* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. PLANNING COMMISSION ORDER. [00:00:01] WE HAVE A QUORUM [Planning Commission Work Session on April 28, 2026.] WITH MR. ROGERS AND MR. WHITE ABSENT SO WE CAN DO, WE ADOPT THE AGENDA. MOTION TO ADOPT AGENDA SECOND. MOTION IS SECOND TO ADOPT AGENDA AS WRITTEN. ALL THEY EVER SAY, AYE. AYE. ALL RIGHT. WE HAVE THE REZONING OF 0 0 0 0 5 6 2026, MARINER FARM VILLAGE DEVELOPMENT, REZONING FOR PROFFER AMENDMENT AND CUP FOR VILLAGE DEVELOPMENT AND WAIVER REQUEST. UH, THANK YOU MADAM CHAIR, MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION, LEE, PAM, AND DEPUTY COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR FOR COMMUNITY AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT. UM, I DO NOT HAVE A SLIDE DECK PRESENTED BECAUSE I'M JUST GONNA BE REPORTING DIRECTLY FROM THE, UH, FROM THE STAFF REPORT HERE. BUT, UM, AS, UH, AS YOU HAD MENTIONED MADAM CHAIR, THIS IS THE, UM, UH, THIS IS THE, UH, FIRST QUOTE UNQUOTE CASE THAT WE'RE GONNA BE DISCUSSING TONIGHT OF THE TWO. AND WHILE I, WHILE WE GET THE, UH, STAFF REPORT UP HERE, IF WE COULD GO AHEAD AND ZOOM IN ON THAT CHART AT THE TOP. WE'LL GO AHEAD AND ORIENT THE COMMISSION. AND WE ALSO HAVE MR. TIM HEARN HERE, UH, REPRESENTING HIS, UH, REPRESENTING HIS APPLICATION WOULD BE AVAILABLE FOR ANY QUESTIONS, SHOULD YOU, SHOULD YOU SO CHOOSE. UM, WE HAVE A MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC HERE. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO MENTION IS THAT FOR WORK SESSIONS, WE DO NOT HAVE A, A PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD. SO THIS IS GOING TO BE A, UH, INFORMATIONAL FOR THE PLANNING COMMISSION AS WE MOVE FORWARD ON THIS, UH, UH, UH, BRIEFING YOU ON THIS CASE TONIGHT. AND THEN, OF COURSE, AT THE NEXT MEETING, IT'S JUST, THERE'S NO PUBLIC HEARINGS OR ANYTHING AT THE NEXT MEETING FOR EITHER OF THESE TWO CASES. YOU DO HAVE THE TWO PUBLIC HEARINGS FOR THE A FD CASES, BUT YOU ALREADY KNOW ABOUT THOSE. AGAIN, NO PUBLIC HEARINGS, UH, ARE, ARE CURRENTLY SCHEDULED FOR EITHER OF THESE TWO ITEMS. SO WE'LL GO AHEAD AND GET INTO THE STAFF REPORT. NOW, AS I HAD MENTIONED, UM, OR AS YOU HAD MENTIONED, INTRODUCING THE CASE, THIS IS AN, A REZONING ANY CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT, THESE COMPANION CASES FOR, UH, NUMBER ONE, A, UH, UH, A PROFFER AMENDMENT THROUGH THE REZONING PRO THROUGH THE REZONING PROCESS. AND THEN NUMBER TWO, A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR A REVISED LAYOUT. YOU ALL HAVE, UH, RECEIVED THE, THE STAFF REPORT. AND, UH, JUST GOING THROUGH HERE FOR THE RECORD, THE APPLICANT IS R TWO J, SLLC, AS IS THE PROPERTY OWNER. THE LOCATION IS IN, UH, UH, ON TAX PARCEL FIVE A ONE. THAT IS A VACANT PIECE OF PROPERTY JUST ALONG THE MARYLAND STATE LINE, UH, ADJACENT TO, UH, UH, CAPTAIN'S COVE. THIS IS IN, UH, UH, DISTRICT TWO, MR. ROGERS GEORGES, AND, UH, CHAIRWOMAN ANGIE WINGFIELD. IT'S JUST UNDER 25 ACRES. THE CURRENT ZONING, WHICH WAS, UH, REZONED BACK IN 2022. UH, UH, THE APPLICATION WAS SUBMITTED IN 21, BUT THE REZONING ACTUALLY OCCURRED IN 2022. CURRENT ZONING IS VILLAGE DEVELOPMENT WITH PROFFERS, AND AS YOU SAW, UH, THERE IS A PROFFER AMENDMENT ON THE TABLE FOR THIS ONE. THE FUTURE LAND USE RECOMMENDATION IS AGRICULTURE, AND WE'VE ALREADY TALKED ABOUT WHAT THE REQUEST IS, UH, OVERLAYS. IT IS IN THE, THE CAPITAL RESOURCE MANAGEMENT AREA, BUT THAT DOES NOT, UH, UM, THAT DOES NOT, UH, UH, IMPOSE ANY ADDITIONAL REQUIREMENTS HERE. THE ADJACENT ZONING IS RESIDENTIAL, AND ON THE MARYLAND SIDE OF THE LINE IS A ONE AG. FOR THOSE NOT FAMILIAR WITH THE SITE, THE ADJACENT USES ARE VACANT, SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL. WE ALSO HAVE SOME LOTS THAT ARE BUILT SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL AG. AND THEN THERE IS ALSO AN HOA CLUBHOUSE STRUCTURE. UM, IMMEDIATELY TO THE, UM, UH, TO THE, UH, EAST, THE PROPOSED DENSITY REMAINS THE SAME BECAUSE THE NUMBER OF UNITS ARE REMAINING THE SAME. THEY HAVE NOT INCREASED OR DECREASED THE NUMBER OF UNITS. THEY'RE, THEY ARE STILL, UH, PROPOSING 140 UNITS, 140 TOWNHOUSE UNITS ON INDIVIDUAL LOTS. SO THESE ARE FEE SIMPLE, LOTS PER SALE. AND AGAIN, THE, UH, THE, THE PARCEL SIZE, UH, DOES NOT CHANGE. SO IF WE COULD GO TO THE, UH, GO TO THE MAP. SO WE'LL GO PAST THE STAFF REPORT, AND THEN WE'LL GO TO THE MAP. YEAH, RIGHT. THERE WE GO. [00:05:04] THE STATE LINE ROAD IS THE STATE BOUNDARY. SO EVERYTHING NORTH OF THE, UH, NORTH OF WHERE YOU SEE THE YELLOW PARCEL LINES IS THE STATE OF MARYLAND. AND, UH, THIS IS THE SITE CAPTAIN'S CORRIDOR RUNS ALONG THE EAST OF THE SITE, WHICH IS A PRIVATE RIGHT OF WAY. THERE IS ONE EXISTING HOUSE, WHICH I BELIEVE, UH, WHICH IS, UH, UH, FOR, FOR THIS PARTICULAR APPLICATION, THE INTENT IS TO REMOVE THE HOUSE FROM THE SITE. NEXT SLIDE. THIS IS THE ZONING MAP INDICATING RESIDENTIAL ZONING. UM, UH, ON THREE SIDES, AGRICULTURAL ZONING IN THE STATE OF MARYLAND ON THE NORTH SIDE. AND THE HATCHING IN THE MIDDLE BASICALLY MEANS THAT, UH, PROFFERS WERE, UH, WERE SUBMITTED AND APPROVED AND ACCEPTED BY THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS. NEXT SLIDE. AND, UH, UM, FUTURE LAND USE. EVERYTHING IS, UH, UH, UH, DESIGNATED AGRICULTURE. NEXT SLIDE. I'VE GOT THE THING. SO , UH, AND THEN THIS IS THE, UH, THIS IS THE KAPPA, UH, EXHIBIT. SO THE RED IS WHERE THERE WOULD BE ENVIRONMENTAL CONSTRAINTS, BUT AS YOU CAN SEE, THE RED DOES NOT IN TOUCH, DOES NOT TOUCH OR ENCROACH UPON THE SITE. SO THERE ARE NO, UH, THERE ARE NO OTHER ENVIRONMENTAL, UH, RESTRICTIONS OR, UH, OR, UH, ANYTHING LIKE THAT. NO FLOODPLAIN, NO WETLANDS, NO MARSHES OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. WHAT WE HAVE HERE IS THE ORIGINALLY APPROVED AND PROFFERED LAYOUT FROM 20 21, 20 22. AGAIN, THE APPLICATION WAS SUBMITTED IN 21, AND THEN ULTIMATELY APPROVED IN 2022. UH, I DID COUNT ALL THESE MYSELF. SO YEAH, THERE ARE 140 UNITS HERE. THAT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT THEY WERE PREVIOUSLY, UH, THAT THEY WERE PREVIOUSLY, UM, UH, PROPOSED FOR RENTAL. AND NOW AGAIN, THEY WILL BE ON FEE SIMPLE LOTS AND PROPOSED FOR, UH, FOR SALE. ONE OF THE ELEMENTS, UM, UH, BESIDES JUST THE 140 UNITS, ONE OF THE OTHER ELEMENTS THAT ARE CARRIED FORWARD IS THE, UM, IS THE, UH, COMBINATION RETAIL OFFICE BUILDING, ALTHOUGH THAT IS ADJUSTED IN THE NEW LAYOUT. AND THEN YOU ALSO HAVE SEVERAL AMENITIES THROUGHOUT THE, THROUGHOUT THE, UM, THROUGHOUT THE, UH, THE PLAN HERE, UH, THE HOA RATHER, THE, UH, THE CLUBHOUSE, WHICH WAS PREVIOUSLY IN THE MIDDLE OF THE, UM, OF THE DEVELOPMENT IS NOW UP TOWARDS THE FRONT. WE'LL SEE THAT IN THE, IN THE NEXT COUPLE OF SLIDES. AND THEN YOU SEE HOW LARGE THESE BMPS ARE. BMPS ACTUALLY STANDS FOR BEST MANAGEMENT PRACTICE, WHICH IS JUST SHORT FOR STORMWATER POND. THIS PLAN ALSO FEATURES A TRAIL NETWORK, WHICH YOU, UH, WHICH YOU SAW IN THE PACKET. A TRAIL NETWORK HAS BEEN ADDED SINCE THE LAST TIME YOU SAW THAT PLAN. OKAY, THIS IS THE, UH, THIS IS THE, UH, UH, UH, THE COLOR RENDERING THAT YOU SAW FROM LAST MONTH. AGAIN, UH, REVISED STORMWATER PONDS. THERE'S ONE, AND THEN THERE'S ANOTHER ONE RIGHT HERE. UH, THE CENTRAL PARK IS STILL FEATURED, EXCEPT THERE'S NO STRUCTURES ANYTHING IN THE MIDDLE OF THE PARK THAT'S BEEN MOVED UP FRONT. THE OTHER CHANGE HERE IS, UH, MOVING THE, UH, THE PROPOSED EMS STATION FROM FLEMING ROAD TO STATE LINE ROAD. AND THEN THIS SITE RIGHT HERE IS WHERE THE PROPOSED IS. WHERE THEY PROPOSED IS, UH, TO, UH, PUT THAT EMS STATION AND THAT EMS STATION IS PROFFERED. SO REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE, UH, REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE PROPOSAL IS, THEY'VE GOT TO DO AN EMS STATION. LET'S SEE. THE LAST TIME WE TALKED, UH, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE HAD MENTIONED TO THE, UH, FIRST, UH, TO YOU THE COMMISSION AND THEN ALSO TO THE, UH, TO THE DEVELOPER IS, UM, UH, ADDITIONAL PARKING BEING NEEDED. 'CAUSE THEY HAD THE EXACT NUMBER OF PARKING FOR THE, UH, FOR THE NUMBER OF UNITS, 140 UNITS REQUIRES 280 PARKING SPACES, AND A GARAGE COUNTS AS A PARKING SPACE HERE IN AKIMA COUNTY BY ORDINANCE. ONE OF MY CONCERNS AT THE TIME THAT I SAW THIS WAS, WELL, WHAT ABOUT, WHAT ABOUT GUESTS? WHAT ABOUT, UM, YOU KNOW, WHAT, IF A FAMILY HAS MORE THAN TWO CARS, WE CANNOT CONTROL THE NUMBER OF CARS THAT PEOPLE HAVE. SO THAT WAS ONE THING THAT WE WANTED TO, UH, MAKE SURE WAS ADDRESSED. NOW, HERE IS THE REVISED PLAN. UM, SO AS YOU CAN SEE, JUST THE CHANGES. FORTUNATELY, THEY DIDN'T CHANGE THE EXTENT, SO IT'S VERY EASY TO FLIP BACK BETWEEN THE TWO, UH, BACK AND FORTH. BUT THEY DID ADD, UH, 37 ADDITIONAL PARKING SPACES. UH, HERE, HERE, HERE [00:10:01] AND HERE. THE GREEN, UM, UH, THE GREEN, UH, DOTTED LINES REPRESENT THEIR TRAIL NETWORK. AGAIN, WITH REGARDS TO THE, UH, WITH REGARDS TO THE STREETS, THEY ARE NOT PROPOSING SIDEWALKS. SO THEY ARE, UH, SUBSTITUTING THE, UH, UH, UH, SIDEWALKS WITH A TRAIL NETWORK. YOU CAN ALSO SEE SIGNIFICANT LANDSCAPING, UH, ALONG CAPTAIN'S CORRIDOR, UM, UH, UH, AROUND SOME OF THE COMMERCIAL AND THE EMS STATION. AND THEN THERE'S ALSO SOME LANDSCAPING ALONG THE, UH, ALONG THE SOUTHERN PROPERTY LINE, UH, UH, ADJACENT TO THE HOUSES. AGAIN, GOING BACK TO THE ORIGINAL, UH, THE ORIGINAL LAYOUT, UH, UH, THERE WAS A ROAD NEXT TO THE, UH, NEXT TO THE, UH, UH, THE LOTS. BUT THEN IN THE NEW LAYOUT, THEY'VE ACTUALLY MOVED UNITS TO THE, UH, TO THE SOUTH, AND THEN MOVED THE ROAD A LITTLE BIT FURTHER. INTERIOR. DID YOU, DID YOU SAY THERE WERE NO SIDEWALKS? THERE ARE NO SIDEWALKS. CAN WE ZOOM IN ON THE CROSS SECTION HERE? WASN'T HE GOING TO MOVE IT CLOSER TO THE, UH, UNITS CLOSER TO THE ROAD TOO? WASN'T IT? WASN'T THAT PART OF THEIR PROPOSAL LAYS TIME? I BELIEVE THE SETBACKS ARE, ARE FAIRLY SIMILAR. I DON'T THINK THEY MOVED THEM TOO MUCH CLOSER TO THE ROADS, BUT THAT IS ONE OF THE, UH, THAT IS ONE OF THE, UH, UH, THE WAIVERS THAT THEY HAVE REQUESTED IS A, A SETBACK WAIVERS. YEAH. RIGHT. LET'S ZOOM IN A LITTLE BIT MORE. WE CAN, OR IS THAT AS FAR AS WE CAN GO? THERE WE GO. OKAY. I'M SORRY. THAT'S OKAY. DOUBLE. THERE WE GO. SO THIS IS A CROSS SECTION OF THE ROAD. UM, LET'S SEE, A, A 30 FOOT RIGHT AWAY MINIMUM WITH, UH, 10 FOOT TRAVEL LANES IN EACH DIRECTION. AND THEN, UH, ALONG THE, UH, ALONG THE, UH, EDGES HERE, YOU JUST HAVE GRADED SHOULDERS. ALRIGHT, LET'S GO BACK TO THE REGULAR EXTENT. OKAY. SO THOSE GREEN LINES ARE THE TRAIL NETWORK? YES, SIR. SO NO SIDEWALKS. NO SIDEWALKS, HUH? OKAY. LOOKS LIKE YOU COULD SPIT OUT THE WINDOW AND HIT YOU ON THE HEAD AS YOU WALK THAT TRAIL. THIS MATRIX THAT YOU SEE HERE ON THE SCREEN IS THEIR WAIVER REQUEST MATRIX, WHICH THEY ARE REQUESTING, UM, YOU KNOW, SIX TOTAL, UH, THREE OF 'EM ARE SETBACK, UH, ARE SETBACK, UM, UH, UH, REQUESTS FOR WAIVERS. NUMBER ONE, UH, THEY WANT 2000 SQUARE FOOT MINIMUM LOTS, WHERE A CONVENTIONAL LOT WITH CENTRAL WATER AND SEWER REQUIRES A 10,000 SQUARE FEET. THERE'S ALSO A, A, UH, FRONTAGE REQUIREMENT OF 150 FEET, WHERE YOU REALLY NEED, YOU DON'T NEED 150 FEET FOR A TOWNHOUSE. 20 IS GOING TO BE THE, UH, THE, UH, MINIMUM THAT THEY WOULD LIKE TO DO. THEY WANNA REDUCE THE FRONT YARD SETBACK FROM 50 TO 20. UH, LONGER VEHICLES WILL STILL BE ABLE TO, UH, THEY, THEY STILL MIGHT EXCEED THE 20 FEET IN LENGTH, BUT THE STANDARD PARKING SPACE IN AKIMA COUNTY IS A NINE BY 20 PARKING SPACE. SO THEY WOULD STILL COMPLY WITH THAT. AGAIN, THERE WOULD BE ONE PARKING SPACE IN A GARAGE, AND THEN ONE PARKING SPACE OUTSIDE OF THE, UH, UM, UH, OUTSIDE IN THE DRIVEWAY. THEY WANNA REDUCE THE SIDE YARD SETBACK FROM 15 FEET TO 10. YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT. AND THEN THE REAR YARD SETBACK, THEY WANT TO REDUCE FROM 35 FEET TO 20. THIS LAST WAIVER, UM, IF IT WASN'T DEALT WITH AT THE LA WITH THE LAST CASE, IT'S GOING TO BE DEALT WITH WITH THIS ONE, BUT, UH, THE ORDINANCE REQUIRES TWO ACCESS POINTS TO A PUBLIC NETWORK FOR ROADS EXCEEDING 250 VEHICLES PER DAY. THEY WILL HAVE ONE ACCESS POINT TO A, UH, TO A PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY. HOWEVER, AS WE ALL KNOW, CAPTAIN'S CORRIDOR IS, IS PRIVATE, BUT THEY'RE REQUEST, BUT THEY'RE, UH, SHOWING TWO ACCESS POINTS TO CAPTAIN'S CORRIDOR, JUST LIKE THEY DID ON THE LAST PLAN. SO WE WILL GO TO, YEAH, THIS IS GONNA BE A, AN, UH, THIS IS THE BEST WAY THAT WE COULD DEPICT ALL OF THE CHANGES THAT WERE REQUESTED. BUT [00:15:01] ESSENTIALLY, UM, THEY'RE REDUCING THE NUMBER OF PROFFERS FROM 12 TO SEVEN. AND THE REASON FOR THAT IS SOME OF THESE HAVE ALREADY BEEN, UH, SOME OF THESE HAVE ALREADY BEEN DEALT WITH, BUT, UM, BUT, UH, UH, FOR INSTANCE, THERE WAS A $10,000, UH, UH, PAYMENT TO THE CAL RIPKIN, UH, TO THE RIPKIN, UH, FOUNDATION, WHICH HAS ALREADY BEEN ACCOMPLISHED. SO THERE ARE, THERE ARE SOME PROPERTIES IN THERE THAT, UH, BOTH, UM, JAN PROCTOR, THE COUNTY ATTORNEY AND I LOOKED AT, AND, AND, UH, UH, WE REALLY, WE DID NOT OBJECT TO, UH, TO THE REMOVAL OF SOME OF THESE. I'M GONNA GO AHEAD AND PAUSE HERE AND ASK IF THERE ARE ANY QUESTIONS SO FAR. UH, NO, SIR. SURE. YES, SIR. CONSIDER WHAT WE WENT THROUGH IN 21 TO GET THIS. UH, CAN YOU TELL US WHAT'S CHANGED? I MEAN, WHAT'S DIFFERENT ABOUT THIS PROPOSAL, OR IF THERE ARE ANY DIFFERENCES BETWEEN, UH, THE, PARTICULARLY THE PUBLIC OBJECTIONS THAT WE, WE FEEL AT THAT TIME? HAS SOMETHING CHANGED? I THINK THAT THE MAIN CHANGE HERE, WHERE LAST TIME THE PROPOSAL WAS FOR RENT, THESE ARE GOING TO BE ON INDIVIDUAL LOTS, A FEE, SIMPLE, LOTS PER SALE. THAT IS GOING TO BE ONE SIGNIFICANT CHANGE. ANOTHER SIGNIFICANT CHANGE IS THE LOCATION OF THE EMS STATION FROM FLEMING ROAD TO STATE LINE ROAD. SO, UH, SO THE, THE, THE INITIAL REASON FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND, HAVING THE EMS STATION OUT ON FLEMING ROAD WAS FOR, UH, RESPONSE TIMES. BUT, UH, UH, THAT IS GOING TO BE ANOTHER