITH CAUTION TAPE. 
          UNFORTUNATELY, YOUNG CHILDREN DO NOT ABIDE BY CAUTION TAPE. 
          YOU SEE, THE LIABILITY INCREASES DURING THE FALL SEASON BECAUSE OUR STAFF DO NOT PROVIDE DIRECT SUPERVISION FOR CHILDREN. 
          SO WEDDING GROUPS, FAMILY RETREATS AND DISTRICT EVENTS PUT US IN A VERY COMPROMISING SITUATION. 
          WE DO NOT WANT ANYONE TO GET HURT OUT OF CONCERN FOR OUR FAMILIES AND THE ENVIRONMENT. 
          WE APPLY FOR EMERGENCY REPAIR TO GET THINGS STARTED, AND THAT EFFORT WAS ALSO STOPPED. 
          HOW DOES ANYONE WIN BY PREVENTING US FROM MOVING FORWARD? OUR ORGANIZATION IS EXPERIENCED ADDITIONAL COST AND DAMAGES. 
          IT IS NOW FACING NEW CHALLENGES. 
          AS WE HEAD INTO THE WINTER SEASON. 
          WE ARE ASKING IF THE BOARD FEELS WE DID NOT NEED THE PERMIT, WOULD THEY BE WILLING TO WAIVE OUR PERMITTING FEES? WE APPRECIATE THE WORK OF THE WETLANDS BOARD IN PROTECTING THE AND CARING FOR OUR ENVIRONMENT. 
          WE SERVE PEOPLE IN GOD'S CREATION AND WE SEE OURSELVES AS STEWARDS OF GOD'S CREATION. 
          I THINK THESE PRINCIPLES ARE COMPATIBLE WITH THE WETLANDS BOARD. 
          WE ARE THANKFUL FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO BE HEARD, AND HOPEFULLY WE WILL BE ABLE TO PUT THIS CHAPTER BEHIND US AND SEE A SAFE REPAIRED BULKHEAD AT HANOCK ON THE BAY, RESPECTIVELY SUBMITTED. 
          REVEREND JOEL COLEMAN. 
          AND I DO HAVE, UH, NORMAN HERE ALSO, WHO, IF YOU HAVE ANY COMMENTS THAT YOU'D LIKE TO MAKE, UM, I'LL, I'LL PROBABLY GET CALLED UP. 
          SO I'LL MAKE THOSE COMMENTS THEN. 
          THANK YOU. 
          THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR, FOR LISTENING TO ME. 
          NOR DO YOU WANT TO COME UP , HE'S GONNA BE CALLED UP MORNING. 
          UM, OH. 
          UH, DO YOU SWEAR TO TELL THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH FOR THE HELP OF GOD? YES. 
          UM, I WAS, UH, CALLED IN ON THIS PROCESS WHEN, UM, I GUESS THEY HAD TALKED TO ELLEN GRIND. 
          AND FROM THE ONSET ELLEN GRIND SAW IT THE SAME WAY I SAW IT. 
          IT WAS AN EMERGENCY, UH, FIX THAT, UH, WE COULD SAVE A LOT OF TIME, A LOT OF EFFORT AT EMERGENCY FIX. 
          I CONTACTED, UM, THE, UH, UH, VMRC ALONG WITH UH, UH, MR. WATSON. 
          WE CAME DOWN TO THE SITE AND I WENT DOWN SEVERAL TIMES TRYING TO WATCH, BUT I WILL DISAGREE WITH HIM ON ONE THING THAT BULKHEAD INTACT, IT'S NOT IN POOR CONDITION. 
          DOWN THE BOTTOM, THOSE SITES YOU SEE THERE, AND I THINK THEY CAME FROM, WE ALL KNOW HOW SALT TREATED WOOD IS AROUND THE SHORE. 
          YOU GET THOSE WORMS THAT BORN. 
          SO, BUT FOR AS BEING INTACT, I SAY THAT THING IS RIGHT AROUND 80 TO 90% INTACT. 
          I ASKED FOR AN EMERGENCY, UM, YOU KNOW, PERMIT. 
          SO THEY COULD GO IN AND DO THE WORK. 
          THEY COULD GO IN AND GET THE WORK DONE, GET IT OVER WITH. 
          AND EVEN IF WE HAD TO DO A JPA BEHIND THAT, AND I WENT TO ALL THE WEBSITE AND I'M FAMILIAR WITH HOW TO DO THIS, EVEN THOUGH IT WAS SAID, I WASN'T, I'M FAMILIAR HOW TO DO THIS. 
          YOU GO IN, YOU DO YOUR EMERGENCY PERMIT, AND AFTER THE FINDINGS, THEN WE COME TO THE BOARD AND WE'RE, THEY'RE TAKEN. 
          BUT THE OLD WAY, WE USED TO DO IT, AND I KNOW THINGS HAS CHANGED WITH ME AND DAVID HORT, 'CAUSE I USED TO DO THIS ALSO, DAVID HORT. 
          WE WOULD GO DOWN AND WE LOOK AT IT. 
          IF IT WAS SOMETHING LIKE THIS, NORMALLY WE DON'T HAVE TO GO TO THE JPA PROCESS. 
          WHAT WE'LL DO WE GIVE THEM A BUILDING PERMIT. 
          IF THE SQUARE FOOTAGE WAS TOO SMALL TO TRIGGER THE BAY ACT, THEN I WOULD GIVE THEM AN ENS PERMIT, WHICH STILL 
          [00:30:01]
CAUSE THE OVERSIGHT FOR ME AS THE ENVIRONMENTAL STEWARD. 
          I WOULD GO DOWN AND WATCH IT. 
          BUT IF WE HAD DID THIS, UH, AND I'LL AGREE WITH THIS SQUARE FOOTAGE. 
          IF WE HAD DID THIS, UH, MONTE SO AGO, WE PROBABLY WOULD STILL BE AT THIS BOARD. 
          BUT THE PROBLEM WOULD'VE BEEN SOLVED, THE PROBLEM WOULD'VE BEEN SOLVED, AND THE PROLONGING OF IT CAUSED OTHER WASH OUT AREAS. 
          THE MAIN PROBLEM WAS THAT ONCE THOSE HOLES GOT IN THERE, THE FILL THE CLOTH ON THE BACK FAILED. 
          SO WHAT WE WERE PLANNING, WHAT I WAS HOPING TO PLAN THEM TO DO IS JUST TO GO IN WITH THE, FILL THE CLOTH, PUT MORE, FILL THE CLOTH IN THAT, JUST TO HOLD IT. 
          OKAY. 
          UNTIL THIS PROCESS WENT THROUGH. 
          BUT THEY WERE TOLD THE ONLY THING THEY COULD DO WAS PATCH THE HOLES AND THE ODDEST THING. 
          WE ASKED THEM A QUESTION. 
          CAN WE PATCH IT ON THE WATER SIDE OR THE LANGUAGE SIDE? IT DOESN'T MATTER. 
          WELL, I'VE SEEN GUYS THAT JUST GO IN, THEY WOULDN'T EVEN ASK. 
          THEY WOULD JUST PUT PUSH DIRT RIGHT IN IT, PUT THE NEW BOARD IN AND KEPT RIGHT ON RUNNING. 
          AND IT WASN'T LIKE THIS, IT WAS THE ONLY, I THINK THE ONLY WAY THE COUNTY WAS EVEN NOTIFIED WAS DUE TO ANOTHER INSPECTION ON THE SITE. 
          AND I JUST COULDN'T FIGURE OUT HOW YOU GET A STOCK WORK ORDER AND YOU'RE NOT WORKING. 
          SO THEY WERE, OUR WORK WAS HELD, BUT IT WAS A LOT OF THINGS. 
          AND I KNOW, UM, STAFF IS NEW AND I WAS, I WENT DOWN THAT DAY AND I HAD A CONVERSATION WITH VMRC AND MR. WATSON, AND IT GOT TO A POINT WHERE THERE WAS NO WINNING. 
          AND THE GENTLEMAN CAN TELL YOU THE SAME THING. 
          I JUST WENT DOWN THE OTHER END AND TURNED MY BACK JUST LIKE, HERE WE GO. 
          BECAUSE I KNOW IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN DONE, COULD HAVE BEEN DONE BY AN EMERGENCY AND, AND YOU KNOW, WE MIGHT END UP WITH THE SAME THING, BUT AT LEAST THE AREA WOULD'VE BEEN PREVENTED FROM FURTHER THE EROSION. 
          THAT'S, THAT'S ALL I CAN ASK. 
          YOU DID, UM, TWO THINGS. 
          IS THAT THE ONLY HOLE THAT'S, THAT'S THERE? WELL, ACTUALLY THAT IF YOU LOOK AT THE PLAN VIEW, UM, IT DIDN'T ACTUALLY MOVED AROUND NOW. 
          RIGHT. 
          OKAY. 
          IT DOESN'T ACTUALLY MOVED AROUND TO HERE. 
          YOU HAVE ANOTHER ONE. 
          AND ALSO, AND I DON'T, NOT SURE WHAT CAUSED THIS, I DON'T KNOW IF IT WAS THE LAST STORM WE HAD DUE TO WAVE ACTION. 
          IT ROLLED AROUND THE CORNER AND WHERE THE UM, WHICH WOULDN'T HAVE HAPPENED IF YOU WEREN'T ALLOWED TO PATCH IT. 
          YEAH. 
          IF ALL STAR. 
          I THINK THAT WAS SO, YEAH, EXACTLY. 
          THE OTHER QUESTION I HAVE, AND I MIGHT HAVE MISHEARD HIM. 
          THE, THE REVEREND. 
          YEAH. 
          YOU SAID YOU HAVE A LETTER FROM THE VMRC SAYING NO PERMIT REQUIRED. 
          YES, BOTH. 
          BUT UH, YEAH. 
          UH, WE WOULD SENT A LETTER, I THINK TWO DAYS AGO. 
          I RECEIVED IT TWO DAYS AGO. 
          THEN TO ME NO PERMIT ONCE YOU PATCHED THAT HOLE MM-HMM . 
          IT'S NO LONGER CONTINUOUS. 
          WHEN SHE PASSED THAT WHOLE, IT'S NO PERMIT DEPARTMENT OF THE MC. 
          ONCE SHE PASSED THAT HOLE, YOU NO LONGER THAT, THAT, THAT. 
          YEAH, I AGREE. 
          IT'S NO LONGER CONTINUOUS. 
          MM-HMM . 
          YOU WHAT I'M SAYING. 
          SO, BUT NOW WITH THE NEW PROCESS, WHAT WE HAVE TO DO, IF YOU PUT IN A JPA, YOU DON'T FOLLOW WITH BMRC, YOU FOLLOW WITH THE CORE ENGINEERS. 
          SO WHAT HAPPENED IS IT GO THROUGH ALL THE CHANNELS AND ALL THE CHANNEL HAVE TO CHECK THE BOX IMMEDIATELY. 
