* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. IT'S 10 O'CLOCK. [00:00:01] I CALL THE MEETING TO ORDER. WELCOME TO [Wetlands Board on April 23, 2026.] THE APRIL, 2026 MEETING OF THE AKIMA COUNTY WETLANDS BOARD. WHILE GOING THROUGH INTRODUCTORY REMARKS, PLEASE TAKE THE TIME TO SILENCE. TURN OFF ALL CELL DEVICES. THE BOARD CONSISTS OF FIVE MEMBERS. APPROVAL OF ALL PERMITS REQUIRES A MAJORITY VOTE OR THREE YAY VOTES. TODAY WE HAVE ALL FIVE MEMBER PRESENCE. WE HAVE A QUORUM FROM MY RIGHT TO LEFT. MR. GICK VICE CHAIR, MR. WARD, MR. TAYLOR AND MR. BADGER. I'M T LEE BIRD QUORUM IS ESTABLISHED WITH A, UH, MINIMUM OF THREE BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT. UH, IF I MAY INTRODUCE OUR STAFF AND GUEST PRESENT, WE HAVE, UH, MS. GINGER HARMON, WHO IS ADMINISTRATIVE ASSISTANT, MR. PAUL WATSON, DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF CODE ADMINISTRATION. UH, MS. MS. CLAIRE GORMAN, GENERAL MARINE RESOURCES COMMISSION, VMRC. AND MR. PBIT CAN'T BE HERE. HE HAS ANOTHER MEETING. THE WETLANDS BOARD IS AWARE OF AND, UH, COMPLIES AS CLOSELY AS POSSIBLE TO THE OBJECTIVES OF THE VIRGINIA MARINE RESOURCES COMMISSION POLICY OF NO NET LOSS. ALL PERSONS SPEAKING FOR THIS BOARD WILL BE SWORN IN. ALRIGHT. UM, SO IF WE WILL PLEASE, UH, LET'S, UH, TALK ABOUT THE AGENDA. I HOPE EVERYONE HAS HAD A COPY OF THE AGENDA I'VE HAD IN MIND FOR SOME TIME. UH, HAS EVERYBODY HAD A CHANCE TO LOOK IT OVER? ANY QUESTIONS, COMMENTS, THEN I ASK FOR A MOTION TO ACCEPT THE AGENDA. SECOND, MR. CHAIRMAN. THANK YOU. A SECOND PLEASE. ALRIGHT, AND VOTE. AYE. AYE. WE HAVE ACCEPTED THE AGENDA MINUTES, UM, AFTER SOME MINOR CHANGES. THANK YOU, SIR. UM, WE HAVE, UM, WOULD APPEAR TO BE CLEAR MINUTES FROM THE MARCH 24TH MEETING. HAS EVERYONE HAD TIME TO LOOK OVER THE MINUTES FROM THE MARCH MEETING? ANY QUESTIONS, COMMENTS? AS FOR A MOTION TO ACCEPT MR. CHAIRMAN, MAKE A MOTION TO ACCEPT THE MINUTES. THANK YOU, SIR. SECOND, PLEASE. AYE. THANK YOU, SIR. VOTE PLEASE. AYE, MINUTES ARE IN THE BOOK. I ABSTAIN. I WASN'T HERE. MM. ALRIGHT, WE'RE GONNA MOVE ON. AND OUR FIRST TOPIC IS OLD BUSINESS NU NUMBER FOUR. UM, THE FIRST SUBJECT IS 4.01, WHICH IS, UH, MR. MICHAEL PULASKI THAT I THINK WE ALL KNOW. MR. WATSON, MAY I SWEAR YOU IN, PLEASE? DO YOU AFFIRM OR SWEAR YOU TELL THE TRUTH, WHOLE TRUTH, NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH IN ALL MATTERS BEFORE THIS BOARD? I DID. THANK YOU, SIR. WOULD YOU, UH, TELL US PROBABLY WHAT WE ALREADY KNOW, BUT ANYTHING THAT IS CURRENT, UM, SLIDES, PUT 'EM OUT OF ORDER, BUT, UH, I DID VISIT THE SITE LAST WEEK AND TAKE TWO QUICK PICTURES. UM, IT DOES APPEAR AS IF, UH, SOME GRASS IS GROWING BACK, BUT THE GRAVEL HAS NOT BEEN REMOVED AND DOES NOT APPEAR ANY EFFORTS HAVE BEEN MADE AT RESTORATION. UM, OF COURSE, PICTURES CAN SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES AS TO WHAT HAS BEEN DONE OR HADN'T BEEN DONE. UH, THAT'S, UH, AS YOU'RE LOOKING OUT TOWARDS SHIITE BAY, THAT'S TO THE RIGHT AND THAT'S TO THE LEFT. I GUESS THIS GRASS AREA IN THE MIDDLE YOU CAN, IS VISIBLE IN BOTH PICTURES. UM, YES SIR, BUT THIS IS THE AFFECTED AREA. UM, I'LL ALSO REPORT THAT MR. PULASKI, IN ADDITION TO THE FILINGS THAT I'VE, UH, PRESENTED TO THE BOARD THAT HE'S MADE ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR VIOLATION, HE ALSO SUBMITTED A, UH, EVERYBODY GET THIS, EVERYBODY KNOW? YES. UM, A, UH, I, I, I GUESS HE WANTS, I GUESS THE BEST WAY TO PUT IT, HE WANTS THE BOARD TO INVESTIGATE ON EVERYTHING THAT'S HAPPENED WITH THE GABBY AND WALLS. AND I RESPONDED TO HIM THAT I DID NOT, UH, BELIEVE THERE WAS ANY BASIS FOR A SWORN COMPLAINT BECAUSE NUMBER ONE, THE GABBY AND WALLS ARE NOW IN, UH, OUTSIDE THE BOARD'S JURISDICTION. YES, SIR. SIR. AND WHILE THEY WERE ORIGINALLY PERMITTED BY THE BOARD, I SAW NO EVIDENCE THAT THEY WERE CONSTRUCTED IMPROPERLY. AND THIS WAS DATING BACK DECADES AGO. UM, AND, AND THERE'S NO EVIDENCE THEY WERE CONSTRUCTED IMPROPERLY OR THERE WAS ANY VIOLATION OF THAT PERMIT AND INVITED HIM TO COME TO THE BOARD DURING OPEN SESSION IF HE THOUGHT THAT I WAS INCORRECT OR HE HAD A BASIS FOR SOME TYPE OF VIOLATION HE WANTED TO PRESENT TO THE BOARD. AND HE'S NOT HERE AND HE'S NOT HERE. HE, HE DID IN AT LEAST ONE OF THE EMAILS THAT I GOT, UM, HE INDICATED THAT HE WOULD, UH, NOT BE ON THE EASTERN SHORE, NOT IN CAPTAINS COVE UNTIL SOMETIME MID-MAY. [00:05:01] UM, THAT'S WHEN HE WAS COMPLAINING ABOUT THE APRIL 15 DEADLINE. AND, AND HE DID INDICATE TO ME HE WAS NOT GONNA BE BACK. HE COULD NOT DO IT BY THE DEADLINE BECAUSE HE PHYSICALLY WOULD NOT BE BACK ON THE SHORE. UM, AND SO OBVIOUSLY HE HASN'T COMPLIED WITH WHAT THE BOARD HAS ORDERED HIM TO DO. UM, I, WELL, OBVIOUSLY I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT HE'S PLANNING TO DO WHEN HE GETS BACK, WHETHER HE'S PLANNING TO COMPLY OR NOT. WELL, UH, FIRST OF ALL, HE'S HAD MORE TIME THAN ANYONE ELSE I CAN REMEMBER ON A PROJECT SINCE I'VE BEEN DOING THIS. AND SECONDLY, UM, I HOPE HE'S, WELL, I HOPE HE'S NOT IN THE HOSPITAL, BUT IF HE'S JUST OUTTA TOWN THEN UM, HE PROBABLY SHOULD HAVE BEEN HERE OR HAD A REPRESENTATIVE HERE IF HE WAS THAT, UH, INTENT ON PROVING THAT WE'RE WRONG. ANYWAY, UH, WHAT ELSE DO YOU HAVE ON THIS PARTICULAR SUBJECT? THAT'S ALL. ALRIGHT, UM, MR. CHAIR, JUST OF CURIOSITY, DID HE ASK FOR AN EXTENSION OF DEADLINE FROM APRIL 15TH? I MEAN, I, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT, YOU KNOW, WE CAN MAYBE DISCUSS A LITTLE BIT. UM, I GUESS I COULD CHARITABLY SAY THAT HE ASKED, HE, HE OBJECTED TO THE BOARD, UH, IMPOSING THE DEADLINE BY EMAILING ME SAYING HE DIDN'T AGREE WITH IT. UM, I MEAN, HE'S DEFINITELY INDICATED THAT HE, UH, COULD NOT ABIDE BY IT BECAUSE HE WAS NOT GONNA BE HERE AND THAT HE NEVER AGREED TO IT IN THE FIRST PLACE. UM, SO THAT'S, I MEAN, HE, OKAY. I MEAN, HE, HE HAS BEEN IN COMMUNICATION WITH ME, BUT OB OBVIOUSLY, IT ALSO LOOKS LIKE HE HASN'T DONE ANYTHING FOR THE LAST HOWEVER MANY MONTHS, ALMOST A YEAR. I SO AGREE WITH MR. THE CHAIR HERE REGARDS TO THE SITUATION, BUT OBVIOUSLY WE WANT SOMETHING DONE. WOULD IT BE JUST TO ASK HIM WHAT TIMEFRAME IS HE LOOKING AT? MAYBE? I MEAN, I, WELL, I I GUESS WHAT I'M GETTING, HE HASN'T SAID HE'S NOT GOING TO DO IT, IT'S JUST A TIMEFRAME OR AM I MISTAKEN ABOUT THAT? UM, THAT IS CORRECT. HE, HE IS, UH, I'D SAY THE SUM TOTAL OF THE COMMUNICATIONS WITH HIM, UH, ARE NOT EXACTLY POSITIVE IN, IN THINK IN THINKING HE'S GONNA DO IT, BUT, BUT HE HAS NEVER ACTUALLY SAID, I AM NOT GOING TO DO IT. TE TELL US, PLEASE, UH, WHAT OUR OPTIONS ARE. LET'S ASSUME FOR THE MOMENT RIGHT NOW, LET'S JUST SAY FOR THE MOMENT, I DON'T THINK HE'S GONNA DO ANYTHING. UH, EDUCATE US, PLEASE. UM, SO IT'S, UH, SECTION 1 0 2 4 0 1. UH, SUBSECTION C ANY PERSON WHO, UH, VIOLATES AN ORDER OF THE WETLANDS BOARD, UM, IS GUILTY OF A CLASS ONE MISDEMEANOR EVERY DAY. THE VIOLATION CONTINUES AS A SEPARATE OFFENSE. UM, AND THEN THERE'S A LITTLE BIT OF A STRANGE SECTION. UM, WELL, IT DOES SAY THAT WITHOUT LIMITING THE REMEDIES WHICH MAY BE OBTAINED UNDER THIS CHAPTER, ANY PERSON WHO VIOLATES ANY PROVISION OF THIS CHAPTER, UM, OR FAILS TO OBEY A WETLANDS BOARD ORDER, UH, SHALL UPON FINDING OF THE CIRCUIT COURT BE ASSESSED A CIVIL PENALTY NOT TO EXCEED, UH, $25,000 A DAY. AND, UM, AND, AND, AND, AND, AND THIS IS THE STRANGE PART IS THAT IT ALSO SAYS THAT WITH THE CONSENT OF THE PERSON WHO VIOLATED THE ORDER, THE BOARD CAN ASSESS A PENALTY UP TO $10,000. YES, SIR. AND I, THE ONLY WAY THAT MAKES SENSE IS IF SOMEBODY DOES NOT, YOU KNOW, IS FEARFUL OF GOING TO CIRCUIT COURT, THEY COULD APPEAR AND CONSENT TO A YES, YOUR HONOR, LESSER PENALTY. SO IT, IT SEEMS LIKE THE ONLY TWO OPTIONS ARE EITHER, WELL, THERE ARE SEVERAL OPTIONS, BUT IT'S, BUT THE ESCALATING OPTIONS ARE TO REFER IT OVER, UH, TO THE COMMONWEALTH'S ATTORNEY TO GO TO COURT OR OFFER MR. PULASKI A LESSER FINE THAT HE WOULD CONSENT TO. OBVIOUSLY, WE COULD ALSO GIVE HIM ADDITIONAL TIME TO SEE IF HE DOES ANYTHING WHEN HE GETS BACK IN MID BAY. MR. CHAIRMAN, UM, I, I CALLED PAUL MATTER, HE JUST LEFT THE PLACE. 20 MINUTES OF THIS. THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I, WHAT I, AND I THINK HANK HAD THE SAME THING ABOUT THIS. THIS FIX IS SO EASY. I KNOW WE TOLD HIM TO PLANT, I MEAN, TO, TO FILL AND PLANT AND THE REAL WORLD. THIS AREA IS DYNAMIC, BUT IT'S ALSO, IF, IF ONLY IF YOU GOT ANY PICTURES OF HIS NEIGHBOR'S GRASS IS THE, THE GRASS GROWING ON ITS OWN. AS YOU CAN SEE, THAT'S A LOT OF THE 10 BY 10 AREA. TO ME, IT JUST TAKES [00:10:01] THE RAKING, NOT EVEN THE FILLING OF IT. AND REPLANTING TO ME, IT JUST, IF YOU RAKE OUT THE, THE SMALL ROCKS, IT'LL GROW. AND THAT'S, I MEAN, LIKE I SAID, THAT'S REALLY WHAT I THOUGHT WHEN I CALLED YOU. YOU KNOW WHAT I'M SAYING? YOU JUST LEFT THERE AND YOU SAID, YEAH, I GOT A LOT OF GROWTH. HE'S DOING NOTHING. UH, I AGREE WITH YOU, IT COMES, BUT WHAT I'M SAYING IS, BUT THE, THE WHO WAS THE ORIGINAL CONTRACTOR ON THIS, UH, JEFF BROWN, HE'S THE ONE WHO HAD ALL THE PROBLEMS WITH DOING THE WORK IN CAPTAINS, GO WITHOUT PERMITS. AND HE, I MEAN, LIKE I SAID, IN THE REAL WORLD, THE FIX IS SO EASY. AND LIKE I SAID, I KNOW WE TOLD 'EM TO FILL AND PLANT, BUT IN THE REAL WORLD, ALL THAT, ALL THAT'S FINE, FINE STONES IS JUST GOTTA BE RIGGED OUT AND YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT A FOUR HOUR JOB. LET'S, LET'S, UH, DO THIS THE WAY WE SHOULD DO IT, WHICH IS HOLD BACK FOR COMMENTS. BUT, UH, WE TALKED ABOUT IT. AND, UH, UH, ONE LAST THING BEFORE WE, UH, OPEN IT, WE CONTINUE TO GIVE TIME AND TIME AND TIME. WHAT'S THAT DO TO THE PEOPLE THAT TRY TO DO IT CORRECTLY AND COME HERE AND SAY, THANK YOU IN 30 DAYS I'LL HAVE X, Y, AND Z DONE. IF WE CONTINUE TO LET THIS GO ON AND ON AND ON, I JUST WONDER IF I THINK ABOUT IT FOR A MOMENT. ANYTHING ELSE, SIR? UM, I WOULD SAY IT'S A LITTLE IRONIC THAT ONE OF HIS MAIN COMPLAINTS IS HE'S SAYING THAT HE'S BEEN TREATED UN OR UNEQUALLY OR NOT FAIRLY BECAUSE OF ALL THE OTHER PROBLEMS WE'VE HAD OVER THE PAST YEAR. BUT OBVIOUSLY THE BOARD KNOWS, WELL, EVERY OTHER CIRCUMSTANCE, THE OFFENDER HAS COME IN AND MADE RIGHT, UH, PRETTY QUICKLY AND ALSO TAKEN ACTION ALMOST IMMEDIATELY TO START THE PROCESS TO MAKE RIGHT. AND THAT'S WHY THIS PARTICULAR