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MEETING TO ORDER.[Wetlands Board on December 18, 2025.]
DECEMBER, 2025 MEETING OF THE MACK COUNTY WETLANDS BOARD.WHILE GOING THROUGH INTRODUCTORY REMARKS, PLEASE TAKE THE TIME TO SILENCE OR TURN OFF YOUR CELL PHONES.
THE WETLAND BOARD CONSISTS OF FIVE MEMBERS OF APPROVAL OF PERMITS, REQUIRES A MAJORITY VOTE OF THE BOARD.
TODAY WE HAVE FOUR MEMBERS AND ONE ALTERNATE PRESENT.
UH, WE HAVE A QUORUM FROM MY LEFT TO RIGHT, PLEASE.
UH, MR. GICK VICE CHAIR, MR. WARD, MR. TAYLOR, AND SITTING IN FOR MR. BADGER WHO ABSENT IS ALTERNATE.
UH, IF I MAY INTRODUCE OUR STAFF AND OFFICIALS PRESENT.
WE HAVE MS. GINGER HARMON, UH, ADMINISTRATIVE ASSISTANT, MR. PAUL WATSON, UH, DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF CODE VIOLATION DIVISION, MR. LEE PBIT IN THE BACK, WHO IS DEPUTY COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR, MS. CLAIRE, UH, GORMAN FROM VIRGINIA MARINE RESOURCES VMRC.
UM, SO WE APPRECIATE Y'ALL BEING HERE.
UH, THE BOARD IS AWARE OF AND COMPLIES AS CLOSELY AS POSSIBLE TO THE OBJECTIVES OF THE VIRGINIA MARINE RESOURCES COMMISSION'S WETLAND POLICY OF NO NET LOSS.
ALL APPROVED PERMITS ARE GRANTED FOR A TWO YEAR PERIOD, UH, FROM THE DATE OF THIS HEARING, UNLESS SPECIFICALLY NOTED ALL PERSONS, UH, SPEAKING BEFORE THIS BOARD WILL BE SWORN IN, PLEASE.
UH, I ASSUME THAT EVERYONE HAS HAD A MOMENT TO LOOK OVER THE AGENDA FOR THIS MONTH'S MEETING.
ANY QUESTIONS, COMMENTS FROM THE BOARD ON IT? MAY I ASK FOR A MOTION TO ACCEPT THE AGENDA? I MAKE A MOTION TO ACCEPT THE AGENDA.
UH, WE WERE A LITTLE LATE ON THE MINUTES, UH, BUT WE HAVE 'EM, I THINK EVERYBODY'S PROBABLY LOOKED OVER IT.
UH, MR. ICK MADE A FEW CHANGES.
SO, UH, IN MY ABSENCE, UH, I HAVE TO RELY ON YOU GUYS, BUT DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, COMMENTS, ANYTHING ABOUT, UH, MINUTES? ALRIGHT.
UM, IF SO, I WILL ASK FOR A VOTE TO ACCEPT THE MINUTES LAST.
I'LL MAKE, I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO ACCEPT THE, UH, MINUTES.
UH, IF WE MAY, WE'RE GONNA MOVE ON TO, UM, MOVE ON TO OLD BUSINESS AND, UM, OLD BUSINESS IS, UM, AS YOU ALL KNOW, UH, 0.4, UH, 4.01, UH, VIOLATION SUMMARY.
I'M GONNA ASK, UH, TOM TO STEP UP, BE SWORN IN.
PAUL, UH, MAY I, UH, SWEAR YOU IN, SIR, DO YOU AFFIRM OR SWEAR YOU TELL THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH IN ALL MATTERS BEFORE THIS BOARD? I DO.
WOULD YOU, UH, BRING US UP TO DATE ON THAT? SURE.
UH, PAUL WATSON FOR THE COUNTY, UM, THE FIRST ONE, CAPTAINS COVE.
UH, NOTHING ELSE TO REPORT OTHER THAN WHAT'S ON THE AGENDA.
WE HAVE GOTTEN THE PRELIMINARY PLANS, AND I'M EXPECTING THE JPA TO BE FILED BEFORE THE NEXT MEETING.
UH, THE PRELIMINARY PLANS DO SHOW MARSH RESTORATION WHERE THEY HAVE PLACED THE CONCRETE ON THE MARSH.
UM, THE SECOND ONE, UH, CAMERON AT ONE MEADVILLE, UM, I ACTUALLY GOT THE JPAI BELIEVE YESTERDAY, AND IT MAY QUALIFY AS A LIVING SHORELINE PROJECT, AND IT DOES SHOW MARSH RESTORATION.
SO WE DO HAVE SOME GOOD PROGRESS ON THAT AND, AND HE IS WILLING TO STEP UP AND DO THAT BECAUSE IT IS A GOOD PLACE, PARTICULARLY ON THAT SIDE OF OUR CREEK.
AND, AND, AND HE HAS EMPLOYED, UM, ELLEN GRIMES, WHO'S DONE EXCELLENT.
PROBABLY ALL THE LIVING SHORELINES WITHIN VIEW OF THAT PROPERTY.
I DON'T KNOW, MAYBE A HALF DOZEN OR MORE.
UM, EVERYBODY KNOWS WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IN THE MEADVILLE FAR AS YOU GO.
UH, AND, UH, THEY'RE THE ONES THAT HAD THE RIP WRAP ALL OVER EVERYWHERE.
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THE VEGETATED AND, UM, THEY WERE GONNA TRY LIVING.AND THAT'S A VERY, VERY GOOD THING.
I THINK IT'S A GOOD SPOT TO TRY.
YOU GET A NORTHWEST 40 MILE AN HOUR WIND, WHO THE HECK KNOWS WHERE OVER THERE, WHERE WE LIVE, BUT IT'S WORTH TRYING.
MAY I ASK, ARE WE GONNA HEAR THAT JPA NEXT MONTH OR, UM, SO IF IT QUALIFIES AS A LIVING SHORELINE, IT WOULD BE EXEMPT FROM HEARING, BUT I WOULD PRESENT IT AS PART OF THE VIOLATION TO CLOSE THE BOOK ON THAT.
UM, JUST TO SHOW THAT IT, THEY'RE RESTORING THE MARSH, UH, AS A RESULT OF THAT JPA.
AND THE LAST ONE IS, UH, MR. PULASKI.
AND, UM, HE SENT ME SOMETHING LAST NIGHT THAT I PROVIDED, COPIED TO YOU.
UM, THE LAST, I GUESS, DEMAND WE HAD OF HIM WAS THAT HE PROVIDE AN OVERVIEW.
HE, HE DOES HAVE THE YELLOW BOX ON THE LOCATION WHERE HE HAD PLACED, OR HIS CONTRACTOR HAD PLACED THE REP WRAP ON THE MARSH AND KILLED THE MARSH.
UM, SO I BELIEVE WE HAVE AN ENFORCEABLE PLAN.
I AM NOW PLANNING TO GIVE HIM A DEADLINE OF TO, UH, GET THE GRAVEL OUT AND, AND THEN REPLANT THE MARSH WHERE HE HAS INDICATED AND THE DEADLINE, UM, I WAS GONNA DISCUSS IT WITH THE BOARD.
UM, AS FAR AS GETTING THE GRAVEL OUT, I THINK IT'S WELL PAST TIME HE SHOULD HAVE DONE THAT.
WELL, WE'VE BEEN ALL THROUGH THIS WITH THIS GENTLEMAN, SO I'M ALL FOR GETTING IT DONE AND BEING FAIR.
SO SINCE JULY WAS WHEN IT WAS BEFORE COURT.
SO I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR WHAT THE BOARD HAS TO SAY AFTER LOOKING AT THIS AND AFTER GOING THROUGH WHAT WE HAVE, UH, I WANT TO BE FAIR AND I WANT IT FIXED.
NOT NECESSARILY HIM BEING IN TROUBLE, BUT I NEED TO DO IT IN A TIMELY FASHION.
SO ANYBODY GOT ANYTHING TO SHARE? ANY THOUGHTS? ANY, UH, LIKE TO HEAR WHAT EVERYONE HAS TO SAY ON A REASONABLE LENGTH OF TIME AFTER WHAT WE'VE ALREADY BEEN THROUGH? WHAT SHOULD WE DO? TALK TO ME.
IT'S, TO ME IT'S THE TON AREA.
UH, THE MARSH QUALITY MARSH NEIGHBORS HAS BEEN UP AND DOWN.
IF YOU LOOK AT THE PICTURES, THINK IF YOU, IF YOU GOT A GOOD HUNDRED PERCENT SAND PUT ON THERE, IT WOULD PROBABLY IN JUST IN PLANTINGS, I THINK WE LIVE, IT'S LIKE I SAY THIS, WHEN WAS THIS PICTURE TAKEN? YOU GOT IT RIGHT HERE LAST.
UM, I DO NOT, WELL, I DO NOT KNOW.
AND I THOSE, BUT THOSE OF YOU REMEMBER THE WHOLE THING, THE, EVEN THE NEIGHBORS, THE MARSH ITSELF IS THE, UH, QUALITY OF IT HAS BEEN UP AND DOWN.
I DON'T KNOW, I DON'T THINK ANYBODY KNOWS WHEN THIS WAS TAKEN, BUT THERE'S VERY LITTLE CHANGE IN MY OPINION AFTER LOOKING.
BUT LIKE I SAID, PUT PUT THE, THE RATE, THE RATE SAW DOWN, RAISE UP THE SAME LEVEL PLANT THAT YOU PLANT, THEN BE DONE WITH IT.
HE'S GONNA TAKE CARE OF THAT WITH CORRECT, UH, MATERIALS, ET CETERA.
WHAT I WANT TO KNOW IS HOW LONG DO WE GET HIM GIVE HIM TO DO THIS? I DON'T, IS THERE ANY OPTIMAL DEBT TIME TO PLANT MARSH GRASS? IS IT BEST TO DO IT, UH, IN THE SPRING OR I STRING OR PAUSE TYPICALLY.
SO MAYBE SOMETHING LIKE TOO LATE NOW.
GIVE THEM A LITTLE TIME IN THE SPRING TO GET IT ALL DONE.
IS THAT A FAIR COMMENT? UH, I GOT NO PROBLEM WITH APRIL 15TH.
UH, BUT I WANT EVERYBODY TO AGREE OR NOT AGREE, GEORGE.
I WANNA BE MORE THAN FAIR, BUT I WANT IT DONE.
AND, UH, UH, HE HAS AGREED TO DO IT.
SO I I THINK THAT GIVES HIM PLENTY OF TIME.
YOU'LL, YOU'LL SEND THAT ALONG WITH ANY OTHER INFORMATION YOU'RE SENDING HIM.
I WILL COMMUNICATE THAT TO HIM THE NEXT, AND I THINK THAT'S BEING ABOVE AND BEYOND.
SO PLEASE MAKE IT VERY, VERY CLEAR THAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO THE RIGHT THING HERE.
SO HE BETTER DO WHAT HE SAYS HE'S GONNA DO.
UH, ANY OTHER LAST QUESTIONS, UH, ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR THING? UM, EVEN THOUGH IT IS OLD BUSINESS, I'M GOING TO ASK IF ANYONE HAS ANYTHING TO SAY FROM THE PUBLIC ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR, UH, ISSUE.