          I THINK HER NAME IS HEATHER FROM THE, UH, CORPS OF ENGINEERS. 
          SHE CALLED ME AND SHE CALLED ME PERSONALLY AND SHE WAS LIKE, UM, YOU, YOU WON'T NEED A PERMIT FROM US. 
          UH, YEAH. 
          THIS IS JESSE MAINTENANCE. 
          SO I DIDN'T, I THINK PAUL TOOK WHAT I WAS TELLING HIM THE WRONG WAY. 
          I WAS CALLED TELLING PAUL THAT, YOU KNOW, CAN YOU SEE IT AS MAINTENANCE? HOPING THAT HE WOULD ACTUALLY SAY, WELL, GO AHEAD, BUT DEAL YOU STILL, WE DONE DONE THE JPA GO AHEAD AND DO IT AT THE EMERGENCY. 
          AND I THINK HE KIND OF TOOK IT THE WRONG WAY. 
          'CAUSE SHE CALLED ME LATER AND SAID, WELL, I GOT A CALL FROM PAULA AND I DON'T, WHAT DID SHE TELL ME? SHE SAID, NORMAN, YOU CAN'T GO AND DO THE WORK. 
          I SAID, I KNOW WE CAN'T 'CAUSE WE GOT A JPA, SO EVERYBODY. 
          AND I WAS LIKE, NO, I JUST THINK IT WAS A MISINTERPRETATION IN OUR CONVERSATION. 
          AND UH, SO WE JUST LET IT GO AND WE JUST, AND WE ARE HERE TODAY. 
          UM, I ALREADY TOLD THE BOARD THAT, UH, UH, MY COMPANY WOULD SUPPLY THE TOP SOIL, DO THE BACK FILLER AND STUFF, JUST TRYING TO HELP 'EM OUT TO GET THIS THING DONE. 
          UM, SO NOW I HATE TO BE STEEPY, BUT IF YOU PUT THE REPAIR ON THE BMRC SIDE PERMIT, PERMIT PERMIT, YOU PUT THE BOARD YEAH. 
          THE PERMIT BMRC. 
          BUT THAT PART, WHAT YOU PUT IT ON THE, THAT SIDE. 
          YEAH. 
          AND THEN, THEN THAT, THAT WETLAND IS NO LONGER CONTINUOUS AFTER IT'S FIXED. 
          THAT, THAT, THAT, UH, IT'S NO LONGER CONTINUOUS, DO YOU WHAT I'M SAYING, WAY I GOT, THAT'S WHAT MAKES IT IN OUR JURISDICTION. 
          MM-HMM . 
          YES. 
          DO YOU GET WHAT I'M SAYING? NO, NO, NO. 
          I UNDERSTAND IT. 
          I I DEFINITELY UNDERSTAND IT. 
          I, THE ONLY, I GUESS THE ONLY PROBLEM I HAD WITH IT WAS THAT WHY COULDN'T WE JUST DO IT AT THE EMERGENCY ACT? YOU KNOW, THAT THAT GETS ME AND I, AND YOU DON'T, YOU DON'T QUALIFY FOR EMERGENCY WETLANDS ACT. 
          OKAY. 
          OKAY. 
          AND I'M JUST ASKING, I'M JUST ASKING BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW. 
          BECAUSE NOTHING IS AT THIS POINT ABOUT TO FALL INTO THE WATER. 
          IF IT WAS A HOUSE OR A WELL OR SEPTIC SYSTEM, THAT'S ONE THING. 
          BUT THIS IS QUITE A WAYS AWAY FROM THE HOME AND ANY OF THE SYSTEM. 
          SO YOU DIDN'T QUALIFY FOR THE EMERGENCY ACT. 
          OKAY. 
          SO NOW I ASK YOU ANOTHER QUESTION. 
          HANK, AND I MIGHT BE GOING OUT OF MY ROOM ON THIS ONE MM-HMM . 
          BUT THE WHOLE BAY ACT PROTECTION THING IS TO STOP SETTING SEDIMENT YEAH. 
          INTO THE WATER MM-HMM . 
          RIGHT? SO WITH DEALING WITH THREE DIFFERENT FUNCTION HERE, I CALL IT, IF I'M WORKING ON THE E-S-I-E-N-S-I FIRST THING, I WOULD SAY, WE GOTTA STOP IT, YOU KNOW, AND I WOULD GOT ON 'EM PRETTY HARD. 
          BUT I DO UNDERSTAND 
          [00:35:01]
WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, MR. BADGER, THAT IT'S, UH, UNDER THE VMRC AND I THOUGHT IT, AND I EVEN MENTIONED SOMETHING ABOUT THE LIFE OF, I BOUGHT THAT UP. 
          THAT'S WHAT WE USED TO CALL IT BY SHORT. 
          BUT I DO UNDERSTAND. 
          BUT THE MAIN THING I WAS CONCERNED ABOUT ME BEING A SHORE BOY, SEDIMENT GETTING IN THE WATER MM-HMM . 
          HOW DO WE STOP THAT SEDIMENT AS FAST AS WE CAN. 
          YEAH. 
          AND YOU KNOW, NOWADAYS WITH FERTILIZER HERBICIDES, YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW IT'S BEING PUT ON THE UPLAND IN THERE. 
          BUT I WILL SAY THIS, I DON'T BELIEVE, AND I THIS IS NOT, THIS WON'T, EVEN THE SQUARE FOOTAGE WON'T EVEN TRIGGER A BA UH, UH, RPA REVIEW BECAUSE IT'S UNDER 2,500 SQUARE FEET. 
          MM-HMM . 
          BUT IT WILL TRIGGER ENSI WILL SAY THAT. 
          UM, ANY FURTHER QUESTION? YEAH. 
          AS FAR AS THE WETLAND, I MEAN, AS FAR AS VM C'S CONCERNED, IF IT'S CHANNEL WORD OF MEAN, LOW WARDS IN THEIR JURISDICTION MM-HMM . 
          SO THEY DECIDED THAT IT WAS ABOVE THEIR JURISDICTION. 
          MM-HMM . 
          AND THAT'S WHY YOU GOT THE NO PERMIT REQUIRED LAW. 
          MM-HMM. 
          I UNDERSTAND FROM THEM. 
          HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE YEAH, I KNOW. 
          I KNOW. 
          IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH WETLANDS BOARD. 
          I, AND I WILL LET THE WETLAND, I WILL LET THIS BOARD KNOW THIS. 
          I KNOW THAT THE CORE ENGINEERS, THEN YOU JUMP INTO THE WETLANDS BOARD AND THEN WE JUMP INTO THE JURISDICTION. 
          NOW, SOME OF THOSE JURISDICTION DO OVERLAP, RIGHT, MR. BADGER. 
          THEY DO, THEY DO OVERLAP. 
          THEY DO OVERLAP. 
          BUT ONCE THEY GET BEHIND THAT BULKHEAD, IT'S STRICTLY YOUR, YOUR BALL, YOUR HORSE, HOW YOU RIDE IT. 
          THAT'S UP TO YOU. 
          THAT'S WHAT I WAS ALWAYS TAUGHT, YOU KNOW, SO, AND I, I AGREE WITH EVERYTHING. 
          YOU, YOU READ THAT MR. BECAUSE GUESS WHAT, MR. BADGER, I DID MY HOMEWORK TOO. 
          I DO DO MY HOMEWORK. 
          SO I DID UNDERSTAND THAT AND I DIDN'T. 
          BUT, UM, I JUST HOPE EVERYTHING GO UP. 
          WE CAN GO AHEAD AND GET THAT THING STARTED AND, AND, YOU KNOW, THE BOARD GIVE WHATEVER Y'ALL WANT TO DO. 
          AS LONG AS WE'RE ABLE TO TAKE THIS THING AND PUT IT TO BED, THAT'S WHAT WE WE'RE TRYING TO DO. 
          MM-HMM . 
          OKAY. 
          DO YOU, DO YOU WANT TO SPEAK AGAIN OR? WELL, I JUST, I JUST, YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT THE EMERGENCY OF THE ENVIRONMENT. 
          WE, I BROUGHT UP THE EMERGENCY OF OUR KIDS. 
          SO, I MEAN, WE'RE JUST CONSTANTLY IN A STATE OF WORRY WITH A TWO OR 3-YEAR-OLD THAT'S GONNA WALK INTO THAT HOLE AND GET HURT AND HARMED. 
          THAT'S WHAT THE EMERGENCY IS FROM THE PROGRAM SIDE AND FROM OUR MINISTRY SIDE. 
          UM, I UNDERSTAND THE ENVIRONMENTAL ISSUES AND WE DO CARE ABOUT THE ENVIRONMENT, BUT TO US, CHILDREN ARE IMPORTANT TOO. 
          SO THAT'S WHERE WE STAND. 
          COULD I ASK, UH, I DON'T KNOW IF I'M ABLE TO DO THIS, BUT COULD I ASK MR. WATSON JUST ONE QUESTION. 
          UH, IF, IF F PERMITTED, HOW SOON COULD WE, WELL, I ASKED THE BOARD F PERMITTED, AND Y'ALL GRANTED UP THE PERMIT AND EVERYTHING IS MADE. 
          HOW SOON COULD THEY START? JUST SEEMS THAT IF IT, WELL, I GUESS IF, IF IT IS MITIGATION, YEAH. 
          THERE'S MITIGATION FEES INVOLVED. 
          AS SOON AS YOU PAY THOSE, I THINK, YOU KNOW, AT THAT, UH, YOU ALREADY GOT THE CORES. 
          YOU ALREADY GOT THE CORES LETTER, AND YOU'VE ALREADY GOT YEAH. 
          AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT, THAT'S WHAT THE, THEIR BOARD, THAT'S WHAT THEIR BOARD IS SO CONCERNED ABOUT. 
          YEAH. 
          WE'LL GET, WE CAN GO EXPEDITE IT AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. 
          YEAH. 
          OKAY. 
          WE GET THAT EXPEDITE. 
          I'M SORRY. 
          THIS, IF I COULD RESPOND TO HOW THIS KIND OF TRANSPIRED. 
          UM, THE FIRST THING THAT HAPPENED WAS ONE OF OUR BUILDING INSPECTORS WAS DOWN THERE LOOKING AT A BUILDING PROJECT AND TOOK, TOOK SOME PICTURES OF THE VINYL SHEATHING AND THE SUBSTANCE AND SENT IT TO ME. 
          UM, I CONTACTED CAMP HANOCK AND SAID, I THINK YOU NEED A JPA, UH, FOR THESE REPAIRS WITH WHAT I'M SEEING WITH THE PICTURES. 
          AT THAT POINT, I DID NOT KNOW THAT THESE WERE CONTIGUOUS WATERS. 
          I JUST SAW WETLANDS BEHIND THERE. 
          AND, AND, UH, THEY DISAGREED WITH THAT. 
          SO I CALLED VMRC, TALKED TO VMRC, SENT THEM THE PICTURES. 