CASE IS BEING TREATED DIFFERENTLY IS BECAUSE EVERYBODY ELSE COMES IN AND, AND, AND FIXES THE PROBLEM ON AND, AND STARTS IMMEDIATELY. EVERYBODY IS INNOCENT. UH, JUST GO OVER THERE AND START ASKING THEM. MM-HMM. UH, JAIL. EVERYBODY'S INNOCENT. . UM, THANK YOU, SIR. ANYTHING ELSE? THAT'S IT. I'D LIKE TO CLOSE THE FLOOR. ANYONE ELSE WISH TO SPEAK ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR, UH, VIOLATION OR JPA? UM, I'M GONNA CLOSE IT, OPEN IT TO THE FLOOR, CLOSE IT. NOW I'M GONNA OPEN IT UP TO BOARD DISCUSSION AND I'D LIKE TO HEAR FROM EVERYONE STARTING WITH YOU. YOU HAD A QUESTION THAT I KIND SHUT YOU DOWN. WELL, I JUST BASED, SAY IT AGAIN. WELL, I JUST BASED THAT THE GENTLEMAN, MR. POLOWSKI'S OUT OF TOWN RIGHT NOW. SO HE'S NOT AT HIS HOUSE THERE IN CAPTAIN COAT. CORRECT? I THAT'S WHAT HE'S TOLD ME. AND, AND WHEN I WENT BY THERE, I DIDN'T SEE ANYBODY, BUT THAT'S OKAY. SO I, I HAVE TO SAY WHERE I'M AT, I KNOW IT MIGHT SOUND HARD FOR US TO DO THIS, BUT I'M WILLING TO GIVE HIM A COUPLE MORE MONTHS WHEN THE GROWING SEASON AND GET THIS DONE. THAT'S MY FIRST THOUGHT IN REGARDS TO THIS. I DON'T FEEL LIKE I WANT TO IMPOSE ANY FINES AT THE MOMENT, BUT THAT'S WHAT, THAT'S THE WAY I'M LEANING IN THAT REGARDS TO GIVE HIM. BUT I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT FOR HIM TO COMMUNICATE TO US WHAT IS THE TIMEFRAME THAT HE WANTS. BECAUSE THE WAY I REMEMBER, I THINK I WAS THE ONE THAT SORT OF WENT WITH THE DISCUSSION OF APRIL 15TH, AND IT WAS MY UNDERSTANDING THAT HE WOULD BE BACK IN THE AREA APRIL, MAY OF THIS YEAR. AND I THINK WE DECIDE WE WANT IT DONE SOONER THAN LATER. AND THAT'S WHY WE WENT WITH APRIL THE WAY MY MEMORY TELLS ME. UM, AND, UH, THAT'S CORRECT. HE DID NOT GIVE US A DATE. OKAY. AND WHEN HE DID NOT GIVE US A DATE, THE BOARD IMPOSED IT. OKAY. AND WHEN I COMMUNICATED TO HIM, HE IMME, HE IMMEDIATELY SAID HE DIDN'T AGREE WITH IT. AND I COMMUNICATED BACK, I MEAN, THE BOARD OBVIOUSLY KNOWS YOU DON'T AGREE WITH IT. I MEAN, OR THEY DON'T KNOW YOU DON'T AGREE WITH IT, BUT THEY IMPOSED IT. IF YOU DON'T AGREE WITH IT, THEN YOU CAN SHOW UP AT THE NEXT MEETING, YOU KNOW, DO A NUMBER OF THINGS. BUT, WELL THEN I GUESS MAYBE I'M, I'M LEANING INTO A MORE OF A LENIENT WAY HERE IS JUST TO ASK HIM, WHEN DO YOU WANT IT DONE? IS IT GONNA BE MAY, JUNE, JULY? WHAT'S, YOU KNOW, WHAT, UH, WHAT, WHAT, WHAT DAY, WHAT MONTH WOULD HE LIKE TO HAVE IT DONE IN THIS CASE? THAT'S, THAT'S HOW I'M THINKING ABOUT IT. UM, IF, IF THE BOARD CARES ABOUT MY PREFERENCE, I'D PREFER THE BOARD TO GIVE HIM A DATE BECAUSE I, MY COMMUNICATIONS WITH HIM HAVE NOT BEEN ALL THAT PRODUCTIVE. WE CAN LET HIM KICK HIS CAN DOWN THE ROAD TILL WE DROP DEAD OF OLD AGE IF WE DON'T DO THAT. YEAH. UH, BUT I, I WANT TO GO AROUND THE ROOM, FIRST OF ALL, UM, ANYTHING ELSE, UH, I'D LIKE TO HEAR FROM THE OTHER BOARD ABOUT THIS. SO WHAT I, MR. WARD, UH, WHAT DO YOU GOTTA SAY ABOUT THIS? KNOWING OF THE FACTS AND HOW LONG IT'S BEEN IN HIS ATTITUDE? I, HE'S NOT BEING VERY, UH, HELPFUL IN THE SITUATION. AND IT APPEARS THAT HE DON'T THINK IT'S ANY OF HIS FAULT. [00:15:01] IT'S OUR FAULT. WELL, IF HE WOULD JUST ABIDE BY OUR DECISIONS, EVERYTHING WOULD BE GOOD. I, I WOULDN'T MIND GIVING HIM TO ANOTHER 60 DAYS, BUT INFORM HIM THAT AT THE END OF THE 60 DAYS, IF IT'S NOT COMPLETED, UH, THERE WILL BE CIVIL ACTION STATEMENTS. OKAY. UH, MY VIEW, IF WE ALLOW HIM TO JUST CONTINUE TO, UH, DO NOTHING, THEN, UH, WHY SHOULDN'T EVERYONE EXPECT THAT WE'VE GIVEN HIM TIME AND TIME AND TIME AGAIN? UH, I CAN'T IMAGINE WITH LOOKING AND GETTING READY TO HAVE MR. TAYLOR TELL YOU ALL THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE, UH, WHICH IS A VERY SMALL THING THAT WE ALL SEE THERE. UH, WHAT I SUGGEST IS THAT WE LEAN ON YOU, MR. WATSON, TO TRY TO FIND HIM ONE MORE TIME AND JUST FLAT OUT ASK HIM, UH, HOW MUCH LONGER HE WANT WANTS, WILL HE BE HERE NEXT MONTH? UH, WILL HE HAVE IT REPAIRED INSIDE OF NEXT MONTH OR HE JUST DOESN'T CARE? THAT'S ALL. TALK TO US POLICE. WE, WE DIRECTED HIM TO FILL IN PLANT. AND, UH, LIKE I SAID, YOU JUST HAPPENED TO BE THERE WHEN I CALLED HIM. THIS IS WHAT I WAS EXPECTED TO SEE. BUT YOU CAN SEE THE REASON THAT REALLY GROWTH AREA, WHITE BIG BUILD. THERE'S, THERE'S, UH, STONE SORT, LAKE CRUSHING NUN, YOU KNOW, FIND MILLS THERE. YOU, IF YOU DON'T, DOES ANYBODY DISAGREE? MAYBE WITH THAT LITTLE PILE OF, UH, STONE, UH, CRUSHED STONE, WASN'T THERE, THAT THAT WOULD, THAT WOULD'VE, THAT GRASS WOULD'VE GROWN? SURE. IT'S GROWN AROUND IT, RIGHT? IT'S GROWN AROUND IT. SO TO ME, I WOULD EVEN BACK OFF ON WHAT WE TOLD HIM TO DO, WHICH WAS FILLING PLANT, WHICH IS, AND WE'RE, AND THE SIMPLEST THING IN THE WORLD WOULD BE TO RAKE THE MILLINGS OUT OF THAT AREA. AND I REALLY THINK IT'S GONNA GO BACK ON ITS OWN. AND YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT SOMETHING THAT WOULD TAKE FOUR HOURS. AND TO ME THAT I CAN'T, AND I CAN'T, I, AS, AS A BOARD MEMBER, AND I'M THE ONE THAT TALKED, I DON'T THINK YOU, I THINK YOU'RE GONNA ALONG WAY THAT TIME. I'M THE ONE THAT SAID PLANT AND, AND, AND, YOU KNOW, FILL IN PLANT. BUT THIS IS SO MUCH EASIER THAN FILLING AND PLANTING. IT'S JUST RAKING THE ST RAKING THE STUFF OUT WHERE YOU GET DOWN TO, TO THE NATURAL. AND I BELIEVE IT WILL GROW ON ITS OWN. AND THAT'S, IF YOU CAN'T DO THAT, THEN FIRST OF ALL, WE GOTTA FIND OUT, UH, IS IF HE'S SUGGESTING I'M DOING NOTHING OR LOVE TO, WE NEED TO FIND THAT OUT. UH, THIS IS A WHOLE LOT LESS WORK AND A LOT LESS IN A THREE YEAR PLANTING PLAN. I BELIEVE, LIKE YOU SAID, I BELIEVE YOU JUST RAKE THE STUFF OUT. IT WOULD GROW ON ITS OWN. THAT'S THE REASON WHY I CALLED YOU AND YOU TOLD ME WHAT I THOUGHT. AND, AND, AND HANK HAD THE SAME THINKING. IT WOULD GROW ON ITS OWN IF IT DIDN'T GET CHOKED OUT BY THE, THE THICK, THE THICK ROCK AND THE, AND THE RE OF IT. I REALLY THINK YOU TAKE THAT OUT. I BELIEVE IT WOULD GROW BACK ON ITS OWN NO MATTER WHAT. UH, GOTTA HAVE A MONITORING PLAN IN PLACE, NO MATTER WHAT WE CHOOSE TO DO ABOUT THIS. LET HIM, I THINK YOU MENTIONED IT, A THREE YEAR MONITORING PLAN THAT WE CAN TAKE A LOOK AT. AND, UH, IF IT'S NOT GROWING, THEN HE'S GONNA HAVE TO FIX IT NO MATTER WHAT. OKAY. MR. BADGER GOT YOUR BOOK OPEN. UH, YEAH. I, I I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT WE FOLLOWED THE CORRECT PROCEDURE IN THIS, THIS VIOLATION. UH, SO PAUL, CAN YOU KIND OF GO OVER WHAT HAS HAPPENED FROM, UH, WHEN YOU FOUND THE VIOLATION AND THEN, UH, UH, I KNOW THAT YOU GAVE HIM A, A CEASE OR YOU HAD STOPPED THE WORK ORDER ON HIM AND THEN, UH, THEN THE SWORN COMPLAINT WAS FILED, OR SWORN COMPLAINT WAS FILED FOR THE FIRST MEETING. I PRESENTED THAT TO THE BOARD MM-HMM . AND THEN AT THE NEXT MEETING, I GAVE HIM NOTICE THAT IT WOULD, THE SWORN COMPLAINT WOULD BE HEARD. OKAY. AND THE BOARD ORDERED A RESTORATION PLAN. HE PROVIDED ONE. THERE WERE A FEW MONTHS WHERE WE DIDN'T HAVE MEETINGS. MM-HMM . SO I THINK IT WAS, UH, SEVERAL MONTHS LATER HE PROVIDED THE RESTORATION PLAN. UM, AT THAT POINT, UH, HE DID NOT HAVE A, AN OVERHEAD FOR THE RESTORATION PLAN. MM-HMM . UH, HE PROVIDED THAT. AND THEN THE LAST ISSUE WAS THE DEADLINE. AND HE DID NOT, HAD NOT PROVIDED A DEADLINE. WHEN WE GOT TO THE MEETING, UH, THE SUBSEQUENT MEETING, THE BOARD IMPOSED THE APRIL 15 DEADLINE. I WOULD SAY THAT WOULD PROBABLY HAVE BEEN THE NOVEMBER MEETING, I THINK OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD, TO THE BEST OF MY RECOLLECTION, UH, WHERE THE BOARD IMPOSED THE APRIL 15 DEADLINE. SO IT WAS A SERIES OF MM-HMM . REQUESTS THAT HE, YOU KNOW, FILL IN THE GAPS OF HIS PLAN. MM-HMM . SO THE ORIGINAL, UH, SWORN COMPLAINT IN THE HEARING, THAT SUBSEQUENT HEARING, UH, WE GAVE HIM MORE THAN 30 DAYS NOTICE. YES. OKAY. UM, I, BECAUSE [00:20:01] THAT'S PART OF THE PROCESS. YES. OKAY. YEAH, I, THE RULES AREN'T EXACTLY CLEAR ABOUT THE SWORN COMPLAINT. SO THE, MY PRACTICE IS TO PRESENT THE SWORN COMPLAINT AT ONE MEETING AND THEN HAVE IT HEARD AT THE NEXT MEETING WITH 30 DAYS NOTICE. OKAY. UM, I, I THINK THAT FOLLOWS WHAT THE RULES REQUIRE, OR AT LEAST THAT'S BEING SAFE, I THINK, AS TO WHAT THE RULES REQUIRE. SO WE, WE'VE GONE THROUGH THE PROCESS. HE HAS SUBMITTED THE INFORMATION FOR RESTORATION. AT THIS POINT, HE JUST HAS NOT DONE THE RESTORATION, IS THAT CORRECT? THAT IS CORRECT. I, IT CERTAINLY, IF HE'S DONE IT, IT, IT'S NOT APPARENT FROM, FROM WHAT I'VE SEEN OR, OR DONE ANYTHING. IT, IT APPEARS AS IF HE'S DONE NOTHING BUT MM-HMM . I, I CAN'T SAY FOR CERTAIN, BUT IT DOESN'T APPEAR AS IF HE'S DONE DONE IT. SO REALLY WE HAVE TWO OPTIONS. WE CAN EITHER GIVE HIM ANOTHER CONTINUANCE FOR WHATEVER NUMBER OF DAYS OR WHATEVER MONTHS, OR WE CAN JUST TURN IT OVER TO, UH, THE, UH, THE COURT SYSTEM. CORRECT. YES. I, I, THOSE ARE TWO OPTIONS. UH, WELL, AND THE THIRD OPTION IS TO ASK HIM IF HE WANTS TO AGREE TO A FINE, BUT WELL, A FINE DOESN'T TAKE CARE OF THE PROBLEM. UH, IF THAT'S CORRECT, IF, IF HE AGREES TO A FINE, WHAT HAPPENS? UH, WE, SOMEBODY SPENDS THE MONEY TO FIX IT OR HE HAS TO FIX IT ANYWAY. UM, I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT EITHER GOING TO COURT AND BEING FINED OR OR ACCEPTING A FINE FROM THIS BOARD RELIEVES HIM OF HIS ORIGINAL OBLIGATION. I EXPECT IT. SO I GUESS WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS BASICALLY RIGHT. YEAH. AND IT JUST, ONCE AGAIN, YES, UH, STRIKES ME AS, UH, HE THINKS HE'S RIGHT. UM, YOU, YOU EVERYONE READ THE LETTER FROM HIS NEIGHBOR OR NEIGHBORS THAT, UH, THEY THINK THAT HE CAN WALK ON WATER, HE SAVED THEM. UH, BUT NEVERTHELESS, I THINK HANK, YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD AND WE NEED TO DECIDE RIGHT NOW, UH, WHAT WE'RE GONNA DO, UM, I GUESS I HAVE A TWO-PARTER HERE. DO WE CAN GO WITH WHAT MR. BADGER JUST SAID, EXTEND IT CONTINUANCE, WHICH I SORT OF WHERE I'M LEANING, BUT ESSENTIALLY, DO WE HAVE TO MODIFY WHAT WE WANT HIM TO DO? BECAUSE WHAT, RIGHT NOW, IT SOUNDS LIKE MR. TAYLOR WOULD JUST WANT HIM TO RAKE IT FIRST AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS. AND THEN IF NEED BE DOWN THE ROAD, A MONITORING PLAN, REPLANT IF IT'S NECESSARY. DOES THAT SUMS IT UP AND, AND IN THE REAL WORLD, LIKE YOU SAY, I MEAN, TO ME, THAT'S WHAT I WAS THINKING. I THINK IT WAS THINKING THAT IT'S GONNA GROW BACK