SIGNIFICANT CHANGE HERE. ANOTHER CHANGE, AND I'LL GO ALL THE WAY BACK TO THE, UH, TO THE, UH, UH, UH, CONCEPTUAL LAYOUT. UH, THIS LAYOUT DIDN'T PROPOSE, UH, SIDEWALKS EITHER, BUT IN, IN MY OPINION, THE REVISED LAYOUT, AND WE'LL JUST GO TO THIS COLOR ONE SENTENCE RIGHT NEXT. THE REVISED LAYOUT IS MUCH BETTER THAN THE LAYOUT THAT WAS APPROVED BACK IN, UH, IN, UH, 2022, UH, FROM THE STREET NETWORK TO THE SIZES OF THE BMPS. AND JUST OVERALL LAND USE JUST APPEARS TO BE A LITTLE BIT, UH, UM, APPEARS TO BE A LOT, A LOT MORE EFFICIENT. GRANTED, BUT MY, I GUESS MY QUESTION WAS WHAT CHANGES, UH, WILL AFFECT THE, UH, PUBLIC OR THE NEIGHBOR'S, UH, CONSENT OR OBJECTIONS? WILL WE, WILL WE HAVE TO, UH, DEAL WITH THAT, THAT, UH, AT THIS TIME AROUND MAY STEP ON? LET ME, UH, OKAY. YEAH. I'LL, UM, I'LL, I'LL, THERE WERE THREE MAJOR ONES. TWO OF 'EM ENDED UP IN COURT, THAT'S WHY I WAS CALLING. SO, UH, AND, AND, UH, YOU KNOW, MR. HEARN IS HERE TO, TO ANSWER SOME QUESTIONS. BUT AGAIN, FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND, THE RENTAL ASPECT WAS A SIGNIFICANT OBJECTION. I KNOW THAT THE, THAT CAPTAIN'S COVE WAS A, UH, WAS ALSO A SIGNIFICANT OBJE OBJECTION, BUT THAT WAS LITIGATED IN THE, IN THE, UH, UH, DEVELOPER'S FAVOR. SO HE IS ABLE TO USE CAPTAIN'S COVE AS AN ACCESS. THE THIRD ONE THAT I UNDERSTAND IS GOING TO BE THE WATER AND SEWER CONNECTION, BUT, UH, UH, YOU KNOW, THAT IS, UH, THAT'S, THAT HAS NOT CHANGED. THEY'RE STILL GOING TO BE USING THE, UH, THE CAPTAIN'S COVE PLANTS FOR WATER AND SEWER AS, UH, AS, UM, UH, AS THEIR, UH, SOURCE OF WATER AND AS THEIR SOURCE OF, UH, WASTEWATER TREATMENT. THAT'S A REQUIREMENT FOR VILLAGE NOW, RIGHT? YES, SIR. A CENTRAL, A CENTRAL, UH, WATER SYSTEM. IT DOESN'T NECESSARILY HAVE TO BE A PUBLIC WATER SYSTEM OR PUBLIC SEWER SYSTEM. IT JUST NEEDS TO BE A CENTRAL SYSTEM. SO WHAT THEY HAVE UP IN CAPTAIN'S COVE IS A, IS A PRIVATELY HELD CENTRAL, CENTRAL SYSTEM. OKAY. SO COULD YOU EXPLAIN A CENTRAL SYSTEM VERSUS A PUBLIC FOR ME? OKAY. SO A, A CENTRAL SYSTEM IS ONE THAT HAS A COLLECTION, WE'LL, WE'LL START WITH WATER. FIRST OF ALL, A SINGLE, A SINGLE SOURCE OF WATER, WHETHER THAT'S A WELL OR A, OR A WATER TREATMENT PLANT, YOU KNOW, A WELL COULD STILL BE ITS OWN WATER TREATMENT PLANT. IT'S JUST A, IT'S JUST A SMALLER ONE. BUT, UM, BUT THE, UH, UH, THE WATER COMES FROM A CENTRAL SOURCE AND IS DISTRIBUTED TO, UH, YOU KNOW, TO MULTIPLE USERS. WHEREAS HERE IN MACK, YOU NORMALLY HAVE YOUR OWN, WELL, ON YOUR OWN PIECE OF PROPERTY. SO IT'S ESSENTIALLY LIKE YOU LIVING IN A TOWN WHERE YOU, YOU WOULD GET, UH, YOU WOULD GET YOUR WATER FROM [00:20:01] THE TOWN, UH, YOU WOULD SEND YOUR WASTEWATER TO THE TOWN, TO A CENTRAL, UH, WASTEWATER TREATMENT PLANT. IN THIS CASE, THEY HAVE BOTH OF THOSE ELEMENTS. IT'S JUST NOT PUBLICLY OWNED BY MACK COUNTY OR BY A TOWN. OKAY. UM, WE'LL SAY, LIKE, THE TOWN OF THE C**K IS AN EXAMPLE OF A, UM, OF A TOWN THAT HAS CENTRAL WATER AND SEWER. ALTHOUGH THE SEWER IS NOW OWNED BY HRSD, THE TOWN OF AN C**K HAS ITS OWN, UH, YOU KNOW, IT'S STILL, UH, IT'S STILL, UH, UM, OFFERS ITS OWN WATER AS A SERVICE TO ITS RESIDENCE. SO THE DIFFERENCE REALLY BEING, UH, HAVING YOUR OWN WELL IN SEPTIC ON SITE VERSUS BEING ON A SYSTEM AND THEN CONNECTING TO THAT SYSTEM THAT YOU DON'T HAVE TO, THAT YOU, YOU ESSENTIALLY PAY TO MAINTAIN THROUGH YOUR, THROUGH BILLING. OKAY. SO, THANK YOU. ONE, ONE COMMENT IS FOR PRIVATELY OWNED SEWERS, IT HAS TO BE CENTRALLY IN THE SUBDIVISION, UNLESS IT'S ADJACENT TO THE SUBDIVISION DIRECTLY. YOU CAN'T HAVE CENTRAL SEWER PRIVATELY OWNED AND CAPTAINS COVE AND FEED GREENVILLE. IT HAS TO BE ADJACENT PROPERTY. IS THAT CORRECT? I HAVE NEVER READ ANY OF THAT. I'VE NEVER READ THAT IN THE ORDINANCE ANYWHERE. OH, THAT WAS THE, UM, DETERMINATION FOR THIS, THE FIRST GO ROUND. OKAY. THAT THEY WERE USING CAPTAIN'S COVE SEWER, AND IN THE, UM, SUBDIVISION, IT SAYS CENTRAL SEWER IS WITHIN THE SUBDIVISION. OKAY, WELL, IM GONNA LET, AND BECAUSE THESE TWO, UH, LOTS MEET THAT, THAT IS CONSIDERED CENTRAL TO THIS DEVELOPMENT. MM-HMM . BUT NORMALLY IF YOU HAVE A PRIVATE, IT HAS TO BE IN THE SUBDIVISION OR ADJACENT. I'M SURE THERE ARE MANY EXAMPLES OF WHERE, UH, WHERE A PRIVATE COMPANY WILL SERVE PROPERTIES THAT ARE NOT IMMEDIATELY ADJACENT TO THEM. BUT BE THAT AS IT MAY BACK IN 2022, IT WAS DECIDED THAT THAT WAS AN ACCEPTABLE ARRANGEMENT BECAUSE CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT, ACTUALLY, AND THE REZONING WAS, UH, YOU KNOW, THE REZONING WAS GRANTED CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT WAS, UH, WAS PASSED. LEE, SIR, WELL, HAS THERE BEEN ANY EFFORT ON THE PART OF THIS BUILDER, WHOEVER IT MAY BE, TO ADDRESS ALL THE CONCERNS THAT THE RESIDENTS HAD BACK IN 21, WHERE THEY, THERE WERE SEVERAL HUNDRED OF 'EM SHOWED UP, THEY SIGNED A PETITION ABOUT 600 NAMES. UH, HAS THERE BEEN ANY ATTEMPT TO, UH, MEND FENCES, SHALL WE SAY? YES. AND WHAT I WILL DO IN A, IN A COUPLE OF MINUTES IS I WILL GIVE, UH, MR. HEARN OR, UH, YOU KNOW, HE'S HERE TO REPRESENT HIS APPLICATION. HE'S GONNA BE ABLE TO BETTER RESPOND TO THOSE KINDS OF QUESTIONS. YOU KNOW, WE'RE HERE JUST PROVIDING THE INFORMATION AND THE ANALYSIS OF THE, OF THE PROFFERS, THE WAIVER REQUEST. I UNDERSTAND. AND THE LAYOUT. MM-HMM . I UNDERSTAND. BUT I KNOW THAT THERE IS A WHOLE HISTORY TO THIS CASE THAT, UH, THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, IF ONE GOES THROUGH THE MINUTES AND THE LITIGATION AND EVERYTHING, IT IS QUITE COMPLICATED. BUT IN TERMS OF THE, UH, IN TERMS OF THE FENCE MENDING AND THE OUTREACH, UH, YOU KNOW, THAT IS OBVIOUSLY A BEST PRACTICE. IT IS. UM, IT IS HIGHLY SUGGESTED THAT THEY DO THAT, WHICH IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT THEY HAVE DONE THAT. AND, UH, AGAIN, IF, UH, IF HE IS ALLOWED TO, HE CAN, UH, UH, HE CAN DETAIL HIS, UH, EFFORTS, MR. HEARN CAN DETAIL HIS EFFORTS TO DO SO. OKAY. OKAY. WHERE WERE WE? UH, WE, WE DISCUSSED THE WAIVER REQUESTS AND, UM, YOU KNOW, THE, WE, WE JUST WENT OVER THE, UH, UM, THE PROFFER AMENDMENTS. I THINK THAT IT WAS PROFFERS, UM, EIGHT THROUGH EIGHT THROUGH 12, 11, 12, I'M SORRY, SEVEN THROUGH 12 THAT WERE, UH, UH, UH, CORRECTION EIGHT THROUGH 12 THAT WERE, UH, THAT WERE AMENDED. BUT, UM, IF WE COULD ZOOM IN ON THE, UH, ON THE FIRST COLUMN, STARTING AT THE TOP. I'M SORRY, THE FIRST TWO COLUMNS. THERE WE GO. YEAH, LET'S, LET'S KEEP THE, LET'S KEEP THE THREE COLUMNS IN FRONT OF ME. THERE WE GO. I THINK THAT SHOULD BE, UH, UH, GOOD ENOUGH. NOW, THERE IS A LOT TO UNPACK HERE, [00:25:02] BUT WE WILL GO WITH THE, UM, UH, WELL, WE DO HAVE THE SHORT DESCRIPTIONS. NUMBER ONE, CENTRAL WATER AND SEWER, UH, TWO TO THE QUESTION THAT YOU HAD MADAM CHAIR ABOUT CENTRAL WATER AND SEWER. THIS IS THE ORIGINAL PROFFER. AND THE ORIGINAL PROFFER ACTUALLY STAYS EXACTLY THE SAME. THAT PROFFER REGARDING CENTRAL WATER AND SEWER REEDS. UH, THE OWNER SHALL PROVIDE AT ITS SOLE EXPENSE, PUBLIC OR CENTRAL SEWER AND WATER FACILITIES TO SERVE THE, THE HASTINGS MARINER DEVELOPMENT. UH, SUCH FACILITIES SHALL BE APPROVED BY THE VIRGINIA, UH, HEALTH DEPARTMENT OR DEQ AND, UM, UH, PRIOR TO THE ISSUANCE OF A CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY FOR ANY RESIDENTIAL DWELLING OR COMMERCIAL BUILDING IN THE DEVELOPMENT. WHAT THAT MEANS IS, AND IT SAYS NOTHING ABOUT THE LOCATION OF SAID, UH, PUBLIC OR CENTRAL SEWER OR WATER, BUT THEY WILL NOT BE ABLE TO BUILD UNTIL THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT AND DEQ HAVE PROVIDED THEIR OKAY. PROFFER NUMBER TWO, UH, THERE IS A LITTLE BIT OF A CHANGE THERE. IT ORIGINALLY READS, OWNER AGREES THAT THE PORTION OF THE HASTINGS MARINER DEVELOPMENT DESIGNATED FOR COMMERCIAL USE WILL CONSIST OF BUSINESSES THAT ARE INTENDED TO SERVE THE RESIDENTIAL PORTION OF THE MIXED USE COMMUNITY, SUCH AS RETAIL OFFICE AND CHILDCARE. EACH PROPOSED, UH, COMMERCIAL USE SHALL BE PRESENTED TO THE AKIMA COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION PRIOR TO ISSUANCE OF A BUILDING PERMIT FOR ANY BUILDING OR STRUCTURE INTENDED TO HOUSE SUCH USE. SO HERE IN THE THIRD COLUMN, UH, WHAT, AND, AND FIRST OF ALL, WHAT, WHAT WE REALLY INTENDED TO, UH, TO ILLUSTRATE HERE IS THE PROGRESSION OF THE LANGUAGE. THE FIRST COLUMN IS WHAT WAS APPROVED BACK IN 2022. THE SECOND COLUMN IS WHAT THEY HAD ORIGINALLY. UM, UH, IT WAS THEIR, UH, PROPOSED AMENDED PROFFERS. AND THEN THE THIRD COLUMN IS THE MOST RECENT VERSION AFTER I AND THE COUNTY ATTORNEY HAD WEIGHED IN ON THAT. SO, FOR PROFFER NUMBER TWO, UM, UH, IT, UH, IT GETS A LITTLE BIT MORE SPECIFIC IN TERMS OF THE, IN TERMS OF WHAT IS BEING PROPOSED OR WHAT'S BEING PRESENTED TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION. UH, IT DISPENSES WITH THE LANGUAGE ABOUT MIXED USE AND RETAIL AND OFFICE AND CHILDCARE BECAUSE, UH, THE VILLAGE DEVELOPMENT DISTRICT REGULATIONS ALLOWS ALL OF THAT. SO THAT LANGUAGE WAS A LITTLE BIT EXTRANEOUS. IF THEY CAME IN AND WANTED TO DO SOMETHING THAT WASN'T LISTED HERE, BUT IT'S STILL ALLOWED IN THE ORDINANCE, IT WOULD STILL BE, QUOTE, UNQUOTE LEGAL. SO THAT THAT LANGUAGE WAS TIGHTENED UP A LITTLE BIT. AND THEN THEY SAY, PRIOR TO THE ISSUANCE OF A BUILDING PERMIT FOR ANY SUCH COMMERCIAL USE, A SITE PLAN FOR EACH PROPOSED USE SHALL BE PRESENTED TO THE AKIMA COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION FOR RECOMMENDATION TO THE DEPUTY COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR OR HIS DESIGNEE. SO NORMALLY SITE PLANS, UH, THAT ARE BY RIGHT, DON'T COME TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION, BUT IT WAS THEIR PROFFER THAT SAYS IT. WHATEVER THEY, WHATEVER THEY PROPOSE FROM A COMMERCIAL STANDPOINT WILL COME, WHETHER IT'S BUYRIGHT SPECIAL USE, CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT, THE PLANNING COMMISSION WILL SEE THAT END UP AND MAKE A RECOMMENDATION TO THE STAFF. THE THIRD PROPER REGARDING LANDSCAPING. UM, I WON'T, DO YOU WANT ME TO READ ALL OF THE PROFFERS AS I GO THROUGH? OR HOW, HOW, HOW WOULD YOU LIKE ME TO APPROACH THIS? BECAUSE I KNOW THAT IT COULD GET KIND OF LONG IF I DO THAT. I'VE READ 'EM ALL. YOU READ 'EM ALL? YEAH, I CAN DO WHATEVER. NO, I DO HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT THE LAST ONE. I THINK. UH, IS THAT PROFFER NUMBER SEVEN OR SOMETHING? 12. ABOUT A THOUSAND DOLLARS OR SOMETHING? YOU'RE GONNA PAY IN 2029. OKAY. CASH PROFIT IS PROFFER NUMBER SEVEN. THAT'S ENOUGH. WHO ARE THEY GONNA PAY? IT DOESN'T STATE THAT, SAY THE VOLUNTEER FIRE IT IS IT, UH, IT, IT, IT, IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE PAID TO THE GREENBACK BILL, VOLUNTEER FIRE DEPARTMENT. OKAY. YEAH, IT'S IN THE FIRST COLUMN. AND THEY JUST DIDN'T CHANGE, THEY JUST DIDN'T CARRY IT OVER TO, I DIDN'T HAVE MY MAGNIFYING GLASS. ME THE THIRD COLUMN, G-G-V-F-D IS LISTED AS THE FIRST CALL. ALRIGHT, THANK YOU. OKAY, LET'S GO BACK UP TO WHERE I LEFT OFF. I THINK IT WAS PROFFER NUMBER THREE. UH, NUMBER THREE WAS LANDSCAPING. UH, WE TIGHTENED UP THE LANGUAGE AS IT PERTAINS TO LANDSCAPING. PROFFER NUMBER FOUR WAS ACTUALLY, UH, STRICKEN IN ITS ENTIRETY BECAUSE THAT PAYMENT HAS ALREADY BEEN MADE. THAT WAS THE $10,000 PAYMENT TO THE [00:30:01] RIPKIN FOUNDATION. THERE'S SOME RENUMBERING THAT GOES ON. NUMBER FIVE BECOMES NUMBER FOUR, AND THEN SO ON AND SO FORTH. BUT PROFFER NUMBER FOUR, PROFFER NUMBER FIVE HERE AS IT IS ON THE SCREEN WITH REGARDS TO A ONE AND A HALF ACRE SITE FOR THE GREEN BLACKVILLE VOLUNTEER FIRE DEPARTMENT, UM, UH, IT'S STILL THERE, BUT THAT LANGUAGE HAS BEEN TIGHTENED UP. OF COURSE, I HAD MENTIONED A COUPLE OF TIMES ALREADY THAT THE LOCATION HAS MOVED FROM FLEMING ROAD TO, UH, TO, UH, UH, COUNTY LINE ROAD, UH, COUNTY LINE ROAD FOR STATE LINE ROAD, EXCUSE. FAR COMPANY'S UNDER NO OBLIGATION TO TO USE THAT MONEY TO DO ANYTHING THERE. THEY SIMPLY CAN, THERE IS NOTHING THAT'S, THERE'S NO SPECIFIC, FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND, THERE'S NO SPEC, THERE'S NO DIRECTION ON WHAT THEY USE THAT MONEY FOR. THAT'S ON THE FIRE COMPANY. RIGHT? THEY'RE GONNA GET A PORTION OF EACH LOT SOLD AND THEY CAN DO WITH IT AS THEY SEE FIT. WELL, THEY WILL GET A, UH, JUST OVER A $1,000, UH, PAYMENT FOR EACH LOT THAT'S SOLD. 3 3, 3 3. SO IN, IF NOTHING HAPPENS IN 29, A CHECK GETS WRITTEN. BUT AS LOTS GET SOLD, AS THE GENTLEMAN SAID, THEN IT'S A LITTLE OVER 3000 LOT. OKAY. 3000, YEAH. AND THEN THAT, THAT GOES TO THE FIRE COMPANY. BUT THERE, THE, THE LAND THAT IS BEING PROFFERED FOR THE EMS STATION, THE FIRE COMPANY IS UNDER NO OBLIGATION DUTY OR COERCE TO DO ANYTHING WITH THAT PROPERTY. THEY CAN, IT'S JUST PROPERTY FOR THEM TO USE OR TO HAVE, IS IT DEEDED TO THEM? YES. YEAH. OKAY. SO ONCE IT'S DEEDED TO THEM, THEY SIMPLY HAVE AN EXTRA PIECE OF PROPERTY, COULD THEY SELL THAT PROPERTY? THERE'S NOTHING THAT WOULD RESTRICT THEM FROM SELLING THAT PROPERTY, ALTHOUGH THE INTENT, THE DISCUSSION HAS ALWAYS BEEN TO TRY TO DO SOMETHING TO IMPROVE RESPONSE TIMES. OKAY. SO THEY NEED TO BRING THAT EMS STATION OUTTA GREENBACK ONTO STATE LINE ROAD OR PREVIOUSLY FLEMING ROAD, BUT STATE LINE ROAD, BUT THERE'S NO, THERE THEY ARE NOT COERCED TO DO SO THEY CAN OR CANNOT DO THAT AT THEIR WILL. THERE'S NOTHING IN THE PROPERTY THAT SAYS THAT THEY HAVE TO. OKAY. SO WHAT WE'RE, WHAT I'M SIMPLY SAYING IS IT'S A VOLUNTEER FOR OUR COMPANY. THEY'RE GONNA GET $3,000 PER LOT, AND THEY CAN, OR THEY CAN DO WHAT, THEY CAN MAKE IMPROVEMENTS AT THE STATION THAT THEY HAVE NOW, OR THEY CAN DO SOMETHING AT THIS NEW LOCATION, OR THEY CAN BUILD A NEW STATION THEMSELVES, OR, YEAH. OKAY. MM-HMM . OKAY. SO THAT WAS PR FOR NUMBER FIVE. UM, PROFFER NUMBER SIX AS IT'S LISTED HERE, IS A, UH, IS ACTUALLY A DONATION TO THE, UH, GREEN BLACKVILLE VOLUNTEER FIRE DEPARTMENT OF, UH, $430,000. AND THAT IS STILL CARRIED OVER TO THE THIRD COLUMN IN THE NEW. SO AGAIN, THAT LANGUAGE HAS JUST TIGHTENED UP A LITTLE