          THEY TOLD ME THAT IT, THIS DID NEED A-A-J-P-A, WHETHER THERE WAS A HOLE IN THE BULKHEAD OR NOT. 
          UH, THIS LEVEL OF REPAIR, THIS LEVEL OF SUBSTANCE DID NEED A JPA. 
          I THEN INFORMED THEM THAT I HAD TALKED TO BMRC, AND THIS WAS IN, UH, LATE JULY, I BELIEVE. 
          AND THAT A JPA WAS REQUIRED. 
          UM, THE NEXT COMMUNICATION I GOT WAS THAT THEY HAD TALKED TO ELLEN GRIMES AND SHE DISAGREED AND SAID, NO, JJPA WAS REQUIRED. 
          I THEN SPOKE WITH ELLEN, DESCRIBED THE SITUATION, AND I, I GUESS CAN ONLY CHARACTERIZE HER RESPONSES THAT, UH, SHE NO LONGER, I DON'T BELIEVE, DISAGREED WITH ME. 
          'CAUSE I NEVER HEARD FROM HER AGAIN ABOUT THIS. 
          AND, UH, THAT'S WHEN MR. PITT CAME IN. 
          UM, WE, UH, MEANING CLAIRE GORMAN OF EMRC, AND I VISITED THE SITE, UM, THAT WAS ARRANGED, I BELIEVE, THROUGH CLAIRE. 
          UM, AND AT THAT POINT IN AUGUST, WE DID VISIT THE SITE AND DID SEE AT THAT POINT THE HOLES IN THE BULKHEAD AND INFORMED THEM AGAIN THAT A JPA WAS REQUIRED, JUST LIKE I HAD INFORMED THEM OR ORIGINALLY, AND THAT WE WOULD DO EVERYTHING WE COULD, UH, TO GET THIS SPED UP. 
          UM, WHEN I TALKED TO THEM ORIGINALLY BACK IN JULY, I, I DID NOT KNOW THAT THERE WAS A HOLE IN THE BULKHEAD, THEREFORE, I WOULD'VE BEEN ABLE TO GO DOWN TO THE SITE, LOOK AT IT, UH, SEE NO CONNECTION TO STATE WATERS AND WOULD NOT HAVE 
          [00:40:01]
REQUIRED A HEARING. 
          OF COURSE, IT WAS ONLY WHEN WE SAW THE CONNECTION TO STATE WATERS THAT WE DETERMINED THAT A HEARING WAS REQUIRED. 
          AND AT ONE POINT, I DID GET A CALL FROM MR. PITT SAYING THAT THE ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS HAD ISSUED A LETTER SAYING NO PERMIT WAS NEEDED FROM THEM. 
          UM, THERE MAY HAVE BEEN A LITTLE BIT OF MIS MISCOMMUNICATION, BUT BASICALLY WHAT I UNDERSTOOD FROM HIM WAS THAT TOOK JURISDICTION AWAY FROM THE WETLANDS BOARD. 
          UM, SO I IMMEDIATELY CALLED THE ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS, SPOKE TO THE PERSON WHO ISSUED THE LETTER, UM, AND ASKED THEM WHY THEY HAD ISSUED THE LETTER SO QUICKLY. 
          UH, AND THE RESPONSE WAS THAT THE APPLICATION SAID THERE WERE NO AFFECTED WETLANDS. 
          AND I SAID, WELL, IT TURNS OUT THAT, YOU KNOW, I'D BEEN AT THE SITE LESS THAN A MONTH BEFORE, HAD SEEN THE WETLANDS AND SEEN THE CONNECTION OF, TO STATE WATERS. 
          AND THEY TOLD ME, WELL, YOU KNOW, WE ISSUED THE LETTER WE'RE WE CAN'T REALLY TAKE IT BACK. 
          I DON'T, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY THIS ISN'T THEIR BIGGEST PRIORITY. 
          UM, BUT THEN TALKED TO NORMAN AGAIN, AND WE TALKED ABOUT THE EFFECT OF THE ARMY CORPS LETTER AND, AND AGREED THAT I, I BELIEVE WE AGREED THAT A WETLANDS BOARD HEARING WAS STILL REQUIRED. 
          AND, UH, OF COURSE, WHAT THIS, WHAT IS BEFORE THE WETLANDS BOARD TODAY HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH VMRC, ISSUING A LETTER. 
          VMRC DEALS WITH STATE BOTTOM. 
          UH, AND SO I WOULD JUST SUBMIT THAT, UH, YOU KNOW, WE DO HAVE AFFECTED WETLANDS, CONTIGUOUS ESTATE WATERS. 
          UM, IT'S ABOUT SIX SQUARE FEET. 
          IT'S NOT MUCH. 
          UM, SO, UM, IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, I'LL BE HAPPY TO ANSWER 'EM. 
          I SPEAK, I'M, I, I'VE SIGNED UP TO SPEAK. 
          ALRIGHT, JUST A MINUTE. 
          THE, UH, HOW MUCH IS THE FEE? IT IS AS NOW PRESENTED MARKET BASED? MY UNDERSTANDING COULD BE ANYWHERE FROM 25, MAYBE UPWARDS OF $45 A SQUARE FOOT, JUST DEPENDING ON, UH, WHAT IT IS FROM, ON A DAY-TO-DAY BASIS. 
          PAUL, CAN YOU PUT THE EXEMPTIONS UP ON THE, ON THE SCREEN FOR, UH, WHAT MITIGATION FEES? I DON'T KNOW OF IT. 
          WHAT WHAT? YEAH, IT'S 26 50. 
          IS IS, IS, UH, OH, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT MITIGATION FEES. 
          MITIGATION FEES. 
          OKAY. 
          THE EXEMPTIONS. 
          I WOULDN'T, YEAH, THE EXEMPTIONS UP THERE. 
          UM, I MEAN, I DON'T HAVE IT PREPARED AS A SLOT. 
          OKAY. 
          ONE OF 'EM IS COMMERCIAL. 
          AM I RIGHT OR WRONG? KNOW? WE DID, WE DID COMMERCIAL FOR, UH, UM, WATCH A PARADE FOR, UH, SEAFOOD. 
          UM, WE, WE SAID WE DIDN'T. 
          NO, NO. 
          I THINK, UH, WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT IS THE YELLOW SHEET THAT WAS PREPARED YEAH. 
          BY, UH, YOUNG LADY BEFOREHAND. 
          AND THE IDEA WE WENT, IT WAS A CHECKLIST FOR COMMERCIAL PLACES WHEN IT CAME TO UNVEGETATED WETLANDS. 
          AND WE COULD EITHER DO AWAY WITH THE FEE OR REDUCE THE FEE BY A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE. 
          AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE REFERRING TO. 
          THERE'S A LIST THERE. 
          LIST. 
          THERE'S A LIST. 
          THERE'S A DEFINITELY LIST. 
          DID WE APPROVE? IT'S A YELLOW SHEET THAT SHE HAD AT THE TIME. 
          THE CHECK. 
          ROGER, I'M TELLING YOU, WE DID USE AGRICULTURE. 
          IF I HAD MY OTHER THING HERE, I WOULD HAVE A COPY OF IT. 
          BUT THERE'S LIKE FIVE OR SIX ITEMS ON IT. 
          YES, ABSOLUTELY. 
          THAT WE COULD DO. 
          A AND IT WAS ONE WITH, WE ALWAYS TALKED ABOUT ECONOMIC GOOD. 
          UH, WE TALKED ABOUT, UH, IF IT WAS IN THE PAST, USED FOR SIMILAR. 
          UH, WELL, THE ONE IN WA CREEK WAS A DREDGING PROJECT THAT HAD GONE INTERTIDAL RIGHT. 
          AND HAD BEEN DREDGED IN THE PAST. 
          THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT, AND IT WASN'T A LOSS 'CAUSE THEY WERE DREDGING. 
          RIGHT. 
          IT WASN'T A LOSS OF WETLANDS, IT WAS A CHANGE OF WETLANDS. 
          RIGHT. 
          AND THAT'S WHY WE DID NOT CHARGE THEM. 
          UM, I DO, I DO HAVE THE DOCUMENT BEFORE ME, AND PROBABLY THE BEST THING TO DO IS THE FASTEST THING TO DO IS FOR ME TO GO MAKE FIVE COPIES OF IT. 
          THAT'D GREAT. 
          SO EVERYBODY CAN LOOK AT IT. 
          SUPER. 
          IT'S THE IN LIE FEE WAIVER CHECKLIST WITH, UH, FOUR. 
          AND THIS IS WHAT YOU'RE REFERRING TO. 
          YES. 
          THANK. 
          GREAT. 
          SO WHILE WE'RE WAITING HERE, IN TERMS OF WHAT'S PROPOSED AS THE PLAN NOW FROM MR. PITTS, IS, IS IT STILL THE CONCEPT OF PUTTING A INSIDE LANDWARD? UH, YES. 
          OKAY. 
          UM, HERE'S THE SIDE VIEW. 
          AND YOU CAN SEE, SO THAT THAT'S STILL THE PLAN TO DO. 
          YES, SIR. 
          YOU CAN SEE THIS IS THE, UH, SHEATHING THAT'S GOING RIGHT BEHIND THE WOODEN, THE EXISTING WOODEN BULKHEAD AND THE SHEATHING THAT GOES RIGHT BEHIND IT. 
          MM-HMM . 
           I BELIEVE, OR ACTUALLY THAT'S THE SHEATHING, I GUESS. 
          BUT THE SHEATHING IS BEHIND THE BULK. 
          WELL, PERSONALLY, I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE PROJECT. 
          THAT'S, THAT'S NUMBER ONE. 
          IT'S JUST THE QUESTION OF HOW WE ADDRESS SOME OF THE ISSUES. 
          MM-HMM . 
          AND I TAKE IT, WE'RE JUST GONNA HAMMER THE VITAL DOWN. 
          YEAH. 
          IT'LL BE BETTER WORDS. 
          WE'RE GONNA HAVE MINIMAL DISTURBANCE. 
          [00:45:01]
DISTURBANCE, AND THEY'LL JUST GO BACK, DO THE SAME, SAME DEAD END. 
          THEY'RE GONNA SCREW BACK TO ALL ROCK DEAD, MR. PITT. 
          YES. 
          YES, SIR. 
          HOW? I DON'T SEE ANYWHERE ON THE DRAWINGS. 
          HOW MUCH, UH, BULKHEADING YOU'RE, YOU'RE PLANNING ON PUTTING IN, I SEE THE LENGTH OF THE BULKHEAD. 
          IS THAT THE INTENT TO GO THE ENTIRE LENGTH? THAT WAS YOUR YES. 
          MM-HMM . 
          OKAY. 
          THAT WAS GO THE ENTIRE, QUITE A BIT OF, THAT'S NOT GONNA BE IN OUR JURISDICTION. 