AND WHY IT'S NOT GROWING BACK IS, LIKE I SAY, THE, THE, THE LITTLE STONE AND STUFF. IT WON'T, IT WON'T, CAN'T GET THROUGH IT. UM, YEAH, THAT'S THE ORIGINAL WAS PLANTED AND I THINK THAT WOULD BE, UM, REALLY A TOUGHER GRILL THAN RAKING IT. AND LIKE YOU SAY, IT'S, IT'S A LOT MORE SIMPLE FOR 'EM. IT COSTS NO MONEY, COSTS NO MONEY FOR FUEL. IT COSTS NO MONEY FOR THE PLANTS. AND, AND IT'S GOING NOW, NOW WHEN Y'ALL, Y'ALL WERE THERE, UH, OUT OF THAT 10, 10 AREA, HOW MUCH IS LEFT? THAT'S UN AND I KNOW WE ALSO, WE CAN SEE THE REASON WHY IT'S NOT GROWN, BUT WHAT IS, WHAT IS, WHAT IS THAT AREA LEFT THAT'S NOT, UH, VEGETATED IN THAT 10 10 AREA? YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT I'M SAYING? SOME OF THAT 10, 10 AREA HAS ALREADY NATURALLY GROWN IN. WELL, IF THAT'S, THAT'S, YOU SAY, I WOULD SAY THE AREA IN, UH, MAYBE 28 SQUARE FEET OUT OF THE A HUNDRED MAYBE. DO YOU UNDERST WHAT I'M SAYING? MAYBE A LITTLE LESS. SO I REALLY FEEL THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING. I REALLY FEEL, AND LIKE WE HAD THE CASE OF LAST WEEK, IT GROWS BACK. I COULD SAY IT'S ALREADY, IT'S RIGHT TO HAVE THAT AND WE WANNA HAVE THAT PLANT PLAN, BUT IF STORMS AND STUFF TAKE, TAKES IT, AS LONG AS IT GROWS BACK AND WE SEE IT, IT'S GROWING BACK AND, AND WE NEED TO BE MONITORING OURSELVES, DO THE THING, SEEING IT GOING BACK. AND THEN FOR, LIKE I SAID, IT'S NOT, IF IT DOES GO BACK AND THEN STORM TAKES AND STUFF, WE ALREADY HAD THAT CONVERSATION LAST WEEK AND THEN NOTHING NOBODY CAN DO ABOUT THAT. UH, FOR WHAT GOD TAKES. BUT AGAIN, I COULD SAY THAT'S WHAT, THAT'S WHAT MY THINKING WAS WHEN I CALLED YOU. AND TO ME, I COULD SAY, AND IT WOULD TAKE VERY LITTLE TIME FOR THE, AND LIKE I SAID, IF, IF YOU, IF YOU CAN'T DO THAT, IT'S NOT GONNA WORK OUT. SO I THINK WE'RE AT THE POINT WE EITHER NEED TO STICK WITH WHAT WE'VE ALREADY GIVEN HIM EXTENSIONS FOR AND DETERMINE HOW MUCH MORE TIME HE NEEDS. WE'LL, UH, SAY YOU GET HALF THAT, YOU GET ALL THAT OR CHANGE THE WHOLE GAME AND DO WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT. CALL HIM, GIVE HIM X NUMBER OF DAYS TO GET THAT DONE, OR WE'RE GOING TO FILE. IS THAT WHERE WE STAND RIGHT NOW? YEAH. I, I DON'T STAND THERE. UH, NO SIR. WE ARE GONNA VOTE ON IF THERE'S A, IF WE CHANGE IT, THERE'LL BE A VOTE. YEAH. I DON'T WANT, I, I I KNOW. OKAY. UM, AND I WOULD JUST ADD LOGISTICALLY, UH, WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING TO BE HEARD IN MAY. SO THE NEXT TIME WE'RE GOING TO THE, THE BOARD WILL MEET WILL BE JUNE. OH, THERE'S NOTHING NEXT MONTH. I, ALRIGHT. I, I, I WOULD THINK I'M CORRECT ON THIS. [00:25:01] UM, I THINK WE'RE AT THE POINT IN TIME THAT WE NEED TO, IF ANYONE HAS A, A CHANGE IN WHAT SHOULD BE DONE OTHER THAN HOW WE STAND WITH THIS GENTLEMAN RIGHT NOW, I THINK IT'S TIME FOR A MOTION TO CHANGE IT. WHETHER WE VOTE, WHETHER IT PASSES OR NOT. BUT I THINK THAT IS THE WAY TO GO. AND THEN WE WILL GO FROM THERE, UH, AND INSTRUCT MR. WATSON HOW TO GET THAT DONE. CARRY ON. SO, OKAY. I'M SORRY MR. CHAIR. CARRY ON. OKAY. SO UNFORTUNATELY I WAS NOT HERE AT THE JULY MEETING BACK IN 2025. RIGHT? SO THE GAME PLAN WAS FOR HIM TO CLEAN UP THE, RAKE IT UP, THEN PLANT IT, FILL, FILL, IMPLANT, FILL AND PLANT FILL IMPLANT AND, AND, AND MONITOR. AND MONITOR. OKAY. GOT THAT. GOT THAT. YEAH. ALL AND THE FILL WAS WHERE IT'S NEEDED, SIR. THE FILL WAS WHERE, WHERE IT WAS NEEDED. NOT, NOT THE HOLE. OKAY, VERY GOOD. YOU, YOU WITH US ON THAT? YEAH, BUT I FEEL LIKE WE'RE BENDING OVER TOO FAR. GREAT. IT'S COMING TO YOU. HOLD ON. UH, SO I THINK WE COULD SIT HERE AND BEAT THIS TO DEATH, BUT WE'RE NOT GOING TO, IF ANYONE WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION TO CHANGE WHAT WE HAVE ALREADY TOLD HIM TO DO AND HE IS, UH, DELINQUENT, THEN I ASK FOR A MOTION NOW. WELL, IN THE REAL WORLD, LIKE YOU'RE SAYING, AS LONG AS HE KNOW IT'S FILL OR NEED, YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT I'M SAYING? NO, THAT HAS TO BE, WELL, LIKE I SAID, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. THE FILL THAT DOESN'T ISN'T THE WHOLE PLACE THEY CALL IT RIGHT NOW. IF YOU FILL IT, YOU'RE GONNA BE FILLING OVER MARSH GRASS. YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT I'M SAYING? RIGHT NOW THAT IN THAT 10% AREA, A LOT OF THAT HAS ALREADY BEEN, ALREADY BEEN REGED ON ITS OWN. SO LIKE YOU SAY, IT IS GOTTA BE RAKED ANYWAY OR NOTHING'S GONNA GROW THERE ANYHOW. YOU CAN PUT ALL THE FILL ONTO IT AND PLANTED ALL YOU WANT THAT IT'S GONNA BE CHOKED OFF BY THE ROCK DOWN BELOW. SO EITHER KIND OF WAY IT'S GOTTA BE RIGGED EITHER WAY. IT DOES IT. AND JUST LIKE YOU SAY, PLACES THAT DON'T HAVE THE GRASS, BECAUSE I DON'T SEE THE SENSE IN FILLING THE GRASS THAT'S ALREADY THERE. THAT TO ME DON'T MAKE ANY SENSE. SO IF WE GIVE HIM A, I'M JUST PUT THIS OUT DEADLINE, SAY JUNE, ARE WE EXPECTING THE AREA TO BE RAKED AND FILLED WITH PLANTINGS WHERE NEEDED? IS THAT CORRECT? IF WE GIVE 'EM THAT DEADLINE THAT'S NOT ALREADY GOING BACK ON IT ON. WELL, I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S GONNA GROW BACK. NO, I'M TALKING THERE'S, THERE'S AREA THAT 10 BY 10 AREAS ALREADY BEEN GROWING BACK ON. IT'S ON. ALRIGHT, SO I'M I'M I'M SORRY, GO AHEAD. SO IF WE CHOOSE, SINCE WE'VE GOT NO MEETING NEXT MONTH, UH, WE STICK WITH WHAT WE HAVE, BUT AN EXTENSION THROUGH JUNE, IS THAT WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT? I I I THINK THAT'S GOOD. IS THAT WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT? EVERYBODY? DO Y'ALL, DO Y'ALL SEE THE SENSE AND FILLING THE GRASS THAT'S ALREADY BEEN, THAT'S ALREADY COME BACK ON THE PHONE. THAT'S, I DON'T THINK WE'RE TALKING ABOUT FILLING THE GRASS. WE WE'RE, I DON'T THINK THAT'S SO AREA, THE AREA THAT NEEDS TO BE WOULD NEED TO BE FILLED. NOW YOU SAID IT'S, UH, HOW MANY SQUARE FOOT? UM, I MEAN IT'S A LITTLE HARD TO TELL. I THINK YOU CAN SEE FROM THESE PICTURES THAT HAS THE, IT WAS A HUNDRED WAS RIGHT AND, AND NOW IT'S WHAT, UH, SAY 85. IT'S 80 TO 90, 80 CALL, LET'S CALL IT 85. ALL RIGHT. SO, UH, IF WE'RE GONNA GIVE THEM EXTENSION, WE NEED A MOTION, UH, THAT THE 85 SQUARE FEET NEEDS TO BE FILLED, PLANTED, MONITORED. IT IS A LITTLE DIFFICULT BECAUSE WHAT'S GROWING IS INTERSPERSED ROCKS AND WHY NOT? UH, A HUNDRED FEET LESS ANYTHING THAT HAS GROWTH. ALRIGHT. UH, TALK TO ME EVERYBODY. AND ALSO WE SHOULD ADDRESS THE GAVIN BASKET. THOSE GAVIN BASKET HAS NOTHING TO DO TO WHAT WE WE'RE USING AS A CLEARING HOUSE. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH US. WE KNOW THAT HE KNOWS IT. YOU KNOW IT, EVERYBODY KNOWS IT. HE'S JUST USING IT AS AN EXCUSE. IT DOESN'T MATTER. IT DOESN'T EVEN NEED TO BE IN THE MOTION. SO I WANT A MOTION. PLEASE ASK FOR A MOTION, SIR. MR. I'LL MAKE THE MOTION. MR. I'LL MAKE THE MOTION THAT WE EXTEND THE DEADLINE FOR GETTING THE PLANTED WHERE NEEDED FOR THE AREA FOR THE MICHAEL PALA COMPLAINT. AND WE GIVE HIM A DEADLINE OF, I'D SAY JUNE 30TH, 2026. JUNE MEETING. JUNE MEETING. WELL, I'D ASK FOR IT TO BE, OH, APPROXIMATELY A WEEK BEFORE THE MEETING. SO, OKAY. EXCUSE ME. LET ME, LET ME, LET ME RE I MAKE THE MOTION THAT WE HAVE A DEADLINE OF JUNE 15TH, 2026 FOR THE, FOR THE, UH, MICHAEL PULASKI COMPLAINT AND HAVE IT SO THAT THE STONE IS REMOVED AND PLANNINGS [00:30:01] ARE DONE WHEN NE WHERE NECESSARY. AND WITH A MONITORING PLAN OVER THREE YEARS, DO WE NEED A TAX MAP, JPA OR ANYTHING IN THAT MOTION? OR IS THAT PREDETERMINED? I, I I THINK, I THINK IT'S, I THINK WE ALL UNDERSTAND. OKAY. ALRIGHT. SO YOU GOT THAT. ALRIGHT. EVERYBODY UNDERSTAND THE MOTION? SECOND PLEASE. I'LL SECOND. SECOND. MR. WARD, UH, LET'S VOTE. AYE AYE. AYE. OKAY, WE'RE IN FAVOR OF THAT. UH, GINGER, YOU GOT ALL THAT? YOU GOT ANY QUESTIONS? NO. ALRIGHT. THAT'S THE WAY IT'S GONNA BE JUST AFTER THE MOTION HERE, JUST FOR YOUR INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES. HE OBVIOUSLY SENT IN A LOT OF PAPERWORK AND JUST TO LET YOU KNOW, IN, UH, EXHIBIT B, NUMBER SEVEN, HE TALKED ABOUT ALL THE THINGS HE WOULD LIKE THE WETLANDS BOARD TO DO. THAT'S RIGHT. SO IF YOU, UH, I, I KNOW IT'S A LOT OF PAPERWORK, BUT HE SORT OF HAD IT IN THE EXHIBIT B. SO IF YOU WANNA TAKE A LOOK AT THAT. BUT AGAIN, WHAT MR. WATSON TALKED ABOUT, IT WAS MORE OF AN ENFORCEMENT ISSUE, WHICH MAY OR MAY NOT BE WITHIN OUR JURISDICTION. PROBABLY IN THAT CASE, EVERYBODY'S GOT THIS IN IT. MM-HMM . ANY QUESTIONS? UH, I THINK THAT, UH, IN THE ENFORCEMENT, UH, WE'VE ALREADY DONE OUR JOB AND HE CAN BRING IT TO THE TABLE IF HE CHOOSES. I DO HAVE ONE MORE LAST QUESTION. IS THAT, I MEAN, WE TALKED ABOUT, THERE'S TWO THINGS. WE TALKED ABOUT THE OLD SEAWALL THAT GOES BACK TO 1970 THAT WAS THERE. DOES ANYONE EVER HAVE A PICTURE OF THAT? IS THERE, I I, I, I, I HAVE A HOUSE THERE. WAS IT 1977? YEAH. AND CLAMMED OUT IN THAT AREA. I THINK THE REASON WHY I TOOK 'EM DOWN 'CAUSE THE, THE WIRE GOT WHERE YOU, IT GOT CLOSE TO THE CHY, BUT THE ROCKS ACTUALLY, THE ROCKS AIN'T GOING NOWHERE. WHY THEY TOOK IT DOWN. I MEAN, IT WAS, IT WAS, IT WAS YOUR, THE ORGANIZATION , YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? THAT, THAT WANTED IT OUT THERE. DON'T ASK ME WHY. SO THAT WAS BACK IN, BECAUSE IT WAS PROTECTION AND IT WAS PROTECTION. SO DID THAT GET TAKEN OUT BACK IN THE SEVENTIES? NO, IT WAS THERE IN THE SEVENTIES. OKAY. THAT WASN'T THAT LONG AGO. I MEAN, IT WAS, I BELIEVE IF YOU LOOK AT THE COUNTY MAPPING SITE, YOU CAN GO BACK TO 2002 AND YOU CAN SEE LIKE THE OUTLINE IN THE WATER. IT'S NOT BEEN THAT OF WHERE IT WAS AT THAT TIME. OKAY. VERY GOOD. THANK YOU. OKAY, UH, LET'S MOVE ON, SHALL WE? WE'RE GONNA CONTINUE WITH THE OLD BUSINESS. THIS IS SUBJECT 4.02 JPA IS 2 0 2 4 DASH 2360. IT IS THE PLANTING, UH, PLAN FOR CEDAR ISLAND. UM, EVERYBODY KNOWS, UH, THIS IS NOW THE THIRD MONTH FOR THE, UH, WHEN THEY ORIGINALLY WERE HERE. UH, WE ASKED FOR A FIVE YEAR MONITORING PLAN AND UM, I THINK WE MIGHT HAVE SOME MORE INFORMATION ON THAT. SO SIR, WOULD YOU ENLIGHTEN US? SO THE ONLY OUTSTANDING ISSUE WAS THE BOARD'S INQUIRY AS TO WHETHER THE COUNTY HAD ANY LIABILITY UNDER THIS PLANTING PLAN. RIGHT. UH, THE COUNTY ATTORNEY HAS REVIEWED THE MEMORANDUM OF UNDERSTANDING BETWEEN VIMS AND THE COUNTY AND SHE HAS CLEARLY STATED TO ME THAT ALL LIABILITIES ON VIMS, NONE ON THE COUNTY. UH, SO THERE WAS NO CONCERN FROM THE COUNTY THAT THE BOARD WAS PLACING ANY LIABILITY ON THE COUNTY. AND I BELIEVE THAT ANSWERS THE BOARD'S QUESTION. AT LEAST I HOPE IT DOES. 