BIT. NUMBER SEVEN TALKS ABOUT THE $1,038, UH, UH, CASH PROFFER FOR EACH LOT. AND, UM, LET'S SEE, PROFFER NUMBER, WELL, IT SAYS HERE, NUMBER EIGHT, PRIVATE COMMUNITY ENTRANCE ON FLEMING ROAD. THAT IS ACTUALLY BEING ADDRESSED RIGHT NOW IN A SEPARATE PLAN. SO THAT IS ONE OF THE PROFFERS THAT ACTUALLY GETS STRICKEN. SHORT TERM RENTALS BEING PROHIBITED, THAT IS ANOTHER PROFFER THAT'S BEING STRICKEN. NUMBER 10 SITE DEVELOPED, UH, IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE CONCEPT PLAN, UH, THAT GETS STRICKEN, ALTHOUGH WE WOULD PROBABLY RECOMMEND THAT SOMETHING BE PUT INTO ENSURE THAT. SO ON NUMBER NINE, ARE WE ON NUMBER NINE? WHICH ONE ARE YOU ON? UM, I MOVED ON NUMBER 10, BUT, UM, JUST TO, UH, RECAP. SEVEN WAS CASH PROFFER NUMBER EIGHT WAS THE PRIVATE COMMUNITY ENTRANCE, WHICH IS BEING ADDRESSED IN A SEPARATE PLAN RIGHT NOW, WHICH IS WHY, UH, IT'S, SO WOULD A FEE SIMPLE TRANSFER, THE OWNER HIMSELF COULD AIRBNB IT IF HE WANTED TO? OR IS THAT NOT ALLOWED IN ACKMAN? I'M JUST CURIOUS. IT'S ALLOWED. IT'S ALLOWED. OKAY. YEAH. SO THE, THE INDIVIDUAL OWNER, SHOULD THEY SO DECIDE TO AIRBNB IT? THEY COULD, THEY COULD. ONE WAY TO CONTROL THAT, IF IT'S THIS COMMISSION'S DESIRE TO RECOMMEND A RESTRICTION ON SHORT TERM RENTALS IS TO, UH, IS TO, IS TO MENTION THAT, UH, UH, MAYBE IT COULD BE PUT IN A DEED RESTRICTION OR SOMETHING TO THAT EFFECT, BECAUSE WE WOULD STILL NEED TO SEE THE DEED, UH, AND THE HOA DOCUMENTS. WELL, I CERTAINLY WOULDN'T RESTRICT, YOU KNOW, THE, THE, THE MASTERS, YOU KNOW, IN THE IRS, YOU'RE ALLOWED TO RENT YOUR PLACE FOR 14 DAYS WITHOUT HAVING TO PAY ANY TAXES ON IT. I CERTAINLY WANT RESTRICT, WANT MORE TO RESTRICT THEM FROM BEING AVAILED OF THAT FEDERAL CODE. SO, BUT I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW HOW WE WOULD RESTRICT FUTURE OWNERS ANYWAY. I'M JUST CURIOUS. RIGHT. WELL, THAT PROFFER HAS BEEN STRICKEN, BUT, UH, ACCORDING TO, WELL, THEY'RE, THEY'RE NOT GONNA OWN THEM. IT'S GONNA BE FEE SIMPLE TO THE NEW OWNER, AND THE NEW OWNER CAN THEN [00:35:01] DECIDE WHETHER THEY'RE GONNA AIRBNB IT OR NOT. RIGHT. UH, NUMBER 10, AND, AND THANK YOU FOR THAT. UM, UH, NUMBER 10 HERE ON THE, ON THE CHART OR THE MATRIX SITE DEVELOPED IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE CONCEPT PLAN THAT HAS BEEN REMOVED. UM, ALTHOUGH I WOULD, I WOULD SUGGEST THAT, UH, THAT WE WOULD NEED SOME ASSURANCE THAT THEY'RE NOT GONNA COME IN AND CHANGE THE PLAN, UH, SIGNIFICANTLY WITHOUT IT NEEDING TO COME BACK TO THE CONVENTION. SO, CAN I ASK ANOTHER QUESTION? OH, SORRY. GO AHEAD. YES, GO AHEAD. I, I WAS JUST, SO WHEN WE, AND I WAS A NEWBIE ON THIS COMMISSION, LIKE BRAND NEW, THE FIRST MEETING WHEN WE WENT THROUGH THIS, AND, AND, AND I'M A LITTLE MORE CLEAR NOW ON HOW THIS WORKS, BUT WE HAD, UM, I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU CALL 'EM OR NOT ELEVATION, BUT WE HAD DRAWINGS OF WHAT THEY WERE GONNA BUILD AND, AND NOW I DON'T SEE ANY DRAWINGS OF WHAT THEY INTEND, WHETHER THEY BUILD IT LIKE THAT. BUT, YOU KNOW, THEY HAD NICE PICTURES OF WHAT THEY INTENDED TO DO, SUCH THAT WE COULD UNDERSTAND THAT THE DESIGN WOULD BE IN KEEPING, AS I'VE ALWAYS SAID, IN IN, IN KEEPING WITH THE MANNER IN WHICH THE EASTERN SHORE IS TRADITION AND, AND THE WAY THINGS LOOK. AND I DON'T SEE ANY PICTURES IN ANY OF THE PACKETS THAT YOU SENT ME OF ANY OF THOSE DESIGN PICTURES. NONE WAS PROVIDED EVEN UPON REQUEST. ARE WE GOING TO GET ANY OF THOSE? I WOULD, I'M GONNA ASK YOU TO DIRECT THAT QUESTION TO THE APPLICANT. OKAY. RIGHT. AND THEN, UM, LET'S SEE, NUMBER 11, USE AND MAINTENANCE OF CAPTAIN'S CORRIDOR. IT'S THE APPLICANT'S CONTENTION THAT THAT HAS BEEN, UH, LITIGATED. SO THAT PROFFER IS NOT NEEDED. YOU CAN SCROLL DOWN TO THE LAST ONE, WHICH BASICALLY GOES INTO THE DEFINITION OF OWNER, AS YOU CAN SEE VERY LITTLE HERE IN THE THREE, IN THE FIRST THREE COLUMNS, THE ORIGINAL PROFFER, NUMBER 12 STATED AS USED HEREIN, UH, OWNER MEANS CCG NOTE, LLC, WHICH NO LONGER OWNS THE PROPERTY, AND ANY SUCCESSORS AND ASSIGN THAT ARE OWNED OR CONTROLLED, UH, UH, BY CCG NOTE, LLC OR ITS MEMBERS. SO THAT IS A VERY QUICK AND DIRTY RUNDOWN ON THE PROFFERS. OKAY. DID, DID I HEAR $430,000? IT'S PAID OUT AS PER, AS EACH LOT IS SOLD. BUT THAT'S THE CAP. THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE OFFERING? YEAH. SO THEN IF THEY DON'T SELL THE LOTS WITHIN SEVEN YEARS, THEY'LL PAY THE REST OF IT IN THE $145,000 UP FRONT PAYMENT IF THEY DON'T SELL 'EM WITHIN SEVEN YEARS. SO THE, THE FIREHOUSE GETS THEIR MONEY. OKAY. SO AS THEY SELL 'EM, THEY'LL PAY. AND THEN IF THEY DON'T SELL 'EM WITHIN SEVEN YEARS, THEY MAKE 145,000 PAYMENT. GOTCHA. THANK YOU. OKAY. SO THE $145,000 GOES TO FIRE COMPANY. FIRE COMPANY, OKAY. BY MAY THE 18TH, 2029. 29, OKAY. THREE YEARS. RIGHT. SO, UH, PROFFER NUMBER SIX TALKS ABOUT THE $430,000, UH, PAYMENT. AND THEN NUMBER SEVEN, UH, TALKS ABOUT THE, BASICALLY THE A THOUSAND DOLLARS PER PER LOT, RIGHT? RIGHT. IT'S TWO DIFFERENT, UH, I ADDED THEM TOGETHER. SORRY, THEY'RE TWO SEPARATE THINGS. RIGHT. SO I STILL PAY 430,000, RIGHT? YEAH. LET'S ZOOM IN ON THIS ONE RIGHT HERE. SO AFTER NINE YEARS AND THEY PAY 140, AND THEN THEY START SELLING LOTS, DO THEY GET THE, THE DIFFERENCE AFTER EACH LOT? OR IS IT THEY IT COULD BE, SORRY, BE THE DOWN, BE THE DOWN PAYMENT, AND THEN IF LOTS HAPPEN, IT BUILDS UP IN THE FOUR 30. GOTCHA. THANK YOU. SO IS THERE, I'M SORRY, GO. I HATE TO BOUNCE AROUND, BUT, UM, IS THERE NO WAY TO PUT SIDEWALKS IN THERE? I WOULD SAY THAT THERE IS A WAY, BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT THE PLAN HAS BEEN. THAT'S NOT WHAT THE, UH, THAT'S NOT PROVIDED FOR IN THE PLAN. IS THAT SOMETHING IT'S CERTAINLY RECOMMENDED. DO WE HAVE ANY SAY OVER THAT OR THROUGH A RECOMMENDATION? YOU DO, YES. OKAY. SO I THINK THE ORIGINAL PLAN DID HAVE SIDEWALKS, BUT THE DRIVEWAY WAS 20 FOOT TO THE ROAD, SO PEOPLE PARKED WHERE THE SIDEWALK WAS, YOU KNOW? YEAH, YEAH. SO IT'S MOVING THE HOUSE CLOSER TO THE ROAD? NO, I DON'T THINK SO. IT'S JUST GETTING RID OF THE SIDEWALK SO THAT YOU'RE NOT PARKING WHERE THE SIDEWALK WAS. YEAH. BUT WASN'T IT, UH, WASN'T THAT THE ORIGINAL ONE WAS 20 FEET AND THIS WAS DOWN? WELL, NO, IT'S FROM THE RIGHT OVER WAY. SO, UM, FIRST OF ALL, LET ME JUST GO AHEAD AND SAY THAT, UM, UH, BESIDES THE, YOU KNOW, THE REST OF THE STAFF REPORT [00:40:01] TALKS ABOUT THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, UH, ELEMENTS AND, AND, UH, AND THE, UH, ZONING ORDINANCE CONSIDERATIONS AND AFFORDABILITY TO THE EXTENT THAT THE PLAN HAS BEEN REVIEWED ABOUT, UH, UM, YOU KNOW, ENVIRONMENTAL AND PUBLIC SAFETY AND THOSE ELEMENTS. I CAN CERTAINLY TALK ABOUT THOSE. THEY'RE ALL IN BLACK AND WHITE IN THE STAFF REPORT. UH, THERE ARE CERTAIN, THERE ARE, UH, UH, THERE ARE VARIOUS ELEMENTS OF THE, OF THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN THAT STILL CONTINUE TO SUPPORT THIS DEVELOPMENT, AS IT SAYS IN THE STAFF REPORT. BUT SINCE THE QUESTION IS ABOUT DESIGN ELEMENTS AND WE'RE TALKING ABOUT SIDEWALKS, UM, I DO, I DID NOT SEE A CROSS SECTION IN THE ORIGINAL APPLICATION. AND IF WE COULD JUST ZOOM INTO ANY, ANY PORTION OF THE GRAY HERE SO THAT WE CAN SEE THERE WERE NEVER SIDEWALKS IN THE ORIGINAL PLAN. THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING IS THAT THERE WERE NEVER ANY SIDEWALKS IN THE ORIGINAL PLAN. NO, I, I REMEMBER WE HAD THE, IT WAS, IT HAD TO GO, IT WAS A WIDER ROAD WITH CURB AND GUTTER IS WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE. BUT I DON'T SEE ANY SIDEWALKS. YEAH, YOU'VE GOT AN INTERNAL NETWORK HERE THAT, UH, THAT COULD STILL BE USED. IT'S JUST, YOU KNOW, IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT SIDEWALKS IN THE TRADITIONAL SENSE NEXT TO THE STREET, THEY'RE NOT PRESENT. BUT IF THESE LINES ARE INTENDED TO REPRESENT SOME SORT OF PEDESTRIAN NETWORK, WHICH THEY ARE, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE WOULD WALK ON THESE. IT DOESN'T SAY IF THEY'RE CONCRETE, DOESN'T SAY IF IT'S CRUSH AND RUN OR, OR ASPHALT OR, UH, OR WHAT HAVE YOU. BUT THE, THE PEDESTRIAN ACCESS ELEMENT OF, UH, OF THE, UM, YOU KNOW, A HIGHER DENSITY OF DEVELOPMENT IS PRESENT IN THE ORIGINAL PLAN. SO NOW WE HAVE, UH, TRAILS. NOW WE HAVE TRAILS. GREAT. AND, AND, AND IF WE GO TO THE BLACK AND WHITE, UM, UPDATED PLAN FROM, FROM, UH, APRIL 15TH, LET'S, LET'S GO DOWN TWO MORE SLIDES OR THREE MORE SLIDES. ONE MORE. THERE WE GO. YEAH. UM, IF WE ZOOM INTO ZOOM IN, IN BETWEEN SOME OF THOSE BUILDINGS, THAT'S WHAT I WAS, IF YOU GO DOWN TO THE BOTTOM A LITTLE BIT. YEAH. DOWN A LITTLE BIT MORE. SO RIGHT THERE, THERE'S A GREEN LINE GOING IN BETWEEN 37 AND 38 AND RIGHT HERE. SO THAT WOULD BE PUBLIC LAND OR, OR COMMUNITY PROPERTY IN BETWEEN THOSE BUILDINGS OR, YEAH, THOSE ARE LOTS, THOSE LOT THE END, THE END GROUPS ARE THIRTIES. SO THE HOME MIGHT BE SITTING ON A 20 OR THE 30 FOOT LOT. SO WE'RE GONNA HAVE PEOPLE WALKING IN BETWEEN. SO THE POA, RIGHT? RIGHT. SO IF, IF TRAILS, IF, IF YOU LOOK BETWEEN LOTS 31 AND 32, AND IT'S AT THIS LITTLE GAP RIGHT HERE IS GONNA BE COMMON AREA AND THOSE THAT'S OBSCURE HERE. OKAY. OVER BY THE GREEN LINE. OKAY. BUT YOU'VE GOT A LITTLE GAP OF COMMON AREA IN BETWEEN LOTS 31 AND 32. THE GAP IN COMMON AREA IS MUCH, IS MUCH MORE PRONOUNCED BETWEEN LOTS 25 AND 26. UH, YOU SEE A LITTLE GAP HERE. UH, THERE'S A GAP THAT GOES ALL THE WAY THROUGH TO, UM, YOU KNOW, BACK BETWEEN LOTS 79 AND 80, 109 AND 110. SO YOU KIND OF GET THE PICTURE THAT THEY'RE, THAT THEY'RE PROVIDING FOR ACCESS OFF OF QUOTE UNQUOTE PRIVATE PROPERTY THROUGH COMMON AREA. OKAY. THERE'S COMMON AREA THERE. COMMON AREA THERE, HERE. AND I ASSUME THERE'LL BE, THE OWNERS MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE FENCES AROUND THERE, LITTLE YARD PARKED BEHIND, LIKE SAY 32. HE WOULD, HE COULD HAVE A FENCE IF THEY SO CHOOSE, BUT THE DEVELOPER'S NOT GONNA PUT IT IN A FENCE. IT MIGHT BE CONSIDERED AN OPTION FOR THE BUILDER WHEN THE BUILDER COMES IN TO START BILLING THE UNITS YEAH. AND SAY, HEY, WE CAN PUT THIS FENCE UP FOR WHATEVER, WHATEVER. GOTCHA. RIGHT. I JUST THINKING ABOUT PEOPLE TRA TRAIPSING AROUND THE LITTLE GREEN LINES, YOU KNOW, I'M ALSO TRYING TO THINK ABOUT THE FUTURE PEOPLE WHO ARE GONNA LIVE THERE AND THEIR COMFORT. RIGHT. SAFETY AND THEIR LIVABILITY. AND IN MY OPINION, SIDEWALKS GO A LONG WAY TOWARDS LIVABILITY. ABSOLUTELY. WHAT'S THE DEFINITION OF A TRAIL? WHAT IS IT WIDTH? UH, YOU KNOW, WELL, LET'S SEE. I I KNOW ON HERE, THIS IS A TOUCH FRAME. OH, IT'S, IT'S JUST . . IT'S, OKAY. [00:45:02] SO THERE'S A LABEL IN THERE ABOUT THE, UH, ABOUT WHAT THEY'RE PROPOSING FOR THE TRAILS USE PARTIAL RETAIL TOTAL TWO UNITS PER SOMEWHERE. OH, HERE, IT'S RIGHT HERE, RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE. GO BACK TO THE LAST ONE. PEDESTRIAN TRAIL NETWORK, CONCEPTUAL PER VILLAGE DEVELOPMENT DISTRICT GUIDELINES, FINAL TRAIL LOCATIONS AND SURFACE MATERIAL TO BE DETERMINED AT THE TIME OF SITE PLAN APPROVED. SO THEY ARE CONSIDERING A SURFACE MATERIAL. WELL, THEY'RE GONNA HAVE TO DO SOMETHING, WHETHER THAT'S ASPHALT, CONCRETE, CRUSH AND RUN, UM, LARGER GRAVEL, WHAT HAVE YOU. WE, WE DO NOT KNOW BECAUSE THEY HAVE NOT TOLD US. OKAY. DID, NOW I'LL GO BACK TO MY ORIGINAL QUESTION. WHAT IS IT? DOES THE COUNTY HAVE A DEFINITION OF A TRAIL? NO. IS THERE, UH, NOT IN ZONING ANYWAYS. OKAY. SO IT COULD BE TWO FOOT WIDE, RIGHT? NO, I, I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT. IT'S JUST, WELL, WELL REALISTICALLY, YOU KNOW, FROM A DESIGN STANDPOINT, IT SHOULD BE A MINIMUM OF FIVE, MAYBE A MAXIMUM OF 10. WELL, THAT'S WHAT I'M TRYING TO GET AT. AND IT SHOULD BE MORE OF A, UH, OF A, OF A COMPACTED SURFACE OF SOME TYPE. IF IT'S GOING TO BE CRUSH AND RUN A GRAVEL. AGAIN, IF THEY WANTED TO GO CADILLAC, THEY COULD DO, THEY COULD DO CONCRETE, THEY COULD DO ASPHALT. I WOULD JUST LIKE TO SEE SIDEWALKS ON THE ROAD, YOU KNOW, IN FRONT OF HOUSES WHERE PEOPLE, AS OPPOSED TO PEOPLE TRACING AROUND MY BACKYARD. ANYWAY, THAT'S JUST MY THOUGHT ON SIDEWALKS, THAT IT IS A, YOU DON'T HAVE A WALKING AREA BEHIND PEOPLE'S OUT HOUSES AND, AND YOU KNOW, THERE'S NO LIGHTING AT NIGHT AND THERE'S NO, I JUST THINK ABOUT IF MY DAUGHTER WAS LIVING THERE, WOULD I WANT PEOPLE WALKING AROUND BEHIND WHERE SHE LIVES. SO WHAT, WHAT I'LL DO IS I'M GONNA GO AHEAD AND INDICATE THAT THIS CONCLUDES MY PRESENTATION, AND I CAN FIELD ANY OTHER QUESTIONS YOU HAVE AT THIS TIME. AND I WILL ALSO SAY THAT THE APPLICANT, MR. TIM HEARN IS ALSO AVAILABLE. SHOULD YOU, SHOULD YOU WANT TO SPEAK WITH HIM AS WELL? YES. I, I GOT A QUESTION FOR STAFF. OKAY. UM, WHAT'S THE PERCENTAGE OF OPEN AREA THAT WOULD STILL HAVE TO BE CALCULATED, BUT THAT COULD BE READILY GOTTEN FROM THEIR ENGINEER? I DO NOT HAVE THAT INFORMATION. DO THEY HAVE STORMWATER MANAGEMENT PLAN FOR THE NEW DESIGN? STORMWATER MANAGEMENT PLAN IS THE, THE FULL DESIGN IS NOT REQUIRED AT THIS TIME. THE PURPOSE OF THE REZONING AND THE CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT IS, AS I HAD MENTIONED LAST TIME, TO ESSENTIALLY SET THE TABLE. WHAT IS REQUIRED AT THIS TIME IS THAT THEY SHOW US THE LOCATIONS OF THEIR, OF THEIR, UH, BMPS. THEY SHOULD ALSO BE SHOWING US THE LOCATIONS OF, UH, INLETS AND THAT KIND OF THING. BUT HERE THEY ARE SHOWING BMT, THEY'RE SHOWING, UH, ACTUALLY THREE. THERE'S THE LARGE ONE, AND THEN THE, AND THEN THERE ARE TWO RIGHT HERE, UM, TO THE, UH, TO THE EAST. BUT THE FULL PLAN WITH THE FULL ENGINEERED PROFILES AND CALCULATIONS FOR TIMING AND WATER QUALITY AND WATER QUANTITY, UH, THAT'S NOT REQUIRED AT THIS TIME. WE DON'T HAVE ANY SAY OVER THAT ANYWAY. THEY HAVE TO DO THAT. THEY WILL HAVE TO DO THAT WITH A FULL SITE PLAN. YEAH. THIS IS NOT A FULL SITE PLAN. RIGHT, RIGHT. BUT AT SOME POINT THEY GOTTA PROVE HUNDRED PERCENT, THEY HAVE TO PROVE THAT THIS WORKS FROM AN ENGINEERING STANDPOINT. RIGHT. SO I SEE THAT THE LOTS AREN'T, UM, MARKED