          AND I, I WILL SAY THIS, UM, I, IF YOU READ ON PAGE FIVE WHEN I DESCRIBED THIS, IF THE CORE ENGINEER, I MEAN PAGE NINE, IF THE CORE ENGINEERS READ THIS, THEY WERE SEATED THAT, THAT THEY, UM, I PUT IN A SMALL ISOLATED BREACHES IN THE EXISTING BULKHEAD SO THAT THEY KNEW THAT THERE WAS HOLES IN IT. 
          IT IS NOT LIKE I TRIED TO PULL THE WOOL OVER THEIR EYES. 
          I WENT, I MEAN, IT IS WHAT IT IS, YOU KNOW, SO, AND I MADE SURE I MADE THAT STATEMENT IN THERE. 
          UM, SO I'M PRETTY SURE HEATHER WAS AWARE THAT THERE WAS HOLES IN IT, YOU KNOW? UM, OKAY. 
          OH YEAH. 
          HE EVEN GOT IN THAT THE OBJECT IS TO SEAL THE HOLES WITH THE BODY. 
          SO DO YOU STILL WANT TO SPEAK? OH, YES, SIR. 
          I'M HERE. 
          MAKE BLOW UP . 
          WANNA KEEP YOUR BLOOD PRESSURE MINUTE, DON'T I? I'LL TRY NOT TO BLOW UP AND, AND HURT ANYBODY. 
          DO YOU SWEAR TO TELL THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH, AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH TO HELP YOU? GOD, I DO. 
          MY NAME'S WAYNE JOHNSON. 
          UH, I AM THE, THE PERSON THAT GETS CONTACTED ABOUT PERMITS AND STUFF IT, BACK WHEN WE FIRST, UH, NOTICE THIS, THE DETERIORATION, UH, I WOULD SAY THAT THE PLACE IN THAT SIX FOOT PLACE THAT THEY SHOW NOW WAS MAYBE A FOOT WIDE. 
          AND IT WAS ONLY 10 OR 12 INCHES DEEP, MAYBE A LITTLE DEEPER. 
          THAT WOULD'VE BEEN BACK IN MAY. 
          UH, WHEN VMRC AND MR. WATSON WAS DOWN THERE IN AUGUST, IT HAD GROWN, UH, TO ALL THE WAY TO THE BOTTOM. 
          AND THE HOLE WAS, UH, VISIBLE. 
          AND THE HOLE'S ABOUT, LIKE THIS WIDE, ABOUT A FOOT WIDE MAYBE. 
          LIKE IT JUST RIGHT AT THE, UH, LINE OF THE BOTTOM LINE FOR THE, FOR THE CREEK, UH, WAS THE SAND PART OF IT THAT IS NOW ABOUT SIX FOOT. 
          AND THAT IS, THAT IS JUST IN SINCE, UH, SINCE AUGUST. 
          UH, IT WAS NOT CONTINUED OR WHATEVER THE WORD THAT THEY'RE USING, UH, TO MAKE IT WETLANDS BEHIND THAT IN JUNE, UH, OR MAY. 
          SO I, I JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW THIS HAS JUST GOTTEN TO THIS PLACE. 
          NOW THAT WE'VE GOT THIS MUCH DAMAGE BEHIND IT AND, AND HAD BEEN HELD UP, IT, IT WOULD SEEM LIKE, TO ME GOOD COMMON SENSE WOULD'VE, WOULD'VE WARRANTED. 
          UH, JUST TWO OR THREE SHEETS COULD HAVE BEEN PUT IN, IN THAT AREA. 
          IT WAS ONLY LIKE FIVE OR SIX FOOT WIDE. 
          SO SAY THREE SHEETS IN THAT ONE AREA WOULD STOP THIS DEN RIGHT THERE INSTEAD OF ALLOWING IT TO WORK ALONG THE ONE, BECAUSE IT'S NOTHING BEHIND THIS, BUT BEACH SAND SURROUND SAND, IT, IT, YOU CAN'T, YOU COULDN'T COMPACT THAT IF YOU PUT THE EM, EMPIRE STATE BELT ON TOP OF IT. 
          AND SO ANY WATER THAT GOES IN THERE WITH A HOLE IN THERE, EVERY TIME THE TIDE COMES IN, IT TAKES A LITTLE MORE OUT AND A LITTLE MORE OUT. 
          AND, AND THAT'S TWICE A DAY EVERY DAY, 24 7. 
          IT JUST WAS FOOLISH TO LET, TO GET TO THIS POINT. 
          THAT'S MY PERSONAL OPINION. 
          DOESN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH CAMP . 
          THANK YOU, SIR. 
          THANK YOU. 
          AS YOU CAN SEE HERE ON THE WITNESS BOARD CHECKLIST FROM THE IN, UM, BLUE FEE WAGE CHECKLIST, IT CHECKS TWO TO THREE. 
          IT'S COMMERCIAL AND IT'S WITHIN THE COMPOUNDS OF A BULK FIELD. 
          AND I WOULD SAY ONE CAN ARGUE ECONOMICALLY SIGNIFICANT FOR REGION. 
          I, I PERSONALLY WOULD TOO, WHETHER I'VE ALSO AGREED WITH IT ON THAT TOO. 
          BUT I PERSONALLY, I PERSONALLY WOULD TOO. 
          AND I ALSO SEE RESTORING WHAT WAS A PRIOR CONDITION, NOT CREATING SOMETHING NEW. 
          YEP. 
          WETLAND VALUE, LESSER ECONOMIC VALUE MORE. 
          YEP. 
          AND NOT IN OPPOSITION WITH COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. 
          I THINK YOU CAN ARGUE, I THINK FIVE OF THOSE, LET'S SEE SIX, MAYBE SIX OF THOSE. 
          SO WHEN WE, WHEN WE MAKE THE MOTION TO APPROVE IT, I'M GOING TO STRONGLY, UH, MAKE A MOTION THAT WE, UH, UH, FEE WAIVER TO, BUT NOT JUST REDUCE IT, BUT TOTALLY. 
          YOU WAIVER IT. 
          OKAY. 
          WELL, I THINK WHAT THEY HAVE HERE, I, I GUESS YOU CAN DO THAT IF YOU LIKE, BUT IT SAYS IN, IN WAIVER OR REDUCE AND LIKE, GUESS I'M GOING TO, I'M GONNA VOTE FOR, WELL, IT GOES, IT GOES ON THE LAST STAR. 
          IT SAYS 10% FOR EACH CONDITION APPLIES THREE THROUGH EIGHT. 
          SO THAT'S WHY I WAS GETTING AT THAT WOULD BE LIKE A 60%, 1, 2, 3, 4, 
          [00:50:01]
6% REDUCTION. 
          AND, AND, BUT I GUESS, BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, IT'S UNVEGETATED WETLANDS. 
          SO IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT'S TOTALLY UP TO THE WETLANDS BOARD TO TAKE CARE OF. 
          BUT THERE'S JUST GUIDELINES BASICALLY. 
          YEAH. 
          YEAH. 
          MM-HMM . 
          YEAH. 
          OTHER COUNTIES DO NOT REQUIRE NON VEGETATED WELLINS MITIGATION. 
          WELL, SOME, SOME DO. 
          SOME DON'T. 
          SOME DO, SOME DON'T. 
          IT'S UP TO THE COUNTY. 
          ALRIGHT. 
          I CAN MAKE A SUGGESTION. 
          UM, SO THIS IS A TYPE OF WETLANDS THAT WE COMMONLY, UM, REQUIRE PAYMENT, FOR EXAMPLE, IN CAPTAIN'S COVE, UH, HOLDS THROUGH BULKHEAD OF WETLANDS BEHIND IT. 
          I WOULD JUST ASK IF THE BOARD IS CONSIDERING WAIVING, UH, THE, UH, MITIGATION IN THIS CASE. 
          UM, THIS COULD BE DISTINGUISHED AS A CHARITABLE INSTITUTION AS OPPOSED TO A PRIVATE RESIDENCE, AND THEREFORE WOULD NOT RAISE AN ARGUMENT THAT THE BOARD SHOULD DO THIS IN CAPTAIN'S COVE, UNLIKE IT'S BEEN DOING. 
          RIGHT. 
          AND JUST AS YOU POINTED OUT, IF YOU LOOK AT THE AGAINST SIDE, THEY MENTIONED THE AGAINST SIZE, PRIVATE AND OR RESIDENTIAL. 
          SO THAT WOULD BE THE ARGUMENT AS SUCH, BEING CONSISTENT WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO DO. 
          YES. 
          DO WE HAVE ANYBODY ELSE THAT WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK? IF NOT, I WOULD ENTERTAIN THE MOTION. 
          I MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE AS PRESENT. 
          AND I'M, I'M GONNA SAY WAIVE THE MITIGATION FEES FOR, FOR, BECAUSE THE NONPROFIT AND IT HITS, UH, COMMERCIAL WITHIN THE, UH, CONFINES OF BULKHEAD ECONOMIC SIGNIFICANT FOR THE REGION, RESTORING WHAT WAS IN PRIOR CONDITION, UH, WETLAND VALUE OF US WITH AN ECONOMIC VALUE. 
          UH, AND NOT IN AN OPPOSITION WITH A COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. 
          I MEMO THAT, THAT THAT'D BE, UH, NO, NO. 
          UH, PAYMENT FOR THE, AND I WOULD ADD THE POINT IT MADE IS A CHARITABLE CHARITY. 
          YES. 
          CHARITABLE ORGANIZATION. 
          CHARITABLE ORGANIZATION. 
          AND WE'RE DISCUSSING NON VEGETATED WETLANDS HERE. 
          THAT'S THE IMPORTANT PART. 
          SIX SQUARE FEET. 
          YEAH. 
          YEP. 
          I'M SORRY, HOW MANY? SIX WHAT? SIX SQUARE FEET? YES. 
          OKAY. 
          SIX SQUARE FOOT IS, IS, UH, NO, UH, SIX, UH, OF, UH, NON VEGITATIVE WETLANDS. 
          BUT IS THAT WHAT BOARD IS, IS LOOKING TO WAGE THE FEE FOR THAT SIX FEET OF, UH, NON VEGETATIVE WETLANDS. 
          MM-HMM . 
          OKAY. 
          WE'VE GOT A MOTION. 
          DO WE HAVE A SECOND? I WOULD JUST ADD ONE THING IF I COULD. 
          UM, I KNOW THE TERMINOLOGY'S CHANGED A LITTLE BIT, SO WE'RE NOT EXACTLY WAIVING THE FEE. 
          WE'RE WAIVING THE REQUIREMENT THAT THEY PURCHASED THE SIX SQUARE FEET, SIX SQUARE FOOT OF, OF THE MITIGATION FROM THE, UH, VIRGINIA AQUATIC TRUST FUND, WHICH IS THE, THE NEW, THE NEW SOURCE. 