'CAUSE THAT'S WHAT I'M TRYING TO BE. UH, IF, IF THAT'S THE WAY IT IS, THEN THAT CERTAINLY ANSWERS HER QUESTION. DOES, I GUESS MY QUESTION, WHY DID THEM COME TO THE COUNTY TO PUT THEIR NAME ON IT ANYWAY? UM, I, I PROBABLY NEEDED A LOCAL SPONSOR. I, I THINK THE GRANT MONEY NEED NEEDED A LOCAL SPONSOR. I THINK MAYBE TO ASSIST IN THE GRANT FUNDING. UM, I'M, I'M NOT EXACTLY SURE, BUT I, I HAVE BEEN IN THE, AT THE PERIPHERY OF THOSE DISCUSSIONS, SO I, I CAN'T SAY FOR CERTAIN, BUT I DO KNOW THAT IT WAS SOME TECHNICALITY THAT ASSISTED IN THE, IN THE FUNDING OR, OR IN SOME ASPECT OF THE PROJECT BECAUSE WE OWN NOTHING THERE MOST I'M THE OWNER THAT COMES BEFORE YOU LIST. YEAH. JUST SOUND AT THE LEGAL PART OF IT. SO IS THERE ANY ACTION, UH, ANY DISCUSSION REGARDING THAT? WE ONLY HAD ONE QUESTION. I GUESS THE REST IS, UH, ALREADY PREDETERMINED AND, AND I'LL JUST SAY AS A FOLLOW UP, WE, WE HAVE THE, UH, PERMIT READY FOR YOUR SIGNATURE AFTER THE MEETING TODAY. NOW THAT THAT'S BEEN RESOLVED. YES, SIR. AND, AND, AND I HAVE COMMUNICATED WITH STANTEC ABOUT THAT, ABOUT THE TIMING AND THEY WERE FINE WITH IT BEING SIGNED. YOU KNOW, THEY WEREN'T WAITING TO START CONSTRUCTION OF THIS WHOLE THING. I'LL JUST PUT IT THAT WAY. . ALRIGHT, ANYONE? UH, LET'S, LET'S DO THIS. WE'RE GONNA CLOSE IT. UH, ANYONE [00:35:01] ELSE WISHING TO SPEAK ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR JPA CLOSE THE FLOOR PUBLIC COMMENT? CLOSE THE FLOOR, UH, OPEN TO BOARD DISCUSSION. MR. WATSON, ANY QUESTIONS REGARDING IT? I THINK WE HAVE DONE ABOUT EVERYTHING WE'RE GONNA DO. UH, AND I'M LOOKING AT YOU. YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? YOU WEREN'T HERE LAST MONTH. DO YOU KNOW HOW WE STAND? MM-HMM . NO. OKAY. I'M FINE. SO THERE IS NO MOTION, NO NEED FOR A VOTE. WE'RE JUST GOOD TO GO. AND I'LL SIGN IT AFTER THE MEETING. IS THAT THE WAY IT GOES? YES. OKAY, WE'RE MOVING AHEAD. THANK YOU, SIR. NEXT, STILL ON OLD BUSINESS 4.03 AMENDED. JPA 2 0 2 5 DASH 1263 BIC. UM, MR. WATSON. UM, SO THERE WERE A COUPLE OF ISSUES THAT WERE, UH, RAISED AT THE LAST HEARING. THE BOARD WANT TO CONTINUE THE MATTER SO IT COULD HAVE A LITTLE MORE INFORMATION TO RESOLVE THOSE ISSUES. THE FIRST IS WHETHER THEY'RE WETLANDS UNDERNEATH THIS DOCK OR PLATFORM. I MADE A, WELL, SEVERAL SITE VISITS AND I'VE GOT A PICTURE EACH TIME. UH, THIS WAS ON APRIL THE 13TH. UM, OBVIOUSLY I'M LAYING ON MY STOMACH TAKING A PICTURE UNDERNEATH THE DOCK. THIS WAS, UH, AT 11:28 AM ON APRIL 13TH, WHICH WAS ABOUT 27 MINUTES BEFORE LOW TIDE. UM, I ACTUALLY CHECKED THE MOON PHASE TWO. THIS WAS A LITTLE BIT LOWER THAN NORMAL TIDE, THREE INCHES LOWER THAN NORMAL TIDE. UH, IT WAS A PRETTY GOOD BREEZE THAT DAY, MAYBE 15, 20 MILE AN HOUR BREEZE. UM, BUT AS YOU CAN SEE ON THAT DAY, THERE WERE A LOT OF WETLANDS UNDER THE DOCK. UM, THE NEXT VISIT WAS ON APRIL THE 16TH. UM, THIS WAS AT 1:37 PM WHICH WAS ABOUT 23 MINUTES BEFORE LOW TIDE THAT DAY. THAT LOW TIDE WAS ONE INCH LOWER THAN NORMAL. UM, ON THE MOON PHASE, WHICH IS PROBABLY ABOUT EQUAL OUT WITH ME BEING THERE 23 MINUTES OR SO BEFORE LOW TIDE, THAT ACTUAL LOW TIDE, UH, MUCH, UH, MAYBE 10 MILE AN HOUR BREEZE THAT DAY. UM, AND THEN FINALLY, UH, MONDAY EVENING, WHICH WAS THE 21ST OF APRIL AT 5 47. UM, FIVE MILE AN HOUR BREEZE AT MOST, THIS WAS AT 5 47 FOR A 6 0 8 LOW TIDE. SO ABOUT 20 MINUTES BEFORE LOW TIDE. AND THIS MOON PHASE HAD IT ALMOST AT A ZERO TIDE OF, I THINK IT WAS NEGATIVE POINT, UH, FIVE OR 0.05 FEET TIED. SO MAYBE LIKE A HALF INCH LOWER THAN NORMAL, ALMOST A NORMAL TIDE, MEAN LOW TIDE. AND THIS WAS, AGAIN, 20 MINUTES BEFORE LOW TIDE, ALMOST NO WIND WHATSOEVER. UM, UH, ALRIGHT. AND MY ESTIMATE OF USING THE MEASUREMENTS WE TOOK AND ACRO MAPT IS THAT IS ABOUT, WELL I WOULD SAY A CONSERVATIVE ESTIMATE IS IT'S 240 SQUARE FEET OF WETLANDS UNDERNEATH THAT, UH, NEW PORTION OF THE DOCK PLATFORM. ALRIGHT, ANYTHING ELSE, SIR? SO THAT'S THE FIRST ISSUE. UM, THE SECOND ISSUE WAS THE, UH, UH, WHETHER, I GUESS IT WAS TWO PARTS. NUMBER ONE, WHETHER, UH, MULTI-USER DOCS REQUIRE A LOCAL WETLANDS BOARD PERMIT AND BMRC DOES REQUIRE, I GUESS A, THEY'RE, WELL, THEY'RE NOT EXEMPT FROM REVIEW OF A MULTI-USER HERE. OUR, UH, OUR ORDINANCE USES THE WORD NON-COMMERCIAL, UH, NON-COMMERCIAL PEERS THAT'S CORRECT. ARE EXEMPT. SO, UM, I'VE COMMUNICATED WITH BMRC ABOUT THAT. AND THAT IS, UH, HOW OUR WETLANDS BOARD OR ANY WETLANDS BOARD WANTS TO INTERPRET THAT LANGUAGE, UM, IS UP TO THE WETLANDS BOARD. SO THE WETLANDS BOARD COULD DETERMINE THAT A MULTI-USER PEER REQUIRES A PERMIT TO BE, TO HAVE THE SAME, UH, STANDARD THAT VMRC DOES. OR IT COULD, UH, I GUESS GO WITH THE NON-COMMERCIAL COMMERCIAL DEFINITION, UM, AND, AND JUST REQUIRE COMMERCIAL PEERS TO, UH, OR NON-COMMERCIAL PEERS TO BE EXEMPT. UM, THAT'S ONE PART OF THE NEXT ISSUE OF THIS ISSUE. ANOTHER PART OF THIS ISSUE IS WHETHER THIS STRUCTURE IS ACTUALLY A PEER, UH, MEANING THIS IS THE NEW SECTION APPROXIMATELY HERE, AND IT IS, I GUESS OTHERWISE IT'S JUST A PLATFORM OVER THE WATER, MEANING HOW BIG OF A PIER CAN YOU HAVE [00:40:01] BEFORE YOU CALL IT SOMETHING ELSE. UM, SO THE BOARD HAS TWO ISSUES THERE AS TO HOW IT WANTS TO CHARACTERIZE WHAT WE HAVE HERE. AND THEN THE FINAL ISSUE THAT WAS RAISED WAS THE, UH, WHAT HAD HAPPENED BACK IN, I BELIEVE JANUARY OF 2025. AT THAT POINT, THE BULKHEAD WAS CONSTRUCTED OUT TO WHERE THIS PLATFORM WAS. UM, BICK WAS ORDERED TO PULL IT BACK, WHICH IT DID, AND ALSO WAS ASSESSED A PENALTY FOR THE WETLANDS THAT WERE DESTROYED. AND, UH, THERE WAS DISCUSSION ABOUT WHETHER VIC HAD, I GUESS, ALREADY PAID FOR THESE WETLANDS. AND THAT IS NOT WHAT HAPPENED. IT'S A PENALTY, IT WAS NOT MITIGATION. THOSE ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS. I HAVE LOOKED AT THE MINUTES AND THE MINUTES DO SAY THAT, BUT I DO NOT BELIEVE, UH, THAT IT WAS POSSIBLE FOR IT TO BE MITIGATION BECAUSE IT WAS A, A PENALTY AS OPPOSED TO MITIGATION. MEANING ONCE HE, ONCE YOU PAY IT, YOU DON'T, PAUL READ THAT AND, AND I'VE READ IT AND I'VE READ THE MINUTES TOO. IT DON'T MEAN NOTHING TO YOU. WHAT'S THAT? THAT PAPER MEANS NOTHING TO YOU. I WOULD SAY THAT IF IT WAS MITIGATION, THEN MR. BRITTON SHOULD HAVE BEEN ALLOWED TO KEEP A BULKHEAD THERE BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT IT MEANS. IT MEANS, NO, I'M THE ONE THAT DONE THE, I'M THE ONE THAT DONE THE, UM, I I'VE GOT THE MINUTES RIGHT HERE AND I GOOD. YOU READ, READ, DO THE, DO THE DO THE THING. AND I KNOW I DID IT. AND THE REASON WHY HE HAD TO PAY FOR IT, HE, HE RESTORED IT. DO YOU AGREE THAT HE RESTORED IT? DO YOU AGREE OR NOT? IT'S RESTORED WETLANDS. AM I RIGHT OR WRONG? AM I RIGHT OR WRONG? I I I DON'T KNOW. I MEAN, YOU JUST SAID IT WAS WETLANDS UNDER THERE. WE ALL JUST LOOKED AT IT. IT'S IT'S RESTORED WETLANDS. IT'S RESTORED WETLANDS. I MEAN, I'M NOT, I WASN'T INVOLVED IN THAT, SO I'M NOT SURE IT'S RESTORED WETLANDS. IT'S RESTORED WETLANDS. OKAY. I'M THE ONE THAT MADE A MOTION, SISTER AND I, AND, AND, NO, NO, NO, NO. HOLD UP. AND I AGREE THAT THAT WAS WHAT WAS MOTION. THE REASON I MADE DIDN'T PAY FOR IT BECAUSE THERE WAS NO WAY THAT THE, UH, THE, WE, THE, UH, VEGETATIVE WETLANDS IS GONNA LIVE THERE. IF YOU, IF YOU DO NEED, IF YOU DO A PULLBACK FOR THE YEARS, IT'S AMAZING HOW MUCH THOSE, THOSE, UH, VEGETATED WETLANDS PULL BACK VEGETATION WASN'T GONNA LIVE THERE. SO I DIDN'T EVEN PAY FOR IT. IT'S IN BLACK AND WHITE. IT'S IN THE MINUTES. IT'S ON TAPE. YOU CAN'T BELIEVE ME. AND IT'S DONE. I'M SORRY. THIS IS A ONE-ON-ONE. THERE'S, THERE'S THE THING. AND LIKE I SAID, IT'S, IT'S ON TAPE. THAT'S WHY I MADE HIM PAY FOR IT. THAT'S THE REASON I MADE HIM PAY FOR IT, BECAUSE THE VEGETATION WASN'T GONNA LET THERE, I MADE HIM RESTORE IT. HE DID IT. HE COULD AND WE MADE HIM PAY FOR IT BECAUSE VEGETATION WAS NOT GONNA GO BACK THERE. YEAH, IT'S, IT, IT, IT'S THERE. AND BLACKING WHITE, IT'S ON THE, IT'S ON THE WHOLE THING. I MADE THE MOTION. I I I'M NOT DISAGREEING WITH ANY OF THAT. NO, THEN I'M CONFUSED. WELL, JUST BECAUSE YOU WERE, YOU PAY FOR THE, UH, LOSS OF VEGETATED WETLANDS DOESN'T MEAN YOU GIVE UP THE JURISDICTION. NO. OF THE VEGETATIVE WETLANDS ARE THE, THE WETLANDS THAT'S THERE NOW. I AGREE. I MADE YOU PAY FOR IT BECAUSE IT HAD PAID FOR, IT WAS BECAUSE THE VEGETATION WASN'T GONNA GROW THAT MM-HMM . BUT HE'S, THAT'S NOT WHAT THEY'RE BEING TOLD TO ME RIGHT NOW. WELL, JUST TO BE CLEAR, HE SAYS A FINE, IT'S NOT A FINE, IT WAS IN LIEU OF FEE. IT'S SITTING RIGHT THERE IN BLACK AND WHITE. IF THAT MEANS NOTHING, THEN I'M JUST CRAZY. WELL, OKAY, SO MY POINT WAS ONLY THAT AT LEAST I THOUGHT THERE WAS A SUGGESTION THAT NOW BICK WAS ENTITLED TO DO THIS 'CAUSE THEY HAD PAID THAT. MM-HMM. AND, AND, AND THAT, THAT WAS MY ONLY POINT, IS THAT I THOUGHT THAT WAS THE REMAINING ISSUE WAS WHETHER OR NOT THEY WERE ENTITLED TO COVER UP OR AFFECT THESE WETLANDS BECAUSE OF WHAT HAD HAPPENED BACK IN JANUARY. AND MY SUGGESTION IS, IS THE, THOSE ARE TWO VERY DIFFERENT THINGS. I'M NOT SAYING IT'S ENTITLED. OKAY. I'M SAYING IT'S NOT, YOU'RE SAYING IT'S A FINE, IT'S NOT A FINE, IT'S IN LIEU OF FEE. IT'S WRITTEN THERE IN BLACK AND WHITE. I MADE HIM PAY FOR IT BECAUSE THAT VEGETATION WAS NOT GONNA GROW AND HE HAD TO RESTORE IT. THAT'S THE DOUBLE THING. THAT WAS THE DOUBLE THING. HE'S RESTORED IT. YOU ALL ADMITTED IT. IT'S WETLAND'S THERE. ALRIGHT. IT'S RESTORED WETLAND'S. WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE IF YOU CALL IT A FINE OR IT'S, WE'RE NOT EVEN ADDRESSING THAT ISSUE. I GUESS THE QUESTION IS, WHO WAS THE CHECK WRITTEN OUT TO? I MEAN, IS THIS, ISN'T THERE MAP COUNTY WEAPON? I MEAN TO THE, FOR THE, UH, IN LOW FEE FUND, THAT'S WHERE A CHECK IS MADE OUT TO. OKAY, I GOT A CHECK HERE. OKAY. ALRIGHT. SO IT'S, IF IT'S MADE OUT TO, IT'S NOT A FINE, IT'S MADE OUT FOR THE, FOR, FOR THE RECOVERABLE WETLANDS LOSS, LOSS OF VEGETATIVE WETLANDS. MM-HMM . OKAY. SO LET'S, LET'S ASSUME YOU ARE CORRECT AND IT IS PAID, IT IS FINISHED. UH, NOW WHAT'S NEXT WITH THIS AMENDED? JPA, DO YOU HAVE ANY OTHER FUTURE COMMENT? A VIOLATION THEORETICALLY HAS BEEN CURED [00:45:01] AND THERE