IF NOT, I'M GONNA CLOSE THE FLOOR, WHETHER SHOULD OR NOT OPEN IT TO PUBLIC COMMENT, COMMENT, CLOSE THE FLOOR.
UH, WE'RE GONNA MOVE ON TO NEW BUSINESS.
UH, THE FIRST ONE IS, UH, 5.01
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JPA 2020 DASH 0 6 3 5.IT'S THE, UH, ISLAND MOTOR IN, UH, IT'S AT 43 91, UH, MAIN STREET CHIN, PROPOSED BULKHEAD REPLACEMENT WITH, UH, WETLANDS BEHIND, UH, REPLACED BULKHEAD.
SO, UH, IF WE MAY, YOU ARE THERE SWORN IN MR. WATSON, WOULD YOU GIVE US A SYNOPSIS? SO THIS IS A PROJECT THAT THE JPA WAS ORIGINALLY, UH, FILED AND HEARD BACK IN 2020.
AND IT'S SOMEWHAT UNUSUAL POSTURE IN THAT, UH, BOTH THE ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS AND UM, VMRC HAVE ACTIVE PERMITS FOR THIS, SIR.
SO THEY DO NOT NEED TO APPEAR BACK BEFORE THOSE AGENCIES.
AND THAT'S WHY WE HAVE THE 2020, UH, CASE NUMBER HERE.
UH, EVERYBODY UNDERSTAND THAT THIS IS IN THE PAST SAME, SAME EXACT, SAME EXACT.
AND, UH, I ACTUALLY SPOKE WITH VMRC AS TO WHETHER THEY WERE GOING TO ISSUE A NEW CASE NUMBER.
I DIDN'T SEE ANY POINT SINCE THEY WEREN'T GONNA HAVE A NEW HEARING.
THAT'S THEIR CASE NUMBER, NOT OURS.
SO IT, THAT'S WHY WE HAVE THE 2020.
UH, SO BASICALLY THIS IS A VERY LONG BULKHEAD OF, AT THE ISLAND MOTOR INN, UM, 631 FEET.
AND IT'S JUST A SIMPLE REPLACEMENT OF THE BULKHEAD EXCEPT FOR THE NORTHERLY SECTION, WHICH IS ENCLOSING A BOAT BASIN.
AND THEN THE BOAT BASIN IS GOING TO BE FILLED.
UM, UH, HERE IS AN OVERVIEW OF THE HOTEL THAT'S ON MANY PARCELS, OBVIOUSLY.
AND THE BOAT BASIN IS AT THE NORTHERN END, AND IT'S NOT EXACTLY WHAT, UM, SO THIS IS NOT THE BOAT BASE.
THE BOAT BASE IS ACTUALLY RIGHT HERE.
BUT IT'S, IT'S GOING TO BE FILLED.
IS THAT CORRECT? THAT IF WE THAT IS CORRECT.
CHOOSE TO DO SO, WHICH IS, WE'VE DONE IT BEFORE IN VARIOUS PLACES, BUT NEVERTHELESS, WE'RE GONNA HEAR FROM MR. WARD IN A SECOND, BUT CARRY ON, SIR.
SO HERE ARE THE, UM, MAPS AND DRAWINGS AS PART OF THE JPA, UH, SHOWING THE SITE WITH THE, UH, DEPTHS RIGHT OFF THE HOTEL.
AND ALSO YOU CAN SEE IN THE TOP RIGHT HAND CORNER, UH, SHOWING EXACTLY, UH, THE BOUNDARIES OF ALL OF THE PARCELS.
AND HERE IS THE DETAILED VIEW OF IT.
AND AS YOU CAN SEE, HERE'S THE BOAT BASIN TO BE ENCLOSED.
AND HERE IS THE LENGTH OF THE BULKHEAD ON THE WAY AROUND THE HOTEL.
AND THESE ARE JUST DETAILS OF THE ACTUAL CONSTRUCTION.
UH, AND HERE ARE THE PICTURES.
THIS IS STARTING AT THE SOUTH END, RIGHT? AS AND THEN CONTINUING AROUND, UH, THIS IS ANOTHER VIEW BACK TOWARDS THE ISLAND FROM THE SOUTH END BASIN.
THE BULKHEAD IS OBVIOUSLY UNDERNEATH THE BOARDWALK GOING TOWARDS THE NORTH END OF THE HOTEL AND THEN ROUNDING THE CORNER EVENTUALLY TO THE BASIN.
AND HERE IS A PICTURE OF IT AT, I'M NOT SURE IF THIS WAS HIGH TIDE, BUT IT WAS CERTAINLY NOT LOW TIDE, UH, WENT BACK AT A LATER DATE.
THIS WAS AN, SEEMED TO BE AN AVERAGE LOW TIDE.
AND THIS IS THE, WHEN WE TOOK THE MEASUREMENTS OF THE NON VEGETATIVE WETLANDS.
SO JUST TO CLARIFY, THE UH, NEW BULKHEAD OR THE BULKHEAD THAT CUT OFF THE BASIN ACTUALLY GONNA BE A DIAGONAL FROM THAT EDGE THERE ON THE RIGHT GOING OFF DIAGONALLY TO THE BULKHEAD THAT'S ON TR ON THE CREEK.
SO IT'S NOT GONNA BE, IT'S GONNA BE LIKE ANGLE.
AND UM, SO THE BOARD HAS CONTEXT FOR THE NON VEGITATIVE, UH, WETLAND FEE.
AND WHILE THIS PRICE SCHEDULE, UM, HAS A JANUARY 15TH, 2025 DATE, THEY DID, UH, STATE THAT THIS IS THE PRESENT, UH, PRICE FOR NON VEGETATED WETLANDS.
UH, SO THIS, UH, MIL, IT'S A MILLION DOLLARS PER ACRE AND SQUARE FOOT.
ABOUT $22, UM, 22 IS WHAT I TOOK IT TO BE DUE TO MATH.
UM, AND DO THEY HAVE CREDITS? THEY DO HAVE ATLANTIC CREDITS.
THEY DO NOT HAVE CHESAPEAKE BAY CREDITS, BUT I ACTUALLY, UH, SEND EMAILS BACK AND FORTH AND THEY'RE GONNA
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KEEP ME UP TO DATE ON WHEN THEY HAVE CREDITS FOR BOTH SIDES.BUT RIGHT NOW THEY DO HAVE ATLANTIC CREDITS AVAILABLE.
THAT'LL BE, UH, BETWEEN YOU, UH, AS SOON AS YOU FINISH.
I THINK MR. WARD MAYBE CAN BRING US UP TO DATE.
YOU GOT ANYTHING ELSE ON THIS? UM, I WOULD SAY THE, IT'S $22 AND 96 CENTS.
WELL, IN THE REAL WORLD I THINK IT MIGHT BE ABLE BE, WE HAVE HER, UH, TO SAY THAT TO OBTAIN MITIGATION CREDITS FROM VIRGINIA CLARK TRUST FUND OR WHOEVER HAS 'EM.
THAT WAY WE'RE NOT SETTING THE PLACE THAT WE CAN'T SET THE PLACE.
IT'S NO LONGER IN OUR PURVIEW TO SET THAT PLACE.
WE USED TO BE OUR AT $18 THAT WE SHOW, I THINK IN OUR, WHEN WE SAY WE ACCEPT IT, BUT WE NEED THE MITIGATION TO OBTAIN MITIGATION CREDITS OF SOMEBODY SUCH AS VIRGINIA CREDIT TRUST FUND OR ANY, ANYBODY THAT WOULD HAVE 'EM IN THE ATLANTIC.
AND, AND LIKE I SAY, 'CAUSE THAT THAT 22 9 6, THAT, THAT PRICE HAS ALREADY BEEN ALL OVER EVERYWHERE I'VE HEARD FROM 22 TO 36.
UM, AND I GUESS THE ONLY OTHER THING I WOULD ADD IS THAT BACK IN 2020, UH, BETWEEN VMRC AND THE WETLANDS BOARD, THERE WAS A DIVVYING UP OF SUB AQUEOUS VERSUS NON VEGITATIVE WETLANDS.
AT THAT TIME, THE NON VEGITATIVE WETLANDS WERE A LOT SMALLER THAN THEY ARE NOW.
SO I'M NOT SURE IF THEY CAN GO BACK TO VMRC BECAUSE THEY PAID FOR MORE SUB AQUEOUS THAN THERE ACTUALLY EXISTS RIGHT NOW.
SO THEY'RE ESSENTIALLY MAY HAVE TO PAY TWICE UNLESS VMRC GIVES THEM SOME RELIEF.
NOT, NOT OUR JOB THE WAY I SEE IT.
I, I GUESS THE QUESTION I HAVE IS, AND I NEED MY MEMORY CHECK, WHEN DID WE START CHARGING FOR NON VEGETATED WETLANDS HERE IN MIMA COUNTY? BECAUSE IT WAS AFTER 2020.
SO I, I HAVE TO SAY THIS AND TO MAKE SURE WE CLEAR, CLEAR ON THIS, EVEN THOUGH THE JPA WAS GRANTED IN 2020 BEFORE WE START CHARGING FOR UNVEGETATED WETLANDS TO LATE, WE ARE, BUT, BUT THE, I THOUGHT THE RULE WAS IF WE, IF THEY DIDN'T CHANGE THE JPA NUMBER AND IT WAS JUST AN EXTENSION, YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT I'M ASKING HERE THAT, IS IT REALLY CORRECT TO CHARGE THEM? WELL, I'LL BRING UP A RELATED ISSUE JUST FOR YOU TO PONDER.
AND THAT IS WHEN THIS ISSUE FIRST CAME UP AND I SPOKE TO MR. WARD ABOUT IT, HE INQUIRED AS TO WHETHER THIS PERMIT COULD BE RENEWED.
AND WE CHECKED THE BOARD'S POLICY FOR RENEWALS.
OBVIOUSLY 2020 IS A LONG TIME AGO.
I THINK IT WAS ONLY FOR ONE YEAR AT THE TIME.
AND MY ADVICE WAS, GO AHEAD AND FILE THE JPA BECAUSE IF THE BOARD SAYS YOU CAN'T RENEW IT, THEN YOU'D HAVE TO COME BACK A SECOND TIME FOR THE JPA.
IF YOU FILED THE JPA, THEN, UH, THEN OBVIOUSLY YOU'LL GET HEARD AND YOU GOT GRANTED THE FIRST TIME.
IT OBVIOUSLY, IT SEEMS LIKE A GOOD PROJECT, UH, THIS ISSUE CAME UP AFTER THAT MM-HMM
UM, SO THAT I, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE BOARD WOULD THINK ABOUT A RENEWAL OF THE 2020 PERMIT, BUT IT DID NOT SEEM LIKE IT WAS WITHIN THE BOARD'S POLICY.
UH, WE WERE ONE YEAR CHANGING TO TWO YEARS, BUT SINCE 2020, UH, IT'S, IT'S, UH, GONE BEYOND OUR EXTENSION.
UH, SO WE, I GUESS WE'LL BE MAKING A DECISION WHETHER A NEW JPA WILL HAVE TO BE ISSUED, BUT I CAN TELL YOU THIS, UH, THE FEES, UH, ARE NOT 2020 FEES.