          THAT'S THE REASON WHY WE'RE SUGGESTING THAT IT'S NOT, UH, DOESN'T REQUIRE IT VIRGINIA HAVE TO PURCHASE THE, UH, MITIGATION FROM VIRGINIA AQUATIC TRUST FUND. 
          HANK, IT LOOKS LIKE YOU'RE PONDERING A LITTLE BIT. 
          DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING YOU WANT TO WELL, I'M GONNA SECOND THE MOTION. 
          OKAY. 
          I WAS WAITING FOR YOU TO SECOND . 
          YOU HAD THAT LOOK. 
          I, I'LL SECOND THE MOTION. 
          I JUST WORRY THAT WE, WE MAY BE OPENING UP A PANDORA'S BOX UP IN CAPTAIN'S COVE AND OTHER PLACES. 
          I KNOW WE'RE TRYING TO MANIPULATE IT. 
          YEAH. 
          BUT I DO WORRY, I I, I DON'T THINK IT'S AN ISSUE. 
          'CAUSE WE TALKED ABOUT THE FACT THAT AGAINST IT IS THE FACT THAT IT'S PRIVATE AND OR RESIDENTIAL IN CAPTAIN'S CODE. 
          SO I DON'T SEE THAT IN A, TO ME IT IS PRETTY EASY JUSTIFICATION WHAT YOU JUST DID. 
          YEAH. 
          I CAN'T CRAPS CODE CAN'T CHECK THESE BOXES. 
          AND I, I THINK IT'S, UH, I THINK WE'RE GONNA BE VERY WELL CONSISTENT IN OUR GAME PLAN HERE. 
          I, I BELIEVE. 
          OKAY. 
          YEAH. 
          I'VE SECONDED. 
          OKAY. 
          OKAY. 
          WE HAVE A MOTION. 
          AND SECOND IT. 
          ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SAY AYE. 
          AYE. 
          OPPOSED? AYES HAVE IT. 
          THANK YOU. 
          MM-HMM . 
          OKAY. 
          GOING FORWARD WITH THE NEW BUSINESS, UM, I CAN REPORT VERY QUICKLY ON THE, I BELIEVE YOU PRONOUNCED HER NAME, KAIN VIOLATION. 
          UM, THAT IS IN, UH, THE TOWN OF, IN C**K, IT'S ACTUALLY, UM, RIGHT DOWN THE STREET FROM MR. BIRD'S HOUSE. 
          AND THEY HAD STARTED ON A PROJECT WHERE THEY WERE GONNA ARMOR THEIR BANK AND THEIR BANK IS ABOUT 20 FEET HIGH, OBVIOUSLY AT A PRETTY GOOD SLOPE. 
          AND THEY THOUGHT THEY COULD RIP RAPID FROM BASICALLY AN HANCOCK CREEK UP INTO THE TOP OF THEIR BANK. 
          UM, WE FORTUNATELY CAUGHT THEM VERY QUICKLY, UH, MAYBE THE FIRST OR SECOND DAY OF CONSTRUCTION AND STOPPED THE CONSTRUCTION. 
          UM, UNFORTUNATELY, THEY HAD BEEN GIVEN THE WRONG ADVICE BY THE TOWN OF ONANCOCK. 
          THEY HAD BEEN TOLD THAT RIPPING OUT ALL OF THE VEGETATION ON THE BANK AND INSTALLING THE RIP WRAP ON THE BANK DID NOT QUALIFY AS LAND DISTURBANCE UNDER THE CHESAPEAKE BAY ACT. 
          [00:55:01]
UM, SUBSEQUENTLY, UH, DEQ CAME DOWN FROM RICHMOND TO TAKE A LOOK TO MAKE SURE WE WERE ALL ON THE SAME PAGE. 
          UH, WE QUICKLY ALL GOT ON THE SAME PAGE AND THE CAMONS ARE NO LONGER USING THEIR CONTRACTOR WHO WAS DOING THE ORIGINAL PROJECT. 
          AND THEY HAVE SINCE HIRED ELLEN GRIMES TO, UH, ASSIST THEM IN REMOVING THE RIP WRAP FROM THE, UH, VEGETATED WETLANDS. 
          AND IT WAS A VERY SMALL AREA 'CAUSE THEY WERE WORKING IN STRIPES UP AND DOWN THE BANK, AND THEY HAD ONLY MAYBE GOTTEN SIX TO EIGHT FEET IN, UH, IN, IN, INTO THE, WE, INTO THE VEGETATED WETLANDS. 
          SO MAYBE NO MORE THAN 20 SQUARE FEET. 
          UH, BUT THEY DID REMOVE THE RIP WRAP FROM THE VEGETATED WETLANDS. 
          UH, MS. GRIMES, UH, INFORMED ME A FEW DAYS AGO THAT SHE HAS A FIRST DRAFT OF A LIVING SHORELINE APPLICATION. 
          SHE'S DONE LIVING SHORELINES. 
          WELL, YOU CAN LOOK OFF THE CAMERON'S DOCK AND PROBABLY SEE FIVE OR SIX PROJECTS SHE'S DONE. 
          UM, ALL OF WHOM CALLED US AS SOON AS THIS STARTED BECAUSE THEY WERE WONDERING HOW IN THE WORLD THIS COULD HAVE BEEN PERMITTED. 
          UH, BUT I DO EXPECT THAT I WILL HAVE, OR SHE WILL HAVE FILED A JPA WITHIN THE NEXT TWO WEEKS. 
          UH, NOT ONLY PROPOSING A LIVING SHORELINE, BUT ALSO, UH, RESTORING THE WET, UH, YOU KNOW, AS PART OF THAT PLAN, RESTORING THE WETLANDS THAT WERE AFFECTED IN THIS CASE. 
          SO THAT HAS NO ACTION NECESSARY RIGHT NOW, UH, THAT I, I AM NOT SUGGESTING ANY ACTION BECAUSE I'M CONFIDENT THAT THEY WILL GO FORWARD WITH WHAT THEY'VE PROPOSED. 
          AND UNFORTUNATELY, THEY HAD CONSULTED ACK COUNTY. 
          WE HAD SHOWN THEM WHERE THE WETLANDS WERE AT THE VERY START OF THE PROCESS. 
          MAYBE A FEW MONTHS LATER, THEY CONTACTED THE TOWN OF AN HANCOCK ABOUT THE CHESAPEAKE BAY ACT. 
          AND THEN THEY THOUGHT THEY HAD A CONTRACTOR WHO WAS FAMILIAR WITH ALL THESE RULES, AND THEY WERE LEGITIMATELY SHOCKED WHEN MS. GORMAN AND I SHOWED UP AND OBVIOUSLY TOLD THEM THAT NONE OF THIS WAS ALLOWABLE AND THEY HAD JUST BOUGHT THE HOUSE. 
          THEY MOVED FROM UPSTATE NEW YORK. 
          THIS IS A COMMON PRACTICE UP THERE ALONG THE ATLANTIC SHORELINE TO ARMOR YOUR BANK LIKE THIS. 
          SO THEY WERE COMPLETELY CAUGHT OFF GUARD AND HAD REALLY DONE DUE DILIGENCE IN TRYING TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY WERE FOLLOWING ALL THE RULES. 
          UM, AND UNFORTUNATELY JUST A VERY BAD SERIES OF, UH, DECISIONS AND ADVICE THAT, UH, THAT LED TO THIS OKAY. 
          DO THEY, UH, THING I ASKED BEFORE, DO THEY HAVE TO REMOVE ANY OF THIS MATERIAL OR IS THEY JUST, THEY JUST HAVE TO MOVE SOME OF IT OUT TO DO IT CORRECTLY? RIGHT. 
          THEY HAD ONLY, UM, SO THEY HAD ABOUT A SIX TO EIGHT FOOT WIDE SECTION OF RIP WRAP FROM THE TOP OF THE BANK DOWN INTO THE WETLANDS. 
          AND THEY WERE ABLE TO REMOVE THE RIP WRAP FROM THE WETLANDS AND ANY RIP WRAP THAT WAS BEING SUPPORTED BY THAT. 
          SO, AND, AND THEY DID THAT RATHER QUICKLY AND THEY HAD THE REMAINING OF THE RIP WRAP IS STILL SITTING IN THEIR YARD WAITING TO BE USED NOW FOR A LIVING SHORELINE OFFSHORE REVETMENT PROJECT AS OPPOSED TO WHAT THEY ORIGINALLY HAD PLANNED. 
          OKAY. 
          AND WE'LL SEE THAT JPA MAYBE NEXT MONTH OR JANUARY. 
          UM, I DID TELL MS. GRIMES THAT, UH, YOU KNOW, IT'S BEEN A PROCESS SINCE I FIRST WENT OUT THERE, BUT IT'S ALSO BEEN SEVERAL MONTHS. 
          SO I, I GUESS YOU COULD SAY, KIND OF, UH, SUGGESTED THAT I HA HAVE IT IN HAND BEFORE THE NEXT MEETING. 
          VERY GOOD, THANK YOU. 
          OKAY. 
          AND, UH, FINALLY WE HAVE THE CAPTAIN'S CODE VIOLATION. 
          UM, UH, THIS, UH, AGAIN, WAS, I'M NOT SURE IF I, MAYBE INNOCENT IS TOO STRONG OF A WORD, BUT I CAN TELL YOU THAT MS. GORMAN AND I WERE PLANNING TO GO UP THERE TO LOOK AT THE, UH, EROSION AT, AT THIS LOCATION ON A WEDNESDAY. 
          I, I, I THINK ON MONDAY WE HAD SCHEDULED TO GO THERE ON A WEDNESDAY TO TAKE A LOOK AT IT TO SEE WHAT COULD BE DONE. 
          AND THEN ON, I BELIEVE TU A TUESDAY AFTERNOON, I GOT AN EMAIL WITH PICTURES OF THE CONCRETE THAT HAD BEEN DUMPED ON TOP OF THE MARSH, UH, THAT WAS, UH, PUT THERE BY MAINTENANCE STAFF TO PROTECT, UH, THE ROAD THAT, AND MAYBE SOME UTILITIES UNDER THE ROAD OR BY THE ROAD. 
          UM, AND THEY CONTACTED ME, I BELIEVE, WITHIN HOURS OF THIS HAVING BEEN DONE. 
          I MEAN, THEY REALIZED THIS WAS A MISTAKE AND THAT THE PERSON SHOULD NOT HAVE DONE THIS. 
          UH, BUT I HAVE, UH, RECEIVED A, UH, I GUESS A DRAFT PLAN THAT I'VE PROVIDED TO YOU, UH, SHOWING A LIVING A VERY SIMILAR TO THE CAMON SITUATION OF THAT WOULD NOT ONLY PROVIDE FOR A LIVING SHORELINE THERE, BUT ALSO RESTORE THE MARSH THAT HAS BEEN OBVIOUSLY BADLY AFFECTED BY THE DUMPING OF THE CONCRETE ON TOP OF IT. 
          SO THAT IN IS IN WORKS OF BEING TAKEN CARE OF, THAT IS IN WORK TAKE. 