OUT WITH, UH, SETBACKS AND STUFF. THERE'S NO, UH, DRAWINGS. YEAH. THERE, THERE, THERE IS A, UM, THERE IS A DETAIL UP HERE AT THE TOP WITH, WITH TYPICAL SETBACKS. WITH THE MINIMUM SETBACKS. THERE ARE SOME LOTS, FOR INSTANCE, HERE ON THE END, ALONG THE CURVES, UM, THAT, UH, YOU KNOW, THEY MAY HAVE, UH, A DEEPER LOT WITH LONGER SETBACKS. SO THOSE SETBACKS THAT THEY WANTED TO REDUCE, IS THAT ON THAT, IF YOU GO TO THE, LET'S, LET'S ZOOM IN THAT ONE. YEAH. HERE, I'M SORRY. THIS ONE RIGHT HERE. SO CAN YOU, SO X AND Y MINIMUM IS TYPICALLY 30 FEET AND 20 FEET. AND WHAT ARE WE ASKING? WHAT ARE, WHAT ARE THEY ASKING TO REDUCE UP THERE? OKAY, SO GOING BACK TO THE WAIVER REQUEST, THEY'RE ASKING TO REDUCE, UM, THEY'RE ASKING TO REDUCE, UH, FRONTAGE OR [00:50:01] LOT WIDTH, WHICH IS REQUIRED TO BE 150. REAR YARD SETBACK IS 35. THEY WANT TO GO DOWN TO, UM, UH, THEY WANT TO GO DOWN TO UH, UH, 20. THE FRONT YARD SETBACK IS REQUIRED TO BE, UH, 30, UH, 50 50. AND THEN THEY'RE, THEY WANT TO REDUCE THAT DOWN TO 20 AS WELL ON THE SIDES, OR RATHER THE LOT WIDTHS Y REPRESENTS INTERNAL UNITS, WHEREAS X ARE GOING TO BE THE END UNITS. SO A MINIMUM OF 30 FEET FOR THE END UNITS AND A MINIMUM OF 20 FOR THE INTERIOR UNITS. THEY, THAT'S A MINIMUM. IF THEY COME IN AND DO, UH, 24 FEET, 24 FOOT, UH, UNITS, THEN THEY CAN DO THAT. IT MIGHT CHANGE THE LAYOUT A LITTLE BIT, BUT THEY ARE, THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT MINIMUMS HERE. WHAT'S THE 10 FOOT PLUS OR MINUS ON THE RIGHT, ON THE LEFT? UH, THAT IS THE, UH, THAT'S THE SIDE YARD SETBACK SIGN. YOUR PLUS OR MINUS. WHAT'S THE, WHAT ARE THEY ASKING FOR? 10 FOOT OR, UH, FEET? IF THE END OF GROUP IS 20 FEET, IT'D BE 10 FEET. IF IT WENT TO 24 FEET BE, IT'D BE, 'CAUSE IT'S SITTING ON A 30 FOOT WIDE LOT, NOT A 20 FOOT WIDE LOT. SO IF IT COULD GO A, UH, VILLA PRODUCT IS 28 FOOT WIDE. A LARGE TOWN HOME IS 24 FEET WIDE. A STANDARD LARGE TOWN HOME IS 20 FEET. I GOT YOU. SO IT CAN BE 10 FOOT PLUS, NOT 10 PLUS PLUS OR MINUS 10 MINUS PROBABLY. RIGHT. IT IS 20 FEET. IT'S 10 FOOT AND IT'S 24 FEET. IT'S SIX FOOT. ARE YOU NOT ASKING FOR A 10 FOOT SIDE YARD? NO, THAT'S GOTTA BE A MINIMUM OF 10 FEET. RIGHT? 10 FEET. EXCUSE ME. I'M SORRY. REGARDLESS. YEAH, 10 PLUS TO 30. EXCUSE ME. SO THE MINUS HAS TO BE LIKE, IT'S NOT A MINUS. YOU'RE RIGHT. IT'S A PLUS. IT'S ONLY A PLUS, RIGHT? THIS, IT'S UNDERLINED . NO, I THINK THAT'S A MINUS. YEAH, YOU'RE RIGHT. IT'S ONLY A PLUS. IS IT ONLY A PLUS? YES. IS THAT HOW YOU READ IT? 10 YEARS FROM FROM NOW? IT'S ON THE RECORD NOW. I'M JUST SAYING 10 YEARS FROM NOW, ARE YOU GONNA READ IT PLUS OR MINUS OR PLUS WE WILL ASK THE APPLICANT TO REVISE THE PLAN TO MAKE IT CLEAR. ALL RIGHT, THAT'S GOOD POINT. AND I GOT OUTTA FIFTH GRADE MATH . SO WHERE YOU SEE WHERE I SEE CULVERT THAT'S UNDERGROUND OR NO, THAT'S A SWES ON THE OTHER, ON TO THE LEFT THERE. WHEN YOU GO OVER TO THE LEFT, THAT'S JUST LIKE A SWALE. WHEN THEY SAY CULVERT, CULVERT IS A, IS A, UH, IS A CONCRETE PIPE. A SWALE IS AN OPEN DITCH. RIGHT. SO WHEN I SEE THE WORD CULVERT THAT'S UNDER THE DRIVEWAY, THAT'S HOW I, THAT'S HOW I READ IT. OKAY, ME TOO. I JUST TALKING OUT LOUD. SO AS THE 20, SO WE GO BACK TO THE RIGHT A LITTLE BIT. YEAH, IT'S UNDER A DRIVEWAY. GOTCHA. OKAY. YEAH, SO, SO THAT IS A PIPE THAT DAYLIGHTS INTO A DITCH. OKAY. YEAH. OKAY. NO, THAT'S SOMETHING DIFFERENT. OKAY. MY QUESTIONS. SO THE OUTLINE OF THE DRAWINGS NOW IS THAT THEY'RE KIND OF VERY GENERIC AND DOESN'T HAVE A LOT OF, UH, INFORMATION. SO WE APPROVE IT AND THEN TWO YEARS COMES DOWN AND THEY MIX IT UP LIKE, LIKE OTHER APPLICANTS HAVE DONE. I MEAN, YOU REALLY DON'T HAVE A GOOD BASELINE TO START WITH WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE, UH, NUMBERS AND LOT LINES. AND I MEAN, FOR EACH INDIVIDUAL LOT IT'S NOT VERY DETAILED. OKAY. IS THAT A REQUEST TO COME BACK WITH A MORE DETAILED PLAN WITH DIMENSIONS? THAT IS A OBSERVATION THAT I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE IT WHEN WE APPROVE SOMETHING, WE SHOULD KNOW WHAT WE ARE APPROVING. AND THIS IS KIND OF VERY GENERIC AND THE APPLICANT CAN COME BACK WITH ANYTHING THEY WANT LATER BECAUSE IT'S REALLY NOT DEFINED AT THIS POINT. UM, NOR HAVE WE BEEN GIVEN ANY PICTURE OF WHAT THE HOUSE IS GOING TO LOOK LIKE. [00:55:02] WELL, WE, WE CAN'T TELL HIM HOW TO, WHAT COLOR TO PAINT THEIR SIDING. BUT NO, WHAT THE SHAPE TO, TO YOUR POINT MADAM CHAIR, UM, THAT WASN'T PART OF THE LAST APPLICATION EITHER. MAYBE THAT'S A LESSON LEARNED. I DON'T REMEMBER SEEING ANYTHING IN THE RECORD, UM, SHOWING A, A QUOTE UNQUOTE PRELIMINARY PLAT WITH DIMENSIONS. UH, I WILL SAY THAT IN THE, IN THE, UM, ENSUING, UH, OR THE, OR THE, OR THE FOLLOWING CASE LATER ON TONIGHT, WE DO HAVE THAT. BUT, UM, YOU KNOW, IF, IF, AGAIN, IF THAT'S A REQUEST OR IF THAT'S AN OBSERVATION THAT WOULD LEAD TO A REQUEST FOR ADDITIONAL INFORMATION, UH, NOW WOULD BE THE TIME TO ASK. WELL, IN THE APPLICATION FOR CONDITIONAL USE, IT SAYS THE EXACT LOCATION AND USES OF BUILDING STRUCTURES CURRENTLY EXISTING AND PROPOSED FOR THE SITE IN RELATION TO THE PROPERTY LINES. PARTIAL INCLUDING THEIR HEIGHT, SETBACKS FROM PROPERTY LINES, FOOTAGE, ELEVATION, BUILDING SIZE AND SQUARE FOOTAGE SIDE AND REAR YARD DISTANCES AND DISTANCES BETWEEN BUILDINGS OR STRUCTURES IN THE APPLICATION FOR CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT AND SOME SITE PLAN REQUIREMENTS. OKAY. UM, AND THE ONE ABOUT COMING BACK TO THE PLANE, I THINK IT WOULD BE JUST EASIER TO USE THE, MAYBE NOT. SO, UM, WITH REGARD TO THE ELEVATIONS THE FIRST TIME, THERE ABSOLUTELY WERE ELEVATIONS OFFERED. UM, YOU ALL PROVIDED COMMENTS, THEY WERE REVISED AND THEY WERE INCLUDED. THAT WAS FOR AN APARTMENT COMMUNITY. SO ONE FLAVOR OF ELEVATION, YOU KNOW, 140 OF THEM AND EVERYTHING ELSE. WITH THIS, UH, I THINK WE'RE MISSING SOME LANGUAGE. WE'RE TALKING TO D HORTON AND RYAN HOLMES AND ONE OTHER BUILDER, THEY ALL HAVE DIFFERENT ELEVATIONS. SO OUR PLAN WAS THAT ONCE THE BUILDER WAS SELECTED, WE WOULD COME BACK TO THE PLANNING BOARD WITH THEIR ELEVATIONS. IT'S RYAN'S ELEVATION IS DIFFERENT THAN DR. HORTON'S. DR. HORTON'S IS DIFFERENT THAN KIAN AND THINGS LIKE THAT. SO WE HAVE NO PROBLEM ADDING THAT. THE PROFFER, I THINK IT GOT MISSED IN NUMBER TWO WHERE WE WERE GONNA COME BACK TO YOU ALL FOR USES IN THE COMMERCIAL BUILDING. WE WOULD ALSO COME BACK TO YOU WITH THE ELEVATIONS OR A PATTERN BOOK OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, THAT YOU SEE. UM, SO THAT'S FINE. AND YOU KNOW, WE, WE HAD PLANNED ON, ON COMING BACK FOR THAT. ONCE THAT BUILDER WAS IDENTIFIED, UM, WITHIN THE PLANNING BOARD, THERE WAS A DIFFERENCE OF OPINION BACK THEN ON THE APARTMENTS. SOME PEOPLE WANTED IT, YOU KNOW, I, I WAS THINKING IT WAS GONNA END UP AS A COASTAL LOOK. IT ENDED UP LOOKING AS A TRADITIONAL SUBURBAN LOOK ACTUALLY, WHICH WAS WHAT WAS APPROVED. UM, BUT THIS IS 2026, WHATEVER NBR OR RYAN OR COME IN AND YOU ALL APPROVE, THAT WOULD BE THE WAY TO GO THERE. UM, THE, WITH REGARD TO THE SIDEWALKS, GOING BACK TO THAT CUT SHEET ON THE SITE PLAN, THE SLOPE IS WHAT KEEPS THE SIDEWALKS FROM HAPPENING. AND WHEN WE'RE TALKING TO THE BUILDERS, THEY HAVE INDICATED THEIR PROBLEM WITH SIDEWALKS IN COMMUNITIES LIKE THIS IS THEY END UP AS PARKING. UM, AND SO THE IDEA THAT IT BECOMES A FREE FLOW, UM, YOU CAN SEE THE SLOPE COMING IN OFF OF THE PRIVATE ROAD PAVING SECTION. SO, UM, SO YOU'RE SAYING CARS WOULD PARK UP ON THE WALL. THAT'S WHAT THE BUILDERS SAY. OKAY. AND IT'S THEREFORE THAT FEW, I ABSOLUTELY HEAR WHAT YOU'RE SAYING ABOUT GOING IN THE BACKYARD. AND I THINK WE SHOULD JUST HAVE OUR ENGINEERS GET RID OF THE ONES THAT ARE IN PEOPLE'S BACKYARDS WITH THAT TRAIL AND THINGS LIKE THAT. THE, THE SURFACE OF THE TRAIL IS MEANT TO BE PERVIOUS, MEANING WATER CAN FLOW THROUGH IT. SO SOMETIMES IT'S CHIPS, SOMETIMES, UH, DEPENDING ON, I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOUR ALL'S TEAM VIEW IS ON WHETHER GRAVEL IS A PERVIOUS SURFACE AND THINGS LIKE THAT, BUT IT'S, UM, THAT GRAY TYPE TYPE OF WALKING TRAIL TYPE SITUATION. SO IT'S NOT MEANT TO BE CONCRETE, IT'S NOT MEANT TO BE PAVING 'CAUSE THOSE ARE IMPERVIOUS. UM, AND AGAIN, WE CAN ADD, ADD TO THAT IN TERMS OF MR. SPARKMAN'S COMMENT ABOUT THE COMMUNITY. UM, THERE WERE FOUR OR FIVE MAJOR ITEMS THAT THAT GROUP WAS FOCUSED ON. ONE WAS RENTAL, UM, AND, UH, THAT WAS HIGHLY EMOTIONAL AND EVERYTHING ELSE. UM, THAT'S NOT WHAT THIS IS. THAT WAS ONE LOT OF 140 APARTMENT UNITS. MAYBE IT WAS TWO LOTS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. THIS IS 140 [01:00:01] DIFFERENT LOTS. AND BECAUSE AKIMA COUNTY DOESN'T HAVE A TOWNHOUSE APPROVAL IN IT, THAT'S WHY ALL THE VARIANCES ARE NEEDED. IT, SO THAT'S WHY IT'S NOT GONNA HAVE A, A 50 FOOT FRONT, UH, WIDTH AND A 10,000 SQUARE FOOT SITE, ALL THOSE TYPES OF THINGS. SO WE'RE, WE'RE, WE'RE HAVING IT WORK THAT WAY. THE, UM, GOING BACK TO THE CONVERSATION, SO I MET WITH THE CAPTAINS COVE COMMUNITY, THE GREENBACK BILL COMMUNITY, THE HORN TOWN COMMUNITY, THE ATLANTIC COMMUNITY, UH, THE FOUR LARGEST, UH, VOTING AREAS OF THE SECOND SUPERVISORY DISTRICT. AND SO PRESENTED THE FIRST ITERATION OF THESE DRAWINGS, THE MESSAGING FROM, UM, THE CAPTAIN'S COVE COMMUNITY WAS GET AWAY FROM RENTALS, GET AWAY FROM RENTALS AND EVERYTHING ELSE. SO THIS IS A FOR SALE COMMUNITY. UH, IT'S NOT AN APARTMENT COMMUNITY. THERE'S STILL CLEARLY A DEMAND IN AIMA COUNTY FOR RENTALS. UM, BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT THIS IS. THIS IS THE FOR SALE PRODUCT. ALSO BECAUSE THERE IS NOW CODE IN AIMA COUNTY THAT CONTROLS SHORT TERM RENTALS. THEY'RE PERMITTED, THEY'RE REGULATED, THEY'RE LICENSED AND ALL THOSE THINGS. IF ONE OF THESE TOWN HOMES ENDS UP BEING A SHORT TERM RENTAL, THERE'S ALREADY COUNTY CODE JUST LIKE THERE IS FOR EVERY OTHER HOME IN THE COUNTY. UM, THAT WASN'T THE CASE IN 2021. IT HADN'T GOTTEN DONE BY THAT POINT. AND THIS WAS, UH, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU WERE AT THAT MEETING, THE MOST CONTENTIOUS MEETING I'VE EVER HAD, THE, UM, WHILE SEA RAY PRUITT ABSOLUTELY WAS A FAN OF A FLEMING ROAD EMS LOCATION, THE PROFFER BACK THEN ACTUALLY OFFERED TWO ALTERNATIVES. ONE WAS FLEMING ROAD, ONE WAS STATE LINE ROAD, UM, BUT THE RESIDENCE OF CAPTAIN'S CODE CLEARLY DIDN'T WANT THOSE LOTS FRONTING ON FLEMING ROAD TO BE USED FOR THE EMS STATION. SO NOW IT'S FLIPPED OVER TO HERE AND PUT ON THIS ROAD. UM, THE ITEMS THAT GOT LITIGATED, ONE WAS THE OWNERSHIP OF CA OF CAPTAIN'S CARTER, UM, THAT GOT RESOLVED IN 2023 BY JUDGE REBEL LEWIS. AND HE CONFIRMED THAT THIS PROPERTY OWNS TO THE CENTER LINE OF CAPTAIN'S CARTER, UH, AND THE DEVELOPER OF CAPTAINS CARTER OWNS TO THE OTHER CENTER LINE FROM THE OTHER SIDE. CAPTAINS CURVE HAS AN EASEMENT ACROSS THAT. AND SO THERE'S NO DISRUPTING THAT DISTURBING IT OR ANYTHING ELSE. UM, IS WERE PEOPLE HAPPY THAT A JUDGE DETERMINED THAT? NOT REALLY, BUT A JUDGE DETERMINED THAT, AND THEY CHOSE NOT TO APPEAL IT WITH REGARD TO THE UTILITY COMPANY, THE UTILITY COMPANY THAT OWNS LAND. THE LAND IS INSIDE OF THE CAPTAIN'S COVE COMMUNITY, BUT IT IS NOT PART OF CAPTAIN'S COVE. THAT UTILITY COMPANY IS AWKWARD VIRGINIA, THAT'S A PUBLICLY TRADED PUBLIC UTILITY COMPANY, $9 BILLION, THAT TYPE OF THING. IT'S TARIFF WITH THE STATE CORPORATION COMMISSION IS FOR NORTHERN AKIMA COUNTY, NOT JUST FOR CAPTAIN'S CODE. THOSE RESIDENTS THAT YOU SAW, THEY, THEY FELT IT WAS THEIR UTILITY COMPANY BEING USED FOR OTHER PURPOSES AND THINGS LIKE THAT. AGAIN, JUDGE LEWIS RULED, UH, NOT ONLY WERE THEY WRONG, BUT THAT THE STATE CORPORATION COMMISSION CONTROLS ALL THOSE ITEMS AND IT HAD ALREADY RULED IN 2015, MORE THAN 10 YEARS AGO, UM, ON THIS MATTER AND THINGS LIKE THAT. YEAH, WELL, THEY HAD COMPLAINTS, LOTS OF THEM, ABOUT THE WATER QUALITY AND THAT IT HAD BEEN SOLD MULTIPLE TIMES. AS I RECALL, IT WAS ONLY SOLD ONCE OR TWICE IN 50 YEARS. SO AQUA HAS BEEN OPERATING AND OWNING THE COMPANY SINCE 2015. UM, SO OVER 11 YEARS NOW. UM, SO THOSE ARE THE LITIGATED ITEMS. THAT'S HOW THEY GOT OUT OF THE PROFFERS. UM, THE OTHER ITEMS, UM, OTHER QUESTIONS. OH, THE BUILDERS. SO THE R HORTON SAYS 20 FOOT IS GREAT. THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE BUILDING UP IN SALISBURY, UH, HAVING A LOT OF SUCCESS, 2 25 TO TWO 60 PRICE POINTS. UH, RYAN HOMES NBR IS MORE AMBITIOUS. THEY'RE, THEY'RE FINE WITH 20 FOOT ON THE INSIDES. THEY WANT TO BE ABLE TO GO TO 24 FOOT WIDE ON THE END OF GROUPS, OR MAYBE EVEN 20 EIGHTHS BECAUSE ON THE 20 EIGHTHS IT WOULD HAVE A FIRST FLOOR MASTER BEDROOM. UM, AND THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT IN THE MEETINGS WITH THOSE COMMUNITY MEMBERS, THEY ALL TALKED ABOUT IS HOW DO WE GET AWAY FROM STAIRS? WE STILL WANT TO TOWN HOME LIVING, THOSE TYPES OF THINGS. SO THERE WAS AN AN ENORMOUS AMOUNT OF FEEDBACK. IT WASN'T ALL THE SAME BECAUSE FOREIGN TOWN IS DIFFERENT THAN CAPTAINS COVE. IS THIS DIFFERENT THAN GREENBACK MILL IS DIFFERENT THAN ATLANTIC IN TERMS OF WHAT THEY FOCUSED ON. BUT THOSE MEETINGS ALL DID HAPPEN AND THINGS LIKE THAT. AND NOBODY YELLED AT ME DURING [01:05:01] THOSE MEETINGS, WHICH WAS UNUSUAL FOR THIS PRIOR PROJECT. I'M NOT SAYING EVERYBODY'S HAPPY, BUT THEY DIDN'T, YOU KNOW, I THINK THE, I THINK THE DISSATISFACTION ALL GOT RESOLVED WHEN JUDGE LEWIS ISSUED HIS ORDERS ABOUT THE MOST CONTENTIOUS ITEMS AND THINGS LIKE THAT. UM, SO COMING BACK HERE WITH THE ELEVATIONS. ABSOLUTELY. THAT'S WHY WE DIDN'T SUBMIT ANYTHING RIGHT NOW. UM, IF THIS PLAN NEEDS MORE WORK, UH, MRS. WINGFIELD, YOU KNOW, THAT'S FINE. WE CAN HAVE THE ENGINEERS DO THAT. WE'RE NOT ASKING, I MEAN, THIS HAS MEANT, I MEAN, WE CAME BACK DE NOVO. WE DIDN'T TAKE THE, I MEAN, WHEN WE, WHEN WE DID THIS, LEE POINTED OUT THAT HE CONSIDERED THIS A MAJOR CHANGE FROM THE APARTMENT DESIGN, EVEN THOUGH THE DENSITY UNITS WERE THE SAME AND THINGS LIKE THAT FOR ALL THE REASONS. SO