I JUST HAD TO BRING THAT UP 'CAUSE I HAD TO ASK THAT.
'CAUSE I KNOW WHEN THEY CHANGED THE JPA NUMBER THAT NOW YES, NOW WE HAVE TO HAVE THE UNVEGETATED WHITMANS CONSIDERED, WE NEVER CHANGED ANOTHER AND I SAW WHERE THE VMRC EXTENDED TO 2029 IN THEIR LETTER.
SO I'M JUST GONNA MAKE SURE THERE'S NO CONTRADICTION OF WHAT WE DO AND WHAT'S OUT THERE RIGHT NOW.
MY QUESTION, THIS IS A NEW GPA, ISN'T IT? UM, THIS WAS FILED AS A NEW JPA, UH, WHY DOESN'T IT HAVE THE 2025 NUMBER? BECAUSE VMRC HAS AN ACTIVE PERMIT FOR, AND, AND, WELL, WELL, LEMME BACK UP A LITTLE BIT.
UH, MR. WARD FILED THE EXACT SAME PAPERWORK THAT WAS FILED IN 2020 DOWN.
IT, HE DID NOT CHANGE IT AT ALL.
SO WHEN I TALKED TO VMRC, THEY, SINCE IT'S THE EXACT SAME DOCUMENT AND THEY HAD AN ACTIVE PERMIT, THEY DID NOT ASSIGN A NEW NUMBER.
LET, LET, THEY ARE THE PURVEYORS OF THE, THE GIVING THE NUMBERS.
BUT I'M SAYING, BUT BACK TO THAT, YOU'RE SAYING 2020.
LET, LET'S, UH, LET, LET HIM FINISH AND I WANT TO HEAR WHAT CHUCK HAS TO SAY ABOUT IT AND THEN WE'LL COME BACK.
SO, UH, IF, IF YOU DON'T MIND, OKAY, LET'S HERE, UH, DON'T GO TOO FAR.
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REPRESENTING, UH, THIS JPA IS MR. CHUCK WARD STARBOARD.MAY I SWEAR YOU IN? DO YOU FIRMLY SWEAR YOU'LL TELL THE TRUTH BEFORE THIS BOARD? UH, NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH.
WHY DON'T YOU, UH, START FROM THE BEGINNING OF YOUR DEAL AND TELL US THE DEAL? CERTAINLY.
TO, TO CLARIFY WHAT'S HAPPENING HERE IS, UM, THE OWNER, REGGIE STUBBS AND HIS SON, WHO'S ALSO AN OWNER, REGGIE STUBBS, IS IN THE ROOM.
UM, THE, UH, THEY, THEY APPROACHED ME ABOUT, YOU KNOW, UH, DEAN FISHER.
THEY, THEY'VE BEEN WORKING ON THIS PROJECT SINCE 2020 TRYING TO GET THE FUNDING TOGETHER FOR THIS IN EXCESS OF A MILLION DOLLAR PROJECT.
UM, DEAN FISHER WAS FIGURING OUT WHEN HE'S GONNA GET THIS HUGE BARGE AND THIS BIG CRANE, A LOT, LOT, LOT OF LOGISTICS IN GETTING THIS GOING.
SO THEY WERE HOPING TO GET STARTED ON IT THIS WINTER.
SO BACK, I GUESS IT WAS OCTOBER, UM, REGGIE, UM, CALLED ME AND ASKED ME IF I COULD GET THIS, YOU KNOW, FIND OUT WHAT WE NEEDED TO DO TO, TO, TO GET WORK AND MAKE SURE EVERYTHING WAS OKAY.
SO WE FOUND OUT VERY QUICKLY THAT VM C'S APPROVAL WAS STILL VALID.
UM, AND THAT THE EXACT SAME PLAN THAT THEY HAD IN 2020 IS EXACTLY WHAT THEY WANNA DO TODAY.
THEY'VE NOT CHANGED THEIR MIND, THEY'VE JUST BEEN TRYING TO GET THE FUNDING RIGHT TO GET THIS JOB STARTED.
AND, AND THE LOGISTICS OF GETTING IT STARTED.
SO, UM, THE ARMY CORPS, UM, THEIR APPROVAL PROCESS HAS CHANGED SINCE 2020.
SO THIS IS GOING IN, UM, RIGHT NOW.
I JUST GOT AN EMAIL A COUPLE DAYS AGO FROM MS. HOLLINGSWORTH AT THE, UM, AT THE CORPS.
IT IS GOING IN FOR 4 0 8 REVIEW THROUGH THE ARMY CORPS, WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, IT, I'M SURE THEY'LL APPROVE IT.
IT'S JUST A MATTER OF THEY'VE GOTTA DO NEW PAPERWORK THAT THEY DIDN'T DO IN 2020.
SO WE'RE GOING THROUGH THAT, THAT THAT SHOULDN'T BE ANY BIG DEAL.
AND THEN OF COURSE, THE WETLANDS BOARD APPROVAL HAD EXPIRED.
SO, UM, I TOOK THE EXACT DOCUMENTS THAT MR. STUBBS PAID FOR, YOU KNOW, ALL THE PLANS AND EVERYTHING THAT HE PAID FOR IN 2020.
AND WE JUST HANDED THEM BACK AND SAID, HERE, HERE'S WHAT THEY HAVE.
THEY'D LIKE TO GET THIS APPROVED AGAIN, SENT IT IN.
AND OF COURSE, THE, UM, IT'S CORRECT THERE IS, THERE'S NOT A NEW JPA NUMBER BEEN ASSIGNED TO THIS.
WE'RE OPERATING UNDER THE SAME JPA NUMBER FROM 2020.
UM, SO THE ARMY CORPS, THEY'LL ASSIGN A NEW REVIEW NUMBER, THEIR NAO NUMBER THAT THEY ISSUE.
UM, BUT THAT HAS NO EFFECT HERE.
I DON'T, I DON'T SEE ANY REVIEW PART, ANY REVIEW COMMENTS COMING BACK FROM THE CORPS THAT WOULD AFFECT WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE.
UM, SO AT THIS POINT, WHAT THE OWNERS ARE LOOKING FOR IS TO RENEW IS THE, IN, IN THEIR MIND THAT THE, THE CONCEPT IS LET'S RENEW THE APPROVAL THAT WE HAD IN 2020.
WE KNOW THAT YOU CAN'T JUST RENEW AN APPROVAL LIKE THAT.
SO WE'RE HERE BASICALLY, YOU KNOW, WITH OUR HAT IN OUR HANDS SAYING, HOW, HOW CAN WE GET THIS, THIS EXACT PLAN APPROVED AGAIN IN 2025 THAT WAS APPROVED IN 2020.
I THINK FIRST THING IS, UH, WAIT JUST A MINUTE, BUT THE FIRST THING WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT, DO WE IN FACT NEED A NEW, UH, JPA SECONDLY THE, UH, DOLLAR VALUES.
AND THEN I THINK THAT IT FROM THAT POINT ON, UH, WE CAN APPROVE THIS, UH, IF WE SAY WE DON'T WANT A NEW JPA AND, UH, JUST LET THEM GO AT IT AS FAR AS THE AMOUNT OF DOLLARS, ET CETERA, ET CETERA.
CERTAINLY, AND WE, AND WE DO REALIZE THAT IN THE LAST FIVE YEARS THAT BOAT BASIN HAS SILTED IN, I MEAN, THAT, THAT'S THE REASON FOR CLOSING IT OFF IS IT WAS A GREAT IDEA TO HAVE A BOAT BASIN THERE, BUT THE AMOUNT OF SILT THAT THE SILTING IN THAT GOES THERE, IT'S JUST NOT WORTH THE HASSLE OF HAVING IT.
SO THAT'S WHY THE OWNERS WANTED TO JUST DO AWAY WITH IT.
PLUS IT'LL, IT'LL GET THE WAVE ACTION MOVING DOWN.
IT'LL, IT'LL TAKE SOME OF THE STRESS OFF OF THAT BULKHEAD TO PUT A ANGLED WALL THERE, RATHER THAN HAVING THAT, THAT, THAT 90 DEGREE ANGLE AGAINST THE CREEK.
SO, UM, THEY'RE, THEY'RE COMPLETELY FINE WITH, YOU KNOW, UNDERSTAND, WE, WE UNDERSTAND THAT THERE'S BEEN MORE SILTING IN, BUT I DIDN'T MAKE, I DIDN'T WANNA MAKE ANY CHANGES TO WHAT THE BOARD HAD APPROVED.
SO I'M, I'M, WE'RE, WE'RE IN CONCURRENCE WITH, UM, THE, THE CHANGES TO THE NON VEGETATIVE WETLANDS.
UH, ANYONE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR MR. WARD, UH, REGARDING THE OLD JPA BEFORE? UH, WHICH WILL BE EXACTLY LIKE THE NEW ONE IF WE CHOOSE, UH, TO, UH, PRODUCE A NEW JPA? UH, WELL, THE, THE JPA, THESE NUMBERS COME FROM BMRC.
THEY'RE THE CLEARING HOUSE FOR THE NUMBER.
SO IF THAT'S THE NUMBER IT IS, THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE GETTING.
WELL, WHEN, WHEN, NO, WHEN A, WHEN, WHEN, WHEN JPA IS DONE, IT GOES TO DENTAL FIRST, THEY ISSUE THE JPA, THEY ARE SAYING THIS IS THE SAME JPA, IT'S THE SAME J-P-A-I-I, I GUESS WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE THAT ASK MS. GO IF SHE'S OKAY OPERATING UNDER THIS.
YEAH, I I THINK YOU, YOU'RE DEAD ON IT.
UH, MS. GORMAN, WOULD YOU APPROACH, AND LET ME SWEAR YOU IN.
DO YOU AFFIRM OR SWEAR YOU TELL THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH IN ALL MATTER BEFORE THIS BOARD? YES, SIR.
DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE QUESTION, UH, REGARDING, UH, 2020 JPA OR WHEN IT COMES BACK TO
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YOU TALK BOOTS? UM, SO IF YOU COULD REPEAT THE QUESTION SPECIFICALLY, I THINK I UNDERSTAND.ARE YOU OKAY WITH USING THIS OLD JPA NUMBER AND NOT USING MORE A 2025 NUMBER? YOU, IS IT OKAY TO OPERATE UNDERNEATH THIS OLD 2020 YES NUMBER? SO WE HAVE A CURRENT AND VALID PERMIT UNDER THIS NUMBER.
IF YOU ALL WANTED A NEW JPA NUMBER, WE COULD ISSUE ONE, BUT THAT WOULD NOT CHANGE.
JUST TO BE CLEAR, THAT WOULDN'T CHANGE ANYTHING REALLY.
IT WOULD JUST GET REDISTRIBUTED.
WE WOULD ISSUE A LETTER SAYING THERE'S A VALID PERMIT SO IT WOULDN'T CHANGE ANYTHING.
SO WE ARE FINE WITH USING THE SAME JPA NUMBER.
I THINK IT REDUCED, IT'S, REDUCES THE CONFUSION A LITTLE BIT.
UM, HOWEVER IT IS, IT, IT'S AN OPTION, BUT IT WOULDN'T CHANGE YOUR REVIEW RIGHT NOW.