IS A AMENDED JPA, SO SO IN JANUARY, UM, OF COURSE THE BULKHEAD WAS TAKEN BACK AND THAT VIOLATION WAS COMPLETELY TAKEN CARE OF AT THAT TIME. YES, SIR. SO NOW WE HAVE A NEW VIOLATION, WHICH WAS, UH, THAT THIS WAS CONSTRUCTED WITHOUT A PERMIT. UM, THIS IS AN AFTER THE FACT. JPA. YEP. AND THAT IT IS OVER WETLANDS. UM, I WOULD SUGGEST THAT WE HAVE SEEN IT'S OVER WETLANDS AND NOW THE BOARD, UM, HAS A COUPLE DECISIONS TO MAKE. NUMBER ONE, WHETHER TO DETERMINE WHETHER THIS IS EXEMPT AS MULTI-USER OR IT NEEDS A HEARING AS A MULTI-USER. UH, NUMBER TWO, WHETHER THIS IS ACTUALLY A PEER OR SOMETHING ELSE. AND THEN NUMBER THREE, IF THE BOARD DETERMINES THAT THIS IS NOT A PERMITTED USE AND IS OVER WETLANDS, THAT IT, UH, THAT, UH, AT LEAST, AT LEAST FROM WHAT I UNDERSTOOD AT THE LAST HEARING WAS WHETHER OR NOT THAT HAD ALREADY BEEN PAID OR NOT. AND I'M SUGGESTING THAT FOR THIS NEW VIOLATION THAT THOSE WETLANDS HAVE, THAT THE BOARD WOULD NEED NEW COMPENSATION FOR THOSE WETLANDS FOR THIS NEW VIOLATION. UM, SO THOSE, SO THOSE ARE THE ISSUES THAT I SEE BEFORE THE BOARD. CAN I, CAN I DO SOMETHING MR. CHAIRMAN? UH, NO. HOLD ON. . UM, IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE REGARDING, UH, THE NEW COMPENSATION? DO YOU WANT TO TELL US OF WHAT? SQUARE FOOTAGE, ANYTHING LIKE THAT? UM, 240 SQUARE FEET. THAT'S RIGHT. OKAY. SO IF YOU'LL ALLOW, UH, MR. BRITTON, YOUR TIME'S COMING. GO AHEAD EUGENE WAYNE, SEE IF YOU AGREE OR DISAGREE WITH THAT. IN VIRGINIA, A PRIVATE DOCK, NON-COMMERCIAL, PETER OVERSTATE OWNED SUBMERGED LANDS. DO YOU, DO YOU, ARE YOU TELLING ME THAT THAT, THAT WE JUST SEEN IT LOW TIDE IT. WHO OWES THAT PROPERTY? I KNOW Y'ALL HAVE JURISDICTION, I PROMISE YOU I KNOW THAT. BUT WHO OWNS, WHO OWNS ITS NAME ON STATE OWNED PROPERTY? BUT THAT'S HIS, THAT LO THAT THAT'S HIS, UH, MARSHAL, I MEAN HIS, UH, NOT, UH, G DAN'S SOBA. YEAH, SO WELL, HIS NAME WELL CALL SUB ON LOW TIDE. IT'S, HE PHYSICALLY OWNS, WHAT IS YOUR POINT? UH, WHO OWNS IT? I HAVE THE TAX MAP HERE THAT SHOWS THE PARCEL. HE OWNS IT, RIGHT? YOU AGREE? YES. JUST LIKE, JUST ABOUT EVERYBODY. BUT EVEN LIKE I SAY, YEAH, VIRGINIA PRIVATE DOCK, THIS IS, EVEN OVERSTATE OWNS . HE, HE WOULD OWN IT JUST LIKE ANYBODY BASED ON WHAT SAYING. RIGHT. BUT WHAT I'M SAYING, THERE'S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN PRIVATE DOCKET, PUBLIC DOCK, PRIVATE DOCK, NONCOMMERCIAL, PEOPLE OVER STATE OWNED, WHICH THIS INDICATES IT'S HIS OWN, UH, BASICALLY WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, UH, OWNED SUBMERGED LANDS FOR, UH, NON-COMMERCIAL USE, BUT NOT OPEN TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC, LIKE YOU SAID, TOWN OF SHANK TANK JUST BOUGHT A PARK THERE. TWO AND A QUARTER ACRES. I GUARANTEE HE'LL HAVE A SIGN THERE NOT OPEN TO THE PUBLIC BECAUSE WE'D BE OUT THERE USING IT. UH, A BIG PART. I'M SURE THAT'S, LIKE I SAID, IF IT WAS OPEN TO THE PUBLIC, EVERYBODY ON THAT, THAT'S USING THAT TWO AND A QUARTER, UH, ACRE PARK WE JUST BOUGHT, WE'D BE USING HIS DOCK . KNOW WHAT I'M SAYING? IT'LL BE A PRIVATE, IT'LL BE A PRIVATE SIGN. THERE ARE, I'M SURE THAT PROCESS. SO IN NORTH HAMPTON COUNTY, I KNOW THEY TREAT A MULTI-USER DOCK AS A, UH, THEY, IT IS NOT EXEMPT. UM, MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT MANY OTHER COUNTIES IN VIRGINIA TREAT MULTI USERS IS NOT EXEMPT, BUT SOME DO. AND, AND THAT IS AT THE BOARD'S DISCRETION AS TO HOW IT WANTS TO HANDLE THAT. AS OF THIS MINUTE, THAT HAS BEEN HOW WE'VE BEEN DOING IT THOUGH, RIGHT? YES. UH, YEAH. THAT AND, AND, UH, THAT'S MY UNDERSTANDING. YES. AND, AND I HAD A CONVERSATION WITH VMRC ABOUT THIS SEVERAL MONTHS AGO, AND THEN SINCE THE LAST MEETING, I WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT I HAVE REPORTED THAT CORRECTLY. UM, BUT IT WAS MY UNDERSTANDING THAT'S HOW THE BOARD'S TREATED IN THE PAST. I JUST WANTED TO BRING THAT ISSUE UP. UM, BECAUSE IT DOESN'T GET BEFORE THE BOARD VERY OFTEN. HANK UH, I WANT YOU TO HOLD UP. I KNOW YOU'VE GOT SOMETHING TO DO. ALRIGHT. THANK YOU SIR. UM, UH, REPRESENTING, UH, BIC IS MR. RAYMOND BRITTON JR. UH, SIT WHERE YOU ARE. DO YOU AFFIRM OR SWEAR YOU TELL THE TRUTH, WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH IN ALL MATTERS BEFORE THIS BOARD, I DO STAY WHERE YOU ARE. PLEASE SPEAK UP OR PULL THAT DOWN OR SOMETHING. UH, WE WERE PERMITTED FOR 300 AND, UH, 50 FOOT, SIX FOOT WIDE FIELD. ALMOST THE S BOTTOM RIGHT. WE ONLY BUILT 265 FOOT OF IT, RIGHT? SO WE LEFT THE OTHER 90 FEET OUT THERE. I DIDN'T TOUCH IT. WE CAME BACK WHEN WE MADE US MOVE TO BULKHEAD, WHICH WAS DONE BY MISTAKE, I WAS OUT OF TOWN. MY BOYS DID IT. NOT KNOWING THAT IT WAS WRONG. WE, AS SOON AS BETH CALLED MY ATTENTION TO HER, I IMMEDIATELY SAID, I'LL DO WHAT YOU SAY. AND WE MOVED IT. THAT PUT A PIER OUTSIDE OF THE BULKHEAD. I SAID, WELL, I CAN EXTEND IT. PIER BACK IN 1521 FEET JUST CHANGED MY STARTING POINT. I'M STILL NOT EXCEEDING [00:50:01] THE 350 FEET THAT I WAS ALLOWED. I'M ONLY UP TO 290 FEET DOWN. SO WE ENCLOSED THAT LITTLE, HAD THOSE PIECES THERE ABOUT SIX FOOT BY 15, THERE WOULD'VE BEEN A GAP IN THERE. SO WE DECKED OVER. IT WOULD'VE BEEN PERMITTED IF IT HAD BEEN ALL THE WAY ACROSS THE MARSH TO MAIN STREET. WE DO 'EM ALL THE TIME ACROSS THE MARSH. IT'S A NOT, IT'S, IT'S A PERMITTED NO PERMIT REQUIRED THING TO BEGIN WITH. AND WHILE WE'RE HERE, I DON'T KNOW IF THESE PEOPLE CAN MAKE DECISIONS WITHOUT TRYING TO LOOK FOR A VIOLATION EVERY TIME THEY COME OUT. IT WOULD BE A WHOLE LOT OF STUFF IN THE WORLD FOR, BUT THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN. IT DOESN'T HAPPEN. ALRIGHT. AS SOON AS THEY WALK OUT, IT'D BE, YOU GOTTA TAKE IT OUT. IT'S NOT WHAT HAPPENED, WHAT CAN WE DO? IT'S TAKE IT OUT. THAT WAS THE FIRST THING THAT THE BMRC GIRL SAID, YOU'RE GONNA TAKE THIS OUT. I SAID, HOLD ON A MINUTE. I, I HAD A PERMIT FOR 350 FOOT ON MY BUILDING. I'M, I'M AT 300 SQUARE FOOT LESS IMPACTS RIGHT NOW. WHICH THE PROJECT, LIKE THE SEX THAT I WAS ALLOWED TO DO, THERE'S NO TRADE OFF. THEN I MADE AN AMENDED PERMIT WHEN WE HAD A BORROW FOR THE PROJECT, GO BUY A HOUSE TO WHOLE PROPERTY. HE WENT ON FOR THREE MONTHS. HE COULDN'T GET HIS FINANCING WITH THE AMOUNT OF MONEY. THAT CHANGED EVERYTHING. THAT CHANGED EVERYTHING. THEN I WAS TOLD I HAD TO REAPPLY, AMENDED PERMIT TO CHANGE IT TO A COMMERCIAL BEER. FINE. I DID THAT. THEN I SENT OVER ANOTHER ONE SHOWED WHERE WE CAME IN, TIED IN HERE LIKE THIS FOR PERMIT TO DO THAT. AND ALL I WROTE IS A VIOLATION NOT LOOKING AT BEFORE WE'RE GOING TO GIVE A PERMIT ORDER OR NOT. WOULD IT HAVE BEEN, IT WOULD'VE BEEN PERMITTED IF, IF IT HADN'T ALL, ALL THE USES HADN'T CHANGED. THAT'S IN THE MINUTES. SAME THING YOU SAID BEFORE. YEAH. IT'S, IT'S JUST, OKAY. IT'S FRUSTRATING THAT YOU DON'T HAVE ANYBODY THAT CAN COME OUT IN THE FIELD AND SAY, WELL, YOU, YOU, YOU GAVE UP ALL THIS OUT HERE. WE'LL TRADE OFF HERE. SEND US A NEW DRAWING. SHOW WHERE YOU'RE GOING TO TIE IN AT NOW. IT WOULD'VE BEEN PERMITTED ANYWAY. IS IS THE SAD PART ABOUT IT. ALRIGHT, SIR, ANYTHING ELSE? NOT RIGHT NOW. UH, IS THERE, GO AHEAD, SIR. UM, MR. WATSON, I WOULD SAY THAT, I MEAN THIS, THIS IS A VERY SIMPLE PROCESS. BEFORE YOU BUILD, YOU NEED A PERMIT. WE NEED THE PLANS AND, AND, AND MR. BRIT AND SEVERAL TIMES IS BUILT WITHOUT, YOU KNOW, BILL, NOT ACCORDING TO THE PERMITS OR BUILT EVEN, YOU KNOW, THIS MODIFICATION DIDN'T EVEN COME TO US AND SUBMIT ANYTHING. SO, I MEAN, I, I UNDERSTAND. I'M NOT EXACTLY SURE WHAT WE'RE SUPPOSED TO DO WHEN HE NEVER NOTIFIES US BEFORE HE DOES SOMETHING LIKE HE'S REQUIRED TO DO. UH, YOU JUST MADE A STATEMENT. YOU MAY HAVE TO BACK UP WHAT HE JUST MADE A STATEMENT. HE MAY HAVE TO BACK US UP. I BEEN BUILDING IT WITHOUT PERMITS. WELL, YOU BUILT THIS WITHOUT, NO, I HAVE A PERMIT, BUT 350 FOOT ALL CHANGE WOULD BE WHERE IT STARTED. OKAY. AND WE'RE NOT GOING TO BEAT THAT LITTLE ASPECT TO DEATH. UH, YOU CAN TAKE THAT UP BEHIND CLOSED DOORS IF YOU CHOOSE UHHUH. JUST SAID'S THE FIRST TIME CONSTRUCTION. ALL, ALL RIGHT, SIR. IS THERE, UH, ANYONE ELSE, MS. GORMAN, THAT WISHES TO SPEAK ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR AMENDED? JPA? IF YOU HAVE SPECIFIC QUESTIONS, I CAN ANSWER THEM. ANYONE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR MS. GORMAN? YES. YES I DO. YES. WOULD YOU APPROACH, PLEASE DO YOU FIRM OR SWEAR YOU TELL THE TRUTH, WHOLE TRUTH, NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH IN ALL MATTERS BEFORE THIS BOARD? YES, SIR. THANK YOU MS. CLAIRE GORMAN. CARRY ON, SIR. SO WHAT MY BIG CONCERN HERE IS SETTING A PRECEDENT WHERE SOMEONE MITIGATES WETLANDS AND THEY BUILD OVER IT. AND I GUESS FROM MY VIEW IS FROM YOUR EXPERIENCE, HAVE YOU EVER SEEN A SITUATION LIKE THIS WHERE THERE'S A MITIGATION, THERE'S WETLANDS AND THEN SOMEONE JUST GOES AHEAD AND BUILDS A PIER OR A RAMP OR WHATEVER OVER TOP OF IT? DO YOU, YOU GET MY GIST OF MY QUESTION? I'M NOT SURE I I FOLLOW YOUR, SO YOU'RE ASKING IF I'VE SEEN CASES WHERE A BOARD HAS REQUIRED MITIGATION FOR SHADING OF WETLANDS. YES. LET'S GO WITH THAT. YES. IN TERMS OF, UM, YOU HAVE THE WETLANDS THERE, YOU PAY MITIGATION AND YOU WEREN'T EXPECTING SOMEONE TO BUILD SOMETHING OVER TOP OF THOSE WETLANDS PAYING. SO I, I I JUST, I DO WANNA MAKE THE POINT THAT I AGREE THAT IT'S KIND OF A MUTE POINT NOW AS TO WHETHER OR NOT THIS IS CALLED MITIGATION OR A FINE. I AM ON THE SAME PAGE. PAUL AND I ARE ON THE SAME PAGE. AS FAR AS LIKE THE SEMANTICS OF MITIGATION VERSUS, VERSUS A FINE, THIS WAS MITIGATION WAS NOT PAID FOR THESE WETLANDS. IT WAS A FINE BECAUSE YOU CANNOT PAY AN IN LIEU FEE OR MITIGATION FOR SOMETHING THAT IS A VIOLATION. BUT IT DOESN'T CHANGE THE NATURE OF THIS. OKAY. OF THIS, [00:55:01] OF THIS STRUCTURE. DOES THAT, YOU JUST SAID IT DOES NOT, IT, I, IN MY OPINION IT DOESN'T CHANGE THE, THIS THIS SCENARIO. I HAVE A QUESTION. WHAT YOU, HOLD ON. ALRIGHT, JUST SO ONE MORE LAST, SO INITIALLY THE MITIGATION, WELL WE CALL IT MITIGATION, CORRECT? THIS, WHATEVER, IT'S HOW MANY SQUARE FEET WAS THAT INITIALLY? OH, I DON'T RECALL. IT'S ONE 62ND. CAN I HAVE THAT PAPERWORK BACK TOO? THIS, I'VE GOT THE MINUTES. THANK YOU. OKAY. I'VE GOT THE MINUTES FROM THAT MEETING. OKAY. SO WAS IT A HUNDRED, YOU SAID A HUNDRED SIXTY ONE OH EIGHT. 