WE WERE WILLING TO START FROM SCRATCH, SO TO SPEAK, EVEN THOUGH THERE IS HISTORY THAT WE ALL CAN WORK FROM. UM, WELL, AS I RECALL, THE, UH, BASE PEOPLE CAME AND THEY SAID THAT WE NEEDED AFFORDABLE HOUSING FOR THE MILITARY. YEAH. BOY, I'LL NEVER USE THE WORD AFFORDABLE IN FRONT OF THAT AUDIENCE AGAIN. , YOU KNOW, I NOW SAY IT'S 250,000 POUND OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. THAT'S A FUNGIBLE DEFINITION. YEAH. AFFORDABILITY IS OUT OF THE WINDOW IN ABA COUNTY. SO, UM, BUT OBVIOUSLY THERE'S STILL A RENTAL HOUSING NEED, SO IT'S JUST THIS IS ONLY YES, SIR. THE CONTROL OF THE, THE PROJECT, IF IT'S GOING TO PRIVATE OWNERS, DO YOU HAVE SOME CONCERN ABOUT KEEPING IT, UH, OR THE HOOA, UH, IS THAT GOING TO BE AN ACTIVE PART OF MAINTAINING STANDARDS HERE? AND SECONDLY, UH, THE PROPERTY THAT YOU'RE GOING TO DEED TO THE FAR COMPANY OR TO THE EMS STATION DOESN'T REQUIRE THEM TO? SO WHAT HAPPENS IF THEY JUST DECIDE TO LET IT GROW UP IN WEEDS? UM, UH, I HADN'T ANTICIPATED THAT. UM, WE COULD CERTAINLY PUT A RESTRICTION ON IT OR INCLUDED IN THE POA, THE PROPERTY OWNER'S ASSOCIATION ABOUT THE PROPERTY OWNER'S DUTY TO MAINTAIN AND THINGS LIKE THAT WITH FENCES. USUALLY THE PROPERTY OWNER ASSOCIATION DETERMINES THE SPECIFICATION AND ONE KIND OF FENCE GETS BUILT, YOU KNOW, IF SOMEBODY CHOOSES TO BUILD A FENCE. SO THE POA DOES THAT, UH, THEY ALSO HAVE MAINTENANCE STANDARDS ABOUT CUTTING GRASS AND ALL THOSE TYPES OF THINGS. UM, I HAVEN'T, I DON'T THINK, I MEAN, THE VOLUNTEER FIRE DEPARTMENT AND MR. PRUITT AND EVERYONE ELSE, I THINK IT'S UP TO 20 OR 30 CALLS A MONTH GOING INTO CAPTAIN'S COVE. UM, SO I, I THINK GETTING IT OUT OF GREENVILLE TO GIVE THEM MORE ROOM FOR OTHER EQUIPMENT IS THE CONVERSATION. OF COURSE, YOU KNOW, WHO KNOWS WHAT THEY ALL CHOOSE TO DO IN 2028? IT'S THEIR CHOICE, BUT THE PROPERTY GETS DEEDED TO THEM WHEN THE PLAQUE GETS RECORDED, NOT WHEN THE HOMES GET SOLD SO THAT THE, WHEN THE PLAQUE GETS RECORDED, THAT'S WHEN THE FEED HAPPENS TO THE FIRE COMPANY. THE MONEY FOLLOWS AS THE LOT SALES HAPPEN. AND THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ANYTHING, BUT IT'S MY OPINION THAT THE, YOU KNOW, AT SOME POINT IN THE FUTURE, THE COUNTY'S GONNA TAKE OVER ALL THE FIRE COMPANIES ANYWAY, AND THEY'RE ALL SUFFERING. SO, I MEAN, PROBABLY OUGHT TO BE DEEDED TO THE COUNTY AND NOT THE FIRE DEPARTMENT. WE WERE TOLD NOT TO CHANGE THAT PROFFER, AND WE HAD, WE HAD ALL, THE FIRST PLAN ACTUALLY SAID, I'M JUST TALKING OUT LOUD, IT'S A WORK SESSION. RIGHT. WE CAN SAY, RIGHT. AND I'M JUST GIVING YOU AN ANSWER. LIKE, WE WERE SOMEWHAT INDIFFERENT, UM, BECAUSE THERE WERE OTHER COUNTY AGENCIES THAT TALKED ABOUT, OH, WELL, IF WE HAD THIS APRON AND A HALF, THIS IS WHAT WE WOULD DO IF IT WAS RAILS TO TRAILS, FOR EXAMPLE. OH, YEAH. OH MY GOD. OKAY. SO WE DIDN'T OPEN THAT DOOR. WE JUST THAT'S GREAT. STUCK WITH THE EMS. YES, SIR. UM, SO BACK TO THE WATER, AND I REALIZE THAT THEY'VE SAID THAT WHATEVER GOES DOWN HAS TO PASS THROUGH DEQ, CORRECT? OH, YEAH. YEAH. AND, UM, SINCE 21, I'VE HEARD TWO PERSONAL, UH, ACCOUNTS OF THE DEPLORABLE CONDITION OF THE DRINKING WATER PRO. AND ALL I CAN SAY IS THIS PROJECT ACTUALLY IMPROVES THAT RIGHT NOW. AND, AND YOU KNOW, THEY SAID THAT BEFORE. WELL, IT DIDN'T GET DONE BEFORE. YEAH. SO RIGHT NOW, THE WATERLINE DEADHEAD RIGHT HERE MM-HMM . UM, AND, AND I OWN A UTILITY. I OWN THIS UTILITY COMPANY FROM 2010 TO 2015. SO I CAN GET REAL NERDY ABOUT IT IN TERMS OF DEQ, BUT A DEADHEAD IS THE ABSOLUTE WORST THING WITH A WATER LINE. MM-HMM . BECAUSE IT BUILDS UP AND SEDIMENT AND EVERYTHING ELSE. SO BY MOVING IT THROUGH THIS PROJECT AND SERVING THIS PROJECT AND THEN TAKING IT BACK [01:10:01] CREATES A LOOP. MM-HMM . SO THEREFORE THE DEADHEAD GOES AWAY. SO IF THIS IS WHERE YOU HEARD ABOUT THAT ISSUE, THAT'S PROBABLY WHAT THE, WHAT I UNDERSTAND IS AQUA NOW, UM, DOES FLUSHING OUT OF THE FIRE HYDRANTS MORE FREQUENTLY IN THE DEADHEAD AREAS TO KEEP THAT CHLORINATION AND THINGS LIKE THAT MOVING? WE DON'T CONTROL THAT. AGAIN, THAT'S A PUBLICLY TRADED COMPANY THAT HAS ITS OWN RELATIONSHIP WITH DEQ AND THE STATE CORPORATION COMMISSION. BUT MOVING THIS DEADHEAD OUT AND CREATING THE LOOP HELPS. THAT HASN'T HAPPENED YET FOR OBVIOUS REASONS, BUT IF THIS IS BUILT, THEY WOULD BE COMPELLED TO DO THAT BY THE DEQ OR IT JUST A GOOD IDEA. NO, AQUA AQUA WOULD, THAT'S WHAT AQUA AQUA APPROVES ALL. WHAT HAPPENS IS WE DO ALL THE WORK, WE BRING THE SEWER LINE UP, WE BRING THE WATER LINE UP, WE DESIGN IT, AQUA APPROVES THE DESIGN, THEN AFTER ALL THE WORK IS DONE, AQUA RECEIVES ALL THE CAPITAL ITEMS. SO THEY THEN OPERATE AND MAINTAIN AND EVERYTHING, ALL THE SEWER AND WATER WORK THAT WAS PAID FOR BY THE DEVELOPER UP TO WHAT THE OCCUPANT OWNS. RIGHT. RIGHT AT TO THE PROPERTY LINE. RIGHT. AND EVERY, IN THE SEWERS, THEY ALL, IT'S CALLED A SADDLE. SO BEHIND THE SADDLE IS THE PROPERTY OWNERS IN FRONT OF THE SADDLE BELONGS TO THE UTILITY COMPANY. AND YOU SAY THAT WOULD IMPROVE THE WATER QUALITY? YEAH, BECAUSE THE DEADHEAD WOULD GO AWAY. WE PICK UP WHERE THE WATERLINE CURRENTLY ENDS AND MOVE IT THROUGH THE COMMUNITY AND THEN TAKE IT BACK DOWN TO CAPTAIN'S CORRIDOR, FILTER IT AGAIN, AND, AND TIE IT IN. OKAY. SO IT WOULD BE CONSTANTLY MOVING VERSUS THAT DEADHEAD RIGHT NOW. OKAY. SO I, I GUESS DEADHEADS WERE DONE IN THE SEVENTIES AND THEY NEVER CHANGED IT. OKAY. TWO MORE QUESTIONS. SO, UM, THE LAST 500 FEET, THAT IS CAPTAIN'S QUARTER, HOW ARE THESE 150, UH, RESIDENTS GONNA PAY TO MAINTAIN THAT ROAD? SO THE WAY THAT, UH, REAL ESTATE WALL WORKS IS IF AN EASEMENT HOLDER, IF AN EASEMENT OWNER, THINK OF THIS AS A FARM. IF, IF, IF THIS WAS JUST A FARM AND YOU OWNED A FARM IN THE BACK AND YOU HAD AN EASEMENT THROUGH THE FRONT FARM FOR A DRIVEWAY, YOU HAD THAT EASEMENT. THAT'S WHAT CAPTAIN'S COVE HAS. AND IT'S, YOU HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY AND THE RIGHT TO IMPROVE, MAINTAIN AND EVERYTHING ELSE. IF THE PROPERTY OWNER DOESN'T LIKE THE JOB YOU'RE DOING, THEN IT CAN DO IT. SO RIGHT NOW, CAPTAIN'S COVE HAS BEEN DOING ALL THAT WORK AND IS GOING TO CONTINUE TO DO ALL THAT WORK. 'CAUSE THAT'S HOW THE LAW IS WRITTEN. BUT THIS PROPERTY OWNER AND THE ONE ON THE OTHER SIDE COULD STEP IN AND DO THE WORK THEMSELVES ON THEIR PROPERTY. 'CAUSE THEY OWNED AT THE CENTER MALL. SO HOW DOES THESE 150 40 PEOPLE PAY? DEPENDS ON HOW THEY FEEL. THE PROP, THE, THE EASEMENT IS BEING MAINTAINED. SO THAT'D BE A DETERMINATION OF THE HOA AT SOME POINT? YEAH, I MEAN, IT'S, RIGHT NOW IT'S OUR DETERMINATION. AND THEN IF AS WE HAND IT OFF TO THE POA, THE POA COULD MAKE THAT DECISION, THEY COULD GO TO, THEY'RE ALLOWED TO GO TO CAPTAIN'S COVE AND SAY, HOW DO YOU WANT TO DO THIS? THERE'S 140 HOMES HERE, THERE'S 1400 HOMES IN CAPTAIN'S COVE. DO YOU WANT DO A 90 10 SPLIT AND ALL THAT? BUT UNTIL THAT HAPPENS, THE WAY REAL ESTATE LAW WORKS IS THE PERSON BENEFITING FROM THE EASEMENT MAINTAINS THE EASEMENT. INTERESTING. AND THAT'S JUST HOW IT WORKS. ALSO, THE BENEFICIARY OF THE EASEMENT, WHICH IS CAPTAIN'S CODE, THEY CAN'T DENY ACCESS TO THE PEOPLE THAT OWN THE PROPERTY. THAT'S PROBABLY OBVIOUS. BUT, AND, AND, AND AGAIN, THAT'S WHAT ALL WENT IN FRONT OF JUDGE RELU TO CONFIRM, OR EVERYBODY BROUGHT THEIR LAWYERS AND THEIR PLATS AND STUFF. RIGHT. I GUESS I, I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO SEE, UM, I AQUA GIVE YOU A LETTER STATING THAT THEY CAN SUPPORT 140 TOWNHOUSES AND HAVE THE WATER AND HAVE THE SUPPLY OR YEAH. THAT WAS SUPPLIED TO YOU ALL IN 22 AND IN 24. HOW ABOUT NOW? SURE. I MEAN OKAY, GREAT. JUST ATE IT. . IS THERE ANOTHER PUBLIC HEARING? HONESTLY, THIS, UH, WHERE WE ARE RIGHT NOW, AGAIN, WE'RE JUST, UM, WE'RE JUST BRIEFING YOU ON THIS. WE HAVE NOT EVEN REQUESTED PUBLIC HEARINGS. NO. PUBLIC HEARINGS HAVE BEEN AUTHORIZED BY THE PLANNING COMMISSION. UM, WHEN WE'RE READY, WE ARE GONNA BE ASKING YOU TO AUTHORIZE A PUBLIC HEARING. OKAY. BUT TO DATE, NO PUBLIC HEARING. SO FAR, WHAT'S REQUIRED TO GET TO AN APPROVAL ARE TWO PUBLIC HEARINGS. OKAY. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR STAFF OR THE APPLICANT? I, I DON'T. ANYTHING WE [01:15:01] DIDN'T ADDRESS? I, I KNOW, LIKE I SAID, WE ARE GONNA ADD THE PROFFER ABOUT BRINGING THE ELEVATIONS AND MATERIALS BACK. CHANGE THE TRAILS, DO SOME ADDITIONAL LANGUAGE ON THE NUMBERING OF LOTS AND THINGS LIKE THAT. DO YOU FEEL YEAH. DIMENSIONAL PLAN FOR THAT TOO. DIMENSIONAL PLAN. RIGHT. OKAY. AND THE SEWER, SEWER AND WATER, A LADDER, UH, CAPACITY THEY HAVE NOW AND HOW MUCH THEY HAVE AVAILABLE? THEY, THEY HAVE 500. THEY HAVE 500 HOOKUPS JUST WITH THE EXISTING PLANT. IF YOU GO BACK TO THE AERIAL, THIS ONE? YES. SEE THAT LONG TRIANGLE ON THE RIGHT? MM-HMM . BEHIND THE LOTS, THE FRONT CAPTAIN'S CARTER, WHEN AQUA BOUGHT THE UTILITY COMPANY IN 2015, THEY BOUGHT THAT, WHAT IS IT REALLY A 10 ACRE PARCEL. SO IT'S ALL THE LOTS THAT FRONT ON CAPTAIN CARTER, PLUS THAT TRIANGLE, THAT 10 ACRES ALLOWS FOR THE EXPANSION OF SEWER BE SEWER BEYOND 500. SO THIS IS 140. CEX COVE DOES ABOUT 30 A YEAR. IF THE OTHER FARMS DOWN TOWARDS BRING BACK THE ASK AQUA FOR SEWER, I KNOW IT'S REMOTE, BUT THEY'RE ALLOWED TO UNDER REPAIR. THIS IS THE AREA THEY WOULD EXPAND TO FOR RAPID INFILTRATION PLACES. SO AQUA WANTED TO MAKE SURE THEY COULD SUPPORT THE ENTIRE 5,000 LOTS OF CAPTAIN'S CODE AND EVERYTHING ELSE. IF THAT EVER HAPPENS. RIGHT NOW THERE'S 1500. DO THEY HAVE TO SERVE IT OR YOU JUST HAVE AN AGREEMENT THAT THEY WILL SERVE IT? NO, THEY BOUGHT THAT. OKAY. BUT I MEAN, THIS DEVELOPMENT, YOU SIMPLY HAVE AN MOU OR YOU HAVE SOME SORT OF AGREEMENT OR THEY'VE AGREED THAT YES, WE WILL SERVE THIS PROPERTY BECAUSE THEY OWN A MONOPOLY. THE STATE CORPORATION COMMISSION REQUIRES THEM TO PROVIDE SERVICE TO A, TO A PROPERTY OWNER WHO REQUESTS IT IN THEIR SERVICES. SO THEY HAVE TO DO IT AS LONG AS YOU, WE PAY FOR IT. I UNDERSTAND. THEY HAVE TO OPERATE IT. HOW ABOUT THAT? I UNDERSTAND. WE HAVE TO PAY FOR IT. THEY HAVE TO OPERATE IT. YEAH. YES. IN OTHER WORDS, THAT'S IN THEIR TARIFF WITH THE STATE CORPORATION COMMISSION. AND CLEARLY THE PROPERTY IS GOING TO ASK FOR THE SERVICE. RIGHT. NOT ALL OF CAPTAINS COVE HAS ASKED FOR THAT. NO, BUT I MEAN, THIS PROPERTY, RIGHT. THIS ONE DOES BECAUSE THEY'RE TOWN HOMES AND YOU CAN'T DO SEPTIC. OKAY. BUT OF THE 1400 HOMES IN CAPTAINS COVE, 400 HAVE SEWER AND A THOUSAND HAVE SEPARATE. SO THEY WOULDN'T, THEY COULDN'T REFUSE TO SERVE IT? NO, THEY, THEY'RE TARIFF. 'CAUSE WHEN YOU GET A MONOPOLY, YOU'RE REQUIRED TO OKAY. PROVIDE SERVICE. 'CAUSE IT'S NOT LIKE WE CAN GO TO THE ALTERNATIVE OPTION B. OKAY. 'CAUSE THEY HAVE THE ONLY TARIFF IN NORTHERN AIMA COUNTY. OKAY. MADAM CHAIR, BACK TO THE, UM, SIDEWALKS. COULD THE, I KNOW THE CONCERN IS MAYBE THE PARKING ON THE SIDEWALKS, CAN THAT NOT BE CONTROLLED THROUGH THE HOA THE SLOPE? THE SLOPE COMING OFF IS A PROBLEM WITH THE SIDEWALKS. AND THE HOA IS MADE UP OF PEOPLE LIKE ALL OF US WHO ARE NOT GONNA COME HOME AND TRY TO POLICE THEIR NEIGHBORS AND DO ALL THAT AND EVERYTHING ELSE. SO BY ADDING THE 34 PARKING SPACES, UM, IN ADDITION TO THE TWO PER UNIT THAT IS REQUIRED BY CODE, WE GAVE THEM ACTUALLY LEGITIMATE OFF STREET PARKING SPACES, UM, TO DIRECT PEOPLE AWAY FROM THAT. AND THEN WITH THE SLOPES OF THE DITCH, SO TO SPEAK, THAT KEEPS PEOPLE FROM USING THAT, THOSE AREAS. OKAY. AND IS THAT SLOPE THROUGHOUT THE, IT'S THROUGHOUT THE COMPLEX. THAT'S, WELL, COMING BACK TO THAT SLIDE. SO THERE'S A, THERE'S A CULVERT WHERE THE DRIVEWAY IS, AND THEN THERE'S A DITCH ON EACH SIDE OF THE DRIVEWAY. SO IT'S UP HERE. SO THIS HAS THAT THREE TO ONE SLOPE. IT GOES DOWN TO THE DITCH, AND THEN WHERE THE DRIVEWAY IS, IT'S FLAT WITH THE PIPE AND THEN PAVING OVER THE POWER. SO THAT'S WHY THE SIDEWALK REALLY DOESN'T, USUALLY WHEN YOU SEE A SIDEWALK, YOU ALSO SEE CURB AND GUTTER AND ALL THOSE KINDS OF THINGS. AND THIS PROJECT JUST CAN'T AFFORD SOMETHING LIKE THAT. SO THE WALKING TRAILS WERE WHAT WE PIVOTED TO THE FIRST TIME. THEY SEEM LIKE A GOOD SOLUTION THIS TIME. ALBEIT THE CHANGES YOU ALL RECOMMEND, IS THERE, UH, WILL THERE BE ANY, UH, REGULATIONS ABOUT PARKING BOATS AND THE EXTRA PARKING AREAS AND RVS AND STUFF? USUALLY PO USUALLY POAS DON'T ALLOW THAT. THAT'S WHAT THOSE, UM OKAY. OFFSITE STORAGE FACILITIES ON SHAKE ANDT ROAD OR, YEAH. UM, CAPTAINS COVE ACTUALLY HAS AN AREA FOR THAT ALSO. THINGS LIKE THAT. SO OVERSIZED VEHICLES, USUALLY YOU DON'T SEE THAT. SO DOES, SO DOES THIS ELIMINATE THE DOG PARK? NO, THE DOG PARK'S PART OF CAPTAINS COVE. OKAY. [01:20:01] SO GO, IF YOU GO BACK TO THE AERIAL, UM, OH, I SEE IT. OKAY. YEAH. THE, THE DOG PARK, THAT RECTANGLE THAT USED TO BE THE TRAILER PARK PART OF CAPTAIN'S COVE IS SEVEN ACRES. DOG PARK'S, ABOUT ONE AND A HALF TO TWO ACRES NOW. OKAY. THAT'S, THAT'S ON THE OPPOSITE SIDE OF THIS. YES. DO YOU, DO YOU KNOW WHAT A CAPACITY, UH, AQUIFER IS RUNNING AT RIGHT NOW? NO, BECAUSE, UM, I MEAN, YES, I DO KNOW. UM, ONE OF THE NUANCES IS THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT ASSUMES ALL 1400 HOMES 12 MONTHS A YEAR. WHICH IS OBVIOUSLY NOT CAPTAIN'S COVE BECAUSE OF THE SEASONAL SITUATION AND THINGS LIKE THAT. SO, UM, BUT YEAH, THE, THOSE STATS ARE AVAILABLE. I KNOW WHEN I OWNED THE UTILITY COMPANY, WE ACTUALLY HAD TO BRING IN EXTRA EQUIPMENT DURING THE WINTER BECAUSE WE DIDN'T HAVE ENOUGH EFFLUENT MOVING THROUGH EQUIPMENT TO GET THE EQUIPMENT TO ENGAGE, ESPECIALLY DURING COLD WEATHER AND THINGS LIKE THAT. SO WE HAD TO BRING ACCELERANTS IN DURING THE SUMMER. THERE WAS NO PROBLEM BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, ALL, THERE WERE 300 HOMES AT THAT POINT USING SEWER. NOW THERE'S ABOUT FOUR. OH, THERE'S ONLY 400. YEAH, THERE'S 1400 HOMES, A THOUSAND USED SEPTIC AND 400 USED PUBLIC SEWER. OKAY. THE CLO CLOSER YOU ARE TO THE BAY. OKAY. THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT SAYS YOU HAVE TO USE PUBLIC SEWER. OKAY. MY DAUGHTER LIVES IN A SIMILAR, THEY'RE NOT TOWNHOUSES, THEY'RE HOMES, BUT THERE'S NO PARKING ALLOWED ON THE STREET. AND THERE'S A COMMON PARKING AREA IF YOU NEED IT. RIGHT. SO YOU HAVE TO PARK AT THAT. THAT'S WHERE WE HAD THE DRIVEWAYS, THE GARAGE, AND THEN WE HAVE THE 34 ACCIDENTS. MM-HMM . BUT AS YOU ADDRESSED, IF SOMEBODY HAD PEOPLE VISITING OR WHATEVER, YOU KNOW, THAT'S WHAT WE DO. IT'S NO DIFFERENT THAN THAT. SOME OF THE OTHER COMMENTS FROM CAPTAIN'S COVE, THEY DIDN'T WANT THESE FOLKS USING THE POOL. THAT'S WHY THIS HAS ITS OWN POOL CAP'S. COVE ACTUALLY RESTRICTS THE POOL TO ONLY PEOPLE WHO LIVE THERE. MM-HMM . PEOPLE CAN PAY TO USE THE GOLF COURSE. ANY CONSUMER IN THE REGION CAN DO THAT. ANY CONSUMER IN THE REGION CAN USE THE RESTAURANT. UM, SO, SO THE POOL WAS, WAS AN IMPORTANT ELEMENT TO ADD HERE. 