I I THINK WE'VE HEARD FROM EVERYBODY AND I THINK EVERYBODY'S OKAY WITH ANY CHARGING FOR UNVEGETATED WEAPONS.
SO EVERYBODY'S ON THE SAME BOARDS.
I THINK WHATEVER NUMBER WE WANT TO USE, I THINK IT'S FINE.
I, I DON'T THINK THAT'S AN ISSUE.
ONE QUESTION, ASSUMING WE'RE ON THE SAME PAGE OF WHAT IS THE DOWNSIDE OF USING THE OLD JPA? I DON'T SEE ONE.
ANYBODY SEE BEING WITH THEM, BUT THEY GOT, HOW ABOUT TIMELINES? THEY GET TWO YEARS, STILL GET TWO YEARS STARTING NOW.
IT'S TWO YEARS FROM DATE OF APPROVAL OR WHATEVER.
NO, I SAID AS LONG AS BMR C IS HAPPY, THEY ARE THE, THEY ARE THE ISSUERS OF THE NUMBERS.
BUT I DO NOT THAT I DON'T CARE.
BUT I DO WANT TO JUST REITERATE THAT WHILE THIS IS A 2020 APPLICATION, YOU ARE CURRENTLY REVIEWING THIS UNDER 2025 VIRGINIA LAW, BUT WE JUST GOTTA PROVE IT UNDER VMRC 2020.
IT DOESN'T, AGAIN, AS LONG AS YOU'RE HAPPY, LIKE I SAID, YOU'RE THE, YOU'RE THE ONE THAT ISSUES THE NUMBERS.
YOU'RE THE, UH, VMRC IS THE PARENT HOUSE OF THE NUMBER.
ANY OTHER ISSUES REGARDING IT FOR CLAIRE? I APPRECIATE PEOPLE'S TIME FOR CLARIFYING THAT.
UM, LIKE TO KNOW IF THERE'S ANYONE ELSE THAT WOULD LIKE TO APPROACH AND SPEAK ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR JPA? TOTALLY.
MR. STUBBS, YOU HAVE INTEREST IN TALKING ABOUT IT.
I, I, UH, THANK YOU FOR COMING.
UH, MAY I, WOULD YOU STATE YOUR NAME FOR THE RECORD, PLEASE? MY NAME'S REGINALD STUBBS.
AND MAY I SWEAR YOU IN, SIR, YOU FIRMLY SWEAR YOU TELL THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH AND ALL MATTERS BEFORE THIS BOARD.
I'D LIKE TO HEAR WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY.
UH, I'D JUST LIKE TO SEE MY PERMIT RENEWED SO I CAN FIX MY BULKHEAD.
IT'S, IT'S, UH, MY, MY, MY PIERCE MY, UH, BULK, MY, UH, BOARDWALK AND EVERYTHING'S STARTING TO COLLAPSE INTO THE CREEK.
WELL, IT CERTAINLY NEEDS TO, BUT, UH, NO, THAT, THAT'S ALL I ASK.
AND, UH, I THINK EVERYBODY HERE AGREES THAT IT NEEDS SOME, WE WOULD'VE, WE WOULD'VE HAD IT DONE, BUT, UH, IT'S BEEN HARD TIME GETTING THE CONSTRUCTION GUYS TO DO IT.
THEY'RE TOO BUSY TO GET STARTED ON IT, YOU KNOW? UH, THAT'S, THAT'S THE BIGGEST THING.
SIR, THAT'S WHY THE PERMIT'S RUN DOWN.
UM, ANYONE ELSE WISH TO SPEAK ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR, UH, THIS PARTICULAR JPA AT ALL? IF NOT, I'M GONNA CLOSE THAT AND I'M GONNA OPEN IT, UH, TO COMMENT.
I GUESS WHAT I'M THINKING A LITTLE BIT, WHAT WE DID LAST MONTH IN REGARDS TO THAT CHECKLIST, DO YOU THINK, UH, THAT WE SHOULD REVIEW THAT IN TERMS OF, UH, IT IS COMMERCIAL SO YOU, YOU CAN CONDUCT THAT COMMERCIAL PART OF IT.
IT IS A COMMERCIAL, UH, APPLICATION.
AND THAT WAS WHAT, 20% PAUL? IT IS CORRECT? YES.
UM, AND WAS THERE ANYTHING ELSE? I DON'T KNOW.
WHERE'S THAT? YOU HAD THAT LIST AVAILABLE FOR ME AGAIN.
UM, BUT IT WAS 20% COMMERCIAL, UH, A COMMERCIAL APPLICATION.
I HAD MY CHECKLIST WAS YOUR QUESTION, SIR? NO, HE, HE SAID ABOUT THE DEDUCTION OF THE, UH, MITIGATION OH YES.
I KNOW THE ONE THAT I JUST SAID, IT'S COME TO MY MIND.
IT IS COMMERCIAL, I THINK WAS A 20% DEDUCTION.
I HAD IT IN I, OKAY, THANK YOU.
THAT'S WHAT SHE, SHE GETS PAID THE BIG BOOK.
AND THEN, SO YEAH, SO IS THAT CORRECT, PAUL? UM,
[00:30:05]
SO THE COMMERCIAL ON THE CHECKLIST, THE COMMERCIAL QUALIFIES FOR A 10% REDUCTION, 10 NO RATE.UM, IN ADDITION, UM, A MANMADE BASIN, WHICH MAYBE WE NEED TO HEAR FROM MR. STUBBS ABOUT THIS, BUT THIS, IT IS MANMADE.
THIS DOES APPEAR AS IT WOULD BE A MANMADE BASE.
AND THAT IS, IT'S A POSITIVE MANMADE ON, ON THAT.
SO THAT WOULD BE A 20% REDUCTION, 20%.
UM, THE SHEET SAYS REDUCE FEE BY 20% FOR NUMBERS ONE AND TWO.
UM, ONE IS MANMADE BASIN AND 10% FOR THREE THROUGH EIGHT.
UM, ARE WE LOOKING AT 30 OR 50% THERE RIGHT NOW? WHAT'S, SO THAT WOULD BE A 20 AND A 10%.
AND NOT, DON'T WANT TO COMPLICATE THIS, BUT I DO WANT TO BUT HAVE TO POINT OUT, THIS IS AN IN LIEU FEE WAIVER CHECKLIST.
WE DON'T HAVE IN LIEU FEES, BUT I DO SEE THE LOGIC OF APPLYING IT TO MITIGATION CREDITS.
UH, WHAT WE WANT TO KNOW, YOU UNDERSTAND YOU WERE SHAKING YOUR HEAD SO I KNOW YOU AGREE.
UH, I WANT TO KNOW IF YOU AND MR. STUBBS AGREE WITH EVERYTHING WE'VE JUST SPOKEN ABOUT, UH, AS FAR AS, UH, UH, PERCENT REDUCTION, ET CETERA, ET CETERA, IN CREDITS.
I'VE, I'VE NOT HAD THE PRIVILEGE OF, OF HEARING REDUCTION IN CREDITS BEFORE ANY OF THE CASES I'VE HAD BEFORE THE BOARD.
UM, BUT IT SOUNDS LIKE BECAUSE OF CERTAIN USES ON THE, FOR THE PROPERTY, THERE'S A REDUCTION IN THE AMOUNT OF IN LIEU CREDITS OR IN LIEU FEES, UM, THAT WOULD HAVE TO BE PAID.
SO ANY, ANY PERCENT REDUCTION, I'M PRETTY SURE THE OWNER'S GONNA SAY, WE'LL, PAY LESS IF YOU WANT US TO
UH, I, I I WOULD CERTAINLY, UH, THINK THAT'D BE A WAY TO GO.
UH, BUT I JUST WANTED TO HEAR IT FROM YOU.
UH, SO BOTH OF YOU AGREE AND THANK FOR BRINGING THAT UP BECAUSE I, I REALLY DIDN'T, I, I'VE, I'VE NOT ANY MOTION INCLUDE THAT.
AND THAT'S GONNA BE YOU BROTHER.
UM, IF WE MAY PLEASE, I'M GONNA CLOSE THE FLOOR, OPEN IT UP TO PUBLIC COMMENT, NO COMMENT.
CLOSE THE FLOOR, OPEN IT UP TO FURTHER BOARD DISCUSSION.
ANYONE HAVE ANYTHING ELSE TO SAY? ANY QUESTIONS TO ASK ANYONE? OR ARE WE ALL ON THE SAME PAGE? I, I GUESS LIKE MY NORMAL ROUTINE IN TERMS OF HABITAT, UH, IF YOU CAN MAYBE REPLACE OR RELOCATE ANY OYSTERS BEFORE DOING ANY WORK ON THAT PARTICULAR AREA WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED OR YES, SIR.
THAT ALSO NEEDS TO BE IN THE MOTION.
UH, ANYTHING ELSE? ALRIGHT, I THINK WE HAVE THIS PRETTY WELL IN HAND AND, UM, UH, IN A MOMENT WE'RE GONNA CALL FOR A MOTION.
UH, WE'VE ALL DETERMINED THAT THE 2020 JPA IS GOOD.
UM, AND THEN THE REDUCTIONS AND, UH, FEES AND SO FORTH.
SO NO MORE QUESTIONS, NO MORE COMMENTS.
UH, I'M GONNA OPEN UP THE BOARD, UH, FOR A MOTION ON THIS.
I'LL MAKE A MOTION THAT WE, UH, ACCEPT AND APPROVE DMRC 20 20 0 6 35 AS PRESENTED, ESPECIALLY BEING, BECAUSE IT WAS THE VERY EXACT PERMIT WE APPROVED IN 2020.
UH, SINCE THEN THERE'S BEEN 1,009 TWO, UH, NON VEGETATED, UH, UH, WET LAND THAT HAS TO BE MITIGATED FOR.
THEY CAN GET MITIGATION CREDITS.
WE HAVE TO BE, UM, OBTAINED FROM SOMEBODY LIKE VIRGINIA AQUATIC TRUST FUND.
I THINK RIGHT NOW I THINK THAT'S GONNA BE THE ONE YOU'RE GONNA BE DEALING WITH.
UH, BUT ALSO WE SUGGEST A 10% COMMERCIAL DISCOUNT AND IT'S 20% DISCOUNT FOR THE MANMADE BASIN.
UH, MR. PAUL SAID THAT, UH, VIRGINIA AQUATIC TRUST FUND THAT OR BE RIGHT NOW IS 22.96.
WE CAN'T CONTROL THAT 'CAUSE THAT'S OUT OF OUR PURVIEW.
UH, BUT WE ALSO SUGGEST THAT THE DISCOUNT, WE ALSO JUST SUGGEST THAT ANY OYSTERS THAT ARE IN THE MANMADE BASIN TO BE PLANTED, I KNOW THAT'S NOT A PROBLEM.
'CAUSE THAT'S THE BUSINESS THAT THEY, THAT THESE YOUNG MEN WERE IN THEIR WHOLE LIFE, UH, THE OYSTER BUSINESS AND THEY KNOW THE, THEY KNOW THE VALUE OF, OF, OF DOING THAT.
SO I KNOW THAT'S NOT GONNA BE A PROBLEM EITHER.