          AND, AND I'VE SPOKEN TO CAPTAIN SKOVE SEVERAL TIMES ABOUT THIS. 
          ONE OF ONE 
          [01:00:01]
LITTLE CURVE BALL THERE IS THAT CAPTAIN'S COVE DOES NOT OWN ALL OF THESE LOTS, BUT ONE OF THE OWNERS IS, I BELIEVE IT'S CCG NOTE, WHICH I BELIEVE IS THE, I'VE CONTACTED CAPTAIN COVE ABOUT THIS. 
          AND THAT OWNER IS ALSO THE DEVELOPER OR AT SOME PART YEAH, CAPTAIN'S COVE. 
          SO THEY, IT, THAT OWNER IS AWARE OF THE SITUATION AND THE PROJECT THAT'S BEING PROPOSED THROUGH THESE DRAFT DOCUMENTS WOULD HAVE THEIR COOPERATION. 
          AND, YOU KNOW, MY EMAIL, I WANT TO SEE SOME SORT OF WRITTEN AFFIRMATION THAT EVERYBODY'S AWARE WHAT'S GOING ON AND MAKE SURE WE HAVE THAT DOCUMENTATION. 
          I DO NOT THINK I PRINTED IT OUT, BUT I CAN TELL YOU THAT I DID EMAIL, UH, KOLBY AND SHE RESPONDED THAT THEY ARE AWARE. 
          OKAY. 
          SO I I I, I, I DO HAVE AN EMAIL FROM YOU. 
          OKAY. 
          I WOULD LIKE TO PROBABLY LIKE TO SEE THAT TO MAKE SURE EVERYBODY'S ON THE SAME PAGE ON THIS. 
          I DO WANT TO SAY ONE THING BEFORE YOU GET UP IS THAT THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOU AND CLAIRE FOR OPERATING SO QUICKLY ON THIS. 
          I APPRECIATE YOUR GUYS WERE UP THERE RIGHT AWAY, AND THANK YOU FOR DOING THAT. 
          IT, IT WAS A GOOD, GOOD COINCIDENCE TOO THAT YOU  WELL, I, I, I GOT A, I GOT A QUESTION TOO, AND, UM, DON'T THINK THAT I'M NOT, UM, FEELING CONIC PAIN. 
          UM, THERE WASN'T A SNOWBALLS CHANCE IN THE BAD LAND THAT WE WEREN'T GONNA PASS, THAT WE JUST PASSED. 
          UM, UM, AND YEAH, I GET IF YOU ALLOW 'EM TO PATCH WHEN IT'S WHAT'S THERE, YOU TECHNICALLY LOSE THE NO LONGER CONTINUOUS TO THE, TO THE, UH, BMR C'S WATERS. 
          HOWEVER, WHEN YOU DON'T DO SOMETHING RIGHT AWAY, THAT'S IN ANYTHING, ESPECIALLY ON THE EASTERN SHORE, OUR TIDES ARE, STORMS ARE HORRIBLE. 
          YOU CAN WATCH THINGS HAPPEN. 
          AND LIKE I SAID, YOU, YOU YOURSELF KNOW FROM THAT AUGUST TO NOW, HOW MUCH MORE HAS ERODED JUST WITH THAT LITTLE HOLE. 
          YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT I'M SAYING? YOU'VE SEEN IT YOUR OWN SELF. 
          SO WHAT I'M SAYING IS WE GOTTA FIND A HAPPY MEDIUM WHEN WE KNOW THAT THIS IS GOING TO BE APPROVED AND THAT TECHNICALLY ABOUT WEREN'T ABOUT THAT PART ABOUT. 
          AND YES, I WOULD USE THAT TECHNICALLY MYSELF WHEN YOU, WHEN YOU CO COVER THAT WHOLE, WELL, YOU'RE NO LONGER TECHNICALLY JOINED AND YEAH, BUT AGAIN, THINK ABOUT THE MITIGATION. 
          JUST SAY, LET'S USE SIMPLE TERMS, $30 A SQUARE FOOT TIMES SIX, THAT'S $180. 
          YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT I'M SAYING? THERE'S GOT, THERE'S GOT TO BE SOME, UH, SO THAT IT MAKES SENSE TO PEOPLE BECAUSE THEY'RE HERE. 
          THERE'S PEOPLE, EVERYBODY EXCEPT FOR NORMA DIDN'T HAVE TO BE HERE. 
          THE OTHER PEOPLE WERE HERE BECAUSE WHAT HAPPENED DIDN'T MAKE SENSE TO 'EM. 
          UM, I GUESS I CAN SAY I, I DON'T SPECIFICALLY, I MEAN, I SPECIFICALLY RECALL ABOUT THE EMERGENCY REPAIR, THEM DOING THE WHOLE PROJECT BEFORE GETTING A JPA AND HOW IT DIDN'T QUALIFY UNDER THE STATUTE. 
          WE EXPLAINED THAT TO 'EM. 
          UM, I, I DON'T SPECIFICALLY RECALL DISCUSSIONS ABOUT A PATCH. 
          I'M NOT, I, I, WE PROBABLY DID HAVE 'EM, BUT I CAN TELL YOU THAT THIS IS THE SECOND VISIT I MADE, WHICH I THINK WAS ABOUT A WEEK AND A HALF AGO. 
          AND IT DOES APPEAR AS IF THEY DID PATCH. 
          UM, I, IT THEY, I MEAN IT LOOKS LIKE THE ONE DID POP OFF WHERE IT HAD SOME ROTTEN WOOD. 
          NO. 
          IF YOU LOOK NOW, THERE'S A LOT. 
          DON'T THINK I'M, DON'T THINK I'M BEING FAN. 
          IF YOU LOOK ALL THE WAY DOWN, THERE'S A LOT OF THEM . 
          YEAH. 
          SO I'M SAYING THIS, THIS ISN'T DAY ONE. 
          I MEAN, THIS, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT YOU WOULD NORMALLY DO WHEN YOU SEE IT. 
          I, I AND, AND THIS, LIKE I SAID, I DON'T THINK ALL THOSE PA LIKE I SAID, THERE'S TONS AND THAT'S NOT DONE IN THE LAST, THERE'S ONE FRESH ONE, BUT THE OTHER ONES AREN'T. 
          YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? I GUESS THAT ONE RIGHT THERE, UH, IN THE, TO THE LEFT LOOKS LIKE A FRESH, THE LEFT. 
          THAT'S, THAT'S FRESH. 
          BUT YOU CAN TELL WHICH ONES ARE FRESH OR NOT. 
          I, AND I'VE GOT A QUESTION FOR MS KIRSTEN TOO. 
          WELL, UM, THE BULKHEAD ITSELF, WELL THE WATER HITS THE BULKHEAD, THE BULKHEAD CHANNEL IS THAT VMR C'S, UM, JURISDICTION, UM, VM C'S JURISDICTION STARTS AT MIMO WATER. 
          SO THAT'S DEPENDENT ON WHERE MEANWHILE WATER SITS EITHER ALONG THE BULK OR WITHIN. 
          IT'S HARD TO SAY, YOU KNOW, WITHOUT SEEING DRAWINGS HANKS, WHEN IS THAT THE CASE? THE BALCONY, THE BULK ITSELF? IS THAT VMR CS JURISDICTION? IT ALL DEPENDS, JUST LIKE SHE SAID, WHERE LOW WATER IS. 
          MM-HMM . 
          ON ON, IF IF, IF IT'S ALWAYS HITTING, IF IT'S ALWAYS HITTING THE BULKHEAD, WE WOULD CONSIDER THE BULKHEAD OR THIS PROJECT IN THEORY, UM, COULD BE WITHIN VM C'S JURISDICTION. 
          BUT SINCE TALKING HYPOTHETICAL RIGHT, YOU CAN ONLY DEAL WITH THE PROJECT YOU HAVE BEFORE. 
          NO, I'M, YEAH, BUT I'M TALKING ABOUT IF BORDERS ALWAYS HITTING THE BULKHEAD. 
          YES. 
          EVEN THE TYPE, THE BULKHEAD ITSELF, THE OUT THE CHANNEL WORK PART OF THE BULKHEAD. 
          IS THAT THE UM, BMR C'S JURISDICTION? SURE. 
          THAT'S A GOOD, LIKE I SAY, SO I MEAN TECHNICALLY IF I GET A LETTER FROM THE BMRC, SAY MY PROJECT IS, AND I CAN GO ON THE OUTSIDE OF THAT BULKHEAD AND PUT MY PATCH. 
          AM I RIGHT OR WRONG? SO YOU WANT TO GO ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE BULK? NO, 
          [01:05:01]
I'M TALKING ABOUT JUST THIS. 
          I SAID HYPOTHETICAL. 
          THIS IS HYPOTHETICAL. 
          THIS, THIS ISN'T, WE, WE ARE DONE AND WE'VE DONE ALL WE COULD DO FOR THESE PEOPLE. 
          YEAH. 
          THIS, BUT I'M TALKING ABOUT HYPOTHETICAL. 
          I'M NOT GOING TO SPEAK ON HYPOTHETICAL PROJECT. 
          NO, NO. 
          THAT'S, THAT'S, BUT THAT'S THE REAL WORLD. 
          IF THE, IF THE OUTSIDE, WELL THAT CAN BE ADDRESSED AFTER THE MEETING MEETING. 
          WE DON'T NEED TO BE TALKING ABOUT THIS DURING THE MEETING. 
          OKAY. 
          ALRIGHT. 
          ALRIGHT. 
          YEAH. 
          BUT YOU KNOW, I'M BORN. 
          OKAY. 
          UM, WE DO HAVE A REPRESENTATIVE CAPTAIN STANDARD STATE YOUR NAME. 
          DO YOU SWEAR OR TELL THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH, SO HELP YOU GOD? I DO. 
          UH, CHRIS MCCABE COASTAL COMPLIANCE SOLUTIONS. 
          I DO THE WATERFRONT CONSULTING FOR CAPTAIN'S COVE. 
          SO, UM, I JUST WANTED TO SPEAK ON BEHALF OF THE CAPTAIN'S COVE, UH, VIOLATION AND PROJECT. 
          UM, IT WAS BROUGHT TO MY ATTENTION, UH, FRESHLY  WITHIN IT BEING DONE AS WELL. 
          I WAS TO VISIT THE SITE TO LOOK AT, UM, SOME NONATA WETLAND WORK WE'RE DOING IN SECTION THREE. 
          AND UM, UH, KOLBY AND MARK AND JIMMY, THE FELLOW WHO PERFORMED THE WORK, THE MAINTENANCE STAFF, ASKED ME TO GO TAKE A LOOK AT IT AND THAT'S WHEN THE RED FLAGS WENT OFF. 
          AND THAT'S WHEN I ADVISED THEM THAT WE NEEDED TO NOTIFY THE AGENCIES OF THE EMERGENCY FIX THAT WAS THERE, THE REPAIR, AND THEN GENERATE ACTUAL LONG-TERM DRAWINGS THAT WILL SOLVE THE PROBLEM. 