'CAUSE IT KEEPS PEOPLE FROM TRYING TO APPROACH. SO THAT WAS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT CAME UP IN THOSE FOUR REGIONS. THE OTHER QUESTIONS, I GOT A CURIOUS QUESTION. HOW MANY LOTS ARE LEFT TO BE BILLED ON THE CAPTAIN'S COVE? DO YOU KNOW? UH, SO THERE'S 4,800 LOTS PLAID. THERE'S 1400 HOMES BUILT. SO THERE'S 3,400 HOMES LOT. THERE'S 3,400 UNBUILDABLE LOTS. UNBUILDABLE, I'M SORRY, PLATTED. THERE'S 3,400 PLATTED LOTS THAT DO NOT HAVE A HOME ON. OKAY. I WOULD SAY THERE'S PROBABLY 500 THAT ARE UNBILLABLE BECAUSE OF WETLANDS AND MARSH AND THINGS LIKE THAT. UM, AND WE ACTUALLY ARE HAVING A MEETING IN THE MIDDLE OF MAY TO TALK ABOUT SECTIONS 15 THROUGH 18, WHICH HAD THE ROADS CUT IN 40 YEARS AGO. AND THEN JUST NOTHING HAPPENED. UM, COMMUNITIES STRUGGLING WITH A PLACE TO PUT SPOILS FROM THE CANALS. SO THEY WANNA USE SOME OF THAT LAND OVER IN SECTION 15 FOR THAT. ALRIGHT, THANK YOU. ALRIGHT. TO, UH, MOVE ON TO IT DON'T MANNER. ALRIGHT, WE'LL MOVE ON TO REZONING OF 0 0 0 1 8 8 2025. DUNCAN MANOR VILLAGE DEVELOPMENT REZONING FROM BUSINESS AND AG TO VILLAGE DEVELOPMENT AND USE PERMIT. WE'LL JUST GET THE FILE DOWNLOADED HERE IN JUST, SORRY. NO PROBLEM. JUST GIVE US A MOMENT TO GET THE FILE DOWNLOADED AND THEN WE'LL, UM, WE'LL GO AHEAD AND GET STARTED. WHILE WE'RE DOING THAT, I'LL JUST GO AHEAD AND MENTION AGAIN THAT, UM, UH, LEE PAM, A DEPUTY COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR [01:25:01] FOR COMMUNITY AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT. UH, THIS IS THE, UH, WORK SESSION BRIEFING FOR DUNCAN MANOR. UM, UH, MR. CARBAUGH NORE REPRESENTATIVE IS HERE TONIGHT FOR THE, UH, UH, FOR THIS APPLICATION. HE'S ACTUALLY DOWN IN NORTH HAMPTON, UH, REPRESENTING ANOTHER APPLICATION WITH THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS DOWN THERE. SO HE SENDS REQUESTS. UM, WITH THAT BEING SAID, UH, THIS ONE'S GONNA GO MUCH THE SAME. UH, THE, THE REQUEST HERE IS FOR A REZONING AND A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT, UH, UH, FOR, UH, A SIMILAR ARRANGEMENT. HE WANTS TO GO ACTUALLY, UH, HE WANTS TO GO FROM AGRICULTURAL AND BUSINESS TO, UH, TO VILLAGE DEVELOPMENT DISTRICT. UH, GOING THROUGH THE VITAL STATS HERE, THE APPLICANT'S, UH, THE APPLICANT IS THE ATLANTA GROUP AND ASSOCIATES, WHICH IS MR. CARBAUGH. THE PROPERTY OWNER IS THE OSKY GROUP. SO ALL OF THE PROPERTIES CONTAINED IN THE, UH, IN THE SUBJECT AREA IS OWNED BY MR. ODACHOWSKI. THE REQUEST AS IT STANDS NOW, IS TO REZONE A TOTAL OF 55 AND A HALF ACRES FROM BUSINESS AND AGRICULTURE TO VILLAGE DEVELOPMENT. WE WILL TAKE A LOOK AT THE ZONING MAP HERE IN JUST A MINUTE. WITH REGARDS TO THE LOCATION, WE KNOW WHERE IT IS, BUT THE SITE IS COMPRISED OF 35 SEPARATE TAX PARCELS. AND WE HAVE, UH, PROVIDED THAT, UH, LOT AREA TABLE THE PAST COUPLE OF MEETINGS. IT'S IN DISTRICT SEVEN, SO THAT'S SUPERVISOR JACKIE PHILLIPS. AND THE COMMISSIONER IS MR. LYNN GALE ACREAGE, AGAIN, 55 AND A HALF ACRES. THE CURRENT ZONING IS A COMBINATION OF AG AND BUSINESS. THE FUTURE LAND USE RECOMMENDATION IS VILLAGE DEVELOPMENT AREA. AND THAT IS OUR, OUR HIGHER DENSITY, UH, FUTURE LAND USE, UH, UH, DESIGNATION. THERE IS RPA ON PART OF THE SITE. THE ADJACENT ZONING IS THE SAME AS THE, UH, AS THE, UH, UH, EXISTING, UH, IS THE SAME AS THE PROPOSED ZONING AGRICULTURAL BUSINESS. AND THAT SHOULD SAY VILLAGE DEVELOPMENT DISTRICT, NOT VILLAGE DEVELOPMENT AREA, BUT VILLAGE DEVELOPMENT DISTRICT ADJACENT USES, UH, SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL VACANT AG PROPOSED VILLAGE DEVELOPMENT, WHICH IS THE COASTAL SQUARE RESIDENCES. THERE IS A MEDICAL OFFICE AND THERE ARE ALSO SOME PERSONAL SERVICES IN THE VICINITY. THE DEVELOPMENT IS COMPRISED OF AN EAST PART AND A WEST PART, UH, AND THE EAST PART, UH, HAVING 163 UNITS OVER 26.26 ACRES, WHICH YIELDS A DENSITY OR A DWELLING YEAH, DENSITY OF 6.2 DWELLING UNITS PER ACRE WEST, UH, THE WEST PART, 61 UNITS, UH, OVER 29 POINT, UH, ONE NINE ACRES AND 2.09 DWELLING UNITS PER ACRE. THE OVERALL IS 4.04 DWELLING UNITS PER ACRE. AND, UH, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I'LL GO AHEAD AND POINT OUT NOW WITHOUT GETTING INTO THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN IS THAT THE, THAT, UM, UH, THAT 4.04 ALIGNS WITH THE INTENT OF HIGHER DENSITY PER THE, UH, VILLAGE DEVELOPMENT AREA. AND, UH, AS I HAD MENTIONED IN THE, UH, IN THE STAFF REPORT, UH, THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN RECOMMENDS, UH, FOUR ACRES PER UNIT, 4.04, VERY MUCH IN ALIGNMENT. SO WE GO BACK TO THE, UM, UH, TO THE, UH, UH, CHART, UH, OH, WE'RE ALREADY THERE, . OKAY. THANK YOU. UM, LET'S, UH, GO DOWN TO THE BACKGROUND JUST A LITTLE BIT, AND THEN WE'LL TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE, UH, THE NUMBER OF UNITS. SO GO BACK DOWN ONE TO THE NEXT PAGE. LEE, CAN I ASK YOU A QUESTION WHILE YOU'RE GOING THROUGH THAT? SURE. HAS ANYBODY, UH, GIVEN ANY THOUGHT OF WHO'S GOING TO BUY ALL THESE UNITS? YOU'RE TALKING 600 AND SOME WHEN YOU INCLUDE FAIRGROUNDS ROAD, AND WE'RE THE JOBS. OKAY. SO WE'LL, WE'LL PUT A BOOKMARK IN THAT, BECAUSE THAT IS A VERY, THAT IS A VERY BIG QUESTION THAT, UH, THAT, UH, REALLY DEPENDS ON THE MARKETING, YOU KNOW, SO ARE THESE SECOND HOMES, OR IS IT, AGAIN, A VERY BIG QUESTION. OH, OKAY. I'M JUST, SO IF WE CAN HERE, SO I JUST WANT TO GET INTO THE, UM, JUST WANNA GET INTO THE, UH, HOUSING PRODUCT, UH, LIST HERE OF WHICH THEY'RE, THEY'RE RIGHT. THEY'RE PROPOSING TWO DIFFERENT KINDS OF, UH, HOUSING PRODUCTS. UH, 140, UH, TOWNHOUSES, WHICH ARE REALLY, UH, MORE LIKE CONDOS. SO THOSE, UH, THOSE ARE LIKE CONDOS. 140 CONDOS. UH, ONE STORY [01:30:01] OVER, ONE STORY, AND THEN 84 SINGLE FAMILY DWELLINGS. SO LET'S GO AHEAD AND GO DOWN TO THE, UH, UM, TO THE, UH, UH, THE MAPS. OKAY. THIS IS AN AERIAL OF THE SITE, AGAIN, TWO PARTS TO THIS. THE, THE WEST PART, WHICH IS THE FORMER AIRFIELD SITE, AND THEN THE EAST PART, WHICH IS MOSTLY THESE LARGER RECTANGULAR, UH, UH, PIECES OF PROPERTY. UH, THE INTENT BEHIND THAT LAYOUT ISN'T REALLY KNOWN. MAYBE THEY WERE, MAYBE THEY WERE SUGGESTED FOR SINGLE FAMILY DWELLING, BUT IN ANY CASE, THIS IS GOING TO BE THE SITE FOR THE AMENITIES AND THE, UH, FOR THE COMMUNITY AMENITIES. AND FOR THE, UH, UH, ONE OVER ONES, I THINK THAT THERE ARE ALSO A FEW SINGLE FAMILY DWELLINGS ON THIS EASTERN PART. NEXT, UH, OKAY. AND THIS IS THE ZONING MAP. SO WHEN I HAD MENTIONED A MIX AND EXISTING MIX OF AGRICULTURE AND, AND, UH, AND COMMERCIAL OR BUSINESS RATHER, THE WHITE IS AGRICULTURE AND ALONG MARKET STREET, UH, IS, UH, THE, AND ALONG THE PORTION OF A FAIRGROUNDS ROAD, UH, THIS PINK COLOR, THIS RED COLOR IS, UH, IS THE BUSINESS ZONING. SO THAT IS THE EXISTING ZONING. THIS IS THE FUTURE LAND USE MAP. AND AS YOU CAN SEE, THE ENTIRE AREA IS DESIGNATED FOR HIGHER DENSITY. AND THE REASON WHY THAT WAS DONE BACK IN 2018 AND BEFORE IS BECAUSE OF THE EXISTENCE OF, UH, OF, UM, UH, UH, SUBSTANTIAL ROAD NETWORK AS WELL AS WATER AND SEWER. SO WATER AND SEWER ARE AVAILABLE IN THE AREA. I HAD ALSO MENTIONED SOME RPA AND, UH, YOU'LL SEE IN THE LAYOUT THAT THE RPA IS PRIMARILY, UH, DESIGNATED FOR, UM, FOR, UH, UH, FOR BUFFERING. AND THEN THERE IS ALSO A, UH, AS WITH COASTAL SQUARE IN RESIDENCES, THERE IS A, UH, UM, UH, THIS MAP IS, IS OUTDATED WHERE, UH, THE RPA SHOULD ACTUALLY BE SMALLER THAN IT IS. THIS IS A SOILS MAP. AND I WILL GO AHEAD AND GET INTO THE, UH, LET ME, LET ME GO TO THE, UH, TO THE LAYOUT. SO JUST TO REFRESH EVERYBODY'S MEMORY ON LAYOUT ON THE WESTERN PART, YOU'VE GOT, UM, UH, ALL SINGLE FAMILY DWELLINGS ON 60 FOOT WIDE LOTS AT THE INTERSECTION OF FAIRGROUNDS. AND MARKET IS A COMMERCIAL PAD, AND THEN AT THE INTERSECTION OF MARKET. AND DUNCAN MANOR DRIVE IS ANOTHER SMALLER COMMERCIAL PAD ON THE EASTERN PART. YOU'VE GOT SOME OTHER SINGLE FAMILY DWELLINGS BEHIND EXISTING SINGLE FAMILY DWELLINGS. AND THEN, UH, THIS, UH, PIECE RIGHT HERE IS THE, UH, ARE THE AMENITIES. IT'S A CO, IT'S A COMMUNITY CENTER AND A POOL. AND THEN YOU HAVE THE 141 OVER ONE TOWN, UH, ONE OVER ONE, UH, CONDOMINIUMS HERE. THIS IS THEIR PHASING PLAN. AND NOW WE START TO GET INTO THE LAYOUT A LITTLE BIT. UM, THE DEVELOPMENT CURRENT, OR THE DEVELOPMENT AS PROPOSED FEATURES, TWO ACCESS POINTS. UH, THEY'RE BOTH OFF OF MARKET STREET. THERE'S THE EXISTING DUNCAN MANOR DRIVE, UH, ACCESS POINT, WHICH WILL CONTINUE TO BE AN ACCESS POINT. AND THEN, UH, FURTHER IN, CLOSER TOWARDS, UH, TOWARDS THE INTERSECTION OF FAIRGROUNDS AND MARKET IS ANOTHER ACCESS POINT THAT DOES NOT CURRENTLY EXIST. I A IS V NOT GONNA REQUIRE 'EM TO HAVE A TURN OFF AT EITHER ONE OF THOSE, OR IS IT JUST EXISTING IS OKAY. SO I'M JUST, JUST CURIOUS. RIGHT. SO, SO VDO T'S COMMENTS ON THE, ON THE TRAFFIC, UH, ON THE TRAFFIC ANALYSIS OR THE, UH, YEAH, THE TRAFFIC ANALYSIS IS THAT IT STILL NEEDS MORE WORK. SO IF YOUR QUESTION IS ARE THEY GOING TO NEED, UM, UH, TURNING LANES, THAT'S GONNA BE A VDOT DETERMINATION. [01:35:01] I KNOW. I DIDN'T KNOW IF THERE WAS ANY, THEY'VE SIMPLY COMMENTED THAT THERE NEEDS NO, NEEDS TO BE MORE WORK. THEY DID NOT MAKE SPECIFIC COMMENTS ON, UH, ON, UH, ON IMPROVEMENTS AT THIS STAGE. OKAY. LET'S SEE. SORRY TO INTERRUPT YOUR FAULT. NO, THAT'S OKAY. YOU'RE, YOU'RE GOOD. YOU'RE GOOD. GO BACK TO THE, UH, OH. SO, UH, THIS, UH, THIS GRAY AREA, THESE GRAY AREAS HERE, THE DARKER GRAY AREAS, IT APPEARS TO BE TWO SHADES OF GRAY HERE, BUT THE DARKER AREAS ARE EXISTING EXISTING HOMES. HMM. SO WHAT YOU'RE SEEING IS HOW, UH, UH, THESE LOTS RIGHT HERE WERE REVIEWED BY THE PLANNING COMMISSION FOR PRELIMINARY PLAT. UH, BASICALLY WHAT, UH, MR. CARBAUGH DID WAS TOOK EXISTING VERY NARROW EXISTING LOTS, ADJUSTED THE LOT LINES REDUCED TO THE NUMBER OF LOTS, UH, ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF DUNCAN MANOR, AND THEN ADDED A CUL-DE-SAC AT THE END. UM, AS FAR AS THE, UH, AS FAR AS THE, UH, UM, CONDO PARKING GOES, AGAIN, 200 AND SO FOR 140 UNITS, WHICH IS JUST, UH, IT'S, UH, IT'S, UM, COINCIDENTAL THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT 140 CONDOS WHEN WE WERE JUST TALKING ABOUT 140 TOWNHOUSES. BUT THE SAME, BUT THE SAME PARKING REQUIREMENTS ARE, ARE IN PLACE WHERE TWO SPACES PER, UH, TWO SPACES PER UNIT IS REQUIRED, UH, FOR A TOTAL OF 280 SPACES, UH, BEING REQUIRED. BUT HE HAS ACTUALLY PROVIDED 336 SPACES. YOU CAN SEE HERE THIS STREAM WHERE THE RPA WAS OR WHERE THE RPA IS. AND THIS OUTLINE HERE DEPICTS THE AREA THAT CANNOT BE BUILT UPON. SO YOU SEE THIS DASH LINE HERE, OF COURSE, THAT'S ON THE COASTAL SQUARE SIDE, AND THEN ON THE SOUTHERN SIDE, HE CONTINUES THAT DASH LINE ON THE SOUTHERN SIDE. UM, 100 FEET ON EITHER SIDE OF THE STREAM, , WE'LL GET INTO IT IN JUST A MINUTE. BUT THESE FOUR LOTS HERE, UH, REQUIRE A, UM, UH, UH, UH, REQUIRE A WAIVER FOR THE, UH, FOR THE CORNER LOT REQUIREMENTS. THIS RIGHT HERE IS THE OPEN SPACE EXHIBIT. SO, UH, MADAM CHAIR, TO YOUR QUESTION ON THE LAST, UH, ON THE LAST, UH, UH, DEVELOPMENT MARINER FARM, UH, WE DO HAVE AN OPEN SPACE EXHIBIT FOR THIS PROP FOR THIS PROPOSAL. AND, UM, AND THE, IT'S ABOUT A 40, 40.5%, UH, OPEN SPACE ACROSS THE ENTIRE, UH, ACROSS THE ENTIRE DEVELOPMENT. THESE ARE THE REPRESENTATIVE ONE OVER ONES. YEAH. TO YOUR QUESTION ABOUT, UH, ARCHITECTURAL, UH, RENDERINGS. AND THEN WE GET INTO THE, UH, WE GET INTO THE, UM, UH, UH, THE FLOOR PLANS A LITTLE BIT. SO LET ME GO BACK TO THE, UH, TO THE WAIVER REQUEST MATRIX AND SAY THAT THIS CASE IS GONNA BE A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT THAN THE LAST ONE, IN THAT THEY ARE NOT, THEY HAVEN'T, UH, THEY HAVEN'T SUBMITTED ANY PROFFERS, AND WE CANNOT, UH, WE CANNOT COMPEL THEM TO SUBMIT PROFFERS. AS WE ALL KNOW, PROFFERS IN THE COMMONWEALTH OF VIRGINIA ARE ENTIRELY VOLUNTARY. AND, UM, AND WE DON'T HAVE, HOWEVER, HE IS REQUESTING SEVERAL, UM, UH, SEVERAL WAIVERS. HE'S REQUESTING, UH, FIVE OF THEM. AND, UH, THE FIRST ONE IS THE VILLAGE DEVELOPMENT PROJECT SIZE. THERE IS A MAXIMUM OF 40 ACRES WHERE HE IS REQUESTING 55 AND A HALF. HE IS REQUESTING A, UH, UH, 25 FOOT FRONT YARD, UH, SETBACK, EIGHT YARD SIDE YARD SETBACK. AND HE WANTS TO ELIMINATE THE AGRICULTURAL, THE 200 FOOT, UH, AGRICULTURAL SETBACK. SO IN THE, UM, IN THE ORDINANCE, HE'S REQUIRED TO, UH, ANY, ANY RESIDENTIAL STRUCTURES ARE REQUIRED TO BE 200 FEET AWAY FROM ANY AGRICULTURALLY ZONED PROPERTY. CAN YOU SHOW ME WHERE THAT WOULD BE ON THE MAP WHEN YOU GET DONE? YES, SIR. HE IS REQUIRED TO HAVE 150 FOOT WIDTH AT THE SETBACK LINE FOR CORNER LOTS, AND HE'S REQUESTING A REDUCTION DOWN TO 95 FEET FOR THAT. SO NOW WE'RE GONNA GO BACK TO THE, UM, TO THE, UH, [01:40:01] UH, TO THE ZONING MAP. AND YOUR QUESTIONED, UH, MR. TYLER WAS TO, UH, UH, WELL, WHERE'S THE AG ZONED PROPERTY? AND THEN TO WHAT EXTENT WOULD A 200 FOOT, UH, SETBACK BE IMPOSED? SO I'M JUST GONNA GO AHEAD AND USE THIS LINE RIGHT HERE. WE'LL GO BACK TO THE, WE'LL GO BACK TO THE LAYOUT AND USE THIS LINE AS OUR IMAGINARY, UH, NOT SO IMAGINARY LINE DEMARCATION BETWEEN THE AG AND THE BUSINESS. OKAY. SO LET'S GO TO THE, UH, WE'LL GO