IF I COULD REQUEST IN THE MOTION THAT WE HAVE A SPECIFIC NUMBER FOR THE SQUARE FOOTAGE.
IS THAT 1,092 IS, WHICH YOU WERE SAYING ON THAT PAPER THAT YOU GOT THERE.
I KNOW YOU ORIGINALLY TOLD ME IT'S 800 SOMETHING, BUT YOU'RE SAYING IT RIGHT HERE.
[00:35:01]
DAMN, 70% IS 764.LIKE I SAID, WE'LL CHANGE THAT TO THAT.
I WAS GOING THE NUMBER ON THERE.
SO, BUT LIKE I SAID, THAT SEVEN NINETY'S LOWER THAN 800 SOMETHING.
Y'ALL AGREE WITH THE 7 9 2? 'CAUSE I HEARD VISION HEARD 800.
WHAT'S YOUR PROBLEM, CHUCK? OH, I I I'LL GET THE MICROPHONE.
I I THOUGHT THAT WE WERE BASING IT ON THE, WHAT, THE 2200 SQUARE FOOT.
THE, WE, I HAD DISCUSSED THAT WITH PAUL AND, AND CLAIRE THAT YEAH, THE EIGHT EIGHT, ABOUT 800 IT SQUARE BEEN CHANGED.
I HEARD 802 AND LIKE I SAID, I'M READING THAT HERE.
SO THE, THE, THE NUMBER THAT EVERYBODY HAS AGREED ON IS WHAT, 764? THAT'S CORRECT.
DO, DO YOU WANT GINGER? YOU WANT THE MOTION STARTED AGAIN? YES, PLEASE.
ALRIGHT, LET'S START ALL OVER AGAIN.
UH, I CALL FOR A MOTION ON THIS JPAI MAKE A MOTION THAT WE APPROVE VMRC 2020 DASH 0 6 3 5 AS PRESENTED BEING.
IT'S THE SAME EXACT PERMANENT REQUEST THAT WE HAD IN 2020 THAT WE APPROVED.
WE HAVE TO HAVE MITIGATION FOR 776 SQUARE SQUARE FOOT NON VEGETATED, 7 64.
7 64 SQUARE FEET OF, UH, NON VEGITATIVE WETLANDS THAT'S IN THE BOAT BASIN.
WE ALSO REQUEST THAT IT'S A 10% COMMERCIAL DISCOUNT AND A 20% DISCOUNT FOR MANMADE BASIN.
10% FOR COMMERCIAL SHOULD BE A 30% DISCOUNT.
THE MITIGATION CREDITS WOULD HAVE TO BE ATTAINED FROM SOMEBODY LIKE VIRGINIA AQUATIC TRUST FUND.
AND WE'RE THINKING IT'S PROBABLY GONNA BE THE ONLY WE SHOW IN TOWN.
UH, RIGHT NOW, MR. PAUL SAYS THAT THOSE NUMBERS WERE 22 9 6 A SQUARE FOOT AND WE ALSO SUGGEST THE DISCOUNTS OF 30% BECAUSE OF COMMERCIAL AND MANMADE BASEMENT.
THE NUMBER OF CREDITS THEY NEED TO PURCHASE WITH THE DISCOUNT IS 764.
YEAH, THE NET, THAT'S THE NET 'CAUSE OF THE DISCOUNTS.
776 SQUARE FOOT, I MEAN 764, UM, SQUARE FOOT OF NON VEGETATED WETLAND CREDIT WOULD HAVE TO BE DONE FOR VIRGINIA QUITE TRUST FUND AND USING THE NUMBER 22 9 6.
AND THEN SOMEBODY MULTIPLY 76 7 64, THAT'S GONNA BE A NUMBER AND RELOCATION OF OYSTERS AND DEFINITELY HAVE THE RELOCATION, ANY OYSTERS THAT ARE IN THE BOAT BASIN TO HAVE 'EM TRANSPLANTED.
AND, UH, ONCE AGAIN, THAT'S WHAT THEY DO FOR A LIVING.
SO I THINK THAT'S WHAT THEY FOR WHOLE LOT.
SO THEY, THEY'RE, THEY'RE NOT GONNA TAKE THAT.
THEY REQUEST, LIKE THEY DON'T GO.
YOU READ THE WHOLE MOTION? YEAH.
THE FINISHES, UH, OR THE RESTORATION WAS THE LAST TIME.
RESTORATION SHOULD BE REPLANTED.
SO WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND.
EVERYBODY UNDERSTAND THEN I CALL FOR A VOTE.
UH, GENTLEMEN, UH, PERMIT'S APPROVED FOR A TWO YEAR, UH, TIME FROM TODAY'S DATE.
ALL PARTIES OF COURSE ARE ADVISED THAT THE FOREGOING DETERMINATION GRANTS NO AUTHORITY TO ENCROACH ON THE PROPERTY OF OTHERS.
OBVIOUSLY, YOU KNOW THAT, BUT THAT'S THE WAY IT'S, UH, ALRIGHT SIR, THAT'S THE END OF THAT STORY.
UH, WE THANK YOU AND THANK YOU FOR DOING THAT.
OKAY, WE'RE GONNA CONTINUE ON WITH, UH, NEW BUSINESS.
NEXT JPA IS, UH, 2 0 2 5 DASH 1791.
IT IS, UM, AT, UH, 51 55 WINDER LANE ON CHIN TI UH, APPROACHING 450 FEET OF REVETMENT AND, UH, MARSH SEAL.
UH, MR. WATSON, YOU'RE, YOU'RE SWORN IN.
WOULD YOU OFFER A SYNOPSIS OF WHAT WE'RE DOING HERE? YES, SIR.
WE'VE BEEN OUT TO THIS PROJECT SEVERAL TIMES.
THE MARSHES BEING UNDERCUT AND BEING LOST IN FRONT OF THIS HOME.
IT'S GOT A CONSIDERABLE AMOUNT OF FRONTAGE ON SHIITE, UH, BAY.
AND, UH, THE SOLUTION BEING PROPOSED IS A MARSH SILL, UM, REVETMENT, UH, ONE FOOT HIGHER THAN MEAN HIGH WITH THE FIVE FOOT GAPS EVERY A HUNDRED FEET THAT'S REQUIRED.
AND 1800 SQUARE FEET OF NON VEGETATIVE WETLANDS WILL BE COVERED BY THE RIP WRAP OF THE SILL.
UM, I BELIEVE THIS WOULD BE A CONVERSION AS OPPOSED TO SOMETHING THAT NEEDS TO BE, UH, COMPENSATED.
[00:40:01]
HISTORICAL, UH, PICTURES OF, YOU CAN SEE THE 51 55 WINDER LANE.THAT'S THE HOUSE ON THE PROPERTY AND THE MARSH THAT'S EXTENDING TO THE NORTHWEST.
THEY'RE LOSING SOME MORE, OBVIOUSLY PUTTING THE HOUSE IN SOME JEOPARDY.
AND, UH, I GUESS PUTTING THE WHOLE NORTHWEST TWO THIRDS OF THE PROPERTY IN JEOPARDY AS IT'S BEING ERODED AWAY.
AND HERE IS THE, UH, PLAN FOR WHAT THEY ARE PROPOSING, UH, SHOWING THE SILLS AND REVETMENTS WITH THE GAPS.
UH, PRETTY MUCH PROTECTING THE ENTIRE, UH, MARSH FRONT FACING TO THE SOUTHWEST THERE.
AND HERE ARE THE DETAILS OF THE VARIOUS SECTIONS, UM, SHOWING EXACTLY THE, HOW THE RIP WRAP WILL BE PLACED IN RELATION TO THE MARSH AND MEAN LOW AND MEAN HIGH.
UM, A RETAINING WALL HAS ALREADY BEEN PLACED AROUND THE HOUSE AND AS YOU CAN SEE, THERE'S A LITTLE DISTANCE THERE BETWEEN THE RETAINING WALL AND WHAT IS BEING PROPOSED TODAY.
THIS IS SITTING ON THE DECK OF THE HOUSE LOOKING OUT TO THE NORTHWEST OVER THE EXPANSE OF THE MARSH ON THIS PROPERTY.
AND THIS IS LOOKING BACK THE OTHER WAY TOWARDS THE ISLAND FROM THAT DECK SHOWING THE MARSH IN THAT DIRECTION.
AND THIS IS THE OTHER WAY, AGAIN, LOOKING OUT TOWARDS, I GUESS, CAPTAIN'S COVE OR THE MAINLAND, UH, FROM THE PROPERTY.
AND, UH, THAT IS ALL I HAVE TO PRESENT.
BOARD ANY QUESTIONS? THIS PARTICULAR SUBJECT FOR MR. WATSON WHILE HE'S HERE.
SO, UH, UH, WE'RE GONNA FIND OUT RIGHT NOW, BUT I THINK YOU'RE CORRECT.
UH, THANK YOU VERY, VERY MUCH.
UH, WOULD YOU PLEASE APPROACH AND LET ME SWEAR YOU IN.
DO YOU FIRMLY SWEAR YOU TELL THE TRUTH, WHOLE TRUTH, NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH IN ALL MATTERS BEFORE THIS? I DO.
GIVE US YOUR VERSION OF WHAT'S GOING ON.
WELL, IT'S OBVIOUS THAT THIS, UM, THIS PORTION OF WETLANDS IS BEING IMPACTED.
A LOT HAS BEEN ERODED ALREADY AND, UH, THE HIGH TIDES ARE GOING UNDER THE HOUSE NOW.
THAT'S WHY THEY HAD TO PUT THE RETAINING WALL UP AS WELL AS THIS FEATURE, THIS, THIS, UH, STRUCTURAL KEEP THE WAVE ACTION FROM, UM, DAMAGING THE HOUSE AND THE MARSH.
AND THEN THEY HAVE A RETAINING WALL TO KEEP THE WATER FROM UNDER THE HOUSE.
IF Y'ALL HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, I'LL BE GLAD TO ANSWER 'EM.
WELL, I GOT ONE THAT I DIDN'T EVER THOUGHT ABOUT.
ARE YOU SAYING THAT THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN MEAN LOW WATER AND MEAN HIGHWAY IS FOUR FEET? IS THAT CORRECT? OVER THIS AREA? NO.
OBVIOUSLY
AS YOU CAN SEE THE CURVES THAT GO INWARD, UM, WE WILL COME STRAIGHT DOWN FROM THAT AND NOT FOLLOW THE EDGE OF THE MARSH PERFECTLY.
WE'LL COME OUT AND GO STRAIGHT DOWN FROM THOSE, UM, INDENTATIONS.
THE REASON I ASK THAT, I'M LOOKING AT THIS, I'M GUESS, BUT THE WATER IS DEEP THERE.
BECAUSE I WAS SORT OF CURIOUS.
I DON'T SEE, SO THE ENT IS ON THE, ON THE BOTTOM OF THE, UM, I, I READ THE SAME THING AND I KNEW IT WASN'T FOUR FEET.
SO THE DEPTH, THE HIGH OF IT IS FOUR FEET IN PLACES.
UNDERSTAND THAT DEPENDING ON THE, OF THE WATER, IT GOES FROM FOUR FEET TO PROBABLY A SIX INCHES, BUT YEAH.
SO THAT WAS JUST A REPRESENTATION.