1 0 8. AND NOW WHAT? I HEARD THAT IT'S 240 SQUARE 40. CORRECT. OKAY. ALRIGHT. I, THAT'S WHAT HE SAID. WELL, OKAY. I, OH RIGHT. 'CAUSE THE BULK HAD ONLY DIDN'T GO OUT QUITE AS, QUITE AS FAR, I GUESS, BUT ALL RIGHT. BUT I DON'T THINK THAT CHANGES ANYTHING HERE. WELL, I'M JUST LOOKING, LOOKING AT THE MM-HMM . OKAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. BOARD. ANY QUESTIONS FROM MS. GOMAN? NO. OKAY. UH, MR. TAYLOR. OKAY, BACK, BACK TO, BACK TO YOUR QUESTION. UH, IF, IF WE GAVE JUNIOR A FINE, WHERE WOULD THAT MONEY GO? I BELIEVE THIS WENT TO THE COUNTY. NOW IF WE GAVE HIM A FINE TO THE COUNTY EITHER WAY. OKAY. SO THIS, THIS IN LIEU OF FEE DID NOT GO TO THE RESTORATION AND TO THE, TO THE, UH, WETLANDS BOARDS ACCOUNT FOR RESTORING WETLANDS. I DON'T KNOW WHERE YOUR, YOUR FUNDS GO, WHETHER IT'S AN IN LIEF FEE OR A VIOLATION. UH, WHY WOULD THE IN LIE FEE GO? IT WOULD GO TO DIFFERENT PLACES. THEY'RE NOT, YOU'RE NOT GONNA TAKE FINE MONEY AND PUT IT INTO RESTORATION OF WETLANDS. THAT'S, THAT'S THE COUNTY'S OKAY. PAUL LOGISTICS, IT'S NOT QUESTION YOU, WHERE DID THAT MONEY GO? UM, FROM ALL INDICATIONS. IT WENT TO THE, I MEAN, I, I WOULD SAY THAT IT, FROM WHAT I KNOW NOW, IT WENT TO THE IN LIE FUND AND THAT WAS PROBABLY A MISTAKE. AND I WILL SAY, WELL, NO, I WILL SAY MOST MUNICIPALITIES, WHETHER IT'S A FINE OR AN IN LIEU FEE, IT USUALLY GOES INTO THE SAME LOCATION. BUT I DON'T KNOW SPECIFICALLY FOR AKIMA COUNTY HOW THAT WORKS. NO. AND HOW, HOW DO WE FIND OUT FOR AN ABSOLUTE FACT WHERE IT WENT? UM, I COULD PROBABLY GO FIND OUT IN JUST A FEW MINUTES. UH, GO AHEAD. SHOULD BE, IT SHOULD BE A RECEIPT IN OUR INTER GO SYSTEM. UM, I SAY WE HAVE A, WE HAVE A, WOULD YOU DO THAT? SHOW US OR LET US KNOW AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. UM, IF YOU WANNA TAKE ABOUT A FIVE MINUTE, MAYBE WE TAKE A FIVE MINUTE RECESS. JUNIOR, YOU ARE OKAY FOR A FEW MINUTES. UH, WE'RE TAKING A FIVE MINUTE RECESS. OKAY. UH, DON'T, DON'T LEAVE HANK 'CAUSE YOU HAVE A QUESTION OR TWO. OH. OH, I'M SORRY. I THOUGHT WE WERE DOING, DOING THE FIVE MINUTE RECESS. YOU CAN YOU GO BACK. HIT THE HEAD BABY. OKAY. GEORGE WARD. I KNOW YOU GOTTA GO. WELL, NOT REALLY, BUT I CAN. THIS ONE'S EASY. I PROBABLY WILL JUST IN CASE YOU PLEASE. JUST DON'T, DON'T, DON'T GO ACROSS THE DESK. YOU'RE NOT IN GO BATHROOM. DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT. WOW. SO, UH, HAS THE FIRE DEPARTMENT SPENT ALL THEIR MONEY? THE ALL ITS MILLIONS THEY MADE ON PENALTY PENDING. I HOPE. LAST WEEK, LAST MONTH I WAS ASKING MYSELF. I WORKED, I WORKED WITH KIDS WITH HIS GRANDSON. STARTED WORKING WITH, THAT'S A GOOD BOY. GREAT, GREAT YOUNG MAN. WORK WITH MY KIDS. I TELL MYSELF I'M 65-YEAR-OLD, I NEED TO JUST TURN THIS OVER TO WEST AFTER LEAVING HERE. I'M LIKE, NAH, I STILL LIKE KIDS. WAY BETTER. I DO ADULTS . I OF US DO. I'M SERIOUS. LIKE, YOU KNOW, WHEN I, WHEN I WAS, UH, FIRST TIME I RAN FOR COUNCIL, I WAS IN MY COACHING LITTLE LEAGUE AND UH, I HAD A GAME THAT NIGHT. SO ASKED, IT WAS A DEBATE. I ASKED HER THAT LITTLE FIRST. SO ONE OF MY QUESTIONS, WELL, IF YOU HAVE A LITTLE BIG BASEBALL GAME WHERE YOU HAVE A A TOWN COUNCIL GAME, WHICH ONE YOU GONNA GO TO? I SAID, THIS IS EASY. I SAID, I'M NOT GONNA LIE TO YOU AT THE JOB. I'M GOING TO THE BALLGAME. I'M MUCH, I'M MUCH GONNA SPEND TIME WITH THE KIDS THAN, THAN THAN A BUNCH OF POLITICIANS. THIS WAS EASY. MY, MY GRANDCHILDREN ACROSS THE BAY ARE INTO EVERYTHING FROM DANCE TO SOCCER'S TO RUNNING. UH, THEY'VE GOT A, NOW THEY'VE GOT A THING NOW IN THEIR MIDDLE SCHOOL CALLED GIRLS ON THE RUN AND IT'S ABOUT 15 OF 'EM. YEAH. OH YEAH. THAT'S A BIG PROGRAM THEY RUN. THAT'S A BIG PROGRAM. SHE DOES FIVE, SIX MILES. SHE'S 11 YEARS OLD. YEAH. THAT'S A BIG, THAT'S A BIG, ACTUALLY THAT'S NOT THAT BIG. THEY DID THE, UH, THING ON THE BEACH, UH, ON THE BOARDWALK. UH, 25,000 PEOPLE THAT DID IT. AND HER DADDY IS A A, A NEW ZEALAND UP, UPCOMING GENERAL THAT GAVE IT UP TO [01:00:01] COME HERE. AND SHE, HE PACES HER AND, UH, SHE, SHE CAN GO. I'D LOVE TO, I'D RATHER WATCH HIM PLAY SPORTS THAN EAT WHEN I'M HUNGRY. MM-HMM . KEEP A MINUTE. KEEP A MINUTE. ALRIGHT. WE'RE WAITING ON MR. WATSON, I BELIEVE. YEAH. ALRIGHT. ONE THING I CAN TELL YOU IS MONEY AND MITIGATION THE SAME, SAME FUND. , THEY DON'T GO THROUGH GENERAL FUNDS. IT SHOULDN'T. THEY DON'T. THERE'S A CERTAIN AMOUNT. WE GOT A CERTAIN AMOUNT. WE GOT LIKE 160 SOME THOUSAND DOLLARS IN OUR FUND BEFORE THEY, UH, THEY NEED TO ACQUIRE A TRUST FUND. TOOK IT FROM US SITTING RIGHT HERE. WE GOT THAT IN OUR ACCOUNT. WE GOT $160,000 FOR, FOR RESTORING WET MASKS. YEP. RIGHT NOW YOU TAKE IT. I'M WORKING WITH A LADY RIGHT NOW. WHAT? WHAT? WE'RE WORKING WITH A LADY ON RECEIPT. CREATE A WETLANDS BACK. YEAH. UH, STACK. ANY REST NON TITLE OR TITLE? TITLE, TITLE? IT'S UH, RUSSELL'S HOUSE UP ON MAIN STREET. OH YEAH, YEAH, YEAH, YEAH. THAT WHOLE FRONT YARD. THIS LADY'S BOUGHT A LOT. WELL THAT'S THE PERFECT PLACE TO DO IT. THAT'S A PERFECT PLACE TO DO BECAUSE YOU ALWAYS DO. YEAH. CANAL. YOU ALWAYS DO IT ADJACENT TO IT JUST FAIRLY HIGH LAND. YOU DO THE LAND AND STRIP IT DOWN TO THAT. IT HAS THE BEST CHANCE OF WINNING, OF SURVIVAL AND IT'S PROTECTED. MM-HMM . IT WON'T, SEED'S NOT GONNA TAKE IT ONCE YOU DO IT. AND, UH, BUT IN CONTACT CC GENTLEMAN, BM RC AND SHE'S THINKING ABOUT, UH, AT $26 A SQUARE FOOT, DO THE WHOLE CUT THE HOUSE DOWN AND DO IT. 'CAUSE THAT'S A LOT OF MONEY. TAKE THE HALF. SHE GONNA TAKE THAT WHOLE FRONT YARD. BUT YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT I'M SAYING? DO THAT, DO THAT MATH. $26 TIMES IS 43,200 SOME SQUARE FOOT JUST DO FOUR, 3000. IT'D ABOVE YOUR MIND. WELL, WELL, I THOUGHT IT WAS LIKE THEY, THEY CAME UP A MILLION DOLLARS PER ACRE. I THOUGHT IT WAS LIKE 22 WHEN YOU DO THIS. I DON'T HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH CHARGING PEOPLE. I'M SERIOUS. I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM. BUT PROBLEM IS, LIKE YOU SAID, IF YOU DO IT, YOU BETTER HAVE A REASON TO DO IT. YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? YOU BETTER HAVE A REAL REASON. IT'S A GREAT, UH, GREAT THING. AND PARTICULARLY THERE, UH, PEOPLE CAN PAY INTO IT. IT'S A WIN-WIN. IT APPEARS TO ME. YOU REALLY DO UNDERSTAND WHAT I'M SAYING ABOUT THIS. YEAH. YES I DO. BUT THERE'S A WAY TO GO ABOUT IT. MM-HMM . THERE'S A WAY WE'RE GONNA GO ABOUT IT. OKAY. GONNA JUST COME ACROSS THE DESK. WE'RE NOT SELLING TOMATOES. , MAN, OLD MAN. THE FIRST COMPLAINT, I THOUGHT IT WAS A JOKE. DAMN JOKE. IT AIN'T A JOKE. UH, THE FIRST COMPLAINT. WOW. YEAH, WE MADE SOME WETLANDS ON WHEN JERRY TRACY WAS HERE WHEN YOU BUILT SUNSET BAY, BUILT A BIT WETLANDS IN JERRY TRACY WENT UP, WIL AND I MADE BLOWING SOME LANDS OUT. YEAH, I REMEMBER THAT. IT MADE WETLANDS OUT. THIS DID WELL, DID THAT CANAL ABOUT JUST ENOUGH WARM. IT DID REAL WELL. YEAH. YEAH. I REMEMBER THAT. I THINK DAVE'S DON'T KNOW WHAT SUBDIVISIONS ARE, AIN'T HE? YEAH. DAVE DAVE'S GOOD. DAVE'S GOOD BOY TOO. I GIVE HIM A 13 ACRES. YEAH. THEY, THESE, THESE GOOD, UH, VERY, VERY EXCELLENT, UH, CARPENTER, VERY EXCELLENT CARPENTER WHO GAVE IT. YEAH. NOT BECAUSE HE'S MY SON. THERE IS NO CARPENTER TOUCH. YEAH, I'VE, I'VE HEARD SON. I CALL DON'T CARE WHO YOU ARE. I DON'T BELIEVE THAT. . I'LL FIGURE, I'LL TELL YOU. THAT'S WHY I DON'T TEXT. I DON'T EMAIL. I TELL YOU SOMETHING. I BE FACE THAT . I WANT YOU TO KNOW. I MEANT, AND NO PAPER TRAIL, HUH? . YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT. JUNIOR. YOU GONNA PUT A FENCE DOWN THAT LINE ON THAT LINE BUYING, BUT BETWEEN, UH, TOWN AND MM-HMM . THAT I'M NOT, WE ARE PROBABLY, THAT'S WHAT I WAS ASKING YOU WAS TRYING TO SAVE SOME MONEY. . YEAH. Y'ALL ENDED UP BUYING, YOU ENDED UP BUYING IT, DIDN'T YOU? THAT'S WHAT I THOUGHT. I GOT A LADY NOW THAT SHE BOUGHT RUSSELL OVER'S HOUSE. SHE BOUGHT THE OTHER HOUSE, BUNK HILL THAT, UH, UM, DICK COTTON BUILT MM-HMM . ONE BUILT AND SHE BOUGHT THE HOUSE ACROSS THE COAST AND SHE JUST BOUGHT 13 ACRES OF LAND FROM TO WETLANDS. $200,000 ON THEY ALL ROAD. OH. THEY, THAT THEY'RE ACROSS FROM THE, UH, UH, WHAT DO YOU CALL THAT, HARBOR, DOWN BY THE HARBOR. MM-HMM . ANYWAY, SHE WANTS TO BUY MY HOUSE NOW, ALL THE LAND. SO SHE PUT HER PONIES OUT IN THE FRONT YARD AND I'LL ROLL [01:05:01] AROUND AND PEOPLE CAN COME TELL THEM SHE WANTS PAY SAID MILLION DOLLARS. WELL, ONCE SHE DOES THAT, I CAN, I CAN PLAY LEGAL BIGGLE ON THIS ONE. I CAN PLAY LEGAL BIGGLE ON THIS. I'VE HAD TO STAY, UH, UH, LAND LAW MY WHOLE LIFE. YOU KNOW THAT YOU KNOW THE REASON WHY TOO, NOT 'CAUSE I WANTED TO, BUT THIS IS EASY. IF SHE BUYS THE WHOLE THING, YOU DROP TWO LOT LINES. THIS IS LEGAL. YEAH. . SHE, SHE, YOU KNOW, SHE'S RIGHT NOW SHE'S, SHE DON'T WANT, SHE DON'T WANT, SHE DON'T WANT THREE LOT. SHE WANTS THE WHOLE THING FOR PUT APO IN. YEAH. SHE WANTS, SHE WANTS A HOUSE TO LIVE IN AND SHE WANTS TO, SO SHE, SHE'S NOT, SHE'S NOT GONNA PUT HOUSES ON THE OTHER TWO LOT. SHE GOT SPECIAL HORSES SHE'S GOT FROM ROSE. SHE'S ONLY GOT SIX OF 'EM. SO THEY CAN ROLL THE ONES AND PEOPLE CAN COME UP AND PAT THEM AND HAND FEED THEM. OH. YOU WILL HAVE PEOPLE TO FEED 'EM. WHERE'S SHE HAIL FROM? SHE SAID, LOOK, SHE'S FROM CALIFORNIA OR ORIGINALLY, BUT SHE'S FROM UP AROUND WASHINGTON. NOW MY UNDERSTANDING WAS HER EX-HUSBAND OR DEAD, DEAD HUSBAND OR WHERE IT WAS, HAD A LOT OF APPLE STOCK AND THEY SOLD THAT. THAT'LL DO IT. YEAH. I SHOULD. AND SHE GOTTA DO SOMETHING WITH THE MONEY AND SHE JUST BEEN BUYING EVERYTHING WHICH THEY DOLLAR. YEAH. GOT SPEND THIS PROPERTY I'VE GOTTEN, IN FACT, I WAS OVER THE PHONE WITH HER THIS MORNING. SHE'S ALREADY BOUGHT THE MARSH BESIDE YOU. SHE'S ALREADY BOUGHT THE MARSH BESIDE YOU. SHE HAS ALREADY BOUGHT THE MARSH BESIDE YOU. OH. OH. I BOUGHT HILL THAT ONE. OH. SHE AIN'T BOURBAGE STILL ON THAT ONE. STILL ON THAT ONE. WELL GET BOURBAGE AND SELL TO MARSH THEN THAT SHE'LL BE SURE TO BUY THAT YOURS THEN IF SHE'S INTERESTED. SHE, IF SHE, IF SHE, IF SHE WANTS TO FEED PEOPLE, FEED HORSES, SHE'S IN A PERFECT PLACE THERE. WE'RE GONNA DO APARTMENTS. SHE CAN FEED 'EM ALL DAY LONG. BUT SHE, SHE, THAT'S WHAT SHE, THAT'S HER GOAL IS TO HAVE A PLACE TO FEED HER HORSES AND KEEP 'EM NICE TO HAVE MONEY. I GUESS SHE'S, UH, SHE'S WAITING ON THAT HER ACCOUNT TO TELL HER SHE CAN BUY IF SHE SHOULD BUY ANY MORE