TO THE, UM, UH, DEVELOPMENT HERE, OR RATHER TO THE, UH, TO THE LAYOUT HERE. AND AGAIN, THAT BUSINESS DISTRICT LINE BASICALLY FOLLOWS ALONG HERE. OKAY. AND THEN THE REST OF IT IS GONNA BE AG. SO IF THIS PORTION OF THE, IF THIS PORTION OF THE AREA REMAINS AG, THEN HE WOULD HAVE TO BE, THEN ANY HOUSES WOULD HAVE TO BE 200 FEET, 200 FEET OFF OF, UH, THESE LINES HERE. HIS RATIONALE FOR THE REQUEST IS THAT THERE IS NO AGRICULTURAL ACTIVITY OCCURRING OUT HERE THAT WAS THE SAME, UH, THAT WAS THE SAME REQUEST AND THE SAME, UH, AND THE SAME RATIONALE FOR COASTAL SQUARE AND RESIDENCES WITH REGARDS TO, UH, THIS AGRICULTURALLY ZONED PROPERTY. AND THERE MIGHT HAVE BEEN SOME AG ZONED PROPERTY ACROSS FROM, UH, UH, FAIRGROUNDS ROAD FROM COASTAL SQUARE AND RESIDENCES. BUT TO YOUR QUESTION, SIR, THIS RIGHT HERE, UM, WOULD REMAIN AG SHOULD THE, SHOULD THESE SITES BE REZONED TO, UH, VILLAGE DEVELOPMENT. AND THEN OFF OF THAT WOULD BE, WOULD BE A 200 FOOT SETBACK WITHIN WHICH NO RESIDENTIAL STRUCTURES COULD BE BUILT. OKAY. SO WHAT, UH, WHAT DID WE DO ON COASTAL SQUARES? I DON'T THINK IT WAS ZERO. IT WAS ELIMINATED. OH, YES, SIR. YES, MA'AM. OKAY. SO THE OTHER SETBACKS, CAN YOU SHOW ME WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT WITH THOSE OTHER SETBACKS? THAT OKAY. REDUCING THE, UH, UH, 30 FOOT TO DOWN TO 25 FEET. THOSE ON THE CONDOS, OR ARE THOSE ON THE HOUSES? THESE WOULD BE ON THE HOUSES BECAUSE THE CONDOS ARE NOT ON, ON INDIVIDUAL LOTS. GOTCHA. OKAY. AND THEN THE SIDE YARD SETBACK, UH, REDUCING DOWN TO, UH, TO EIGHT FEET AG, GOING FROM 200 TO ZERO, AND THEN THE CORNER LOTS, THAT'S NOT A SETBACK, THAT'S A LOT WITH, UH, REQUEST. SO THE SIDE YARDS IN BETWEEN THE HOUSES, EACH HOMEOWNER WOULD HAVE 10, WOULD WOULD HAVE EIGHT FEET, THERE WOULD BE 16 FEET BETWEEN THOSE HOUSES. OKAY. GETTING BACK TO THIS RENDERING HERE, FROM A STORMWATER STANDPOINT, HE'S FEATURING 1, 2, 3, 4 PONDS. AND, UM, UH, THIS IS HIS PHASING PLAN. WE, UH, UH, THE OTHER DEPUTY COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR, MR. STEWART HALL COUNTY PLANNER, ASHANTI, RIDLEY, AND I HAD A CONVERSATION WITH, UH, WITH, UH, MR. CARBAUGH ABOUT A WEEK AND A HALF AGO IN WHICH HE SAID THAT, UH, IT WOULD BE THE SINGLE FAMILY DWELLINGS THAT WOULD BE, THAT WOULD PROBABLY BE PRIORITIZED JUST BECAUSE THEY WOULD SELL BETTER. EXCUSE ME. UM, WHY IS THERE A 40 ACRE CAP ON THE VILLAGE DEVELOPMENT? I CAN ANSWER THAT ONE, BECAUSE WHEN WE DID, UH, WHAT WAS IT, UH, PUDS, MR. CARBOL CAME AND HAD THIS PUD IT WAS 250 ACRES. IT WAS JUST TOO BIG FOR US TO MANAGE. AND WHEN WE MADE THIS, WE SAID, OH, 40 ACRES, THAT'S PRETTY MANAGEABLE. AND ANYTHING OUTSIDE OF A, UH, A CITY OR A TOWN, YOU REALLY DIDN'T HAVE MUCH. YOU WOULD HAVE TO HAVE A LOT OF ACRES. SO WE, WE JUST DECIDED ON THE PORT. WERE YOU IN, YOU WERE IN HERE WHEN WE MM-HMM . PROBABLY . IT WAS, IT WAS WHAT WE THOUGHT WE COULD MANAGE MM-HMM . IS, IS THAT IN THE, TO THE ORDINANCE? YEAH, IT'S IN THE ORDINANCE. MM-HMM . IT'S WRITTEN INTO THE ORDINANCE, BUT, AND WHAT'S ALSO WRITTEN INTO THE ORDINANCE IS A WAIVER PROCESS. YES. [01:45:01] OKAY. ONCE AGAIN, I'M GONNA GO BACK. I GREW UP IN LEVITTOWN, PENNSYLVANIA, BLUE COLLAR AMERICA, BUCKS COUNTY. THERE WAS THOUSANDS OF HOMES, BUT THEY WERE BUILT FOR A SPECIFIC NEED. THE S WORKS, WHICH WAS THIS HUGE STEEL PLANE, EMPLOYED THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE. AND IT WAS WITHIN 20 MILES OF PHILADELPHIA, WHICH HAD A LARGE INDUSTRIAL BASE AS WELL. SO THERE WAS A, THE HOUSING ONE FIT A SPECIFIC NEED. WE'RE DISCUSSING HOUSING HERE, YOU KNOW, HUNDREDS OF UNITS. WHEN YOU COMBINE FAIRGROUNDS, ROAD UNITS RIGHT. IN A C**K AREA, WHAT'S, WHAT'S THE DRAW? WHAT, WHAT ARE THESE PEOPLE GOING TO DO? I MEAN, UH, AND IT WOULD HAVE, IT WOULD IMPACT HOW, UH, YOU KNOW, HOW THEY'RE MARKETED. ARE THEY, SECOND HOMES ARE, I MEAN, THERE'S NO BIG INDUSTRY. THERE IS A MILITARY BASE, BUT IN ACK COUNTY, TWO CHICKEN PLANTS IN THE GOVERNMENT. OKAY. NOW, YOU KNOW, UH, WE JUST HAD GENTLEMAN HERE EARLIER, AND HE'S PUTTING UP A COUPLE HUNDRED OVER IN CAPTAIN'S COVE. AND THE MILITARY DID ASK FOR THAT. I WAS AT THE MEETING. AND SO, ARE EVERYBODY HERE? MOST EVERYBODY HERE, BUT WHERE'S THE NEED FOR THIS HOUSING? WHAT IT'S GOING TO CHANGE? NOT ONLY WILL IT CHANGE THE NATURE OF THE COMMUNITY, BUT ALSO THESE PEOPLE, UH, THE REST OF THE COMMUNITY COULD BE ON THE HOOK FOR ADDITIONAL POLICE, FIRE, MAYBE SCHOOLS, YOU KNOW, THIS, UH, MR. WACHOWSKI IS, YOU KNOW, HE SELLS HIS, HE SELLS HIS LAND AND HE LEAVES, BUT, YOU KNOW, THE RESIDENTS COULD BE ON THE HOOK FOR ALL THAT ADDITIONAL SEWER PLAN AND ALL THIS. SO, SO WE, WE GENERALLY, UH, RELY ON TWO MAJOR DOCUMENTS TO, UH, TO, TO JUSTIFY ADDITIONAL HOUSING. NUMBER ONE IS THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, WHICH SINCE ITS ORIGINAL INCEPTION, IS TALKED ABOUT A LACK OF HOUSING IN ACADEMIC. OKAY. NUMBER TWO IS GOING TO BE THE 2022 A-N-P-D-C HOUSING STUDY, WHICH, WHICH, YOU KNOW, BACK IN, IN 22, UH, CITES A 1000 UNIT SHORTAGE HERE ON, ON THE EASTERN SHORE. OKAY. THAT'S TWO COUNTIES THOUGH, RIGHT? NO, THAT WAS EACH INDIVIDUAL COUNTY THAT WAS AIMA, AIMA A THOUSAND IN NORTH HAMPTON COUNTY. OKAY. OKAY. I WASN'T AWARE OF THAT. OKAY. IT'S, AND, UM, AND WE DID PUT THAT IN THE REPORT, CITING, CITING THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN JUSTIFICATION FOR ADDITIONAL HOUSING AS WELL AS THE A-N-P-D-C STUDY. WHAT I CAN TELL YOU JUST ANECDOTALLY, IN MY OTHER ROLE AS AN ECONOMIC DEVELOPER AND FIELDING ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT PROSPECTS, MOST RECENTLY, UH, ACTUALLY LAST WEEK, THE, BEFORE THE ONLY, THE ONLY WHERE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT WAS FOCUSED, BOTH FROM A PROSPECT STANDPOINT COMING INTO A COMMUNITY AND FROM A COMMUNITY RESPONDING TO THOSE PROSPECTS, IS, IS THERE ENOUGH? YOU KNOW, DO WE HAVE ENOUGH POWER CAPABILITY? DO WE HAVE THE ROAD NETWORK? DO WE HAVE THE, DO WE HAVE THE UTILITIES? WE HAVE HAD, BUT ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT IS, IS NOW ABOUT THOSE THINGS, BUT ALSO ABOUT, UH, ALSO ABOUT QUALITY OF LIFE ISSUES, SPOUSAL EMPLOYMENT, QUALITY OF THE SCHOOLS, QUALITY OF THE HEALTHCARE, UH, UM, UNDERSTOOD THAT, UNDERSTAND AND, AND HOUSING AND, UH, AND THOSE KINDS OF THINGS. CHILDCARE IS ALSO, IS, IS ALSO A MAJOR ONE. SO, LIKE I SAID, THAT'S MORE ANECDOTAL THAN ANYTHING ELSE. BUT I CAN TELL YOU FROM, FROM EXPERIENCE JUST BEING HERE, UH, IN, IN FIELDING MULTIPLE DEVELOPMENT, UH, MULTIPLE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT INQUIRIES, UH, THE INFRASTRUCTURE ELEMENTS THAT ARE, THAT THEY TYPICALLY ASK FOR ARE OBVIOUS. YOU EITHER HAVE THE POWER OR YOU DON'T HAVE THE, OR YOU EITHER HAVE THE ELECTRICITY OR YOU DON'T HAVE THE ELECTRICITY. YOU EITHER HAVE THE WATER AND SEWER, OR YOU DON'T HAVE THE WATER AND SEWER. THOSE ARE, THOSE ARE YES OR NO QUESTIONS. UH, OTHER YES OR NO QUESTIONS THAT KIND OF FACTOR INTO THAT, TO YOUR POINT OF WHO'S GONNA BUY THESE AND LIVE IN THEM, IS, UH, IS THE, UH, IS THE HOUSING ASPECT. WELL, WE HEAR FROM NASA, WE HEAR FROM THE NAVY AND THE COAST GUARD, AND FROM THE HOSPITAL, JUST TO NAME FOUR, [01:50:01] UH, WHERE FOLKS ARE COMMUTING FROM OUTSIDE OF VIRGINIA, NAMELY MARYLAND. OKAY. AND POSSIBLY DELAWARE, BUT MOSTLY IN NORTHERN AKAMAK WHERE WE GET A LOT OF THOSE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT INQUIRIES. MM-HMM. UH, UH, DO PEOPLE REALLY WANT TO COMMUTE 45 MINUTES TO AN HOUR, TO MAYBE EVEN AN HOUR AND A HALF COMING FROM DELAWARE TO GET TO WORK AT, AT OPS, OR TO GET TO WORK, UM, AT THE HOSPITAL? SO THOSE ARE QUESTIONS THAT WE HAVE TO ANSWER. ONE OF THE, AND, AND ONE OF THE RESPONSES IS, WELL, WE HAVE THESE, WE HAVE THESE DEVELOPERS WHO ARE TRYING TO BRING THESE DEVELOPMENTS TO, UH, TO PASS HERE IN ACK. UM, UH, VEDP ASKS US WHEN WE ARE APPLYING FOR GRANTS OR WHEN, UH, WELL, WHEN WE'RE APPLYING FOR GRANTS, ESPECIALLY, UH, UM, FOR HOUSING, WHERE ARE THE JOB CENTERS AND HOW FAR ARE THEY AWAY FROM, FROM THE PROPOSED DEVELOPMENT THAT IS THE SUBJECT OF THE GRANT APPLICATION. SO, UH, YOU KNOW, THOSE ARE ANECDOTAL ANSWERS, BUT THEY'RE REAL ANSWERS. JUST, UH, JUST BASED OFF OF WHAT I'VE HEARD, JUST BASED OFF OF MY EXPERIENCE HERE IN THE PAST THREE YEARS, WELL, YOU KNOW, UH, UP UNTIL, WELL, TECHNICALLY NEXT MONTH, I'VE BEEN ON THE BOARD OF EASTERN SHORE OF HELL AND THEY CAN'T GET DOCTORS HERE. MM-HMM . AND PART OF IT IS, AS JENNIFER WILL TELL YOU, UH, THAT, UH, IT'S ALL ABOUT THE SPOUSE. I CAN GIVE YOU A JOB. WHAT'S YOUR SPOUSE GOING TO DO? OKAY. THAT WAS THE ORIGINAL, THAT'S BEEN A HISTORIC PROBLEM, EVEN WHEN THE HOSPITAL WAS IN NASSAU. I MEAN, YES. WE'VE ALWAYS HAD THAT PROBLEM. YES. AND, AND IT TO ME, SEEMS LIKE THERE'D BE A LOT OF RETIREES MAYBE COMING HERE. AND BECAUSE, AND I'M SURE WE'LL GET INTO THIS WHEN WE DO THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, REDO, BUT YOU KNOW, IF WE THINK ABOUT 20 YEARS FROM NOW, I MEAN, I'VE BEEN HERE, I'VE BEEN HOME 20 YEARS MM-HMM. AND IN THAT 20 YEARS, PURDUE HAS REDUCED THEIR WORKFORCE BY SOME 500 PEOPLE. AND I WILL TELL YOU, IF YOU LOOK AT THE PUBLIC DOCUMENTS OF TYSON FOODS, THEY'RE SPENDING SEVERAL BILLION A YEAR TO UPGRADE THEIR PLANTS. AND THE REASON THEY'RE DOING THAT, PURDUE AND TYSON, COSTCO SELLS SO MUCH CHICKEN THAT THEY BUILT THEIR OWN CHICKEN PLANT, , I'M NOT KIDDING YOU IN, IN, IN IOWA OR IDAHO, I CAN'T REMEMBER. YEAH. IT IS SLIGHTLY LARGER THAN THE PURDUE PLANT THAT WE HAVE. MM-HMM . IT PRODUCES ABOUT 700,000 MORE POUNDS OF MEAT PER WEEK THAN THIS ONE DOES. AND IT HAS LESS THAN 500 EMPLOYEES. THAT PLANT IS GOING THAT WAY. IT WON'T HAPPEN NEXT WEEK. IT WON'T HAPPEN NEXT YEAR, BUT OVER THE NEXT 10, 15, 20 YEARS, THOSE TWO CHICKEN PLANTS WILL NOT HAVE MORE THAN 500 PEOPLE WORKING OUT. IT IS JUST AMAZING. YEAH. WHAT THEY'RE DOING IN AUTOMATING, IN AUTOMATING THOSE PLANTS. AND THEY'RE NOT, THEY'RE NOT, THEY'RE NOT FIRING PEOPLE. THEY'RE JUST NOT HIRING THE PEOPLE. BUT, SO ERIC, GROWTH DRIVER IS GOING TO BE RETIREMENT VILLAGE, RETIREMENT PEOPLE. OKAY. SPACEPORT, NASA, AND THE NAVY. THAT THOSE, THOSE ARE WHAT WE'VE GOT IN THE NEXT 30 YEARS. AND THAT'S, THAT'S IF, IF NASA GETS THEIR BUDGET, I MEAN, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE, THEY'VE GOT A BIG FIGHT RIGHT NOW OVER THE BUDGET FOR, FOR NASA AND, AND, YOU KNOW, SO WHAT WE'RE BETTING ON ARE RETIREES PEOPLE. YEAH. WELL, THAT'S WHERE I WAS GOING. BUT GET TO, TO THAT POINT, TO THAT POINT THOUGH, IF I COULD JUST BREAK IN FOR A SECOND, UH, NASA IS ONE THING, BUT VIRGINIA SPACE IS THE ONE THAT'S ACTUALLY BRINGING THE COMPANIES HERE. YEAH. 'CAUSE THEY WANNA LAUNCH FROM MARS. YEAH. SO, UH, SO A LOT OF OUR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT PROSPECTS AREN'T ACTUALLY COMING FROM NASA. THEY'RE COMING FROM VEDP AND VIRGINIA SPACE. WELL, THAT'S, WE ALL JUST HA WE ALL JUST WENT THROUGH A REZONING OF 370 ACRES OUT AT THE DARBY FARM. YES. WHICH IS INTENDED TO, UH, NUMBER ONE, PROTECT THAT, PROTECT THAT AREA, AND THAT HAZARD ARC FROM RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT WHILE PROVIDING AN OPPORTUNITY FOR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT SO THAT WE CAN HAVE OTHER COMPANIES LIKE ROCKET LAB, FIREFLY SPACE CENTER, AUSTRALIA, WHICH IS ONE THAT ISN'T REALLY TALKED ABOUT, BUT IS ACTUALLY LOCATED ON, ON THE, UH, ON BASE. BUT THEY'RE EXPANDING. WE'RE, WE'RE, THEY'RE EXPANDING. ROCKET LAB CURRENTLY HAS A PRESENCE OF, I WANNA SAY BETWEEN 50 AND 75 EMPLOYEES, BUT WHEN THEY, WHEN THEY START, UM, WHEN THEY START WORKING ON THE NEUTRON HERE. YEAH. UH, IT HAD BEEN ALWAYS SAID FROM THE VERY BEGINNING OF BRINGING ROCKET LAB HERE THAT THEY WANTED TO HAVE TWO, 250 EMPLOYEES. SO, AND THOSE WERE HIGH PAYING JOBS. THOSE ARE, YES. RIGHT. AND, AND YOU HAVE A RANGE OF JOB. YOU HAVE A RANGE OF [01:55:01] SALARIES WITHIN THESE COMPANIES. EVERYONE FROM JANITORS ALL THE WAY UP TO THE ADMINISTRATORS, PROJECT MANAGERS AND TECHNICIANS. AND YOU ALSO TO YOUR BRINGING A LOT OF PEOPLE FROM OUTSIDE TO, SO, SO TO YOUR POINT, MR. SPARKMAN ABOUT THE OLD STYLE COMPANY, TOWNS OF, WELL, A COMPANY COMES IN, A STEEL MILL COMES IN, AND WE'RE GONNA PROVIDE HOUSING FOR OUR, FOR OUR WORKERS. YEAH. IT'S, UM, IT'S A, IT'S, IT'S AN OUTDATED MODEL BECAUSE WE JUST DON'T HAVE THOSE COMPANIES ANYMORE. BUT THE, BUT THE, UH, UH, UH, THE NEED TO PROVIDE HOUSING FOR WORKERS IS ALWAYS GOING TO BE, UH, IS ALWAYS GONNA BE AN ISSUE, HENCE THE NEED FOR THESE DEVELOPMENTS. SO, AND, AND THEN ON THE, ON THE OTHER END, BESIDES ALL OF THAT, IF IT'S IN THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, THAT HIGHER DENSITY IS APPROPRIATE FOR THIS AREA, AND IF DEVELOPERS ARE WILLING TO ESSENTIALLY, UM, TAKE THE RISK, TAKE THE RISK IF YOU WANT TO, IF YOU WANT TO, UM, IF YOU WANT TO USE THOSE TERMS, UH, THEY ARE, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE PROPERTY OWNERS, THEY'RE DEVELOPERS AND PRIVATE PROPERTY AND DEVELOPERS HAVE THE RIGHT TO DEVELOP AS LONG AS THEY COMPLY WITH THE, YOU KNOW, WITH THE ORDINANCES. AND AS LONG AS THEY CAN GET THE, IF THEY'RE REQUIRED TO GET REZONINGS AND CONDITIONAL USE PERMITS, AND AS LONG AS THEY GET THOSE, THEN THAT IS ACTUALLY THEIR RISK TO TAKE MM-HMM . AND ALSO, I MEAN, FROM DURING YEARS OF WORKING IN THE HOSPITAL, THE PEOPLE WHO WORK HERE, IT IS DIFFICULT TO PURCHASE A HOME. THE, THE AMOUNT OF TROUBLE THAT YOU HAVE WITH TRYING TO GET SEPTIC AND TO GET THE WATER SYSTEM YES. TO BUILD A HOME, TO HAVE A PLACE THAT PEOPLE WORK. NOW, I'M TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE HERE NOW, TO HAVE A PLACE THAT PEOPLE WHEN THEY WORK, THAT YOU CAN GO PURCHASE SOMETHING AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT $30,000 FOR A SEPTIC SYSTEM. A SEPTIC SYSTEM, AND THEN YOU DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT IS IT GOING TO