QUESTIONS FROM MISS THAT LIST? IT'S JUST BUSTING UP THE ENERGY.
AND I, THE WAY BACK, I I, LIKE YOU SAID, WHEN YOU PUT THE FOREST DOWN THERE, UH, YOU'RE CHANGING DIFFERENTLY.
BUT THE MORE LIFE, MORE LIFE COMES THAT THERE TOO.
I MEAN, YOU'LL HAVE AER CATCHING ON IT.
I MEAN, YOU'LL HAVE EVERYTHING, YOU
[00:45:01]
KNOW WHAT I MEAN? IT'S, IT'S GONNA, IT'S GONNA, IT'S GONNA CATCH SOME SAND.I, I, I THINK, I MEAN, IT'S A CHANGE 'CAUSE NOT SOMETHING'S NOT THERE, BUT I DON'T THINK YOU HAVE TO MITIGATE FOR IT EITHER.
AND THAT'S WHAT I'M TRYING TO SAY.
WELL, THERE'S NO, THERE'S, I, AT ONE TIME I THOUGHT THERE WAS GRASS, THERE WAS MARSH IN, YOU KNOW, THAT WE WERE GONNA BE AFFECTING MARSH GRASS.
BUT WHAT I REALIZED IS THESE ARE JUST BIG CHUNKS.
THEY'RE COMING OFF OF THE, IT'S ERODING AS WE SPEAK.
AND IN BIG CHUNKS, GRASS ON 'EM, YOU'RE LOSING EM EVERY DAY.
BUT THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MITIGATION.
YOU GO, THERE'S GRASS, BUT IT'S REALLY JUST A HUNK OF MARSH SITTING THERE.
YOU GO BACK THE NEXT TIME AND IT'S GONE.
YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT SHE'S SAYING.
THEY'RE DISTURBING ANYTHING, UNFORTUNATELY.
LIKE WE ALL FACE, EVEN ON THE BAY SIDE, YOU GET A KING TIDE AND IT EBBING AND YOU SEE JUNKS FLOATING DOWN THE CREEK AND, AND, AND IT'S GOING UP UNDER THEIR HOUSE AND THEIR HOUSE IS ON PILINGS ABOUT THIS HIGH.
SO YOU CAN'T EVEN WALK UNDER THERE.
BUT THE WATER ON THESE KING TIDES ARE, YOU KNOW, THERE'S DEBRIS AND IT'S WET.
IT'S, IT'S JUST, UM, CAUSING MOISTURE IN THE HOUSE.
I APPRECIATE THE OWNER'S DOING THIS EXTRA WORK TO PROTECT ALL THAT MOISTURE.
ANY QUESTIONS SIR? YOU UNDERSTAND ABOUT, UH, NO MITIGATION? UH, JUST LOSING CHUNKS THAT NEED IT NEEDS IT NOW.
UH, ANY QUESTIONS? ALRIGHT, UH, MS. NUNLEY, UH, AND IT IS COSTONE, YOU'RE PUT IN THERE, RIGHT SIR? EXCUSE ME? IT IS COSTONE, YOU'RE PUT IN FOR YOUR RESENTMENT? YES.
UH, IF THERE'S NO, IS THERE ANYONE ELSE THAT WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR JPA? IF NOT, THEN I WILL CLOSE THE FLOOR AND OPEN IT TO PUBLIC COMMENT.
WE'LL CLOSE OPENED IT TO BOARD DISCUSSION IF YOU DON'T MIND.
UH, JEAN WAYNE, THIS IS IN YOUR WHEELHOUSE.
JUST, I JUST, I JUST TOTALLY AGREE THAT, LIKE YOU SAY, BECAUSE OF THE FETCH AND IT'S STILL GOING TO HAVE ISSUES AS WE WELL KNOW, BUT BUSTING THAT ENERGY UP IS GONNA BE A HELP.
UM, THERE'S STILL GONNA BE, 'CAUSE YOU'RE GOING BEHIND THERE AND WATER COMING, THERE'S STILL GONNA BE SOME EROSION.
BUT IT'S GONNA, LIKE I SAY, BUSTING UP THAT ENERGY.
AND I TOTALLY AGREE WITH THE, THE, UH, THE ASSESSMENT THAT THE 1800 SQUARE FOOT COVERED BY THE FORESTRY STONE IS A CONVERSION AND UH, UH, SO IT HAVE TO BE MITIGATED FOR.
AND I, I TOTALLY AGREE WITH THAT.
'CAUSE STUFF WILL BE GO AHEAD.
I, I'M SORRY, I DIDN'T MEAN TO INTERRUPT, BUT JUST ONE QUICK QUESTION ARE, DID, DID THE NEIGHBORS, UH, CONCUR WITH THIS CLAN? DID YOU HEAR ANYTHING FROM THAT? ALL THE NEIGHBORS AGREED.
THAT, THAT'S YOUR ONLY QUESTION.
AND, UH, UH, I THINK FRANKLY IT'S A GREAT PROJECT THAT IS, UH, LONG GONE, SHOULD HAVE BEEN DONE.
SO I THINK, UH, YOU AFFORD TO DO IT
IT'S, THAT'S THING'S, IT'S ALL ABOUT DOLLARS.
AND IF THEY'RE WILLING TO DO IT, THEN UH, FRANKLY, UH, I APPLAUD 'EM.
BUT WE SO FIND OUT, UH, SIR, ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR DISCUSSION FROM THE BOARD? WE ALL KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON.
UH, I'M GONNA CALL FOR A MOTION ON JPA, UH, 20 25 17 91.
MR. CHAIRMAN, I MAKE A MOTION.
WE APPROVE VMRC 2025 DASH 1791 AS PRESENTED WITH THE 1800 SQUARE FOOT OF THE NON VEGETATED WETLANDS COVERED BY CORY STONE.
AS, AS A CONVERSION YOU CONSIDER CONVERSION WITH NO, WITH NO MITIGATION REQUIRED.
ALRIGHT, UM, AS FOR A SECOND PLEASE, I'LL SECOND THAT MOTION.
UH, THE PERMITT IS APPROVED FOR TWO YEARS FROM TODAY'S DATE.
ALL PARTIES ARE ADVISED THAT THE FOREGOING DETERMINATION GRANTS NO AUTHORITY TO ENCROACH ON THE PROPERTY OF OTHERS.
ALL RIGHT, SIR, WE'RE MOVING ON TO UH, JPA 2025 DASH 2321.
THIS IS, UH, MR. SCOTT BANNING OF SALTY SPIT LLC CONSTRUCTION OF A 36 FOOT BULKHEAD WITH, UH, A 14 FOOT RETURN TWO FEET CHANNEL WHERE WE'RE GONNA GET READY AND GET INTO THAT IN JUST A LITTLE BIT AFTER PAUL'S.
SO, UH, MR. WATSON, WOULD YOU BRING US UP TO DATE
[00:50:01]
PLEASE ON THIS PARTICULAR ONE? UM, SO THERE'S BEEN A BULKHEAD ON THIS PROPERTY.IT LOOKS LIKE A LONG, LONG TIME.
IT IS EXTREMELY DETERIORATED, AT LEAST, WELL IN SOME PARTS IT'S COMPLETELY GONE.
IT'S UH, I CALL IT THE WATCH FREE CHANNEL.
I'M NOT EXACTLY SURE WHAT YOU CALL THAT WATER WAY.
I DIDN'T SEE ANYTHING NAMING IT ON THE MAPS.
UM, AND WITH THE TWO FEET CHANNEL WORK PLAN, IT'S 36 FEET OF NON VEGETATED WETLANDS.
UM, SO HERE IS WHAT, UH, WE'RE LOOKING AT AS FAR AS THE PROPERTY.
IT'S THIS LITTLE PIECE HERE THAT'S 36 FEET AND THIS IS THE 14 FEET HERE.
SO SALTY SPIT OWNS THIS PORTION.
UM, I'M NOT, I DON'T BELIEVE OUR AKA MAP SHOWS THAT PROPERTY LINE EXACTLY RIGHT.
I THINK IT'S A LITTLE BIT TO THE NORTH OF WHERE THAT GREEN LINE IS, BUT IT SALTY SPIT OWNS THE SOUTHERN PART OF THAT, UH, DECENT OF LAND JUTTING OUT THERE.
AND THEN PRESENTLY CAN'T REALLY TELL MUCH DIFFERENCE.
BUT YOU CAN TELL THAT THIS CORNER HERE IS PRETTY MUCH GONE SEEING THESE PICTURES COMING UP.
SO HERE ARE THE PLANS, UH, FOR THE BULKHEAD.
THIS IS THE OBVIOUSLY 36 FOOT SECTION AND THIS IS THE 14 FOOT RETURN.
UM, THIS, UH, IS AN EXISTING BULKHEAD THAT EXTENDS BACK WELL OVER A HUNDRED FEET.
UM, BUT AS OF RIGHT NOW THEY'RE JUST DOING THE 14 FOOT RETURN.
AND HERE'S THE CROSS SECTION OF THE PROPOSED BULKHEAD.
UM, THIS IS LOOKING TOWARDS THE SOUTH AND UM, IT JUST IS NOT EXISTENT AT THE CORNER THERE, AS YOU CAN SEE.
AND THAT'S THE CORNER OF, I GUESS WHAT WAS THE BULKHEAD.
LOOKING BACK OBVIOUSLY TOWARDS WA CREEK, THAT A HUNDRED FOOT OR MORE DISTANCE, UH, THEY'RE GOING BACK 14 FEET ALONG THAT LINE.
AND THIS IS A VIEW OF A PORTION OF THAT 14 FEET AND ANOTHER VIEW OF THE CORNER, UM, THE BEGINNING OF THE 14 FOOT RETURN AND ONE MORE VIEW LOOKING OUT TOWARDS THE BARRIER ISLANDS.
AND, UH, UM, AS FAR AS THE TWO FOOT CHANNEL WORD, UM, THERE HAVE BEEN SOME DISCUSSIONS, UH, WITH BMRC ABOUT THAT.
AND I GUESS THE DILEMMA HERE IS THAT SINCE THE BULKHEAD IS IN SUCH POOR CONDITION, THAT THERE WOULD BE A DIFFICULT TIME CONVINCING BMRC, THAT TWO FEET CHANNEL WORD IS NECESSARY IN THIS CASE.
UM, SO I, I TALKED WITH MR. HIGGINS ABOUT THIS, UH, LAST WEEK AND AGAIN THIS MORNING, MORNING ABOUT THE POSSIBILITY OF THIS BOARD IF IT WERE TO APPROVE A TWO FOOT CHANNEL WARD AND THEN VMRC WAS NOT TO APPROVE A TWO FOOT CHANNEL WARD, THEN HE'D BE BACK IN FRONT OF THIS BOARD AGAIN AFTER DISCUSSING THAT.
I BELIEVE HE'S AMENABLE TO KEEPING IN THE SAME SPOT THAT IT IS NOW.
THAT WOULD REDUCE, UH, THE NON VEGITATIVE WETLANDS IMPACT FROM 36 FEET DOWN TO 14 FEET.
BUT I'LL CERTAINLY LET HIM SPEAK TO THAT.