          SO THAT'S WHAT YOU SEE IN YOUR PACKET. 
          UM, THOSE ARE CONCEPTUAL DRAFT PLANS PRETTY CLOSE TO WHAT WE'LL SUBMIT FOR THE JPA, BUT WE'RE GONNA TIGHTEN THOSE UP AND HOPEFULLY GET THOSE SUBMITTED. 
          THE JPA FILED BEFORE, UH, THURSDAY OF NEXT WEEK. 
          SO THAT'S WHERE WE ARE WITH IT. 
          UM, ON BEHALF OF THE FOLKS THERE, APOLOGIZE THAT WE'RE IN THIS SITUATION, BUT, UM, YOU KNOW, THE MAINTENANCE STAFF SAW THE ROAD UNDER THAT BIG STORM IN OCTOBER, UH, WITH THE SEWER AND WATER LINE AND UTILITIES THERE AND GOT A LITTLE OVER ZALO AND WANTED TO SAVE THE ROAD. 
          I DO KNOW AND CAN ATTEST, UH, THAT THE OWNERS OF A FEW OF THOSE LOTS, SO MOST OF THOSE ARE OUT INTO THE COMMONWEALTH JURISDICTION BELOW MELO WATER HAVE BEEN NOTIFIED. 
          AND THEY ARE, UH, SOME ARE MEMBERS OF THE, UM, MORTAR DIRECTORS AT CAPTAINS COVE. 
          SO THEY'RE AWARE, UM, AND THEY WILL BE CO-APPLICANT ON THE APPLICATION WHERE WE DO FIND THAT THEY STILL HAVE UPLANDS, UM, AREA THAT IS OUTSIDE OF, UH, MEAN LOW WATER OUTSIDE THE JURISDICTION. 
          AND ALSO TOO, JUST FOR THE RECORD, IT'S A LOT OF NON VEGETATED WETLANDS THAT WERE IMPACTED AS PART OF THIS PROCESS. 
          THERE WERE SOME VEGETATED WETLANDS, BUT IT WAS REALLY AN ESCARPMENT. 
          BASICALLY THE EROSION HAD CUT AWAY, SO YOU HAVE THE, UH, TARN SHIP ROAD AND THEN IT WAS SORT OF CUT OUT UNDER IT. 
          SO A LOT OF THOSE WETLANDS, UNFORTUNATELY, HAVE BEEN LOST OVER THE YEARS. 
          UM, AND IT WAS A RESULT OF THE FAILURE OF THE AVIAN BASKETS THAT WERE THERE. 
          UM, OVER THE YEARS, WHICH THEY'RE OUT THERE, THEY'RE DERELICT AND SOMETHING REALLY NEEDS TO BE DONE WITH ALL THOSE, BUT THEY'VE BEEN KIND OF OUTTA SIGHT OUTTA MIND. 
          SO THAT'S THE GENESIS OF THIS ISSUE AND WE'RE WORKING REAL HARD TO GET IT FIXED. 
          ACTUALLY, I HAVE A QUESTION FOR MR. WATSON. 
          AND, AND JUST IN CURIOSITY, BECAUSE YOU KNOW, WE HAD AN ISSUE WITH CAPTAIN COVE ONCE, WHERE ACTUALLY IT WAS NOT IN THE WETLANDS BOARD SITUATION BECAUSE ONE COULD CONSIDER THAT AREA WHERE THEY PUT THE RIP WRAP OR CRAP WRAP, MORE OF A BEACH TYPE AREA. 
          IS THIS REALLY SOMETHING, I MEAN, IS THAT SOMETHING THAT SOMEONE HAS LOOKED AT IN THAT REGARD? BECAUSE I REMEMBER ONE TIME WE HAD ONE CAPTAIN'S COVE WAS OUTSIDE WETLANDS BOARD JURISDICTION BECAUSE IT WAS MORE SAND BEACH ALONG THE BAY. 
          SO IS THAT A CONSIDER, DID SOMEONE THINK ABOUT THAT? MAYBE? UM, I THINK WHEN WE WERE OUT THERE, THERE WAS SO MUCH CONCRETE ON THE AFFECTED AREA THAT THAT DID NOT COME UP BECAUSE WE COULDN'T SEE. 
          OKAY. 
          JUST, JUST, BUT I DO KNOW UNLIKE NORTH HAMPTON WITH WHERE THERE'S A, UH, WETLANDS AND BEACH COMBINED BOARD HERE, THE BEACH WOULD GO TO VMRC AS OPPOSED TO THE LOCAL WETLAND. 
          SO I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE THAT CONSIDERATION WHO ACTUALLY GETS THIS? BECAUSE IT, YOU KNOW, 'CAUSE IT'S, IT'S SORT OF IN BETWEEN THERE IN REGARDS TO WHAT THE SITUATION IS. 
          I UNDERSTAND. 
          WELL, YEAH, WE'LL, WE'LL NEED TO TAKE A CLOSE LOOK AT THAT. 
          OKAY. 
          IT IS IN THE WETLANDS, BUT A DECENT CHUNK OF THAT WILL BE IN THE JURISDICTION. 
          IT'S WELL WITHIN THE ONE AND A HALF RANGE. 
          SO, UM, THERE'S REALLY NO BEACH THERE. 
          IT BASED ON THE, BASED ON THE VERTICAL DATA, YOU KNOW, BASED ON THE SURVEYORS, WE ACTUALLY SURVEY IT, YOU KNOW, WE DO A, WE DO A SURVEY ON THE APPLICATION, SO WE KNOW WHERE, YOU KNOW, MEAN HIGH MEAN LOW, MEAN HIGH, HIGH, AND THEN WETLANDS BOARD JURISDICTION IS, SO THERE IS A SECTION IN THERE THAT WILL BE OUT. 
          UM, BUT THE MAR MAJORITY OF IT'LL BE IN AND SOME WILL BE, UM, WITHIN THE COMMONWEALTH, WITHIN BMRC. 
          CHRIS, IF Y'ALL WAS TALKING ABOUT THE SURVEY, WHEN YOU'RE DOING ONE AND A HALF TIMES NOW, WHAT ARE YOU FINDING? WHAT, WHAT I REMEMBER FROM YEARS AGO, I WAS FINDING THAT SOME OF THE, MOST OF THE PATENTS WERE OUTSIDE THE WETLAND SPORTS JURISDICTION. 
          I WOULD SAY IT'S 50 50. 
          OKAY. 
          YEAH. 
          UM, 
          [01:10:02]
THE ALTERNATIVE FLORA IS DEFINITELY MIGRATING LANDLORD SIGNIFICANTLY. 
          UM, ESPECIALLY THERE IN, IN THE SEASIDE ESPECIALLY, YOU KNOW, NORTH OF THE INLET, UM, CLOSER TO THE LINE. 
          IT'S REALLY INTERESTING. 
          AND THE, THEN THE THREE VIGORS OF ALTERNATIVE FLOOR COME IN. 
          SO YOU SEE THE LOW, MEDIUM, AND HIGH. 
          AND THAT'S CHANGING, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE GETTING A LOT MORE LOW UP TO WHERE THE PEYTON'S LINE IS VERSUS THE HIGH OUT CLOSER TO THE YEAH. 
          MORE INUNDATION. 
          BUT YEAH, THE TIDE RANGE IN GENERAL THERE IS, IS WHAT'S CONFUSING EVERYBODY. 
          IT'S VERY CONFUSING. 
          IT'S 'CAUSE IT'S ONLY LIKE EIGHT TENTHS, NINE, NINE TENTHS WITH THIS, IT, WHATEVER'S HAPPENING, CLIMATE CHANGE, SEALABLE RISE, WHATEVER WE'RE GONNA CALL IT, IT, THE TIDE RANGE THERE HAS GOTTEN LARGER. 
          YES. 
          THAT'S WHAT I WAS THINKING OVER THE YEARS. 
          MM-HMM . 
          YEAH. 
          AND, AND THAT, THAT'S TRUE TOO. 
          AS YOU MIGRATE NORTH INTO WORCESTER COUNTY, BOTH SIDES ON THE, YOU KNOW, COASTAL BASE. 
          SEASIDE, NORTH SEASIDE. 
          OKAY. 
          THANK, THANK YOU. 
          UH, MR. CHAIR, I'M NOT SURE SOMEONE WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK, UH, FOR ON THIS VIOLATION. 
          THAT'S POSSIBLE. 
          THEY CAN DO THAT. 
          IS THAT OKAY? YEAH, PLEASE. 
          I'M SORRY I DIDN'T SIGN UP TO SPEAK, BUT I, I COULDN'T HELP, UM, MYSELF IN THE BACK. 
          MY NAME'S THERESA. 
          OH, GO AHEAD. 
          MY NAME'S THERESA BIRKHEAD AND I LIVE IN CAPTAIN'S COVE. 
          DO YOU SWEAR TO TELL THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH? YES SIR. 
          I DO. 
          YES SIR, I DO. 
          UM, I'VE LIVED IN CAPTAIN'S COVE. 
          I'VE OWNED A LOT THERE SINCE 2014. 
          UM, I RETIRED FROM THE STATE OF VIRGINIA. 
          I WORKED FOR FIVE DIFFERENT STATE AGENCIES. 
          YOU PROBABLY HAVE HEARD MY LAST NAME. 
          BIRKHEAD ANDAL SUING THE DEVELOPER. 
          UM, THIS HAS BEEN VERY FRUSTRATING FOR MOST OF US IN CAPTAIN'S COVE. 
          WHEN CHRIS MCCABE SAYS CAPTAIN'S COVE, UM, HE'S NOT SPEAKING FOR ALL OF US. 
          HE'S SPEAKING FOR THE DEVELOPER AND THE, UM, BOARD OF DIRECTORS THAT ARE, UH, VOTED IN BY THE DEVELOPER. 
          MOST OF THOSE LOTS DOWN THERE ARE NOT NALA. 
          AND EVERY AREA WHERE WE UM, DON'T REQUIRE THE OWNERS TO PUT A BULKHEAD ARE, UM, ARE THERE BECAUSE MOSTLY IT WAS OWNED BY THE DEVELOPER. 
          NEVER SPENT ANY OF HIS MONEY TO BULKHEAD THOSE LOTS, THEN SWAPPED OUT LOTS THAT WE OWNED THAT WERE INWARD AND TOOK OUR BUILDABLE LOTS AND GAVE US THOSE, UM, LOTS THAT ARE ERODING. 
          IT IS SO SAD. 
          I'M ALSO A CLASS AGENT ON A CONTRACTOR. 
          I'VE BEEN BUILDING HOUSES IN THE STATE OF VIRGINIA SINCE IN THE EIGHTIES. 
          I'M ONE OF THESE WOMEN THAT I THINK I COULD HAVE DONE IT ALL. 