PROPERTY. BUT SHE SAYS SHE MAY GO AGAINST HIM AND DO IT ANYWAY. YEAH. I THINK PROPERTY GONNA BETTER FOR FEET OF HORSES. WELL SHE COULD'VE HELPED THE COUNTY. I I MEAN THE, UH, BOUGHT THAT PROPERTY FOR HIM. RIGHT. THE ONE THAT Y'ALL BOUGHT AND GIVING IT TO THE KIND TO THE TIRE HORSE APART. THERE YOU GO. CHARGE, HERE WE GO. THOSE LITTLE MACHINES THAT YOU GET SOME BOSS FEED . I HAD SOME OF THEM AT THE RESTAURANT FEEDS YOUR DUCKS WITH YOU DID. YEAH. YOU PUT YOUR MONEY INTO THE BUBBLE CUP MACHINE. THAT'S RIGHT. PUT THE QUARTER. YOU GOT A HANDFUL OF CORN. YEAH. RIGHT BESIDE MCDONALD'S IS WHERE YOU MM-HMM . AND THEY USED TO FEED THE DUCK UP THE END WITH WE HAD THE RESTAURANT. THAT'S RIGHT. SURPRISED HOW MUCH QUARTERS THAT THING FILLING UP EVERY DAY IF YOU'RE IN THE RIGHT SPOT. I TOLD MY GIRLFRIEND WHAT THESE ALL THE TOWN, YOU KNOW, OUR KIDS ARE GONNA GO, OH, DADDY, MAMA AND THE DUCK WERE SO TAM THAT IT WOULD COME AROUND YOUR FEET. THEY EAT RIGHT BETWEEN YOUR LEGS AND YOUR FEET, BUT ALL THE SHOES MM-HMM . BECAUSE THEY'RE USED TO GETTING FED THERE. YEAH. IT'S LIKE FOR DEER IN PENNSYLVANIA. MY HOUSE UP FOREVER. MY SON DAVID FEEDS, SO EVERY TIME HE GOES UP CORN THAT WE FEED WHEN WE GO, HE'S GOTTA BEATING OUTTA HIS HAND. I BELIEVE IT. THERE WAS A DEER COMING RIGHT UP, RIGHT UP HIS HAND. AND THEIR BIGGEST COWS UP THERE ARE DEER IN PENNSYLVANIA ARE, I HAD TWO, TWO EIGHTS AND A 10 OF COURSE WHERE I LIVE. EVERYBODY'S GOT THOSE, UH, SCREW ON, UH, SPONSORS ON THE, ON THE RIFLES. YEAH. THEY, THEY DIDN'T MAKE IT. HE DIDN'T EVEN MAKE IT HUNTING SEASON . I TOLD, I TOLD, I TOLD THE BILLY, I SAID, DON'T BE SHOOTING, BUT GARY, YOU BETTER PENCIL SOME IN. JEEZ. BUT I WAS SURPRISED HE READ DOWN OF HIS HAND LIKE THAT, COME UP TO THE DECK ON THE HOUSE AND HE WAS STANDING THERE AND FEEDING BY HIS HAND. WE GOT MALLARDS. WE FEED THE DUCKS EVERY DAY OFF THE DOCK. WE GOT MALLARDS. THE CHILDREN ARE FEEDING. YEAH. OH. UH, THEY, THE, THE BLACK DUCKS AND THE UH, BUFFALO HEADS WON'T DO IT, BUT THE MALLARDS WILL COME RIGHT UP THERE AND THEY FEED 'EM RIGHT THEIR HAND. THEY'RE NOT SCARED. I GOT A POND BEHIND MY HOUSE AND THE METALS COME IN THERE AND DO HE EVER BIT OF IT OR CLEANED UP UPON EVERY WINTER? IS THAT RIGHT? THEY STAYED THERE EVERY BID OF YOU FEEL LIKE PAYING THEM BY THROWING SOME CORN OR SOMETHING THEY WANT BECAUSE I MEAN THEY DID DO EXTREMELY GOOD JOB. I TELL MY DAUGHTER, DON'T YOU EVEN THINK ABOUT IT SHOOTING THEM DUCKS? DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT. DO WE HAVE A FREEZER UP BACK IN THE SEVEN SIXTIES? I GUESS THEY WERE THE EARLY THE SEVENTIES BAD FREEZE UP. 68 WAS ONE. WE WERE FEEDING THE DUCKS CORN. OLD MAN AND TOM REED LIVED BY A DEPOT. OLD, OLD MAN. MM-HMM . COME. HE SAID, SON, PLEASE DON'T DO THAT. I SAID, HE DON'T FEED THEM DUCKS. YOU GOING KILL THEM. I SAID, WHY AM I GOING KILL 'EM? I THOUGHT YOU NEED TO EAT EVERYTHING SCREWED UP. HE SAID, NO, HE CAN'T GET NO FRESH WATER TO DRINK. IT'S ALL THROUGH HE GONNA KILL HIM. I NEVER THOUGHT OF THAT. . OKAY. UH, I LIKE TO CALL THE MEETING BACK TO ORDER, UH, MR. WATSON, YOU HAVE SOME INFORMATION FOR US. I DO. UM, SO WE RECORDED IT AS A MISCELLANEOUS FEE IN, IN OUR COMPUTER SYSTEM, THE ZONING, BUT THAT DOESN'T REALLY MEAN ANYTHING. UM, AND THE TREASURER CHECKED THE IN LIEU BANK [01:10:01] STATEMENTS. UH, IT LOOKS LIKE WE GOT THE CHECK FEBRUARY THE FOURTH. AND UH, THEY CHECKED THE BANK STATEMENTS FOR THE IN LIEU FUND FOR THE SEVERAL MONTHS, UH, FEBRUARY, MARCH, AND SO FORTH. AND THERE WAS NO DEPOSIT IN THE, IN LIEU FUND BANK ACCOUNT, UH, AT ALL. IT JUST SHOWS INTEREST FOR ALL OF THOSE MONTHS, UM, TO ACTUALLY DETERMINE. AND SO IT LIKELY, THE TREASURER THINKS LIKELY WENT INTO THE COUNTY'S GENERAL FUND AND THAT IS A MUCH MORE DIFFICULT PROCESS TO TRACK DOWN A DEPOSIT, YOU KNOW, 15, 16 MONTHS AGO IN THE GENERAL FUND IN FIVE OR 10 MINUTES. BUT SHE DID PULL, SHE, SHE HAS EASY ACCESS TO THE BANK STATEMENTS FOR THE IN LIEU FUND. IT DID NOT SHOW ANY DEPOSIT AND THE IN LIEU FUND FOR THE SEVERAL MONTHS AFTER WE RECEIVED THIS CHECK AND THAT WE TOOK THE CHECK OVER TO THEM ON FEBRUARY 4TH. ALRIGHT. SO WE THINK THAT IT'S IN THE GENERAL FUND FOR THE COUNTY. THAT'S WHAT WE THINK. YES. THEN IT NEEDS TO BE TRANSFERRED TO, TO OUR BANK. WHAT'S, UH, WHAT'S INVOLVED. THAT SOUNDS LIKE IT'S, UH, A LOT OF WORK. UM, NOT WORK. I'D HAVE TO DO NO, SOMEBODY. UM, BUT I I DO NOT, I CAN CAN WE GET IT DONE? I WOULD THINK IT SHOULDN'T BE TOO HARD. UM, BUT I I DO NOT, I AM NOT ON THE MONEY SIDE OF ALL THIS. I THINK IT, I THINK WE NEED TO ASK THAT QUESTION. I I DON'T THINK THAT WHERE THAT'S WHERE IT NEEDS TO BE. UM, SO WHAT'S THE, WHAT STEPS, WHAT HOPES WE JUMP THROUGH TO TRY TO GET THAT DONE? UM, WELL, I'D GO OVER AND TALK TO THE, TO THE TREASURER JAMES, AND, AND JUST EXPLAIN THE SITUATION. I I, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY IN THE SCOPE OF COUNTY FINANCES, THIS DOESN'T SEEM LIKE A HUGELY SIGNIFICANT, UH, TRANSFER. AND I WOULD THINK WITH A LITTLE BIT OF DIGGING THEY COULD FIND IT'S $1,944. IT'S KIND OF AN ODD NUMBER. I MEAN, THEY'D BE ABLE TO FIND THAT JANE TON. YES, SIR. AND, UM, I MEAN, THEY KNOW WITHIN A WEEK OR SO WHEN IT WOULD'VE BEEN DEPOSITED. SO IT SEEMS LIKE THAT SHOULD NOT BE TOO HARD TO FIND A BANK STATEMENT IN THAT AMOUNT. UM, I'D LIKE, UH, TO ASK YOU TO TALK TO JAMES, AND THIS IS A SLACK TIME FOR THEM IN THE SCHEME OF THINGS BEFORE JUNE. AND I THINK HE'S WILLING TO DO WITHIN REASON, WHATEVER IT TAKES TO MAKE SOMETHING LIKE THIS. RIGHT. I I THEY'RE VERY HELPFUL IF DEPOSIT ON TWO SIX. OKAY, THAT'S HELPFUL TOO. BUT YOU DON'T, YOU JUST KNOW WHEN THE CHECK WAS BOX CHECK, WOULD YOU PLEASE, UH, MAKE ONE MORE CALL ON MR. LITTLETON AND ASK HIM IF HE WOULD HELP US FIND THAT. GET OUTTA THERE. YES. SO NOT NOW BALANCE ON THAT TOO, BECAUSE IT'S LIKE A HUNDRED SOME THOUSAND DOLLARS. HOLD ON JUST A MINUTE. SO THANK YOU FOR THAT INFORMATION. UH, I THINK WE CAN RESOLVE IT NOW. UM, HOW DO WE STAND, UH, MR. BADGER? YEAH. UM, JUST A COUPLE THOUGHTS. UM, SHOULD BE NO FEES INVOLVED IN THIS AS FAR AS MITIGATION FEES FOR, IT'S, IT'S AN OPENS TO PILE STRUCTURE. WE HAVEN'T, THEY HAVEN'T LOST THE WETLANDS UNDERNEATH OF IT. SO THAT'S A NOT IT'S, IT'S DOESN'T NEED, IT DOESN'T NEED TO BE ADDRESSED. YES, SIR. SO THE QUESTION WE REALLY HAVE HERE IS, FIRST OF ALL, IS IT WE, CONSIDERING THIS A PERMITTED STRUCTURE THAT WE NEED TO PERMIT BECAUSE IT'S JOINT USE? UH, IN THE PAST I THINK WE HAVE, UH, JOINT USE. UH, WE CONSIDER SOMETHING SIMILAR TO COMMERCIAL, UH, BUT NOT PRI TOTALLY PRIVATE. SO I THINK WE DO TO BE CONSISTENT WITH WHAT WE'VE DONE IN THE PAST, PROBABLY PERMIT SOMETHING THERE. THEN THE BIG QUESTION IS, IS WHETHER OR NOT THE WIDTH IS, UH, REASONABLE OR NOT. UH, SO THAT'S KIND OF WHERE I AM. IF YOU LOOK AT JUST THE WIDTH, DID YOU SAY WIDTH? THE WIDTH, YES. VERSUS HEIGHT. UH, THE HEIGHT IS HEIGHT. IT DOESN'T MATTER BECAUSE IT'S NON VEGETATED UNDERNEATH. RIGHT. OKAY. SO IT DOESN'T MATTER. UH, SO IF YOU JUST LOOK AT ACTIVITIES IN WETLANDS AUTHORIZED, UH, BY LAW AND, UH, MARINE RESOURCES, WETLANDS, UH, SECTION OF THE CODE, UH, NON-COMMERCIAL. THAT'S THE BIG DIFFERENCE HERE. CATWALKS, PIERS, BOATHOUSES BOAT SHELTERS, FENCES, DUCK LINES, WILDLIFE MANAGEMENT SHELTERS, FOOT BRIDGES, AND OBSERVATION DECKS. OKAY. ARE, ARE ACCEPTED UNDER A NON-COMMERCIAL. RANDY, WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO GIVE A PERMIT HERE. SO WE'VE GOTTA DECIDE WHETHER OR NOT THIS, THE, THE ADDITIONAL WIDTH OF SIX FEET VERSUS, UM, BASICALLY, I GUESS IT'S 10 FEET, UH, WITH THE, THE WIDTH ACROSS THE WETLANDS, WHETHER OR NOT THAT'S APPROPRIATE OR NOT. AND IS THAT, UH, THE, THE TENS VERSUS SIX, IS THAT SOMETHING THAT'S, UH, APPROPRIATED OR IS THAT SOMETHING THAT IS ON A CASE BY CASE? I THINK [01:15:01] IT, I THINK WE'RE LOOKING AT CASE BY CASE HERE. UH, WE'RE NOT DEALING WITH VEGETATED WETLANDS UNDERNEATH THIS, UH, UM, OBSERVATION. YEAH. IS THAT WHAT YOU JUST SAID? YEAH. THERE'S AN OBSERVATION. DECKS. DECKS. I LIKE THAT OBSERVATION DECK. I LIKE THAT TOO. 400 SQUARE FOOT. YES. HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT AN OBSERVATION DECK, SIR? FINE WITH ME. THE THING THIS WAS, THIS WAS ALL BUILT BEFORE WE WERE ASKED TO MAKE THE CHANGE. I KNOW ALL THAT TO COMMERCIAL, IT WAS BEING DONE AS RESIDENTIAL AT THE TIME. WHAT OTHER OPTIONS DO WE HAVE BESIDES OBSERVATION DECK, UH, SHELTERS AND OTHER SIMILAR STRUCTURES? WERE FINDING THAT THE STRUC THAT SUCH STRUCTURES, UH, ARE SO CONSTRUCTED ARE PILINGS AS THE REASONABLE UNOBSTRUCTED FLOW OF TIDE AND PRESERVE THE NATURAL CONTOUR OF THE WETLANDS, WHICH THIS IS OPEN PILE, IT'S NON VEGETATED. PERFECT. SO THE AREA UNDERNEATH PERFECT. MR. WATSON, UH, AFTER THE FACT TO TURN THIS INTO AN OBSERVATION DECK FROM WHATEVER IT WAS, IT WAS A PRIVATE PEER AND THEN IT WAS A, UH, UM, UH, YOU HAD THREE PEOPLE INVOLVED. UM, WHAT DO, WHAT DO WE DO AFTER THE FACT? WHAT DO YOU NEED FROM THAT GENTLEMAN TO MAKE THIS AN OBSERVATION DECK? I MEAN, WHAT'S THE, WHAT DO WE NEED? EXCUSE ME. OH, WELL I THINK WE DO HAVE AN AMENDED, AMENDED JPA. SO I THINK THAT IS BEFORE THE BOARD. SO THE AMENDED, JUST TO BE CLEAR. SO IS THERE, IS THERE A, UH, VOTE TO TAKE THIS AMENDED JPA, UH, AND HAVE IT INCLUDE AN OBSERVATION DECK? DOES IT NEED TO BE WORDED IN THE MOTION? UM, I THINK THAT'S BEST. YES. UM, YEAH. AND OH, SORRY. NO, NO, NO, NO. UH, SO DO YOU, UH, AGREE THAT IT CAN BECOME AN OBSERVATION DECK IF THE OWNER SAYS IT IS AND WE PUT IT IN A MOTION AND IT'S, UH, PART OF THE AMENDED JPA THAT HE'S ALREADY PAID FOR? I, I WOULD JUST SAY THAT SECTION 1 0 2 DASH 2 8 3 1 DOES MENTION, WELL, IT'S STRAIGHT OUT OF THE VIRGINIA CODE, MR. BADGER QUOTED. BUT IT DOES SAY, WOULD YOU OBSERVATION DECK AS A PERMITTED? YES, SIR. UH, I GUESS, UH, ALRIGHT. BUT, BUT OF COURSE YOU HAVE TO GO BACK TO THE COMMERCIAL NON-COMMERCIAL. EXACTLY. AND I DON'T WANT, SO THAT'S ANOTHER ISSUE WHETHER THE, BUT YES, IT'S DISCRETIONARY. UM, IF THE BOARD CALLS IT COMMERCIAL, OF COURSE IT CAN PERMIT IT. UM, I'M NOT SPEAKING FOR THE OWNER HERE, BUT, UH, I THINK, UH, WHATEVER WE WANT IT TO BE, TO KEEP IT LIKE IT IS, UH, UH, UH, OBSERVATION, UH, PUBLIC OR PRIVATE OR WHATEVER, I THINK, UH, IF WE DO THAT, EVERYTHING IS RESOLVED. IS THAT