WELL, WE'RE GONNA HEAR THAT, BUT UH, OBVIOUSLY BEFORE YOU EVER START, SIR, THEY TRUMP US, WHATEVER THEY SAY GOES, WE JUST SITTING HERE.
ALRIGHT SIR, ANYTHING ELSE? ANY QUESTIONS FOR MR. WATSON BEFORE WE HEAR FROM THIS GENTLEMAN? ALRIGHT, THANK YOU SIR.
UH, REPRESENTING, UH, MR. BANNING IS MR. DAVID HIGGINS.
HIGGINS, WOULD YOU PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME? 'CAUSE I, I'M DAVID HIGGINS, REPRESENTATIVE FOR SCOTT BANNING AND SELFIE SPIT.
DO YOU AFFIRM OR SWEAR YOU TELL THE TRUTH, WHOLE TRUTH, NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH IN ALL MATTER BEFORE THIS BOARD? YES SIR.
WHY DON'T YOU START FROM THE BEGINNING AND GIVE US INSIGHT ON THE WAY YOU SEE IT.
UM, I MEAN, I AGREE WITH WHAT PAUL SAID.
THE, UM, THE OWNERS, THE, THEY'RE, THE ONLY REASON THEY'RE FIXING THIS PART IS THEY, THEY HAD A DREDGING COMPANY COME IN TO DREDGE THE, UM, CHANNEL AND, UM, THE, I CAN'T REMEMBER WHAT THE BAY'S CALLED.
AND UM, THEY SORT OF DID A LOT OF DAMAGE THAT THIS PART DETERIORATED MORE.
AND SO THEY'RE DOING THIS PART BECAUSE THE DREDGE COMPANY IS GONNA REIMBURSE 'EM AND THEN THEY WANT TO SEE HOW IT GOES AND THEN THEY'LL TALK ABOUT
[00:55:01]
THEIR, THE OTHER PART AND SEE WHAT THEIR OPTIONS ARE.UM, AND WHAT'S BEEN HAP IS WE WERE TRYING TO, WE JUST ASKED FOR THE TWO FEET BECAUSE IT WOULD BE, YOU KNOW, A LITTLE EASIER TO DO AND WE WERE ALSO CONCERNED ABOUT THE DROP OFF INTO THE, INTO THE CREEK.
UM, IF WE TORE THIS LITTLE BIT OUT, WHICH IS HELPING STABILIZE, THEN IT CAUSES MORE EROSION.
BUT O BUT WHAT, WHAT'S HAPPENED IS IT'S ALREADY GOT TO A POINT WHERE ON THE OUTSIDE OF THIS BULKHEAD, UM, IS ENOUGH RUN OFF LIKE EROSION THAT IF WE DO TEAR IT OUT, WE ARE OKAY.
UM, WITH SORT OF DISTURBING EVERYTHING.
IT'S SORT OF LIKE DIGGING UP AND YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE GONNA FIND.
SO WE WERE, THE IDEA WAS TO NOT DISTURB IT AND, BUT IF IT'S, YOU KNOW, LIKE WE SAID, IF THE VMRC WANTS TO SEE THAT, THEN THAT'S, WE'LL WE'LL GO TO THAT EXTRA EFFORT TO REMOVE THAT.
WE'RE GONNA FIND OUT RIGHT NOW AND UH, DO I UNDERSTAND YOU CORRECTLY IF, UH, INSTEAD OF GOING BACK THROUGH THIS TO HAVE IT TWO FOOT CHANNEL WHERE, WHICH YOU MAY OR MAY NOT BE ABLE TO DO, YOU'RE WILLING TO JUST FOREGO THAT RIGHT NOW AND PUT IT IN THE SAME FOOTPRINT? IS THAT WHAT I'M HEARING? YES.
AND THE ONLY CONCERN WE HAVE AND, AND THIS WALL IS, IS NOT A A, YOU KNOW, IT'S BEEN PATCHED, IT'S BEEN REPAIRED FOR PROBABLY 50 YEARS.
IT'S NOT A GOOD STRAIGHT LINE.
UM, YOU CAN SEE, UM, SEE THERAN, SEE THE TALL PILING TO THE LEFT OF THE CORAN, YOU CAN ALMOST MAKE OUT AN ORANGE TAG.
I I PUT IT THAT'S UM, WHERE WE WERE GONNA GO TO, WHICH I THINK THAT'S PART OF THE EXISTING BULKHEAD, BUT THE, THE MAIN PART OF IT DOESN'T GO OUT TO THERE.
SO THAT'S, THAT PILING IS WHERE WE WERE GONNA OH, I SEE.
UM, BUT, BUT SO THAT SIDE, IT HAS SOME FLEXIBILITY UP THE OTHER END, THE NEIGHBORING PROPERTY HAS AN EXISTING VINYL BULKHEAD AND SO BEST PRACTICES AND EVERYTHING IS TO ATTACH OUR BULKHEAD STRAIGHT TO THEIR BULKHEAD, WHICH THEIR COMPATIBLE.
AND SO FOR THE OTHER END TO SORT OF NOT CAUSE PROBLEMS OF EROSION BETWEEN THE TWO IS.
SO THE OTHER END IS WHERE WE WOULD LIKE TO, YOU KNOW, CONNECT IN AND I WENT BACK OUT AFTER TALKING TO PAUL LAST WEEK AND LOOKED AT IT AND THE EXISTING BULKHEAD, IT'S A MATTER OF INCHES OF THOSE TWO ALIGNING.
SO TO PUT, WE COULD, YOU KNOW, TO PUT OUR CORRUGATED SHEET CONNECTING INTO THAT WOULD BE OUR SORT OF OUR ONLY LIKE BASELINE OF SOMETHING.
IT IT'S LIKE ALMOST, IT'S LIKE IT NEVER WORKS TO LIKE PUT IT BACK SIX INCHES 'CAUSE YOU CAN'T TURN A SIX INCH CORNER IF THAT MAKES ANY SENSE WITH THE SHEET.
YOU USUALLY HAVE TO DO A FULL SHEET.
SO, UM, SO THAT, THAT'S THE ONLY THING I WANT TO AVOID THAT WEAK LINK FOR FUTURE, YOU KNOW.
AND YOU HAVE ADJOINING PROPERTY OWNER'S CONSENT AND EVERYTHING'S FINE YES.
IS THAT CORRECT? WE, 'CAUSE WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THEIR
ANY QUESTIONS? I JUST WANNA GO, BECAUSE IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY THAT THAT THE, THAT FINAL BULKHEAD, IT ACTUALLY COMES IN LIKE THREE FEET OR SO, IF I REMEMBER IT ACTUALLY HAS, YES.
SO IT, IT, IT'S, IT, IT GOES EAST TO WEST ALL THE WAY BACK AND THEN IT COMES AND IT DOES IT THERE IT MIGHT BE YES, BETWEEN THREE AND FIVE FEET THERE, THEIRS TURNS, THEY HAVE A LITTLE ACCESS WALKWAY THAT'S PRETTY MUCH GONE.
SO IT COMES BASICALLY TO THE PROPERTY LINE AND STOPS.
SO WOULDN'T IT BE ADVANTAGEOUS JUST TO LINE IT UP WITH THAT LITTLE YES, AND THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING.
THAT'S WHAT, THAT'S THE ONLY THING I'M AT.
I WOULD ASK FOR THE, FROM VMRC, EVEN IF, IF WE HAVE TO ANGLE THE BULK, YOU KNOW, IT'S, BUT AT THAT POINT IT'S THE, THE WHALER OF THE, OF OUR BULKHEAD IS RESTING AGAINST THAT.
IT, IT DOESN'T REALLY ENC INCRE.
I'M NEVER SURE WHERE THE BASELINE OF ENCROACHMENT IS.
IS IT THE SHEET PILE OR IS IT THE, THE PILINGS? 'CAUSE OUR PILING WOULD BE OUTSIDE OF THAT OUR NEW PILING, BUT THE SHEET PILE WOULD BE IN LINE, WHICH IS WHERE OUR WHALER, DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? MAKES SENSE.
BUT I THINK YOU'LL FIND THE ANSWER IS EXTERIOR PILING OR WHATEVER IT IS, IS WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE.
UH, AND I NEED ADVICE IF I'M WRONG, BUT I DON'T THINK I AM.
THE QUESTION IS, UH, WHAT DETERMINES UH, GOING OUT CHANNEL WORD? UH, YEAH.
AND IF WE DECIDE TO DO THAT SEEMS LIKE A GOOD WAY OF GOING IT.
BUT DO WE HAVE THE NUMBERS ON THE UNVEGETATED WETLANDS THAT WOULD BE IMPACTED IF WE DO IT THAT WAY? I GUESS THAT'S WHAT THE QUESTION I HAVE.
WELL, YEAH, I MEAN I THINK SO.
I MEAN IT WOULD BE ESSENTIALLY IF YOU'RE COUNTING THE PILING, IT'D BE THE SQUARE FOOTAGE OF IT WOULD BE THE SA ESSENTIALLY THE SAME WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.
THAT'S WHAT I'M TRYING TO GET AT.
AND THE OTHER QUESTIONS, UH, WE'VE GOT SOME OTHER QUESTIONS FOR MS. GORMAN, BUT ANY QUESTIONS FOR MR. HI I I GUESS MAYBE ONE QUICK ONE.
YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT FIXING THE OTHER PORTION.
'CAUSE WE OBVIOUSLY SEE IS THAT SOMETHING YOU THINK YOU'RE GONNA PUT ANOTHER BULKHEAD IN OR MAYBE A REVETMENT THAT WELL, THAT THAT'S THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT, UM, YEAH, THEY, THEY MIGHT DO A LIVING SHORELINE AND, AND THE, THE PROPERTY
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ADJACENT TO IT IS THE NATURE CONSERVANCY.SO THAT THERE ALSO MIGHT BE DISCUSSIONS WITH THEM ABOUT HOW TO DO SOMETHING BECAUSE THE PROBLEM WITH THEM DOING, UH, LIKE RIP WRAP OR, OR, OR LIVING SHORELINE IS THE GRADE TO COME BACK.
THEIR PROPERTY'S NOT VERY WIDE.
SO IT'S SORT OF, SO IT ALMOST, IT'S THEY, THEY JUST WANT TO GO SORT OF DECIDE FOR THE FUTURE AND THAT'S WHAT THEY COULDN'T DECIDE.
BUT THIS PART, THEY ABSOLUTELY NEED TO STABILIZE THIS CORNER AND THE, IT'S BEING, IT'S BASICALLY THE DREDGING COMPANIES TAKING FAULT FORWARD.
SO ALL THE NEIGHBORS AREN'T CONCURRENCE, SO WE NEED TO DO WHAT WE HAVE.
AND SO DOES THIS HAVE AN EFFECT WITH THE 14 FOOT RETURN? NO, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TWO DIFFERENT ANIMALS BECAUSE THAT, THE WAY THE CHANNEL WRAPS AROUND, IT GOES BACK PROBABLY 40, 50 FEET BEFORE IT TURNS SOUTH.
SO THE, THE PART WHERE YOU WOULD EVEN CONSIDER IT IS, IS FURTHER BACK FROM, WE SORT OF AT, AT THAT POINT THE BULKHEADS FAILING BACK PAST IT, BUT IT'S NOT AS BAD AND IT'S ALSO ONLY LIKE A TWO FOOT EXPOSURE OF BULKHEAD AS OPPOSED TO HERE IT'S, YOU KNOW, IT'S AN EIGHT FOOT EXPOSURE.