          I I DID IT ALL. 
          UM, IT HURTS US IN CAPTAIN'S COVE TO WALK DOWN IN THOSE AREAS AND SEE THAT LAND ERODING. 
          WE ALL ARE REQUIRED. 
          AND I DO LIVE ON THE WATER. 
          I HAVE A NICE BULKHEAD AND, UM, MR. GET IT WILL PROBABLY TELL YOU I HAVE A VERY NICE HOUSE. 
          I KEEP MY THINGS VERY NICELY. 
          YOU MAY NOT HAVE A LOT, BUT IF YOU KEEP IT UP, THAT'S, THAT'S THE RICH LIFE. 
          BUT THIS DEVELOPER HAS ALL OF THIS POWER AND ALL OF THIS LAND AND WE DID NOT MAKE THE DECISION OF CAPTAIN'S COVE TO GO DUMP OUR CRAP WRAP FROM THE POOL AREA. 
          'CAUSE THEY DUG IT OUT. 
          THEY, THEY TOOK A, AT THE TOWN GRILL, DUG UP THAT CONCRETE, PUT IT ON TRUCKS. 
          I WAS IN THE OUTER BANKS AT THE TIME, AND I AM THE PRESIDENT OF THE CONCERN CITIZENS OF CAPTAIN'S COVE. 
          I RECEIVED 81 TELEPHONE CALLS THAT FIRST DAY THAT THEY STARTED THOSE TRUCKS DUMPING THAT CRAP DOWN THERE OFF OF NAUTILUS. 
          OUR MONEY WENT TO BUILD THOSE ROADS, NOT THE DEVELOPER, LIKE MOST DEVELOPERS DO IN VIRGINIA BECAUSE THE COUNTY HAS THE SUBDIVISION ORDINANCE THAT EXEMPTS ALL OF THE SUBDIVISIONS THAT WERE RECORDED BEFORE. 
          I BELIEVE IT'S MAY OF 1973 FROM THE WHOLE ENTIRE SUBDIVISION ORDINANCE. 
          AND PART OF THAT ORDINANCE IS TO MAKE SURE THE DEVELOPERS RESPONSIBLE OF DEVELOPING WELL, THEY TAKE THAT AS THEY'RE EXEMPT FROM EVERYTHING. 
          I MEAN, THEY ARE, THEY'RE EXEMPT FROM EVERYTHING IN THAT ORDINANCE. 
          AND IT SHOULD JUST BE LOT SIZES, SETBACKS, THOSE TYPES OF THINGS THAT WERE GRANTED PER CAPTAIN'S COVE BECAUSE THEY'RE EXEMPT AND THEY HAVE THAT POWER. 
          THEY CAN MAKE ALL THE DECISIONS FOR CAPTAIN'S COVE. 
          SO THOSE LOTS DOWN THERE ON NAUTILUS ARE THE DEVELOPER'S LOTS. 
          AND THERE MAY BE ONE OR TWO OF OUR LOTS THAT WE GOT BECAUSE OF A FORECLOSURE OF, OR OF THEM SWAPPING LOTS OUT WITH US. 
          SO NOW IF THERE'S GONNA BE A FINE OR THERE'S GONNA HAVE TO BE ANY WORK DONE, GUESS WHO'S GONNA PAY FOR IT? THOSE OF US WHO LIVE IN CAPTAIN'S COVE AND PAY DUES, THE DEVELOPER DOESN'T PAY ANY DUES AND HE DOESN'T USE HIS MONEY TO BUILD ROADS OR EXTEND OUT THE UTILITIES. 
          WE ARE SICK OF IT. 
          SO IF WHATEVER YOU DO, JUST KNOW THAT WE ARE THE ONES THAT STARTED CALLING AND LETTING YOU GUYS KNOW THAT THIS IS GOING ON BECAUSE WE'RE TIRED OF IT. 
          THANK YOU. 
          [01:15:01]
DOES ANYBODY ELSE HAVE ANYTHING THEY'D LIKE TO SAY? WELL, JUST TO FOLLOW UP ON THIS, IT'S ALWAYS, LIKE I WAS TALKING TO THE COUNTY ATTORNEY THIS MORNING. 
          IT'S INTERESTING THAT IT DOESN'T, THE FINES AND THE RESPONSIBILITY DOESN'T NECESSARILY GO TO PEOPLE WHO DO THE ACT. 
          IT'S ACTUALLY GOES TO THE PROPERTY OWNERS WHERE THE ACT HAS OCCURRED. 
          SO I DON'T KNOW. 
          I MEAN, I'M NOT, I HAVE NO POSITION OF AUTHORITY, RESPONSIBILITY IN CAPTAIN SCOPE OF GOLF YACHT CLUB INC. 
          BUT I JUST JUST WANNA MAKE SURE WHAT'S GOING ON HERE IN TERMS OF PAYMENT AND WHO'S DOING WHAT, WHO'S, WHO IS ACTUALLY RESPONSIBLE FOR DOING THIS IN TERMS OF DOING THIS REPAIR. 
          AND I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING THAT'S CRITICAL FOR THE PEOPLE WHO SIGN ON TO THE JPA, WHAT THEY'RE GONNA BE RESPONSIBLE FOR. 
          SO WHEN WE GET THAT, THAT'S SOMETHING WE MIGHT WANNA TAKE A LOOK AT. 
          ALTHOUGH IN REGARDS TO THE WETLANDS BOARD, THAT'S REALLY NOT OUR CONCERN I HAVE TO SAY. 
          BUT IT'S SOMETHING THAT I THINK, UH, MS. BIRKHEAD WOULD LIKE US TO TAKE A LOOK AT THAT WE CAN TALK AFTER THE MEETING. 
          OKAY. 
          OKAY. 
          ANYBODY ELSE HAVE ANYTHING? UM, NOT ON THIS SUBJECT, BUT JUST A FEW THINGS. 
          ALRIGHT. 
          UM, I, I DID, UH, PROVIDE YOU WITH A SCHEDULE FOR 2026, UH, THAT MIRRORS EXACTLY WHAT WE DID IN 2000, OR WE ARE DOING IN 2025, UM, STILL AT THE JULY MEETING A LITTLE EARLIER TO ACCOMMODATE, UH, FOR PONY PENDING AND JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT SCHEDULE LOOKS ACCEPTABLE. 
          ALRIGHT. 
          AND BY HAVING A COMMENT ON THAT, AND AS I'VE STATED TO PAUL EARLIER, I WILL NOT BE AT THE DECEMBER MEETING. 
          OKAY. 
          AND I'VE A, I'VE ADVISED MR. ASH. 
          OKAY, GREAT. 
          THANK YOU. 
          UM, A RELATED ISSUE IS MR. MONTGOMERY, UH, STOPPED BY THE OFFICE A FEW DAYS AGO AND HE IS NOT ABLE TO CONTINUE AS AN ALTERNATE. 
          HE'S GOT SOME FAMILY OBLIGATIONS OVER THE NEXT COUPLE YEARS AND HE WOULD LIKE TO BE CONSIDERED IN THE FUTURE. 
          I'M NOT SURE IF WE NEED TWO ALTERNATES. 
          UM, I GUESS IT'S UP TO THE BOARD ULTIMATELY, BUT WANTED TO SEE IF THIS BOARD HAD ANY RECOMMENDATION ONE WAY OR THE OTHER TO THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS, WHETHER A SECOND ALTERNATE SHOULD BE APPOINTED. 
          WELL, HE'S GOOD AND HE COMES WHEN YOU ASK HIM. 
          SO MY MOTHER IS 101 IN NORTH CAROLINA, SO I DO HAVE TO GO BACK AND FORTH ON A LOT. 
          SO IT IS POSSIBLE THERE MIGHT BE A MEETING, THANK, WELL, THIS BOARD CAN STILL ACT WITH, UH, THREE MEMBERS, UH, WITH LESS THAN FIVE. 
          AS LONG AS THE DECISION IS MADE. 
          IT'S, IT HAS TO BE UNANIMOUS UNDER THOSE CIRCUMSTANCES. 
          BUT YEAH, WE CAN ACT. 
          IS IT, UH, WRITTEN DOWN SOMEWHERE HOW MANY BOARD MEMBERS AND ALTERNATES THAT WE WERE REQUIRED TO HAVE? OR WAS THAT JUST UP TO OUR DISCRETION? I'M NOT SURE. 
          I THINK IT'S, WELL, I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS WOULD PROBABLY DO WHATEVER THIS BOARD WANTS, BUT I THINK IT'S ULTIMATELY UP TO THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS, HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE APPOINTED. 
          BUT, UH, I DO NOT THINK THERE'S ANY REQUIREMENT FOR ALTERNATES. 
          I DO NOT BELIEVE, WHEN I WAS IN NORTHAMPTON COUNTY, WE HAD, WELL, I KNOW WE DIDN'T HAVE ANY ALTERNATES BECAUSE WE HAD SEVERAL MEETINGS WHERE ONLY THREE PEOPLE SHOWED UP AND, UH, WE DIDN'T HAVE ANY ALTERNATES. 
          SO, BUT WHAT YOU JUST HEARD, WE NEED ANOTHER ALTERNATE. 
          ALTERNATE. 
          YES. 
          I I YOU JUST HEARD YEAH. 
          SO THAT, THAT, THAT, THAT WAS ANSWERED TO THAT QUESTION. 
          OKAY. 
          I SIRLY UNDERSTAND. 
          AND THAT GOES THROUGH THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS, CORRECT? YES. 
          YES. 
          TO, TO MAKE THAT DECISION. 
          YES. 
          UM, AND THAT'S ALL I HAVE. 
          THANK YOU SO MUCH. 
          ANYBODY ELSE HAVE ANYTHING NOT ON, NOT ON TAPE, UH, JUST BRIEFLY JUST, I WAS AT THE NATURE CONSERVANCY OPEN HOUSE AND JUST WANNA SAY THEY DID A FAN. 
          THEY'RE DOING A FANTASTIC JOB DOWN THERE. 
          THAT MARSH ISLAND AND PUTTING IN OYSTER CASTLES IS QUITE REMARKABLE. 
          WE ACTUALLY TOOK A LITTLE BOAT RIDE OUT THERE AND, UH, I WAS SAYING THAT THE, UH, BEACH CONSERVANCY IS A FINE JOB IN TERMS OF, UH, MAINTAINING THE WETLANDS DOWN THE  AREA. 
          VERY IMPRESSIVE TO SAY. 
          AND THAT'S IT FOR ME. 
          ANYBODY ELSE? IF NOT, I'LL TAKE A MOTION TO ADJOURN. 
          MOTION TO ADJOURN. 
          SECOND. 
          ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SAY AYE. 
          A OPPOSED? NO, THE AYES HAVE IT. 
          I, GEORGE YOU DID VERY GOOD. 
          OKAY. 
          YEAH. 
          AND, UH, YOU, I WOULDN'T GO THAT FAR.
* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.