PERK. IT IS, IT IS DIFFICULT IN THE WORKING CLASS. I MEAN, EVEN IN THE HOSPITAL AND EVERYWHERE, THE WORKING PEOPLE HERE, NOT THE PEOPLE WHO COME IN WITH THE GREAT JOBS. I'M TALKING ABOUT EVERYBODY THAT WORKS EVERY DAY AND THEY ARE PAYING A HIGH DOLLAR TO GET THE HOMES AND IT'S DIFFICULT. MM-HMM . SO WE ALSO HAVE A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF PEOPLE HERE WHO NEED HOMES, AFFORDABLE HOUSING. IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE YEAH. WELL, BUT THEY ARE ALREADY PAYING. YEAH. AND, AND THEY'RE REALLY HAVING TO SCRAMBLE. MY SON WOULD LIKE TO MOVE BACK HERE MM-HMM . YEAH. AND WE CAN'T FIND A PLACE FOR HIM JUST THAT HE CAN AFFORD. OKAY. SO WHAT, UM, AND, AND I'M NOT, YOU KNOW, I WISH MR. CARBAUGH WAS HERE TO KIND OF EXPLAIN HIS RATIONALE AND, AND, AND WHAT HE'S KIND OF EXPERIENCING ON THE DEVELOPMENT SIDE. BUT, UM, YOU KNOW, WE ARE WORKING WITH OTHER DEVELOPERS, AS WE HAVE MENTIONED BEFORE, UH, UH, COUNTY PLANNER, TICE RIDLEY, UM, UH, PRETTY MUCH LED THE, UH, THE, UH, EFFORTS TO JUST GET THE TWO UNITS IN PARSLEY AS, AS A DEMONSTRATION OF THOSE INNOVATION COTTAGES OF THOSE UNITS. BUT THAT DEVELOPER IS STILL VERY MUCH INTERESTED IN AKIMA COUNTY. BUT TO THE POINT THAT WE'RE ALL TALKING ABOUT HOUSING AND THE NEED FOR HOUSING, I WANT TO TRY TO, UH, PIVOT BACK TO THE REZONING AND THE CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT THAT THE, UH, THAT THE RATIONALE FOR ADDITIONAL HOUSING UNITS IS VERY MUCH FOUND IN THAT 2022 STUDY. AND THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, WHICH HAVE BOTH BEEN CITED IN THE STAFF REPORT. OKAY. SO THEY HAVE THE SEWER CAPACITY AND THE WATER CAPACITY TO SUPPORT ALL THESE UNITS. THE, THE SEWER CAPACITY IS SUBJECT TO AN HRSD ALLOCATION, WHICH A PORTION OF THE, OF THE, UH, HRSD PLANT IN ONANCOCK HAS A, AS A CAPACITY OF 750,000 GALLONS PER DAY. AND OUT OF THAT 750,000 GALLONS, A CERTAIN AMOUNT HAS BEEN ALLOCATED TO THE TOWN OF EXMORE. A CERTAIN AMOUNT HAS BEEN ALLOCATED TO THE TOWN OF MACK TO, UH, TO AN C**K TO, UH, TO VARIOUS LOCALITIES AS I HAD MENTIONED BEFORE THAT WANTED TO OPT INTO THAT. NOW, WHAT THOSE LOCALITIES WOULD NEED IS SOME SORT OF COLLECTION SYSTEM, UH, HERE IN MACK. IF, IF THERE IS A PRIVATE DEVELOPER WHO WANTS TO TAP INTO THAT AND THE ALLOCATION IS AVAILABLE, THEN THEY'RE THE ONES WHO ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR, FOR PROVIDING THAT COLLECTION SYSTEM. AND THEN, AND THEN FIGURING OUT A WAY TO DISCHARGE THAT INTO THE, UH, INTO THE, UH, FORCE MAIN THAT WOULD GO TO THE PLANT. AND TO YOUR POINT, ABSOLUTELY. IT IS DONE AT THEIR EXPENSE. UM, THE, [02:00:01] THE, UH, YOU KNOW, AS FAR AS WATER, UH, THE TOWN OF ONANCOCK IS THE WATER SUPPLIER. AND WE ALL KNOW THAT HE DID GET A WILL SERVE LETTER FROM THE TOWN OF ONANCOCK FOR COASTAL SQUARE AND RESIDENCES. AND WE ARE STILL, YOU KNOW, WE WERE STILL WAITING FOR, THEY, IT LAST NIGHT. THEY DID MEET LAST NIGHT. THEY DECLINED IT, THEY DEFERRED IT, THEY DEFERRED IT TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION LAST NIGHT. THEY DEFERRED IT TO US. THEY SAID IF, IF, UH, DO THE TOWN PLANNING COMMISSION OR THE COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION, THE COUNTY, I HEARD IT WAS THE TOWN TOWN PLANNING COMMISSION. I HEARD IT WAS THE COUNTY. OKAY. WELL, , I'M, I'M HEARING THAT, I'M ACTUALLY HEARING THAT THIRD HAND THE FIRST TIME THIS MORNING GET NOTES. NO, I, I, BUT I, I KNOW THAT THEY, THEY, THEY DEFERRED HIM AND, AND, AND BASICALLY THEY DENIED HIM ACCESS TO WATER FOR THIS PROJECT, IS MY UNDERSTANDING THAT THEY DID NOT GIVE HIM AN ANSWER LAST NIGHT. THEY DEFERRED HIM. OKAY. WHICH IS ESSENTIALLY WE'RE WAITING FOR, WE'RE GONNA WAIT FOR THEM TO SAY SOMETHING AND THEN MAYBE WE'LL SAY SOMETHING. SO, BUT THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS, IS THAT HE CAN'T BUILD IT WITHOUT WATER. SO IT DOESN'T MATTER. HE CAN'T, HE CAN, HE CAN, HE CANNOT BUILD IT WITHOUT WATER. WHETHER THAT WATER COMES FROM THE TOWN OF ONANCOCK OR WHETHER THAT WATER IS AN ONSITE SOLUTION REMAINS TO BE SEEN. RIGHT. WITH THE NEWSPAPER. DIDN'T THEY JUST HAVE IT, THE EASTERN SHORE POST, SOMETHING ABOUT THE WATER AQUIFER UNDER, UH, THE TWO COUNTIES HERE ON THE EASTERN SHORE IS YEAH, BUT THE, THE, THE, BUT THE POINT IS, IS THAT HE, HE HAS TO HAVE WATER AND SEWER TO BUILD THIS. IT DOESN'T MATTER. YEAH. WHAT, WHAT, AND SO RIGHT NOW THE TOWN IS SAYING THEY'RE WAITING ON US , AND, AND WE'RE WAITING ON THEM. AND, AND SO IT'S BACK AND FORTH. AND SO HIS OTHER SOLUTION IS TO BUILD HIS OWN, ESSENTIALLY HIS OWN WATER, WATER PLAN OR GET SOMEBODY LIKE THE . AND THEN, THEN FOR THAT HE HAS TO GO THROUGH VDH AND HE HAS TO GO THROUGH D-E-Q-D-E-Q, WATER STRONG PERMIT. AND THEY'RE THE ONES THAT DECIDE WHETHER THE AOR CAN TAKE IT OR NOT. YEAH. I MEAN, PURDUE AND TYSONS ARE TAKING, WHAT, 6 MILLION GALLONS A DAY, , SOMETHING LIKE THAT. I DON'T KNOW. THAT WAS ONE OF THE ARGUMENTS. RIGHT. NORTH HAMPTON DOESN'T ALLOW CHICKEN FARM DOES IT? NOPE. NOPE. ALL, LET'S MOVE ON. OKAY. JUST DISCUSSION , UM, THAT, THAT'S PRETTY MUCH THE APPLICATION. WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THE LAYOUT AND WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THE WAIVERS. UH, JUST GO AHEAD AND YOU AND, UH, CLOSE IT OUT HERE. I KNOW THERE HAVE BEEN A LOT OF QUESTIONS ALONG THE WAY, BUT THAT DOES CONCLUDE MY PRESENTATION. OKAY. OKAY. WELL, THIS IS JUST INFORMATIONAL ONLY AND FOR OUR DISCUSSION, RIGHT? YES, SIR. OKAY. WE STILL HAS TO, WE HAVE, WE, WE STILL HAVE TO GO THROUGH PUBLIC HEARINGS AND WHATNOT AS SOON AS THE PUBLIC HEARING COULD HAPPEN. SHOULD THE PLANNING COMMISSION AUTHORIZE ONE IN A COUPLE OF WEEKS IS, UH, WHAT'S NEXT MONTH IS MAY, JUNE . SO I DO HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT WATER AND SEWER. SO DOES HE HAVE A-H-R-S-D ALLOCATION FOR THIS PROJECT, OR DOES HE NEED WATER TO GET THAT ALLOCATION? HE DOES NOT. SO, UH, WATER AND SEWER ARE TWO SEPARATE THINGS, PROVIDED BY TWO SEPARATE PROVIDERS. WATER IS PROVIDED, UH, OR COULD BE PROVIDED BY THE TOWN OF AN C**K OR HIS OWN SOLUTION, HIS OWN ONSITE SOLUTION. AND THEN SEWER IS, UH, IS LIKEWISE, UH, HRSD ALLOCATION OR, UH, OR AN ONSITE SOLUTION. UM, 'CAUSE I HAD MENTIONED THE, THE SEWER PLANT HAS A CAPACITY OF 750,000 GALLONS PER DAY. THE MACK COUNTY'S, UM, MACK COUNTY'S ALLOCATION FOR THAT IS 182,000 AND SOME CHANGE GALLONS PER DAY AT 250 GALLONS PER UNIT. AND, UM, AND, UH, UH, 224 UNITS, I WANT TO SAY THAT'S AROUND, LEMME JUST , I HAD IT WRITTEN DOWN. THAT'S OKAY. DOES, UH, THE COUNTY GIVE HIM THE ALLOCATION OR DOES, UH, HSRD, UH, THE COUNTY WOULD GIVE HIM A PORTION OF THE, UH, OF THE ALLOCATION THAT WE HAVE BEEN GIVEN, UH, WHICH IS ABOUT 187,000 GALLONS PER DAY. SO DOES HE HAVE A LETTER ABOUT THAT OR, SO JUST THE OTHER DEPUTY COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR, STUART HALL AND I, AND, UH, WE ALSO INCLUDE COUNTY PLANNER, SHANTE RIDLEY IN THAT, IN THOSE, IN THOSE CONVERSATIONS, UH, IS, I WANNA BE CAREFUL WITH HOW MUCH I SAY ABOUT THIS, BUT WE [02:05:01] CAN'T GIVE OUR ENTIRE ALLOCATION TO ONE DEVELOPER, AND YOU GOT A BIGGER ONE DOWN THE ROAD ON FINGER. SO ARE YOU GONNA, AND WHAT WE WOULD NEED, AND, AND WHAT WE ARE, WHAT WE ARE HOPING TO FIGURE OUT REALLY WITHIN THE NEXT COUPLE OF DAYS IS, YOU KNOW, TO, YOU KNOW, HOW MUCH OF THAT ALLOCATION SHOULD WE, UH, UH, SHOULD WE RECOMMEND BE GIVEN? AND HOW SHOULD THAT ALLOCATION BE USED? DO WE, DO WE SUGGEST HOW HE PHASES THIS PROJECT? WHICH KIND OF UNITS IS HE GONNA SERVE FIRST? RIGHT. OR DO WE JUST TURN OVER THE ALLOCATION AND SAY, YOU FIGURE OUT WHAT YOU WANNA SERVE, AND THEN YOU CAN SERVE, AND THEN YOU CAN BUILD UP TO THAT NUMBER. AND THEN AFTER THAT, YOU EITHER HAVE TO FIGURE SOMETHING ELSE OUT, EXPAND THE PLANT, FIND OUT SOMETHING ON, YOU KNOW, FIND OR FIND OUT A, UH, UH, AN ONSITE SOLUTION OR ANOTHER CENTRAL, YOU KNOW, ANOTHER CENTRAL SEWER PLANT SOLUTION. WHICH BY THE WAY, IS PROBABLY, WHICH BY THE WAY, WOULD BE UNLIKELY. THERE IS NOT, THERE'S PROBABLY NOT GONNA BE ANOTHER SEWER PLANT BUILT IN CENTRAL AKAMAK ANYTIME SOON. AND THE EXPANSION OF THE INAN COX SEWER PLANT IS MOST LIKELY NOT GONNA HAPPEN BECAUSE THEY'RE, THE AMOUNT OF, THE AMOUNT OF, UM, TREATED WATER THAT THEY CAN DISCHARGE INTO A C**K CREEK IS ACTUALLY SET AT 750,000 GALLONS PER DAY. HENCE THE, THE CAPACITY OF THE PLANT, THE SEWER PLANT YEAH. SUGGESTION MAYBE IS, UH, AN EXPERT EXPIRATION DATE ON THEM ALLOCATIONS, BECAUSE SOMETIMES THINGS DON'T GET EVER BUILT. SO, AND WATER. SO IF, UM, HE IS KIND OF HUNG UP WITH WATER AND THEY DENY HIM AFTER WE APPROVE HIM, WOULD HE HAVE TO COME BACK FOR A CONDITIONAL USE AMENDMENT AND GO THROUGH THE WHOLE PROCESS AGAIN TO GET A WATER TOWER PUT ON THE PROPERTY? IS THAT A BIG ENOUGH CHANGE TO NEED AN AMENDMENT? OKAY. YES. I WOULD SAY THAT THAT WOULD BE A SIGNIFICANT ENOUGH CHANGE TO SWITCH FROM CENTRAL WATER TO AN ONSITE SOLUTION. OKAY. BECAUSE THEY'RE GONNA NEED, THEY'RE GONNA NEED AREA FOR THE, FOR THE WELL, WHICH WILL MOST LIKELY HAVE SOME SORT OF SETBACK. AND THEN THEY'RE ALSO GONNA NEED, UM, THEY'RE, THEY'RE ALSO GONNA NEED, UH, SPACE AS YOU HAD MENTIONED FOR THE, UH, THAT RESERVOIR, WHETHER THAT'S A, A, A GROUND MOUNTED TANK OR SOMETHING THAT'S ELEVATED. BUT, UM, UH, I WOULD, I WOULD GO AHEAD AND SAY, YES, THAT IS A SIGNIFICANT ENOUGH CHANGE TO WARRANT A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT REVISION IN ANOTHER APPLICATION. OKAY. I KNOW. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? HE'S GOTTA COME BACK TO US IN JUNE FOR COASTAL SQUARE ANYWAY. I THINK IT'S JUNE. IS THAT TWO YEARS? OKAY. WE'LL HAVE TO KEEP AN EYE ON THAT. FISH, THE BATTERY PLANE'S STILL MOVING RIGHT ALONG. WELL, THAT GOT AN EXCEPTION. YEAH, THAT'S A DIFFERENT ISSUE. I KNOW. I'M JUST, ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR STAFF ON THIS ONE? NO. OKAY. I DO HAVE A OFF COMMENT THAT, UM, SO ON THE, SAY THE AG SETBACK LAST MEETING, UH, IT WAS MENTIONED THAT, WELL, IT MAY BE AG, BUT IT'S USED AS RESIDENTIAL AS USE. SO, UH, YOU SAY, DO YOU DO IT AS USE OR DO YOU DO IT AS HOW IT IS, UH, ZONED? WHEN WE PUT THE BATTERY PLANT IN, THEY SAID, UH, THAT THE, UH, TRAILER PARK IS ZONED AG NOT AS A RESIDENTIAL AREA. SO THEY ALLOWED THE BATTERY PLANT, WE MADE THEM KEEP THE SETBACKS, WE MADE 'EM INCREASE 'EM. I THINK THERE WAS NOISE BARRIERS IN THERE AS I RECALL. AND, AND THEN THE OTHER ONE, THE COASTAL SQUARE WAS, I THINK THE AGRICULTURE WAS ACROSS THE STREET OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. RIGHT. BUT IF, IF, IF THE, UM, TRAILER PARK HAD BEEN RESIDENTIAL, WE WOULD NOT PUT INDUSTRIAL LOT BESIDE IT. CORRECT. RIGHT. IT'S USED AS RESIDENTIAL. THERE'S TONS OF PEOPLE IN THERE. SO AS A PLANNING COMMISSION, WE NEED TO DECIDE ARE WE GONNA DO IT BY USE OR DO IT BY, UH, ZONING AND BE CONSISTENT. I I THINK WE SHOULD. THE ZONING? I THINK SO. I MEAN, WE, WE HAVE A DISCUSSION ABOUT THAT. I THINK, I THINK THAT'S A GOOD POINT. BUT YOU'VE GOT SEVERAL INSTANCES WHERE YOU HAVE HIGHER DENSITY IN, UH, IN AG DISTRICTS. UH, AND THAT'S A CONVERSATION I FEEL LIKE FOR ANOTHER DAY. IT IS, BUT I FEEL LIKE THAT THAT IS, UM, UH, THAT, UH, YOU REALLY HAVE TO LOOK AT IT ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS. UM, NOT TALKING ABOUT THE BATTERY STORAGE, UH, FACILITY BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, UH, THAT PLAN [02:10:01] WAS APPROVED WITH REDUCED SETBACKS TO HIS, TO HIS, UH, TO HIS, UM, SMALL AS AROUND 130 FEET. BUT IN THE, IN THE INSTANCE OF THESE RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENTS AND SOME OF THE NOTES THAT WE MAKE DEVELOPERS PUT ONTO THE PLATS THAT ANYONE WHO BUYS A PIECE OF PROPERTY IN A DEVELOPMENT THAT IS WITH, THAT IS WITHIN A, UH, WITH, WITH, IN PROXIMITY OF AN AGRICULTURAL AREA, THAT THEY HAVE TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THEY'RE ESSENTIALLY BUYING INTO A PIECE OF PROPERTY THAT IS CLOSE TO A FARM. AND THOSE, IM, AND, AND THOSE, UH, YOU KNOW, UH, SMELLS THAT COME FROM A FARM, NOISE, DUST, WHATEVER, THAT THEY HAVE TO BE AWARE OF THOSE. BUT SINCE NONE OF THOSE CONDITIONS ARE HERE, THEN THAT'S WHERE HE FEELS JUSTIFIED IN, IN ASKING FOR A REDUCED SETBACK OR AN ELIMINATION OF THE SETBACK. AND THE STAFF SUPPORTED THAT WITH A RECOMMENDATION FOR A REDUCTION TO ZERO FOR COASTAL SQUARE IN RESIDENCES, BECAUSE THERE IS VERY LITTLE FARMING GOING ON OUT THERE, ESPECIALLY IN THE AREA THAT YOU ASKED ABOUT BETWEEN MARKET STREET AND UM, UH, UM, DUNCAN MANOR. SO THERE WAS THAT LITTLE POCKET OF AGRICULTURAL, AGRICULTURALLY ZONED LAND THAT HAS HOUSES ON THEM. YEAH. SO YEAH. AND THE, THE PEOPLE IN THE AGRICULTURAL ZONE THERE, I MEAN, IF THEY WANTED TO PUT HOGS IN THEIR YARD, THEY COULD PUT HOGS IN THEIR YARD. I JUST MEAN THAT WE FLIP FLOP BACK AND FORTH. ONE GUY WANTS US TO I AGREE. I MEAN, WE STAY WITH ZONING. ONE PERSON WANTS US TO LOOK AT THE OTHER SIDE AND SAY WE, THEY'RE USING IT THIS WAY. CONSISTENCY. YEAH. BUT THAT, THAT'S WHY YOU, THAT'S WHY YOU, UH, UH, THAT'S WHY WE TRIED TO PROVIDE YOU WITH A RATIONALE FOR WHY THAT SHOULD BE DONE. OKAY. AND IF THERE IS A, YOU KNOW, IF THERE'S ANOTHER RATIONALE OR IF THERE'S A RATIONALE FOR THE, FOR THE OTHER SIDE OF THE ARGUMENT, THEN THAT NEEDS TO BE FORWARDED TO THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS IN YOUR RECOMMENDATION. BUT FOR, FROM, FROM A STAFF PERSPECTIVE, WE'RE ACTUALLY LOOKING AT THE USE AS OPPOSED TO THE ZONING. OKAY. THAT MAKES IT CLEAR FOR ME. THANK YOU. OKAY. I'LL SAY IT AGAIN. IN A PUBLIC MEETING, IT WILL NEVER GET BILLED. SO , I THINK, UH, ANY OTHER COMMENTS OR WE'D LIKE TO ADJOURN? I, I MAKE A MOTION. WE ADJOURN. MADAM CHAIR. ALL RIGHT. SECOND, WE HAVE A MOTION. SECOND TO ADJOURN. IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE WAS AN INTERESTING MEETING. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.