WHAT I'M HEARING AND JUNIOR IS, IS THAT OKAY MA'AM, YOU, IS THERE ANYTHING THAT YOU CAN HELP US, UH, ON THIS PARTICULAR ASPECT? DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO DO HERE? AND DO YOU AGREE OR DISAGREE FROM WHERE YOU SIT? SO, UM, I AM NOT TOTALLY CLEAR ON HOW YOU ALL ARE PROCEEDING. ALL I THINK THAT I SHOULD SAY THOUGH IS THAT IF YOU ARE GOING TO ISSUE A PERMIT, A WETLANDS PERMIT FOR THIS AFTER THE FACT APPLICATION, IT NEEDS TO BE A COMPLETE APPLICATION. THAT'S, THAT'S, UM, IN KEEPING WITH, IN KEEPING WITH, UM, YOUR PROCEDURAL, YOU KNOW, SO, SO WE HAVE, WE ADVERTISED THIS, WE CANNOT, WE, WE, WE DID BEFORE THE LAST MEETING. OKAY. SO IT'S BEEN ADVERTISED. SO IT'S BEEN ADVERTISED. UH, WE HAVE A, AN AMENDED, UH, BEEN PAID FOR. BUT YOU'RE SAYING IF WE'RE GOING TO DO THIS, IT NEEDS TO START A AGAIN, IN YOUR OPINION. NO, I AM JUST, I, MY ONLY, UM, COMMENT IS THAT IT NEEDS TO BE A COMPLETE APPLICATION IF A PERMIT IS GOING TO BE ISSUED FOR IT. I, I THINK WE HAVE A COMPLETE APPLICATION. UH, PAUL, WOULD YOU ENLIGHTEN ME ON THAT? DO YOU AGREE THAT WE HAVE A COMPLETE APPLICATION IN SOME FASHION? UM, THERE'S BEEN A LOT GOING ON IN THIS CASE, SO WELL LOT GOING ON. I JUST OBJECT WITH BUNCH OF CASES SPEAKING. I THINK AT LEAST WE NEED TO MODIFY THE DRAWINGS TO INDICATE AN OBSERVATION THAT'S A PIECE OF CAKE. YOU ALREADY HAVE EVERYTHING. YOU MIGHT NEED TO CHANGE TWO WORDS OR SOMETHING. WE, WE, WE DO HAVE AN UPDATED DRAWING. WE GOT A DRAWING. I'M, IT'S RIGHT HERE IF ANYBODY WANTS IT, BUT I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S, UH, SOME VERBIAGE OR IF SOMETHING BIG DEAL. UH, UM, THERE ARE, LEMME BRING IT UP ON THE SCREEN AND WE CAN ALL LOOK AT IT. UH, HERE IT IS THERE. IT'S, YEAH. SO A COUPLE THINGS. UH, WE WOULD NEED MEAN LOW AND MEAN HIGH NOTED ON HERE. [01:20:01] AND ALSO I GUESS WHERE THE X'S ARE. UM, WHERE ARE THE X'S? UH, OH YEAH, I GOT IT. GO. OH SHOOT. OH, THERE WE GO. UM, MEAN LOW AND HIGH IS NOT ON THERE SOMEWHERE I DO NOT BELIEVE SO. UM, AND ALSO I DON'T SEE IT SOME INDICATION THAT WHATEVER THAT, THAT THIS ADDITIONAL AREA IS AN OBSERVATION DECK. I MEAN THIS IS THE PIER GOING STRAIGHT BACK AND UH, OR SOME COM YOU KNOW, SOME INDICATION THAT THAT'S WHAT WAS APPLIED FOR HERE. ALRIGHT. UH, IF WE CHOOSE TO DO THIS AND THE OWNER IS WILLING TO, UH, GET WITH YOU AND CHANGE SOME, SOME WORDED OR MEAN HIGH MEAN LOW, UH, TAKE FIVE MINUTES IN YOUR OFFICE. UH, IS EVERYBODY, NOT US? EVERYBODY CLEAR WITH THAT? AND, UH, JUNIOR, UH, MR. WATSON? YES. UH, IF WE DO THAT AND HE'S WILLING TO, UH, REDO THE DRAWING, IF THAT'S WHAT IT TAKES, UH, I'M BE GLAD. REVIEW THE DRAWING. YES SIR. YES SIR. AND YOU'LL BE GLAD TO TALK TO HIM AND SAY, WHAT DO YOU WANT ON THERE THAT'S NOT ON THERE. IS THAT A FAIR ASSUMPTION? MM-HMM . ALRIGHT. AND I WOULD JUST ADD TO THAT, THAT I WOULD, UH, ALSO REVIEW THE APPLICATION AND MAKE SURE YES, SIR. ANYTHING ELSE THAT NEEDS TO BE PUT ON THERE OF COURSE IS, IS YOU'LL FILLED OUT. NO. WHEN, JUST MAKE SURE. UH, AND, AND PAUL, WILL WE GO THROUGH THE APPLICATION? YES SIR. SEND ME AN EMAIL AND TELL ME WHAT HE WANTS ON IT. YES, SIR. SO I DON'T MISS ANYTHING. I DO IT ALL AT ONE TIME. FAIR DEAL. THAT'S FAIR. UH, HOW LONG TO GET THAT DONE? I'LL SEND THE EMAIL OUT TODAY. NO PROBLEM. OKAY. UH, ANY OTHER, OH, HOLD ON. UH, CLOSED FLOOR. ANYBODY WANT TO TALK ABOUT IT? CLOSED FLOOR, PUBLIC COMMENT, CLOSE THE FLOOR NOW. DISCUSSION FROM THE BOARD. OKAY, I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE WE WE'RE CLEAR ON COVERING THIS ONE POINT WHEN YOU WENT AND MEASURED THAT WHEN YOU ARE ON YOUR BACK, YOU CAME OVER 240 SQUARE FEET? YES. OKAY. AND THE ORIGINAL MITIGATION FOR WAS FOR 108 SQUARE FEET. WE'RE NOT, NOTHING'S BEEN FILLED. NOTHING'S BEEN FILLED. OKAY. SO WE DON'T NEED TO WORRY ABOUT THE DIFFERENTIAL. IT'S OPEN PILE STRUCTURE OVER, WE OVER, UH, UH, NON VEGETATED WETLANDS. OKAY? SO WE'RE ALL FINE. NOTHING'S BEEN FILLED. IT'S JUST OPEN PILE. JUST OPEN PILE. AND IT'S ALSO PROPERTY THAT IT'S, IT IS, IT IS PRIVATE BOTTOM, NOT STATE BOTTOM. I DON'T MEAN NOTHING EITHER, BUT AGAIN, IT'S, IT'S NOTHING BEEN FILLED. IT ALL GOES AWAY BECAUSE OF THAT. I JUST WANNA MAKE CHECK. I UNDERSTAND JUDGE. JUST WANTED CHECK. THERE'S THE ONLY THING THAT COULD EVER EVEN POSSIBLY BE CHARGED FOR WOULD BE SHADING. THAT'S THE ONLY THING THAT EVEN BE POSSIBLY CHARGED FOR. AND BECAUSE SHA VEGETATION, THAT'S NOT AN ISSUE HERE. I DON'T THINK SO. YOU AGREE? I, I AGREE. QUESTION. UH, YOU AGREE HANK? YOU AGREE? ALRIGHT, HERE'S WHAT WE'RE GONNA DO. WE'RE GOING TO, UH, MAKE A MOTION REGARDING THIS, UM, AMENDED JPA 2 0 2 5 1 2 6 3. YES. AND IT'S GONNA INCLUDE RE UH, UH, MR. WATSON'S, UH, REDRAWING WITH, UH, MR. BRITTON'S, UH, HIGH, LOW, ET CETERA. WHAT ELSE NEEDS TO BE PUT ON THERE? HE'S WILLING TO DO IT AND IT'S BECOME AN OBSERVATION DECK. YOU WITH ME? YES. ALRIGHT. UH, ARE WE READY FOR A MOTION REGARDING THAT? MAY I ASK FOR A MOTION, PLEASE? I'LL MAKE A MOTION ON THE ADMITTED JPA THAT IT'D BE, UM, UH, NEW DRAWINGS I STAND. IT'D BE A, UM, UH, OBSERVATION DECK AND IT'S UNDER, THAT AREA IS UNDER 400 SQUARE FOOT. UM, AND THE NEW DRAWINGS WILL BE IN PLACE WITH THE, UM, MR. PAUL AND MR. MR. GINA BRITTON. AND THE DRAWINGS WILL SHOW, UH, STATE, UH, INSTEAD OF BE AN OBSERVATION THAT THIS AREA IN QUESTION, I MAKE A MOTION AFTER THE, THE, UH, NEW DRAWINGS AND EVERYTHING, STATE THIS OBSERVATION DECK THAT WE APPROVE. WE HAVE A MOTION CALL FOR A SECOND. I'VE GOT A QUESTION. THERE IS NO CHANGE IN ANYTHING OTHER THAN THE TERMINOLOGY OF THE, THAT'S ABSOLUTELY CORRECT. ALRIGHT, AS FOR A SECOND, PLEASE. I'LL SECOND, SECOND VOTE PLEASE. AYE. AYE. UNANIMOUS. IT PASSES TWO YEAR PERMIT. UH, GINGER, EXCUSE ME. DID YOU GET ALL THAT? YES, I DID. YES, SIR. UM, SO I GUESS THE LAST THING TO DISPOSE OF IS, OF COURSE THIS SECTION WAS BILL NOT ACCORDING TO ANY PLANS WE RECEIVED, AND THAT WAS THE VIOLATION WAS THIS WAS BUILT WITHOUT THE REQUIRED PERMITTING. UM, AND I WOULD JUST ASK THE BOARD TO DISPOSE OF THAT SWORN COMPLAINT. YES, SIR. UH, THAT IS VERY, VERY GOOD. SHOULD HAVE THAT HAVE BEEN IN THE MOTION? I DON'T THINK SO. I THINK IT JUST, WE DISPOSE OF IT SEPARATE. I THINK IT'S END OF STORY, STORY SEPARATELY. UH, THAT THE, THE [01:25:01] VIOLATION IS DISPOSED OF, UH, NOT INCLUDE IN THE MOTION. UH, IT IS JUST GONE. WE AGREE WITH THAT? MM-HMM . EVERYBODY. OKAY. WE DON'T, WE DON'T NEED TO VOTE ON THAT. WE'RE JUST, IT'S VACATED. WE CAN DO IT. LET'S, UH, HERE, HERE'S THE MOTION. I MAKE A MOTION. WE'VE DISPOSED OF THE SWORN, UM, VIOLATION. ALRIGHT, SECOND VOTE. AYE. AYE. GONE AWAY. ALRIGHT, UH, LET'S MOVE ALONG PLEASE. THANK YOU ALL. THAT WAS A HAIRY ONE. UM, ALL WE'VE GOT NOW IS, UH, NUMBER FIVE. IS THERE, IS THERE ANOTHER VIOLATION THAT I MISSED? THERE'S NOT, BUT I, BUT I WOULD ASK THE BOARD JUST FOR A LITTLE OF GUIDANCE. UH, THIS ONE WAS EASY TO BRING BEFORE THE BOARD 'CAUSE OBVIOUSLY THERE WAS A VIOLATION THE BOARD NEEDED TO DISPOSE OF. YES SIR. AND SO THE ISSUE OF THE MULTI-USER, WHETHER THAT'S COMMERCIAL OR NON-COMMERCIAL. SO I WOULD JUST ASK THE BOARD IF IT WANTED TO PROVIDE ANY GUIDANCE ON A GOING FORWARD BASIS. IF I HAVE ANOTHER APPLICATION, A JPA WITH A MULTI MULTI-USER PEER, WHETHER THE BOARD CONSIDERS THAT EXEMPT OR REQUIRING A HEARING. I ONLY SPEAK FOR MYSELF. I THINK IT SHOULD BE ON A CASE BY CASE, UH, ROUND THE RUM. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE QUESTION? UH, SHOULD IS, IS IT SET IN STONE AS OF THIS MOMENT? UM, IF IT IS THIS, IT'S COMMERCIAL, IF IT'S THAT IT'S PRIVATE, UH, OR IS ON A CASE BY CASE. WELL, TO BE CONSISTENT WITH VMRC, THEY CONSIDER JOINT USE PEERS SOMETHING THEY HAVE TO PERMIT. SO I WOULD SUGGEST THAT WE CONTINUE ON THE SAME LINE THAT THEY DO JUST TO BE, 'CAUSE WE'RE GONNA BE DEALING WITH THE SAME PEERS. YES, SIR. UH, MAKES SENSE TO, UH, GENE WAYNE. BUT TO BE HONEST WITH YOU, IT'S A LOT EASIER IF WE DON'T , BUT WELL, UH, I THINK WE CAN, I THINK IF WE, UH, ALIGN OURSELVES, UH, AND MS. GORMAN IS HERE TO, UH, GIVE US SOME GUIDANCE, I THINK THAT WE CAN DO IT ON A CASE BY CASE UNTIL WE HAVE TWO OR THREE UNDER OUR BELTS. AND THEN IF WE SEE THAT IT IS BLACK AND WHITE, THEN WE'RE GOING TO PUT IT IN A BOOK. OKAY. OKAY. FAIR DEAL. YES. ALRIGHT. WHAT ELSE YOU GOT? UM, I, THERE ARE NO JPA FOR THE NEXT MEETING. I THINK I DISTRIBUTED ONE AT THE LAST MEETING THAT I THOUGHT WAS GONNA BE HEARD HIGHLY. RIGHT. BUT THEY HAVE, UH, RECONFIGURED THEIR, UH, DESIGN SUCH THAT IT'S NO LONGER IN THE WETLANDS. SO, UH, THAT MEANS I DON'T, I'VE GOT IT HERE. WHEN'S, WHEN'S JUNE MEETING? UH, I GOT IT IF YOU NEED IT. IF I DO SIGN IT WRONG, PLEASE. IT'S, IT'S BACK TO THE FOURTH THURSDAY. MAY, MAY WAS GONNA BE THE THIRD. UH, SOMEBODY LOOK UP, UH, I GOT IT IN MY CALENDAR IF YOU NEED IT. HERE WE GO. UM, SO THE FOURTH THURSDAY IN JUNE IS THE 25TH. 25TH. YES. ALRIGHT. UH, MOVING ON TO NUMBER FIVE. UH, THERE IS NO MEETING OR NEXT MONTH. SO OUR NEXT SCHEDULED MEETING IS JUNE 25TH, UH, THURSDAY, 10 O'CLOCK RIGHT HERE IN CHAMBERS. UM, ANYBODY HAVE ANYTHING FROM, I I DO HAVE ONE QUESTION FOR YES SIR. UM, IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING, UM, THAT VMRC HAS TAKEN A HARDER LINE WHEN IT COMES TO, UH, BOTH RIP WRAP AND BULKHEADING. NOW IS IS I, AM I NOT THINKING CORRECTLY ON THAT? UM, COULD YOU EXPAND A LITTLE BIT? UM, I THINK THEY'RE PUSHING MORE AND MORE FOR LIVING SHORELINES THAN THEY HAVE IN THE PAST. AND YOU'VE ALMOST GOT TO NOW JUSTIFY, UH, STONE RIP WRAP MORE THAN WE'VE HAD IN THE PAST IS THAT WE HAVE ONLY, UM, I, WE APPROACH IT ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS. I MEAN, I WOULD SAY, UM, SO THAT HADN'T CHANGED TO BEING, BEING CONSISTENT WITH THOSE STATE MANDATE FOR LIVING SHORELINES. WE DO ASK FOR JUSTIFICATIONS FOR BULKHEADS AND REVETMENTS. OKAY. IF A LIVING SHORELINE IS FEASIBLE. UM, BUT IF IT'S NOT, BUT WE DO LIKE TO HAVE THAT JUSTIFICATION ON THE RECORD. THEY NEED TO PUT THE JUSTIFICATION IN THERE. OKAY. YEAH. BUT FROM WHERE WE SIT, DON'T WE STILL HAVE OUR TREE THAT, UH, GOES FROM, UH, LIVING ALL THE WAY TO, UH, BULKHEAD? YEAH. MM-HMM . WE DO. OKAY. ALRIGHT. UH, ANYTHING ELSE? THAT'S IT. WE'RE ADJOURNED. ALRIGHT. OKAY. TAKE THE MOTION. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.