SO THAT DESK, THIS IS THE SORT OF WEAK THAT THEY WANT TO GET IT DONE AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR THIS GENTLEMAN? NO, DON'T LEAVE US SIR.
UM, MS. GORMAN, UH, WE ALL UNDERSTAND THAT THERE MAY BE AN ISSUE WITH TWO FEET CHANNEL WORD.
HE'S, UH, GOT NO ISSUE WITH REPLACING THE FOOTPRINT WHERE IT IS.
SO EVERYBODY'S ON THE SAME PAGE AND HAPPY.
UM, SO WHAT WE WOULD NEED IS REVISED DRAWING, SHOWING THAT IT WAS, THAT IT IS NOT GOING TO FEET CHANNEL WORK.
'CAUSE WE, WE ALWAYS NEED A CLEAR JUSTIFICATION AS TO WHY YOU NEED TO ENCROACH OVER STATE OWNED BOTTOM.
AND THIS ONE WITH THE BULKHEAD BEING IN SUCH A SHAPE, IT WASN'T REALLY CLEAR TO US.
BUT IF HE'S GONNA GO IN THE SAME FOOTPRINT HE NEEDS NEW DRAWINGS, WE WOULD NEED THAT FOR OUR REVIEW.
YOU GOT THAT COVERED? YES SIR.
ANY QUESTIONS FOR MS. GORMAN? THAT WAS THE ONLY THING, UH, THAT, THAT SHE HAD ISSUE WITH AND THAT'S ALREADY TAKEN CARE OF.
EVERYBODY AGREE WITH THAT? THANK YOU MA'AM.
UM, IS THERE ANYONE ELSE THAT'D LIKE TO SPEAK ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR JPA? NOT, I'M GONNA CLOSE THE FLOOR OPEN, BUT PUBLIC COMMENT, CLOSE THE FLOOR OPENED TO BOARD DISCUSSION.
I GUESS MY ONLY CONCERN IS THAT IF WE GO WITH THE IN LINE, DO WE HAVE ACCURATE NUMBERS FOR THE IMPACT TO UNVEGETATED WETLANDS? IS THAT SOMETHING WE CAN CALCULATE OR GET REASONABLY CLOSE? UH, WE DID CHECK THAT IN.
GEORGE, THIS GONNA BE YOUR DEAL IN YOUR BACKYARD OR NOT? YEAH.
UH, SO 14 FEET, UH, SAME FOOTPRINT.
UM, AND WHERE IT TIES INTO THE NEIGHBOR, THAT ANGLE TOO ON THE, ON THE NEW DRAWINGS AND FANS WHERE THAT TIES INTO THE NEIGHBOR THAT'S NOT DRAW THAT WAY NOW, BUT COME MAKE IT DRAWS AND I GUESS THE RETURN 14 FOOT TURN, WHAT YOU DO IS JUST, BUT IT'S, IT'S 14 FEET.
UH, IT'S SAME FOOTPRINT AND IT'S TIED IN LIKE TIES INTO THE NEIGHBOR, THE NEW DRAWING SAND WHERE IT TIES INTO THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
UH, SO ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? ANY OTHER DISCUSSION FROM THE BOARD? IF NOT, I'D LIKE TO CALL FOR A MOTION PLEASE.
I'LL MAKE A MOTION THAT THE APPLICATION BE APPROVED WITH THE MODIFICATIONS OF 14 FOOT.
UH, PUT IT IN THE SAME FOOTPRINT, DO DRAWINGS AND NEW DRAWINGS TO INDICATE THAT ANYTHING ELSE WE NEED.
UH, TYING IT INTO THE NEIGHBOR'S PROPERTY TO THEIR, UH, AND IT'S TIED IN PROPERLY TO THE NEIGHBOR'S ADJOINING BULKHEAD.
EVERYBODY UNDERSTAND THAT MOTION? ALRIGHT, I CALL FOR A SECOND PLEASE.
SECOND CALL FOR A VOTE PLEASE.
UH, PERMIT'S APPROVED FOR TWO YEAR PERIOD FROM TODAY'S DATE.
ALL PARTIES ARE ADVISED THAT THE FOREGOING DETERMINATION GRANTS NO AUTHORITY TO ENCROACH ON THE PROPERTY OF OTHERS.
AND IN THIS CASE THAT'S FAIRLY IMPORTANT.
SO YOU'VE GOT THAT COVERED NEW DRAWINGS WITH CLAIRE AND WE ARE GOOD TO GO.
UH, PAUL, WHAT ELSE YOU GOT FOR US? UM, WE HAVE TWO J JPA FOR THE JANUARY MEETING, WHICH
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WE CAN HAND OUT AS YOU LEAVE.UH, ONE OF 'EM IS THE LONG AWAITED CEDAR ISLAND RESTORATION PROJECT.
AND THERE WILL BE A TRIP FROM THE VIMS FACILITY IN
AND WE DO NEED A, I'M NOT SURE WHAT THEY CALL, I FORGOT THE NAME.
THEY CALL 'EM SOME TYPE OF SUIT THAT THEY WILL PROVIDE FOR COLD WEATHER.
SO WE NEED A SUIT SIZE IF ANYBODY DOES WANT TO GO
I THOUGHT YOU'D BE COMING YOUR SHORTS MAN.
ANY OTHER QUESTION FOR MR. WATSON ON THE UPCOMING, THEY'RE GINGER, I ASSUME IS GONNA HAND THEM OUT WHEN WE LEAVE ON THE JPA FOR NEXT MONTH.
UH, THE NEXT MEETING DATE IS, UH, JANUARY 22ND.
UM, ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR MR. WATSON? ALRIGHT, MR. PAMED, DO YOU APPROACH, AND I GUESS I NEED TO SWEAR YOU IN.
DO YOU AFFIRM OR SWEAR YOU TELL THE TRUTH, WHOLE TRUTH, NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH IN ALL MATTERS BEFORE THIS BOARD? I DO.
LEE PAMED, DEPUTY COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR FOR COMMUNITY AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT.
FIRST OF ALL, I JUST WANTED TO WISH YOU ALL ON BEHALF OF THE COMMUNITY AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT STAFF.
MERRY CHRISTMAS AND A HAPPY NEW YEAR.
I HOPE IT'S GOING TO BE A HEALTHY AND PROSPEROUS ONE FOR ALL OF YOU.
UM, A COUPLE OF ITEMS. NUMBER ONE, WE ARE HOLDING INTERVIEWS FOR ENVIRONMENTAL PLANNER, SO WE HOPE TO GET THAT, UH, UH, YOU KNOW, UH, GET A HIRE HERE IN JANUARY AT SOME POINT.
UM, I DID WANNA MAKE A, UH, ONE POINT ABOUT THE CEDAR ISLAND PROJECT.
UH, THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS LAST NIGHT WAS, UH, IN THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR'S REPORT, UH, BRIEFED THAT THAT PROJECT HAS RECEIVED $5 MILLION IN FUNDING.
HOWEVER, THAT ONLY GETS THEM HALFWAY TO THE 10 MILLION NEEDED AND THEY CANNOT START THE PROJECT UNTIL THEY HAVE THE FULL 10 MILLION.
SO THAT IS JUST A, A, A ONE POINT OF ADDITIONAL BACKGROUND ON THE CEDAR ISLAND PROJECT.
SO THE JPA WILL NOT BE HEARD IF THEY DON'T HAVE THE 10 MIL BY JANUARY 22ND.
NO, YOU, YOU CAN STILL HOLD THE JPA.
IT'S JUST THAT THE, IT'S JUST THAT THE FUNDING IS STILL IN IN PROGRESS.
IT'S GONNA BE A MARKED, UH, CREATION IN THAT AND THAT ANYTHING THEY'RE DOING, UM, THE GENERAL IDEAS ARE GONNA PROVIDE A LOT OF FILL BEHIND THE ISLAND FOR IT TO BE A BACKSTOP FOR THE, FOR THE, I GUESS, WESTWARD MIGRATION OF THE BARRIER ISLAND.
I AM QUITE SURE THERE'LL BE SOME MARSH CREATED AS PART OF THAT.
WELL, IN, IN TERMS OF, IN TERMS OF MARSH, THE, THE, THE, THE CONCEPT THERE IS TO IS TO INCREASE THE AMOUNT OF VEGETATION, UM, UH, ON THE OPPOSITE SIDE OF THAT ISLAND FROM THE OCEAN.
BECAUSE WHAT THEY HAVE FOUND IS THAT VEGETATION ON THE BACKSIDE IS AN EFFECTIVE, UH, IS AN EFFECTIVE DETERRENT TO EROSION.
AND IF YOU RECALL SEVERAL YEARS AGO, THERE WAS A BLOWOUT, UH, IN THAT, UH, IN THAT PART OF CEDAR ISLAND THAT, UH, THAT HAS SINCE FILLED BACK IN.
AND THAT IS NOW THE OPPORTUNITY TO TRY TO, UH, PRESERVE THAT.
WHY THE, WHY THE QUESTION IS IF CREATE MARSH VEGETATION, WE HAVE A HUNDRED SOME THOUSAND DOLLARS AN HOUR THAT YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT I'M SAYING? STILL WON'T CUT IT.
OH, I KNOW, BUT I MEAN IT'S, YOU CAN SAY THAT.
BUT LET'S, IT'S, EVERYTHING'S A HELP.
YOU UNDERSTAND? I'M SAYING, I MEAN, I MEAN, IF THEY'RE GONNA CREATE MARSH YEAH, YEAH.
I, I DON'T, YOU KNOW, GOT A HUNDRED SOME THOUSAND FROM THE UNDERSTAND WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE, UH, IN OUR ACCOUNT.
UH, IT'S WHAT IT'S ABOUT, UH, WITHIN REASON.
SO MARSH CREATION, IT MAY OR MAY NOT APPLY.
I MEAN, CASE HELP TO ME IF, I MEAN, LIKE I SAID, STILL HUNDRED THOUSAND MIGHT, MIGHT HELP AND, AND, UH, SOMETHING YOU BLOW OFF EITHER, YOU KNOW? RIGHT, RIGHT.
SO, BUT UH, UH, THAT CONCLUDES MY REMARKS.
I JUST WANTED TO, AGAIN, WISH YOU ALL MERRY CHRISTMAS AND TO JUST GIVE YOU THAT LITTLE PIECE OF INFORMATION.
WE APPRECIATE YOU STEPPING UP.
UM, I'D LIKE TO TURN IT BACK OVER FOR COMMENTS FROM THE BOARD.
I'D LIKE TO SAY, UH, THANK EVERYONE VERY, VERY MUCH.
HOPE YOU HAVE A GREAT HOLIDAY VICE CHAIR.
THANKS FOR COVERING ME WHILE I WAS OUT, UH, DURING HAVING COCKTAILS, UH, LAST MONTH.
ANY COMMENTS AROUND THE TABLE? YOU DONE A VERY GOOD JOB TOO.
WHAT DID HE SAY? ARE WE CLOSED? THAT'S IT.